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axcho
12-30-2007, 07:16 PM
* Please see the official Dejeweled Development Blog (http://dejeweled.blogspot.com/) for the latest updates on the project! *

This thread is where all official information will be posted about the upcoming game Dejeweled.

If you have a helpful comment or question about any of the official information released here, you are welcome to post your response in this thread. However, all other discussion about the game should take place in the other thread (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61233). Do not post random comments here.


About the Game

Dejeweled will be a Flash game available to play on the web for free. It will be a physics-based building game, where you construct elaborate contraptions in order to brutally extract jewels from the bodies of defenseless ragdolls.

The business model for funding the project is as of yet undecided. However, it will be definitely be free to play. Most likely, ads will be embedded into the web page the game sits in, or directly into the loading screen through MochiAds. This revenue may be supplemented with non-exclusive licenses to specific game sites such as Miniclip.


About the Team

The current development team consists of axcho and Exilement.

The idea for the game was first brought forth by Exilement in June of 2007. Now, as the dawn of 2008 approaches, the team begins work in earnest. Designs will be fleshed out, concepts sketched and experimental prototypes coded by axcho. The results of this process will be presented to you here in this thread.

There are currently no estimates as to the completion date of this project. We will see how it evolves.


Pretty pictures below!

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:17 PM
Detailed Design Information

These are written descriptions of what Dejeweled will be like. Topics may include the specifics of the physics engine, what building components will be available and how they work, how points are scored and spent, and what game modes will be available, for example.

Why Dejeweled will be fun - by axcho on June 20, 2007

In terms of the three reward types that make a game fun (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070116/rigby_01.shtml), this game satisfies competence by its level-based progression and unlocking of new building parts. Also, the visceral action of the player's machine emphasizes the feeling of mastery and effectiveness when a ragdoll is successfully killed. It satisfies autonomy in the ability to design whatever sort of contraption you want within your abilities and your in-game resources. Each unlocked building part offers a new opportunity for experimentation. Finally, it satisfies relatedness similarly to Line Rider in the ability to share your unique designs with others. This can either be through YouTube or directly facilitated by the game with a copy'n'paste-able killing machine format.

Dejeweled Engine constraint functions - by axcho on July 20, 2008


Today I dusted off my calculus hat and got to work on the math behind the Dejeweled physics engine (specifically the projection gradient functions for the constraint solver).

If you're curious, the physics engine I'm working on is based on the approach described in Position Based Dynamics (http://www.matthiasmueller.info/publications/posBasedDyn.pdf) (excellent paper), which provides an algorithm for simulating particle physics with any sort of constraint you can imagine. You just need to do a bit of vector calculus first. :)

Here's what I've come up with: (untested, so may contain errors)

Notation Notes!

Uppercase letters are vectors, lowercase letters are scalars
| V | = length of vector V
U . V = dot product of vectors U and V


Rod Constraint (P1, P2, d) - a simple rod of distance d with endpoints P1 and P2

Constraint function C = | P1 - P2 | - d
Gradient function P1C = ( P1 - P2 ) / | P1 - P2 |
Gradient function P2C = ( P2 - P1 ) / | P1 - P2 |


Pin Constraint (P0, P1, P2, f, d) - a connection of distance d between pin P0 and the point Pf at fraction f along the line from point P1 to P2

Intermediate point Pf = (1-f)P1 + (f)P2
Constraint function C = | P0 - Pf | - d
Gradient function P0C = ( P0 - Pf ) / | P0 - Pf |
Gradient function P1C = (f-1)( P0 - Pf ) / | P0 - Pf |
Gradient function P2C = (-f)( P0 - Pf ) / | P0 - Pf |


Wall Constraint (P0, P1, N, d) - a separation of distance d between point P0 and the surface of a wall at point P1 with surface normal N

Constraint function C = ( P0 - Pf ) . N - d
Gradient function P0C = N
Gradient function P1C = -N


Door Constraint (P0, P1, P2, d) - a hinge centered on point P0 between endpoints P1 and P2 at an angle corresponding to dot product d

Constraint function C = ( P0 - P1 ) . ( P0 - P2 ) - d
Gradient function P0C = ( P0 - P1 ) + ( P0 - P2 )
Gradient function P1C = ( P2 - P0 )
Gradient function P2C = ( P1 - P0 )


Those four constraint types should be plenty, at least for now.




this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Engine Concept Art

These are pictures drawn to illustrate how the mechanics of the game and physics might work. In particular, they present possible ideas for building components and how they could be used to make contraptions.

