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ashton777
04-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Theres no point in making a negative comment about it though.. If you don't like what you read pleae move along; it probably isn't for you :]



I didn't know where else to post this; but to the people who want to learn about life and learn about true secrets..?

http://innerpathgate.blogspot.com/

It's my blog about life, not for advertisment or anything, just an "off topic" literature... (I didnt feel like posting all of it onto here)

But if your reading this and question it then you might have been ment to come to this... Or you can be another person and ignore something thats shown right infront of you...

If you read please comment on your thoughts, theres probably one of you that think im crazy... but hey, thats alright, you can think what you think ;)

New Generation
04-02-2009, 06:09 AM
The main thing is to not lose once in a life time chances. Always be positive and take situations responsibly. What you imagine, think an feel while you imagine will come to you, but you must work hard and RIGHT.

ashton777
04-02-2009, 04:32 PM
No see thats the way I used to think about it... But how do u know what you really want in life? Thats why I try to say to connect to your heart and soul; live in the present, you dont need to think or feel, once time comes you will know whats right and wrong.. Understand?

New Generation
04-02-2009, 04:37 PM
Imaging is the mist powerful sense on the planet. It gives you emotions, feelings and maybe even imaginative tastes of something. If you think of money for example, you have it in your hands. You feel the paper, you see it in your mind. The universe answers that call, everything is answered by the universe you just got to take time. But the main thing is to let go, imagine it and let go, forget about it and then it will come to you, soon. Though you must still work hard and and especially right. It's true that will is important(heart and soul) so you have the will to work on, imagine.


See: http://www.themastersofthesecret.com/Behind-The-Secret.php?gclid=CKyNt4aj05kCFc-T3wodvldzvA

Überschall
04-02-2009, 05:24 PM
I have been traveling what is called a "inner path way." It's the secret to life, and to all that is; even to god. If you are reading this, then it is ment for a purpose, a purpose for you to learn and inturpret [sic] my messages into your own life.

Now alright, I have not yet read where you're going with this, but dude, this is annoying. You're taking yourself way too serious, it sounds like a parody of Jehova's Witnesses.

OGrilla
04-02-2009, 05:28 PM
*facpam* .

Garuda
04-02-2009, 06:45 PM
What would Ash think of this boy.

alive
04-02-2009, 07:12 PM
You're 16 and you got life's deepest secrets figured out? shit.

ashton777
04-02-2009, 07:22 PM
New Generation,

I already know all this and have experienced to the fullest. I am not saying your wrong one bit, your perfectlyy right. You can connect to the Universes soul and to all it has created; you can manifest all things that you want, just by that feeling of thought, yes your right...

But the thing is, how do you know its what you really do want?
You grow up and everything around you teaches you how to be you... It munipulates your true self. I'm saying, after you follow and connect to your own soul (which is you, god; and everythings part of god) you learn what you truely want, and when you want it with a lot of pure intention/passion you achieve it in ways and forms that you couldn't imagine! Thats when you, are connected to god, soul, and all that is! It's a life journey!

ScHaLL, and to the others:

Do you understand what energy is? God IS energy, and we are made of of that energy so yes, we are god... You would think of it as "part of god..." Thats because of the way your mind works... Every one of you grew up, and learned from those around you; or from what youve seen. Thats why you are what you are now. And its okay; im not saying that it's a bad thing...

Everyone can think im a fool, that im nothing, a kid... I know I'm still a human, I'm not saying im not, im just saying I have connected with my inner god... If you don't believe me thats fine :)

All I am doing is trying to help others that would want to learn about there TRUE self... If that's really a big deal to you guys im sorry.

Theres no point in making a negative comment about it though.. If you don't like what you read pleae move along; it probably isn't for you :]

Überschall
04-02-2009, 07:34 PM
You didn't react to what I said the least, you confirmed what I pointed out if anything.

ashton777
04-02-2009, 07:51 PM
? What would you like me to say... Awe, im so mad cause you said I "sound like a parody of Jehova's Witnesses."

If thats what you wanna hear then there; what else do you expect of me. Im really not here to hear people try to "make fun of me." Oh and if your annoyed please don't come back, there would be no reason for you to be reading this if you were truly annoyed ;)

Überschall
04-02-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm not even making fun of you, but it's just so easy. What I'm saying is that the way you write this whole thing is just so... over the top. You're talking about this like it's the universal truth, and whatever may happen or whatever anyone else thinks is right, this is just true and if you don't believe me then burn in hell. It's like... Dude, we know you're serious about this but... dude. It gives me this schizoid image of "this is my own way and it's the right way and it's my own world and it's the best world".

ashton777
04-02-2009, 08:29 PM
No im not trying to put myself out like that at all... All im trying to do is to show people what I believe in; There is no problems with other religons at all, if I inturpreted myself in that way to you I am sorry. I just don't belive in those faiths andymore; and if youd like to know this is the reason why...

I just think, calling out to a god.. that no where anyone knows and praying to somethign that's just out there, is a little wierd to me as this is for you.
It does say in the bible though; "The kingdom of God is within you." I mean; that shows a little sign... Even jesus is, "the sun of christ. As we all are! It is not him that is jsut special; and that hes the only son of god, everyone can be this way, if you find out how... But thats just the way I think of it... ANy opinion you have I'd like to hear..

1 more thing, just re-look at the first post... If you were somone writing about what you believed in and another said that to you... I don't think you would appreciate it...

Beta
04-02-2009, 08:30 PM
So, I'm supposed to fold my hands, bow my head, and say in my head "I am yours, God" to the astronaut in the sky and hope it works, right?

ashton777
04-02-2009, 08:32 PM
So, I'm supposed to fold my hands, bow my head, and say in my head "I am yours, God" to the astronaut in the sky and hope it works, right?

I hope you werent reffering to me haha;

Nodd
04-03-2009, 01:05 AM
you should take care of the abundance of spelling errors on your blog. it takes away from your credibility.

OGrilla
04-03-2009, 01:17 AM
Credib... hahahahahhahhah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA

Oh, lol. Dude, this is great stuff. I'm sorry if I offend you, but Christ, meditate on the subject and then come back to us in the real world. I assume you meditate, right? If not, please explain the method to your enlightenment.

ashton777
04-03-2009, 02:59 PM
Yah it started with meditation of course; then I went through what everyone probably does after; the law of attraction, or some way to "create" in the future. But are you.. laughing at me?

And not one of you who try to offend me and make fun of me say anything, all you do is say; christ meditate on the subject.. or, Omg you sound like... You guys are being... ridiculous, you automatically look at it and laugh?

Imagine this (to any who do know about the law of attraction) If you went up to a lot of "normal" people (people who have never herd of it before) and tried to convince them that you could manipulate the future/now; with thoughts. They would laugh at you cause your telling them somethign they couldn't have thought about before... Since they grew up by what people around them toguht.

If you guys have any true respect or... "dignity" please don't respond enless you have to actually say something either meaningful, or have a seriouse question. Theres no point to joke around?