Engine Concept 01 - by axcho on January 26, 2008

"http://www.deviantart.com/download/107912704/Engine_Concept_01_by_axcho.swf" width="480" height="360"
This is a description of the physics engine I intend to use for the first prototype of the building editor. There are three basic types of objects: Rods, Pins, and... other stuff. Don't mind the glowy highlights on everything, I'm just testing out the style.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Color Concept Art

These are pictures drawn to experiment with possible color schemes for the game. Since it's only the colors that really matter in these drawings, don't use them to draw conclusions about the overall graphical style or gameplay. These aren't meant to be screen shots.

Color Concept 01 - by axcho on December 30, 2007

http://www.deviantart.com/download/107911388/Color_Concept_01_by_axcho.png

In this picture you can see experiments with color schemes for structures, blood, and jewels. The black is for the foreground structure and ragdoll, while the gray is for the background structure not involved in collision. There are also two shades of red for the blood sprays, where the bright red might be used for a temporary particle spray and the darker red could be used for persistent stains. Also notice the white highlight on these objects, intended to make the background seem like a glowing white field rather than an empty screen. There is also some experimentation with jewel colors and glow effects. The seven jewels lined up at the bottom are colored to correspond roughly with the seven chakra points of the body.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:19 PM
Interface Concept Art

These are pictures drawn to test out ideas for how the user interface will look. This can include menu design as well as the arrangement and appearance of displays and buttons in any part of the game.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:19 PM
Gameplay Concept Art

These are pictures drawn to illustrate ideas for how the game will play. This can include ideas for game modes, level design, for guiding the player's progression through the game, or anything else really.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:20 PM
Development Screen Shots

These are screen shots taken of game prototypes at any stage in their development. This is not what the final game will look like necessarily, but everything in this section is an actual screen shot of a working program, however incomplete it may be.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Engine Prototypes

These are experimental programs written to test out how the physics engine or contraption editor might work in the final game. They are here so you can try them out and offer your suggestions for how they could be improved, before they're used in the actual game.



this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Gameplay Prototypes

These are experimental programs written to test out issues of gameplay, such as the balance between item costs and money accumulation. They are here so you can try them out and offer your suggestions for how they could be improved, before they're used in the actual game.


this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

axcho
12-30-2007, 07:22 PM
this space reserved for future Dejeweled development information

Dudeman
12-30-2007, 07:47 PM
Dejeweled will be a Flash game available to play on the web for free. It will be a physics-based building game, where you construct elaborate contraptions in order to brutally extract jewels from the bodies of defenseless ragdolls
Haha, oh wow. Sounds fun for some sick reason.

If you need some flashy jewels, I can make some spinning 3d movie clips in swift.

Exile
12-31-2007, 12:00 AM
I'm assuming the number of jewels being extracted is going to amount to a large number at one time.. that might slow it down, no?

And Axcho, regarding the domain name, I'll have to get back to you with that. I know now it's not free but I can probably come up with the money, domain name hosting is pretty cheap. I need to know that what we have is worth starting a website for first, though.

axcho
12-31-2007, 12:12 AM
We probably won't need any spinning jewels yet, but thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.


And Axcho, regarding the domain name, I'll have to get back to you with that. I know now it's not free but I can probably come up with the money, domain name hosting is pretty cheap. I need to know that what we have is worth starting a website for first, though.If it's not free don't worry about it, I'll take care of it.

The highest priority right now would be to get a game prototype up and running. We can talk more about web site stuff once we finish that.

But let's avoid posting too much in this thread. For general discussion we can use the Horribly Violent Ragdoll Killing Game thread (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61233).

Lone Wolf
12-31-2007, 10:28 AM
How will the jewel system work? Will it be, the more damage you do, the better gems you get? Or will it be random?

axcho
01-03-2008, 10:43 PM
How will the jewel system work? Will it be, the more damage you do, the better gems you get? Or will it be random?I'm not completely certain how that will work, but here's what I'm thinking:

There will be seven jewel types, each a different color. The jewels would correspond to the seven chakra points (http://www.hehishelo.co.uk/chakra.htm), more or less evenly spaced along the core of the body. Piercing, splitting, crushing, or otherwise breaking the ragdoll open at a chakra point would cause the appropriate jewel to fall out. For example, slicing its neck in half would release the blue "throat chakra" jewel.