Yah I do have a lot of spelling erros I need to fix up a lot and I'm being lazy... What motivation should I have anyway to people who make fun of somone cause of what they belive in...


I don't want anymore fights, no more laughs; please just respond with something thats important, and if there isnt anythign important then please don't respond.. please!

OGrilla
04-03-2009, 03:44 PM
Your "Law of Attraction" is bogus. It's manifestation with a different name. You can't "tap into the Universe's energy" or whatever you believe in order to get your lover or your rent money or whatever stupid things you come up with to ask for. It doesn't work.

I respect your belief insofar as it can be helpful to want things and to "know" your dreams will come true. If you go through life with the idea that you will get what you want, you will get things that area approximately what you want more often than other people, simply because you know what you're looking for in life. But to tout your own "enlightenment" at 16 as if you have some truth is stupid. You've bastardized and watered down some new age teachings and done a piss-poor job at presenting it to those of us who are the slightest bit receptive to the idea.

Yes, I'm laughing at you because you're so naive. I practice mediation and trance induction myself and I achieve a great deal of relaxation. I've done all sorts of hallucinogens to experience artificially enhanced versions of those techniques and it works wonders, but I don't claim to find any truth or magic method of getting what I want in life. Live an ascetic life for a few years and fast a few times before you try to tell anyone else about the secret of the universe.

OGrilla
04-03-2009, 03:46 PM
How the hell did that happen?

ashton777
04-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Your "Law of Attraction" is bogus. It's manifestation with a different name. You can't "tap into the Universe's energy" or whatever you believe in order to get your lover or your rent money or whatever stupid things you come up with to ask for. It doesn't work.




Dude, your obviously not reading what I have been saying! I said that stuff works, cause it does, but its not right!! It is not what your supposed to do to find true love and desires... Your supposed to connect with your own soul is what I am saying!

And to be so "naive" that a 16 year old could learn so much, that is whats pituful about this... It just matters how much time you spend, and to ALL: I am not saying I have followed my true path, gotten all I wanted, I have just found out what I know now, and my heart told me to do this, maybe its to "show" 1 person, somone who might need it; or if its to show that everyone who thinks different jsut laughs at a "newer" belief; or one they have never herd before ;)

OGrilla
04-03-2009, 04:05 PM
I'm sure I've heard of your belief before, but from someone with more knowledge on the subject and with more developed diction and I still don't care for it. I'm not laughing at your belief, I'm laughing at you. You're the only one who thinks it's "pituful" that a 16 year old could learn "so much". I don't think you've learned much at all, from what I can tell. You're just spouting vague approximations of a belief system you obviously know little about. I don't believe in a soul, but if I did, I don't think I could argue with you on that first point, which makes me beg the question: What on Earth are you talking about?

You're all over the board with your defenses and you still haven't clearly explained what your belief is. You connect with your soul for what? How do I do that? What meditation technique do I use and how do I perform manifestation?

You're leaving so many open questions and instead of properly addressing them, you throw out bullshit phrases that make no sense alone. Your heart told you to do this? Is your heart God? How do you think you're going to be able to help anyone if you can't even get people to understand what you're going on about?

I just want to help you out and I know exactly where you are and what your beliefs are, so don't pull that bullshit card out about me laughing at you because I don't understand. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt, burnt it, and then moved on.

ashton777
04-03-2009, 04:12 PM
Yah but I posted my blog... Did you actually read it..? I was creating a website on it for "better looking purposes" and I edited a lot of what I said/mispells... And I'll edit my blog so it makes more sense this weekend, Ill jsut copy it from my qebsite since that was re-edited from original blog.

But listen to me, I didn't copy this belife, thats what I am saying! I have found it out through my self! And it's not a "belief" either.. All I am saying to sum this up, is that if you connect to your heart (its desigers) and be present in time. (Always! on a state of meditation, meditation brings awarness to whats going around in the present of time. I'm sayign just try to always not think of your future or past events, focus oin present and connect to your heart... And all will be shown to you. By yourself, thats whats great about it!) Does that make any sense?


----
one more thing; just look at the replies from people, so many to deal with... I dont know how you couldn't get defensless... It's so hard... And im sorry for if I do make myself look mean, or bad..
WHat would you honestly think if you posted your belief, and saw Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha, I mean common... Show a little respect for I am human to.

OGrilla
04-03-2009, 04:22 PM
I would argue with them until I grew tired of it, or not argue at all if I didn't deem them worthy. You can't expect people to be reticent if they don't agree with you, especially when you try so hard to spread your new-found knowledge and I certainly don't expect you to sit idly by as I criticize you.

But you're handling this all much better than I thought you would, so I give you props on at least holding a vestige of pacifism through your technique. I'm not going to argue with you anymore because I think you're too confused and honestly not ready to present yourself to other people in this light. Try to compose your ideas better and understand exactly what you're talking about first. This forum isn't as receptive as you'd like it to be, obviously, so you have to find another place to share this with, or try harder. I hope you do the latter.

Best of luck to you.

ashton777
04-04-2009, 11:44 AM
Thank you, I really do appreciate it...

And it's not really "new found" knowlage... Its just that I found it, but it's... Just hard to explain, but its been there forever and a lot of others have used it...

But I thank you for being a little more respectful; and luck to you aswell.

Automaton
04-04-2009, 05:00 PM
Theres no point in making a negative comment about it though.. If you don't like what you read pleae move along; it probably isn't for you :]



I didn't know where else to post this; but to the people who want to learn about life and learn about true secrets..?

http://innerpathgate.blogspot.com/

It's my blog about life, not for advertisment or anything, just an "off topic" literature... (I didnt feel like posting all of it onto here)

But if your reading this and question it then you might have been ment to come to this... Or you can be another person and ignore something thats shown right infront of you...

If you read please comment on your thoughts, theres probably one of you that think im crazy... but hey, thats alright, you can think what you think ;)

OK, I'm not reading all of that, due to the utter amount of bad grammar, sentence structure and most of all, spelling. Have you ever thought that life is meaningless? What is the point to it all? It seems to me like your whole spiritual speech is telling you to make the most of your life, be happy and do things naturally as they come to you. Generally I would have thought it was common sense to try to make the most of life, be happy and judge things as and when they happen. I don't think you realise that you're affecting nobody with all this stereotypical spiritualism.
"It's the secret to life, and to all that is; even to god."
Oh please, that's the corniest thing I've ever heard. For one you're only 16, it's arrogant to assume you can "shine the light" on people and make them a better person, even though they probably have twice as much life experience as you. Second, what is this "inner path way"? There is no such thing. I get the feeling you've just heard that somewhere on a film where someone says "You've got to search for yourself, your soul will guide you!". Thirdly, what if there is no secret to life? Seems to me like what you're stating is the secret to life is actually pretty much common sense. And what if there is no God? What if there is no point to anything? Your whole theory of existance and the secret of life is nothing more than "forget everything else except for the present, what your soul tells you and
BELIEVE!". The first of which is just stupid, the second is irrelevent as there is no scientific proof of a soul, and the third is what all of this is based upon. Before people read that you've assumed people will believe in the things you assume they do, and I can tell you now, a lot of people won't.