I don't know how the jewels would get translated to money - maybe different colors are worth different amounts, or maybe different building components would require different amounts of certain colors. Though if the jewels themselves are separate resources there would have to be a way to cash them in and buy them, at a higher price maybe.

I should probably make a concept drawing to illustrate this.

Teh_One
01-06-2008, 02:30 PM
this does sound quite fun...

Scarecrow
01-06-2008, 03:18 PM
Oh, if you're going by chakras, you should know that breaking the small bone that points downwards in between the ribs at the chakra point there causes death after the victim takes fifteen steps.

So like, crushing blows here should be somewhat of a KO.


Anyway, like I said in the other thread, if you need beta testers, just pm me.

:]

acerocks
01-26-2008, 01:42 PM
do u know when it will be done

axcho
01-26-2008, 02:52 PM
do u know when it will be doneI really have no idea, sorry.

There are currently no estimates as to the completion date of this project. We will see how it evolves.

But, I've just released some new stuff for you all to check out! I've put together a little presentation in Flash of what the engine will be like for the first prototype. It's on the first page, in the Engine Concept Art section (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1125479&postcount=3).

Please, let me know what you think. :D

Scarecrow
01-31-2008, 06:31 AM
Oh yeah, and my offer for beta testing and music making still stands.

Also, bump.

axcho
02-02-2008, 04:02 PM
Your still standing offer is appreciated, thanks. :)

To reply to your earlier comment about crushing blows, yes, I'd imagine they'd do a lot of damage. Considering that the ragdolls, being ragdolls, are not exactly alive, there's no real concept of a KO. But maybe they'd start off holding their pose stiffly, and then go limp once they get really damaged. That could work.

Scarecrow
02-23-2008, 06:47 AM
I'm not sure if I'm just making things complicated, but how about giving the ragdoll bones, which can be broken?

axcho
02-23-2008, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure if I'm just making things complicated, but how about giving the ragdoll bones, which can be broken?Well, there wouldn't be any internal organs - the ragdolls would just be solid matter, but I'm hoping we can allow for them to break wherever you hit them instead of just at the joints. That will be decided pretty far in the future though. :)

Big Bang
02-24-2008, 07:48 AM
Goddamn, you are hella more organized than I am.

The constraint system you are using sounds really interesting. Are you running on the Fisix engine?

And the ragdolls gotta have some sort of animation, right? If so, mind to share how you did it? I've been trying to implement a procedural animation system for months and I haven't got a damn clue of how to make it work.

Meh, maybe I should stop being a lazy asshole and start working on the engine I promised to do like a year ago. If I ever get a physics engine working, that or the Fisix Engine, which has to be the most undocumented API to date.

Also, Dejeweled is the best name ever.

axcho
02-25-2008, 06:48 PM
Goddamn, you are hella more organized than I am.

The constraint system you are using sounds really interesting. Are you running on the Fisix engine?

And the ragdolls gotta have some sort of animation, right? If so, mind to share how you did it? I've been trying to implement a procedural animation system for months and I haven't got a damn clue of how to make it work.

Meh, maybe I should stop being a lazy asshole and start working on the engine I promised to do like a year ago. If I ever get a physics engine working, that or the Fisix Engine, which has to be the most undocumented API to date.

Also, Dejeweled is the best name ever.Thanks, glad you like the name Dejeweled. :)

I'm a little confused about the work you're referring to - I haven't done any real code for this project yet, it's all just hypothetical. But I hope to substantiate your praise sometime in the near future. :p

The constraint system I'm planning on using is the one described in the paper Position Based Dynamics (http://www.matthiasmueller.info/publications/posBasedDyn.pdf). I've implemented a simple 3D version of it in C++ but I have yet to try translating it to Flash. The part I still have to figure out is how to do distance constraints between a node and an arbitrary point between two other nodes (for the Pin). I don't think it should be too hard to figure out the right equations, but I haven't had the time to sit down and work through it.

I don't think there will be much procedural animation in Dejeweled - just a bit of random twitching, maybe. But I'm definitely interested in the subject, and recently I've been playing around with something that might have relevance. Send me a PM if you want to talk more about it. :)

Sacred
03-02-2008, 11:11 PM
Well, there wouldn't be any internal organs - the ragdolls would just be solid matter, but I'm hoping we can allow for them to break wherever you hit them instead of just at the joints. That will be decided pretty far in the future though. :)

so does that mean at all that, if you actually (for example)rip an arm off, then the arm bones could possibly show?
and if you slice the throat, blood will squirt out, bend a bone backwards, it will make a cracking noise, cut the stomach open, organs fall out?
I'm just wondering because first of all, the human(adult) body has about 206 bones, not to mention all the organs systems in your body along with bile, stomach acids, urine(lolz jk), and more.
I'm studying body science in school right now, so I'm just wondering that, if you in fact add all the organs, you may need to go into a lot of detail and ask people for help...

LN3uq
03-02-2008, 11:20 PM
He just said there WOULDN'T be, sacred.

And this sounds amazing, axcho, I can't wait to see how it turns out

Sacred
03-02-2008, 11:23 PM
He just said there WOULDN'T be, sacred.

srry, its just that are so many words that hurting my head that i can think straight...

axcho
03-04-2008, 01:16 PM
LN3uq is right - there will not be any internal organs.

But Chinaman and sacred, please be aware that this is a thread for official discussion only.

Save your commentary for the other thread (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61233). Keep the DDT clean. I've reported the previous two posts, so if they get deleted, that's why. No hard feelings, just keep that in mind for the future.

the afro ninja
04-21-2008, 06:34 PM
ehh, i hope im not violating your terms cuz i dont exactly understand this but:

seriously, this is ****ing EPIC. i dearly hope this will become finished unlike so many other great ideas and big projects. the concept is flawless.

have you thought about maybe different game types yet?
of course I DON'T want to overwhelm you but may i suggest different game modes such as

Story - Not really a story but the main game type

Challenge - Set Goal, Set Rod +Pins, Set Time, etc.

Sandbox - Freestyle, like what you would create to share

im justing throwing shit out there

i'm interested in any kind of help with production of the game as i can provide, plz pm me.

once again, great ****ing ideas

axcho
04-23-2008, 01:37 AM
ehh, i hope im not violating your terms cuz i dont exactly understand this but:

seriously, this is ****ing EPIC. i dearly hope this will become finished unlike so many other great ideas and big projects. the concept is flawless.

have you thought about maybe different game types yet?
of course I DON'T want to overwhelm you but may i suggest different game modes such as

Story - Not really a story but the main game type

Challenge - Set Goal, Set Rod +Pins, Set Time, etc.

Sandbox - Freestyle, like what you would create to share

im justing throwing shit out there

i'm interested in any kind of help with production of the game as i can provide, plz pm me.

once again, great ****ing ideasGlad you like the idea. We have thought about game modes a bit - a lot of what you suggested has been posted already in the other thread (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61233).

What skills do you offer in relation to game development?

Scarecrow
04-23-2008, 02:18 AM
*whispers to axcho*

"none whatsoever"

the afro ninja
04-23-2008, 07:03 PM
To tell you the truth Jawz is pretty much right. >:C

I'm taking related classes now, but besides a bit of actionscript, I really can't offer any technical help. >>:C
I would just like to possibly help out with ideas, concepts, and testing complex theories for the game.

In a nutshell, I just want to help out by testing it through. :)

axcho
04-24-2008, 12:05 AM
To tell you the truth Jawz is pretty much right. >:C

I'm taking related classes now, but besides a bit of actionscript, I really can't offer any technical help. >>:C
I would just like to possibly help out with ideas, concepts, and testing complex theories for the game.

In a nutshell, I just want to help out by testing it through. :)All right. Well, I'll let you know if I think of anything for you to do. :)

Raffi
04-27-2008, 06:52 AM
Can the Jewels act like money? Then you use the money to buy stuff.

Exile
04-27-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm taking related classes now, but besides a bit of actionscript, I really can't offer any technical help. >>:C
I would just like to possibly help out with ideas, concepts, and testing complex theories for the game.

If you want to help with ideas and concepts just post them here. Most of the basic ideas me and Axcho covered already, so posting basic stuff like "story mode" isn't anything we haven't thought of already.

If you have an original suggestion that you think me and Axcho haven't thought of, go ahead and post them.

axcho
04-27-2008, 01:18 PM
If you want to help with ideas and concepts just post them here.I agree, except don't post them here, post them here (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61233). Thanks.

im better den u
06-25-2008, 08:33 AM
i like the general idea of the game (i luvs my ragdoll death gamez) but maybe you could put i dont know how to say this but a thing where you could make your own levels and then somehow make it so other people can play it and vice versa

Scarecrow
06-25-2008, 08:37 AM
If you were 'better den' me, you would have spelled "I'm better then you" correctly, and used decent grammar.