Anyway, all of this is besides the point: It looks to me like you've read a "how to feel happy" book by some hippie author, summarised it, wrote it badly and expected people to stand in awe at your awesome knowledge of no more than life itself!

[edit]
And I'm not making fun of you here, I'm trying to have a rational debate. Please reply back to each of my points, and don't get offended as I respect your views, though I don't think you've put them across very well.

ashton777
04-04-2009, 09:06 PM
OK, I'm not reading all of that, due to the utter amount of bad grammar, sentence structure and most of all, spelling.

Sorry; I will edit it sometime this weekend, ive been kinda busy.

Have you ever thought that life is meaningless? 1. Of course I have.. What is the point to it all? There is no point; or one I have found. I'm just saying if you follow your heart and let things come to you then you will find out more about yourself.. It seems to me like your whole spiritual speech is telling you to make the most of your life, be happy and do things naturally as they come to you. 2. In a way yes; let things come to you. Cause thats the true way to live, and you will just... Learn threw out time. Generally I would have thought it was common sense to try to make the most of life, be happy and judge things as and when they happen. 3. Good. :D I don't think you realise that you're affecting nobody with all this stereotypical spiritualism. I'm not really trying to, I wanted to know what people thought about what I found out... And it has helped alot ;)
"It's the secret to life, and to all that is; even to god."

4. Yah but its in simple terms. As in, god is energy and the secret to "life" as in finding out who you truly are by following your inner guidence... Cause what most people are; I am not saying everyone... Most people, they... Grow up though life and judge things on ecperience... They jusdge things by how "society" treated them. It's all about where you grew up, if you were rich, how much money you had, if you lived in the ghetto; whatever it is there minds are (usually) based off of whats around them... Do you understand that at least? And I am saying just follow your heart and you will find who you really are, which people have found out but havn't really "explored" it more. please, that's the corniest thing I've ever heard. Sorry ;) For one you're only 16, it's arrogant to assume you can "shine the light" on people and make them a better person, even though they probably have twice as much life experience as you. 5.You' are right, they do have more expeience in me... But you're thinking it as how long they lived... I'm basing my experience on "inner findings." As in energy, and meditation, all that is "the inner path way."Second, what is this "inner path way"? There is no such thing. (explained on other line) I get the feeling you've just heard that somewhere on a film where someone says "You've got to search for yourself, your soul will guide you!". No i found it myself, through "inner" experience.Thirdly, what if there is no secret to life? There isn't really, its jsut knowing what life actually is... Not what humans are, and if you don't wanna learn then you don't have to. This all probably looks crazy to you... I can understand that. Seems to me like what you're stating is the secret to life is actually pretty much common sense. It is, but people don't actually use it... The more you use "common sense" the more you will learn. If your thinking of common sense as I am.And what if there is no God? I wouldn't call it god. I just call it god cause that would be how you would understand it as... What I am really talking about is energy, what everything is made up of... And that's what were made up of. What is god, everything! What if there is no point to anything? Your whole theory of existance and the secret of life is nothing more than "forget everything else except for the present, what your soul tells you and BELIEVE!". Yah cause try it, really; it's a constant meditation. Try to always live in the now is, don't think about the past or future, try it... How long can you do that for? It's kinda hard. The first of which is just stupid, the second is irrelevent as there is no scientific proof of a soul, and the third is what all of this is based upon. Before people read that you've assumed people will believe in the things you assume they do, and I can tell you now, a lot of people won't. Yah thats understandable...



Anyway, all of this is besides the point: It looks to me like you've read a "how to feel happy" book by some hippie author, summarised it, wrote it badly and expected people to stand in awe at your awesome knowledge of no more than life itself! Not in all, just trying to help out, and again, I found it through myself.


[edit]

And I'm not making fun of you here, I'm trying to have a rational debate. I see, you did nothign wrong. Please reply back to each of my points, and don't get offended as I respect your views, though I don't think you've put them across very well. True, I probably havn't. I am not to good at "expressign myself" cause I havn't had practice with it... Again I am a regular human, it's not like I am going to have some power of perfection typing... Sorry for that I wish I could ;) But again, I'll edit it soon... Sorry.


(Sorry, I had to edit it a lot, things were messing up)

Automaton
04-05-2009, 04:45 AM
OK, I'm not reading all of that, due to the utter amount of bad grammar, sentence structure and most of all, spelling.

Sorry; I will edit it sometime this weekend, ive been kinda busy.

Have you ever thought that life is meaningless? 1. Of course I have.. What is the point to it all? There is no point; or one I have found. I'm just saying if you follow your heart and let things come to you then you will find out more about yourself..
But then it seems you learn that through natural processes anyway. You "learn about yourself" every day, and don't really need all of this to achieve self-awareness and self-acceptance. Besides which, I don't believe there is anything to "find out" apart from your personality and beliefs. We are just machines, nothing more, nothing less.

It seems to me like your whole spiritual speech is telling you to make the most of your life, be happy and do things naturally as they come to you. 2. In a way yes; let things come to you. Cause thats the true way to live, and you will just... Learn threw out time.
Let me ask you a question, what if you knew that in time the world was going to end due to global warming some time in the future, and you could do something on a specific date in the future that would stop it. By your logic do you just forget about it and hope someone else will do it?

Generally I would have thought it was common sense to try to make the most of life, be happy and judge things as and when they happen. 3. Good. :D I don't think you realise that you're affecting nobody with all this stereotypical spiritualism. I'm not really trying to, I wanted to know what people thought about what I found out... And it has helped alot ;)
OK, I get that...

"It's the secret to life, and to all that is; even to god."

4. Yah but its in simple terms. As in, god is energy and the secret to "life" as in finding out who you truly are by following your inner guidence... Cause what most people are; I am not saying everyone... Most people, they... Grow up though life and judge things on ecperience... They jusdge things by how "society" treated them. It's all about where you grew up, if you were rich, how much money you had, if you lived in the ghetto; whatever it is there minds are (usually) based off of whats around them... Do you understand that at least? And I am saying just follow your heart and you will find who you really are, which people have found out but havn't really "explored" it more.
OK, this I understand, but I don't really believe in any of this energy shizz and inner-self. I personally have tried to find this "inner self" and failed, came to admittance there probably isn't one, and confirmed that when I find no scientific evidence of any of it. From a psychological standpoint, when people read those spiritualistic, "find yourself" books, they want it so much to be true, they create it themselves and claim they feel happier due to self awareness, happiness and knowing themselves.

please, that's the corniest thing I've ever heard. Sorry ;) For one you're only 16, it's arrogant to assume you can "shine the light" on people and make them a better person, even though they probably have twice as much life experience as you. 5.You' are right, they do have more expeience in me... But you're thinking it as how long they lived... I'm basing my experience on "inner findings." As in energy, and meditation, all that is "the inner path way."
OK, I can understand that, but I still assume most people older than you have been on a similar trip in awareness and knowledge and came out unscathed, a disbeliever. So they too might have tried this and nothing has happened.

Second, what is this "inner path way"? There is no such thing. (explained on other line)
Well personally, I don't believe in such a thing, but have tried to many times in the past.

I get the feeling you've just heard that somewhere on a film where someone says "You've got to search for yourself, your soul will guide you!". No i found it myself, through "inner" experience.Thirdly, what if there is no secret to life? There isn't really, its jsut knowing what life actually is... Not what humans are, and if you don't wanna learn then you don't have to. This all probably looks crazy to you... I can understand that.
Yes that does sound a little off the wall to me. Personally, I see everything as this; unimportant. We are but a tiny speck on a tiny speck on a tiny speck of space. Our lives are of no importance other than to enjoy ourselves, and if that is all your blog teaches, I could have figured so much out myself.

Seems to me like what you're stating is the secret to life is actually pretty much common sense. It is, but people don't actually use it... The more you use "common sense" the more you will learn. If your thinking of common sense as I am.And what if there is no God? I wouldn't call it god. I just call it god cause that would be how you would understand it as... What I am really talking about is energy, what everything is made up of... And that's what were made up of. What is god, everything!
I see, I knew you were talking about a different God (it sounds a little like Spinoza's God).

What if there is no point to anything? Your whole theory of existance and the secret of life is nothing more than "forget everything else except for the present, what your soul tells you and BELIEVE!". Yah cause try it, really; it's a constant meditation. Try to always live in the now is, don't think about the past or future, try it... How long can you do that for? It's kinda hard.
If it's hard, doesn't that defeat the point in it - to be happy? If it is just to be happy, why not just tell people something like "Do whatever you want to make you happy", and not go into all this past and future bullshit?

The first of which is just stupid, the second is irrelevent as there is no scientific proof of a soul, and the third is what all of this is based upon. Before people read that you've assumed people will believe in the things you assume they do, and I can tell you now, a lot of people won't. Yah thats understandable...



Anyway, all of this is besides the point: It looks to me like you've read a "how to feel happy" book by some hippie author, summarised it, wrote it badly and expected people to stand in awe at your awesome knowledge of no more than life itself! Not in all, just trying to help out, and again, I found it through myself.


[edit]

And I'm not making fun of you here, I'm trying to have a rational debate. I see, you did nothign wrong. Please reply back to each of my points, and don't get offended as I respect your views, though I don't think you've put them across very well. True, I probably havn't. I am not to good at "expressign myself" cause I havn't had practice with it... Again I am a regular human, it's not like I am going to have some power of perfection typing... Sorry for that I wish I could ;) But again, I'll edit it soon... Sorry.




Well on a second read, the actual writing isn't too bad, it's just the spelling and occasional grammar problem. All in all, good, but not believable for me, sorry.

Ash
04-05-2009, 06:03 AM
Ashton, I'm with OGrilla on this. You are making these vague and easy approximations about "connecting with your soul" and "god being a part of everyone", and it's in no way some great secret or anything, it's just you trying to feel like an intellectual without doing any of the hard work. Thank god you've never heard of Deepak Chopra. Or have you?

I have some comments for you to consider:
1. What makes you think that people even HAVE souls? The "soul" is just something that humans make up so that we don't have to face death.

2. When you say "God is energy, we are made of energy, and so we are gods", t seems to me like you are trying to redefine god just to make sure you keep believing in him. Is that the case?

3. Perhaps you should try not being so vague? You say "God is energy", but what kind of energy is this? Kinetic? Electric? Thermal? Electromagnetic? Potential? Is it some "God energy" unknown to science? If so, what evidence do you have that it even exists anywhere other than in your own imagination?

4. "Theres no point in making a negative comment about it though.. If you don't like what you read pleae move along; it probably isn't for you :]"

How the hell are you supposed to advance your ideas if the only thing you have is positive reinforcement for them?
Imagine if the scientists who proposed the Luminiferous Ether "Don't point out any flaws, though. If you don't agree just move along, it probably isn't for you."
When the speed of light was shown to be the same no matter what direction you measured it in, the Luminiferous Ether hypothesis was blown out of the water, but you couldn't tell those scientists, could you? No, they aren't open to criticism.

Myself
04-05-2009, 06:10 AM
Self enlightenment does not exist.

End of story.

Ash
04-05-2009, 06:26 AM
Aww, myself has my old Fin avatar!

ashton777
04-05-2009, 12:14 PM
Ashton, I'm with OGrilla on this. You are making these vague and easy approximations about "connecting with your soul" and "god being a part of everyone", and it's in no way some great secret or anything, it's just you trying to feel like an intellectual without doing any of the hard work. I'm not trying to be intellectual at all; I am just saying, if you want to understand more about life you can do it by looking through your self... I'll try to explain to you what I describe a soul as. I personally think every single thing has a soul/is made of energy. As we do; but to connect to a soul is simply by connecting to whatever your thinking about... Cause energy is vibration (which IS scientifically proven - that when you omit a thought it sends out "vibration") WHich I call energy. So if our "soul" connects with another "soul" then we learn more about that soul... Simply by puttting that figure in your mind, does that make any sense?Thank god you've never heard of Deepak Chopra. Or have you? no?

I have some comments for you to consider:
1. What makes you think that people even HAVE souls? The "soul" is just something that humans make up so that we don't have to face death.
I'm not talking about those kinds of souls; I just use soul as a "term" cause I have no other thing to call it... It's just a thing that we can connect to, and we can connect to anything... Just by our mind on that figure, if anyone can do that... (which is simply thinking) Then there is some type of connection with that figure and you. If you never thought about anything, would u have any connection of/ know about it. No..

2. When you say "God is energy, we are made of energy, and so we are gods", t seems to me like you are trying to redefine god just to make sure you keep believing in him. Is that the case?
Not at all I say god cause its another term that you can... try to understand. Theres no other name for it, cause "god" is everything; if you are christain and asked a pastor or w/e what god is, they should say that god is and all that is ever created... And Jesus also says that the kingdom of heaven is inside of you.

3. Perhaps you should try not being so vague? You say "God is energy", but what kind of energy is this? Kinetic? Electric? Thermal?
Its above all that. Its what that is made up of... I can't put it into words. It's... Okay, if you cosed your eyes, and sat in the darkness of your "mind." GO into it, what is that darkness, or what makes up that place that keeps all your thoughts; and thats when you start to "understand" what it's made up of.
Electromagnetic? Potential? Is it some "God energy" unknown to science? If so, what evidence do you have that it even exists anywhere other than in your own imagination?
It exist everywhere, on everything, on every object... On every single particle of thought. On all planets, in all universal darkness/whatever you call it. It all started from this vibration of energy.
And your imagination is the "key" of connecting to this energy.. Cause thats where YOUR "mind" is/soul is.