>:U

Dinomut
06-25-2008, 12:32 PM
If you were 'better den' me, you would have spelled "I'm better then you" correctly, and used decent grammar.

>:U

if you were "better then" me, you would have spelled "I'm better than you" correctly, and used decent grammar.

Exile
06-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Okay guys, quit spamming.

axcho
06-25-2008, 10:07 PM
i like the general idea of the game (i luvs my ragdoll death gamez) but maybe you could put i dont know how to say this but a thing where you could make your own levels and then somehow make it so other people can play it and vice versaSharing your creations (and perhaps challenges) is definitely part of the plan. It will probably be through some sort of copy-and-paste thing, like in Punk-o-matic for example. Thanks for stopping by. :)

And quit the spamming, other people! :(

im better den u
06-27-2008, 08:18 AM
yeah thats kinda what i meant oops sorry for the spamming

Scarecrow
06-27-2008, 08:30 AM
if you were "better then" me, you would have spelled "I'm better than you" correctly, and used decent grammar.

Touche.


However I wasn't talking to you.

>:U





Sorry, Axcho. I'll not post anything else irrelevant from now on.

axcho
07-20-2008, 08:10 PM
I've never felt so intimate with a vector dot product (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_product) before...

New stuff on the first page (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1125477)!


Today I dusted off my calculus hat and got to work on the math behind the Dejeweled physics engine (specifically the projection gradient functions for the constraint solver).

If you're curious, the physics engine I'm working on is based on the approach described in Position Based Dynamics (excellent paper), which provides an algorithm for simulating particle physics with any sort of constraint you can imagine. You just need to do a bit of vector calculus first. :)

Here's what I've come up with: (untested, so may contain errors)

Read the whole thing here. (http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1125477&postcount=2)

Comments and questions welcome.

Exile
07-21-2008, 11:14 AM
Nice to see things are starting to progress, even if I understand very little of what you outlined.

axcho
08-26-2008, 05:22 PM
This is mostly for Exilement, but I thought I'd share an article I came across on Lost Garden, about A Game Business Model: Learning from Touring Bands (http://lostgarden.com/2005/10/game-business-model-learning-from.html), that might apply to Dejeweled. It talks about providing a service to a smaller audience rather than a packaged product to a mass audience.

Given the way Dejeweled has attracted passionate interest from a fair number of people who are willing to work closely with the creators, this seems like a better way of guiding the project than simply cranking out a game and throwing it out there with some ads around it. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Thoughts?

Steyene
08-27-2008, 04:22 PM
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING

Don't read the front page at 11pm.

Anyway now the silly stuff is out of the way, that looks awesome, and what is better, I can sort of work out what you are going on about >_>


Offtopic: What level of Maths have you completeted?

axcho
08-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Anyway now the silly stuff is out of the way, that looks awesome, and what is better, I can sort of work out what you are going on about >_>


Offtopic: What level of Maths have you completeted?Thanks.

I've done calculus, and a bit of linear algebra. And I don't think I'll have to take any more math classes, ever. ;)

Krytical
08-28-2008, 03:13 PM
Very interested on the math portion, what exactly are you using the dot product for?

axcho
08-30-2008, 05:10 PM
Very interested on the math portion, what exactly are you using the dot product for?For the wall constraint, the dot product basically gives me the distance that the collided node would have to move away from the wall.

For the door constraint, I haven't tested this but it should give me something like the angle between two vectors - technically it's the cosine of the angle, multiplied by the length of the two vectors, but I'm hoping that won't matter too much...

Does that answer help you at all?

Krytical
08-31-2008, 12:58 AM
For the wall constraint, the dot product basically gives me the distance that the collided node would have to move away from the wall.

How are you incorporating matrices?

axcho
09-01-2008, 12:44 AM
How are you incorporating matrices?No matrix math really, it's just that the positions and velocities and such are 2D vectors. Is that what you mean?

Krytical
09-01-2008, 11:52 AM
Ah understood, thanks.

axcho
12-30-2008, 06:52 PM
Just a quick note - I've moved the Dejeweled image and swf hosting to my deviantART scraps (http://axcho.deviantart.com/gallery/#_browse/scraps). The concept art should be back up on the front page.

axcho
01-23-2009, 01:38 PM
Okay. I'm moving this stuff over to an actual blog, the Dejeweled Development Blog (http://dejeweled.blogspot.com/). I'll probably be discontinuing use of this thread.