4. "Theres no point in making a negative comment about it though.. If you don't like what you read pleae move along; it probably isn't for you :]"
No not positive at all, these questions are great, theres no worries. If you just look at the first few posts people were not asking anything, they were just... "laughing" and not saying anything I could honestly respond to. So I had to put that up so the people who would be syaing nothing and "spamming" would move away.
How the hell are you supposed to advance your ideas if the only thing you have is positive reinforcement for them?
Imagine if the scientists who proposed the Luminiferous Ether "Don't point out any flaws, though. If you don't agree just move along, it probably isn't for you." Again, what your doing is perfect.
When the speed of light was shown to be the same no matter what direction you measured it in, the Luminiferous Ether hypothesis was blown out of the water, but you couldn't tell those scientists, could you? No, they aren't open to criticism. Don't understand what your trying to say here..


Self enlightenment does not exist.



End of story.

:] It's okay. I'm sorry for you to belive that. But there is no problem with not believing that of course.

Zed
04-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Hooray - it's time for one of Zed's horrendously long posts!

I cannot believe I didn't notice this thread for three days. Quite a lot has been posted and I have only skimmed through it. With luck I won't be repeating much. Compliments on not having flamed much/at all btw.

I suspect I shall enjoy this quite a lot, but don't take it the wrong way. I'm trying to help you here. The quotes in this post are all your own words (spelling mistakes are not corrected) unless otherwise stated.


If you know something and belive its right and isn't right... You wouldn't know its not right.. So how are you gunna learn that what you think is right, is really not? Its when you go with "feelings" and you believe this "right" thing, over a period of time; life in itself will show you how it os right or wrong in a lesson.

And that lesson is me. I have been sent by the universe to show you what you are trying to find.

Ok, that was an unimaginably arrogant statement on my part. It's the kind of thing you'll grow to expect of me, get used to it quickly.

The meaning of anyone's life is to be as happy with it as possible. Different things make different people happy, but the one thing which is consistent and can be applied to nearly all lives is the setting of goals and attempting to reach them. Therefore the meaning of life can and will be whatever you want it to be. For some, the meaning of their lives is to help others. For others it is a life of hedonism and excess. I believe that you are seeking the truth and I hope I can help you out here because the meaning of my life is to try and make others feel inferior and gain sadistic pleasure out of it.


You start in a physical body of your self. And If I asked you to point to where your mind is where would you point... Problably to your head but, thats where your brain is... Now your mind is somewhere else; in a place that I cannot explain.

You have evidently thought about this carefully and I respect you for that. You are wrong however, likely through no fault of your own or poor logic, but by an absence of knowledge which I certainly wouldn't blame on a sixteen-year-old. The mind is located in the brain. The two are interwovan and inseperable. To remove the mind from the brain would be as to remove the concept of "health" from a fully functioning body. When a brain works it produces a mind. Your mind is the sum total of all your senses being brought together and comprehended, with imagination being a key componant in allowing the feeling of "self". Believing that you are something special is an evolved characteristic which has the advantage of making the organism attempt to escape danger.

I might not be explaining this clearly enough so I will try another way at the same time. Imagine a person with no mind. For simplicity imagine that the only working sense he has is vision. What happens when he looks at a lion? 'Absolutely nothing' is the answer I was looking for, because when he sees it he doesn't think lion, has no idea that the lion is something which should be ran away from, and does not have the capacity to imagine what will happen when the lion catches him. With no mind none of the other senses do anything, therefore a mind is a necessarily evolved characteristic which is housed in the brain like all other senses.

I still don't think I'm explaining this right. One more go - Everything that you experience is experienced by a sense. All senses are housed in the brain. Imagination is a sense and it is what makes you feel like you have some sort of self, otherwise you would just be processing the available information and aiming to eat, sleep and fuck without planning more than a few seconds ahead. You would not be able to think of alternatives or consequences without some sort of imagination and self.

It's hard to comprehend in a language designed for hurling abuse at the monkey in the next tree, but let's move on anyway shall we?


But you can witness this "feeling" or place EASILY!
All you have to do is close your eyes... Relax, and take a breathe. Now when you close your eyes what do you actually "see?" Blackness, look more into it, where is it... Study this blackness of nothing that your witnessed to. Where is that blackness located?? It's not in your head. Find it, where is it? That actual blackness is everything, in and out of life. Its where everything exists of. That blackness is you.

I'm sorry to erradicate this but no. When you close your eyes all you see is an absence of light and the insides of your eyelids. It is darkness that is experienced in exactly the same place as your computer screen is now. If you study it really closely you might see what looks like little multicoloured lights. That's because of the pressure exerted by your eyelids on the eyeballs.


Now after you understand this and connect with the soul of your mind, you start to (unconsiously) undertsand where your true soul is located.. Then you have to connect with your WHOLE soul. The soul that creates, manifests your being and to what happenes around you. Now that soul is not ment for "the law of attraction" (If you know what that is) It's not ment for you to create what you want in the now of time. If you want to try to create what you want now, then go into the universes soul and consult with it. Ask it for your things and what not.. It wont make you truly happy. The only thing that it does, is holds back whats really inside of you, what you really want... Most people don't know what they really want. You might say oh I want a phone, oh a car, but how do you know that something else can [I suspect you meant can't -Zed] make you 1000x happier yet you cannot find it?


I hadn't previously heard of the so-called "law of attraction" but ti sounds quite similar to affirmations so I'll pull some logic across, mutate it a little and spin it out with a new coat of paint.

Have you had previous experience with the law of attraction? I strongly suspect you have. I would be prepared to bet that any believer who gave it a go would find that it works, in the same way as 95% of participants found that Doctor Kevorkian's birthday was just as good as their own for producing an accurate life prediction based on astrology. The thing is, a lot of things happen. Many of those things will make you happy. If you asked the universe for happiness and the next day you won the lottery you would thank the universe. The important thing to remember is that if you had lost the lottery then you would have almost certainly not cursed the universe. You wouldn't have even considered the universe as having a part in it. Most likely you would find a fiver on the street and thank the universe for that instead. Or you would have seen an especially funny 'link of the day' here on SPP. This is exactly why the "law" suggests that you don't ask the universe for something like a new car - it's because it is bloody unlikely to happen. You are much more likely to have your prayers answered if you ask for something general.


The first step is living in the present of now. Focus, focus, focus, on whats heppening now in time. Our universe is about the now of time, cause in the now is how and when you create your past and future. It's unexplainable, but if you tart and try to connect to yourself, over time you will learn and understand.


I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to type this out again in English. There are too many possible meanings here for me to work through the typos. If I am correct and you said that what you do now effects your past then I may have to call bullshit on this. You don't seem the sort who wants to bring complex quantum mechanics into this so I suspect you were half asleep when you typed it up.


So what you have to do (in your mind) is not worry, or be excited about upcoming events, of the future. Don't be mounred, or remeber experiences and things that have happened in the past. It's about the now, look at whats infront of you and you will learn; that is the first step. If things are going good and your happy (when its in the present) be as joyful as you can. If things are boring and your doing nothing, just focus on what is there then. Thats the beggining connection of your soul.
Keep experience life this way, it might take a while to get into the now, cause were usually always focused on future and past. Just keep focusing on the present, and do it as long as you can; cause later it will be easier for you to stay their.
After this is when you connect to you heart... Your heart is where desires build, its part of your soul, and it has a soul itself

What you appear to be saying is that you will be happier if you ignore everything. Ignorance is bliss. Yes, temporarily. What makes most people upset is specific events in either the past or the future. The trouble is that I don't think you're finding happiness. What you are doing here is finding neutrality, which, whilst not a bad start point for some, is not pleasure either. Obviously, if your mother has just died it will do no good to dwell on it and focusing on something else will be better, however, memory of a good time will lift you even higher.

Likewise with the future - you can worry about a deadline, or you can think "well it's not here yet. No effect on me." The trouble with this is that sometimes looking to the future is a good thing. At some point tomorow I will need to eat. It would be a good idea, then, if I have food in the house ready. It may be raining tomorow, in which case having to walk down to the shops would be unpleasant, so it is better to have food here. That way I avoid pain in the future at little expenditure now. I agree that it is best not to allways think about tommorow because it is good to enjoy today. Sit there and think "I'm glad I'm not walking down that rainy street at the moment" by all means, but don't live in the present entirely or you will notice it's rapid deterioration.


I'm going to stop here and carry on later because I'm tired and I suspect I run the risk of exceeding the character limit for a post if I go on, however I have one question before I go.


Every-single-thing is made up of energy. Little particles of vibration. Now all these partices have what we humans call, "souls." They each have life that you can connect to. They experience (on different levels) a type of... "Thought."

What do you mean? I can see where you're coming from in the earlier bits because I think you mean "Self" when you've said "soul", but are you trying to tell me that a hydrogen atom has thoughts and plans ("me and my mate are going to join with one of those big, sexy oxygen atoms and then we'll get consumed by a higher being and excreted though his penis!!")?


I hope you have found at least some of this interesting and thought provoking.

ashton777
04-05-2009, 03:34 PM
.
Hooray - it's time for one of Zed's horrendously long posts!

I cannot believe I didn't notice this thread for three days. Quite a lot has been posted and I have only skimmed through it. With luck I won't be repeating much. Compliments on not having flamed much/at all btw.

I suspect I shall enjoy this quite a lot, but don't take it the wrong way. I'm trying to help you here. The quotes in this post are all your own words (spelling mistakes are not corrected) unless otherwise stated.



And that lesson is me. I have been sent by the universe to show you what you are trying to find.

Don'y quiete understand that...?

Ok, that was an unimaginably arrogant statement on my part. It's the kind of thing you'll grow to expect of me, get used to it quickly.
If ur meaning the thing abouve then yah I understand, if not I dunno what your talking about.

The meaning of anyone's life is to be as happy with it as possible. Good. Different things make different people happy, but the one thing which is consistent and can be applied to nearly all lives is the setting of goals and attempting to reach them. Yes, but the goal thing is what I have opposite... I'm saying if you first live in the "present time" then you will see what you truly want; after you connect to your hear. All I'm saying about the hear is it will show you real, and true desires.Therefore the meaning of life can and will be whatever you want it to be.Of course it can. For some, the meaning of their lives is to help others. If you wan't it to be. For others it is a life of hedonism and excess. Cause they created it that way, either without notice, or they need it and can't understand why.I believe that you are seeking the truth and I hope I can help you out here because the meaning of my life is to try and make others feel inferior and gain sadistic pleasure out of it. Thats true, you can create it that way or any other, but thats because you grew up and saw things arounf you. It's what "intreaged" you the most. How do you knwo theres not soemthign that can be... "1000x better" than that. You can be doing more... Possibly, matters on how you create it.



You have evidently thought about this carefully and I respect you for that. Haha, thanks for the respect but thats the thing I don't do a lot... Cause if once you learn that you don't have to think, somehow an "inner precnece" takes care of you... But it'ws not that your not thinking, your just "phasing" yourself into a different part of "time." Sorry, I'll try to explain further later, I have a lot to type haha. You are wrong however, likely through no fault of your own or poor logic, but by an absence of knowledge which I certainly wouldn't blame on a sixteen-year-old. COuld be a possibility. The mind is located in the brain. The two are interwovan and inseperable. Yes and I understand that, but if you go further into it, and see where the mind exists of, not your eye-lids like you say later. Im talking about the actual "blackness" of your mind... It's the closest thing I can explain to "see" in my eyes; what nothing/everything starts of. To remove the mind from the brain would be as to remove the concept of "health" from a fully functioning body. Of course, on anything, you are right, but after where would it go after? The thing that made you exist, it wouldn't dissapear, thats part of what I am finding, but "not finding." I belive through time what I need to know will be shown through me, I have already tested it, and it works, maybe its only me, or you can think I'm crazy, but I know other people have foindn this "inner guidence" I'm just trying to show it to some one and see what they think. When a brain works it produces a mind. Exactly, and below the brain is its "insides or whatever" that cunsumes into the end - energy. SO that means your brain is conencted to your "mind - two different things, but they are really one when you think of a head. Your mind is the sum total of all your senses being brought together and comprehended, with imagination being a key componant in allowing the feeling of "self". Yes, it is the sum total. ANd whats the total of your senses, and of the think below that... Once again it connects to energy in the end. Thats what I call the "end result" or life is. Believing that you are something special is an evolved characteristic which has the advantage of making the organism attempt to escape danger. Haha, but you think its considered soemthing special. To live and not worry, to just let life come to you how it is.... Thats how it really is suposed to be... Our "brain" truly stops the flow of our true being. Cause "society" and human "science" has taught us otherwise.

I might not be explaining this clearly enough so I will try another way at the same time. Imagine a person with no mind. For simplicity imagine that the only working sense he has is vision. What happens when he looks at a lion? 'Absolutely nothing' is the answer I was looking for, because when he sees it he doesn't think lion, has no idea that the lion is something which should be ran away from, and does not have the capacity to imagine what will happen when the lion catches him. With no mind none of the other senses do anything, therefore a mind is a necessarily evolved characteristic which is housed in the brain like all other senses.

I still don't think I'm explaining this right. One more go - Everything that you experience is experienced by a sense. All senses are housed in the brain. Imagination is a sense and it is what makes you feel like you have some sort of self, otherwise you would just be processing the available information and aiming to eat, sleep and fuck without planning more than a few seconds ahead. You would not be able to think of alternatives or consequences without some sort of imagination and self.

It's hard to comprehend in a language designed for hurling abuse at the monkey in the next tree, but let's move on anyway shall we?
----------



I'm sorry to erradicate this but no. When you close your eyes all you see is an absence of light and the insides of your eyelids. Hm.. Interesting, The onyl visible light I see is that from the sun glazing into our eye lids. But I am once again not talkign about what you "see" I'm talking about a "inner" sense. What you feel when you connect to your "mind." It is darkness that is experienced in exactly the same place as your computer screen is now. Thats colors reflecting off our eyes, thats what the scientists say. If you study it really closely you might see what looks like little multicoloured lights. That's because of the pressure exerted by your eyelids on the eyeballs.



I hadn't previously heard of the so-called "law of attraction" but ti sounds quite similar to affirmations so I'll pull some logic across, mutate it a little and spin it out with a new coat of paint. Probably, affirmations sound something liek good thoughts will bring you good things? Correct? Cause it's "conspired" through the universe. And that is right, thats what I call the "Universes" soul there tapping into.
The "Law of Attraction" is alike it, but actually connecting what you want to you through thoughts and the universe. Like... If I imagined a cup of coffe being given to me by someone, and kept imagining that thing, then I would get it from somone in the future...

Have you had previous experience with the law of attraction? A lot; I know it works for a fact... At least for me. But your using not what you truly want, or people think it's what they want but havn't "expierienced" more than they could... I strongly suspect you have. I would be prepared to bet that any believer who gave it a go would find that it works, in the same way as 95% of participants found that Doctor Kevorkian's birthday was just as good as their own for producing an accurate life prediction based on astrology. Again Universe... ANd connecting to its "future." (Astrology) The thing is, a lot of things happen. Course ;)Many of those things will make you happy. If you asked the universe for happiness and the next day you won the lottery you would thank the universe. Yah who else would you thank, you would never think about thanking yourself would you? How do you know its not "you" who brought you it.. The important thing to remember is that if you had lost the lottery then you would have almost certainly not cursed the universe. Nope, again you would curse at you, cause your not "good enough" to use the Universes things. You wouldn't have even considered the universe as having a part in it. I know it does thats the main thing that I belive is wrong, and you can jsut use yourself, and connect to your "inner god" as you/people woudl call it. Cause its so "special" yet its in everyone. Again I believe society makes us think we SHOULD thank some one other than ourselfs. Why? cause were just human, one out of so many. WHat could we change? Most likely you would find a fiver on the street and thank the universe for that instead. Yah, you might. Or you would have seen an especially funny 'link of the day' here on SPP. This is exactly why the "law" suggests that you don't ask the universe for something like a new car - it's because it is bloody unlikely to happen. Thats what the law does suggest, but how dfo you know it's what you truly want. Through time if your with yourself you will find what you truly want, and the Universe and all the thigns connected to energy will help and try to guide you. Cause it is you! Sicne all is one, it's... SO complicated and hard to explain. You are much more likely to have your prayers answered if you ask for something general. Usually not, it happenes around 15% of the time. And who do u pray to, soemthing thats abouve you. You can "part" of that. You are! I';m saying its inside us, every person.



I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to type this out again in English. There are too many possible meanings here for me to work through the typos. Im pretty sure I explained way abouve. If I am correct and you said that what you do now effects your past then I may have to call bullshit on this. Its soemthing that our "brains" can't understand. But in a way yes, it's the now that makes you who you were and are, cause if you change somethign now it effects your future. Just as if you changed soemthing in the past it effects your future... If your just focusing in "present time" what you see going around you then you will start to learn. You don't seem the sort who wants to bring complex quantum mechanics into this so I suspect you were half asleep when you typed it up. In a way yes, I was up all night, but I have edited a lot if you looked? Idk if the one u quoted from was the one from before or after I edited it a lil.



What you appear to be saying is that you will be happier if you ignore everything. No no no! You just dont need to worry about future or past, ignore that yes; cause thats what fears you away from the now and what you truly want. All time is one but we jsut can't "brainly" understand that. Ignorance is bliss. Yes, temporarily. No in the beggining it will be hard, but it will teach you the fastest. Later it will even be harder, but once you understand and just NOT worry; you will be truly satisfied. We try to "prepare" ourselfs for whats comming up, or what happened, but it only makes us more fearful! What makes most people upset is specific events in either the past or the future. Yah! Exactly. The trouble is that I don't think you're finding happiness. Yes I am, things are comming to me that I have never seen, I'm truly happier that I know this than when I was "human (to you)" and going in life every day with no sense of "connection" from whats around me. WOrryign about if I look good, or the time I messed up something. Just be pleasent of whats happening, and thingsa will slowly start to make sense. What you are doing here is finding neutrality, which, whilst not a bad start point for some, is not pleasure either. Not nuetrility, if somethign good is infront of you then, enjoy it the most, love it cause thats the now... But when soemthing bad comes your way, you have to learn and understand from it; it's really a true "lesson" in disguise. Obviously, if your mother has just died it will do no good to dwell on it and focusing on something else will be better, however, memory of a good time will lift you even higher. No but sometimes "hiding" it would be bad. IF something tragic like that happenes just focus on the now, and see what IS going on. Dont push it away, accept, and keep living to what you see.

Likewise with the future - you can worry about a deadline, or you can think "well it's not here yet. No effect on me." Your still thinking of the future when your "saying that" just livinh in the present is what yoiu need to do. You will get the "will" to do it when it needs to be done, or something might happen that the "due date" will be changed. How would you really know?? I'm saying when you feel its time to do the thing, do it, once you live with your true self, you will want to find out more, and you WILL do more things... In the beggining things might change fast, but thats old energy changing into the new. The trouble with this is that sometimes looking to the future is a good thing. For you it would "appear" so. But why wouldn't want to enjoy that "pleasent thing" when it comes. That will be the best time for it, not when somehtign esle is happening.. See there is no "point" in looking further into it, cause it will be shown if needed. At some point tomorow I will need to eat. Me too. It would be a good idea, then, if I have food in the house ready. It may be raining tomorow, in which case having to walk down to the shops would be unpleasant, so it is better to have food here. But that walk to the shop is what could exactly bring you anything. ANYTHING could happen if you went to the shop on a rainy day, or nothing. Thats the exciting thing that you will notice when you do go in the present of the "now". When you go with feelings on what you really want, you will see and understand what should truly come to you, and when it should appear. That way I avoid pain in the future at little expenditure now. I agree that it is best not to allways think about tommorow because it is good to enjoy today. Yes.. Sit there and think "I'm glad I'm not walking down that rainy street at the moment" by all means, but don't live in the present entirely or you will notice it's rapid deterioration. But that walk could be where you find the love of your life, or the little things that could lead to an adventure, could you understand me on this?


I'm going to stop here and carry on later because I'm tired and I suspect I run the risk of exceeding the character limit for a post if I go on, however I have one question before I go. Understandable, I am very tired aswell, a lot of posts I've been replying to, it takes a lot of my time :) But I feel that I should, so it's going to be a part of me until something continues on.



What do you mean? I can see where you're coming from in the earlier bits because I think you mean "Self" when you've said "soul", but are you trying to tell me that a hydrogen atom has thoughts and plans ("me and my mate are going to join with one of those big, sexy oxygen atoms and then we'll get consumed by a higher being and excreted though his penis!!")? Thats the way you would think of it... BEcause you experience a thoguth that way.. That do have thoughts, but in a way I can't express. It's not hat they feel emotion, but they understand what they are needed for or else they wouldn't do anything... Cause if it had no understanding then what would happen... Nothing.


I hope you have found at least some of this interesting and thought provoking. A lot, it has made me thoguht, and I hope it makes you awell ;)

(thank you for everyones time in at least seeing what I have to say..)

Zed
04-05-2009, 03:57 PM
Talking with you is fun. I have to expend some extra time working out what you mean from what you say.

I don't have time to type out a huge response here but there are still a couple of things confusing me that I want to ask quickly.

Could you clarify your idea of how the present effects the past? If there's any way that I can have scored higher in my GCSEs I want to know about it. I'm certain you aren't talking about quantum theory. Are you talking about changing our perceptions of the past or the past itself?

Also, your entire argument about not worrying about the future appears to rest upon its unpredictability, yes? You say not to plan ahead because the unexpected may happen. Surely it is better to weigh up the odds of the unexpected happening before relying on it. If I am going to get fired if I don't meet a deadline then it is irrational of me to let my work slip in the hope that the deadline will be extended. It would be foolish of me to bet everything I have on a fair die rolling a two when the bookie was giving me evens odds. Certainly, the two may come up and the deadline may be extended, but these are unlikely events and the downside risk far outweighs the potential gain.

You should know before we discuss further that I am a completely reductionist physicalist/monist and I am unlikely to accept the existence of anything which can't be explained by particle physics and laws of nature.


Oh, and 1=1. I don't know where you're planning on going with any of this but I want to lay out in advance that I will defend to the death the notion that 1=1, always has and always will. It is one aspect of the universe, past, present and future, which I consider indisputable and immutable.

Cosmonaut
04-05-2009, 04:00 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_anQnlU5D4sM/ReLpDwbc2II/AAAAAAAAATo/yfzKVEgOl7k/s400/nqatada.jpg

ashton777
04-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Talking with you is fun. I have to expend some extra time working out what you mean from what you say.

I don't have time to type out a huge response here but there are still a couple of things confusing me that I want to ask quickly.

Could you clarify your idea of how the present effects the past? If there's any way that I can have scored higher in my GCSEs I want to know about it. I'm certain you aren't talking about quantum theory. No I am not, and its not something that our "minds" do. It's more of... everything effects everything... It's soemthing that is very hard for me to write cause it doesn't compliment much wiht human thought... But Ill try to explain... If you live in the now, you are connected to whole part of timeframe... And if you want to give yourself a warning from the "future" into the now, you can in a way... As in if you went this path and didnt use a condom you would have a baby and you would be stuck int hat life... But if you felt this big URGE on not to have sex (random topic) without a condom cause things could be this way... It's you "in a sense" telling yourself not to do it cause of the future outcome of whats could or wouldve happen. It's simple, but so hard for me to explain, hope thta makes some type of sense. Are you talking about changing our perceptions of the past or the past itself? More of going into it, this will be hard to... If you Live more of the now, some how you will see the "truth" if something should be changed in the future by those inner "urges." So if your walking along and you "feel" you should go right on the road or left. It could have been cause the left road would kill you at that time and you felt that you should go right... If you werent focusing, worrieng about soemthign that might happen and "miss" this right turn then your doomed... (just an example or way to put it)
Also, your entire argument about not worrying about the future appears to rest upon its unpredictability, yes? Yes because that unpredictability can turn your life into a dream world. It's what makes things so "intreging" or "inturesting" is the fact that you can live in this manner. Then it will test you and you will learn and understand how to go further into it. As it is testing me now. You say not to plan ahead because the unexpected may happen. In a way, it can also help you more if your just in the present and know whats going on now. Cause it will teach you and help you more than "worrying" about the future events. Surely it is better to weigh up the odds of the unexpected happening before relying on it. Thats a "humans/society's" way of thinking about it. How do you know it's REALLY better. If I am going to get fired if I don't meet a deadline then it is irrational of me to let my work slip in the hope that the deadline will be extended. Theres two different things I can say here. 1: Yes if you feel that you should be lazy and not want to do the deadline than do it, but if you feel you should then that means ur supposed to... I'm not saying go over the top and just let everything you have go... Im jsut saying if your in the present of that time, then that "urge" means to do the deadline work...
2: If you have an urge to not do it it could very well end up in you either with no job lifeless -whcih anythign can manifest from- or it could lead to a way better job that you ahev not expected... It's the fact that we can;t see whats comming is what scares us... But if it's bad it WILL teach you a lesson. You won't literally die from this... You will jsut be reformed into what your supposed to know/see. It would be foolish of me to bet everything I have on a fair die rolling a two when the bookie was giving me evens odds. Yah but loosing that bet or winning can both have there outcomes, int he end you learn from it, or you enjoy it as much as you can! Certainly, the two may come up and the deadline may be extended, but these are unlikely events and the downside risk far outweighs the potential gain. Again like I said.. It could lbe for the best and you don;t even know... But how would you know? Only from "past" experiences, right?

You should know before we discuss further that I am a completely reductionist physicalist/monist and I am unlikely to accept the existence of anything which can't be explained by particle physics and laws of nature. I don't belive that, I think anyone can change anything... And if you don't know how to change yourself, than that would be "normal" for you... Cause what are you? How does your mind work? From your past experiences and thoughts created/manipulates you into the now... Thats how you think and act, if Life was great to you then most likly you would be a happy person.. If life was bad to you it woould make u surly a mean person. Does that at least make sense?


Oh, and 1=1. I don't know where you're planning on going with any of this but I want to lay out in advance that I will defend to the death the notion that 1=1, always has and always will. Are you sure or is that how your brain thinks of it... And why would your brain think that way? Well because thats how society teaches it to us... Obviously 1=1 but so does 1=2 and 1=4... I can easily explain this also. If you look at an object, (and this is every day life) Ex: a tree.
There is ONE whole tree there. Look out, find a tree, now you see ONE tree.. Well theres a branch on that tree, and leaves on it, aren't they there own things? Yet... That tree is just 1? But again, its made up of thousands and billions of things, but its jsut 1 thing? Why dont you call a tree 1 billion things, cause thats what it really is... And all those particles count as things aswell, so thats part of that tree too! It's really common sense that 1=anything... And if you don;t count that as proving it... I don't know what else I can tell you, cause then you really are living just in "societys" ways of thoughts. And you wouldn't accept any more, even thought it could be right... Why not put a test and try it yourself? Understand what I teach and try it for a week or something.. See if things change, or what happenes... If you don't feel that its the actual right way to be/go then don't do it... It's as simple as that. It is one aspect of the universe, past, present and future, which I consider indisputable and immutable. And why is it that way, cause thats what you truly belive... No ones a know it all, I could be wrong on everything I said here, but I know it will show itself to me later, I felt and told myself that already, cause this is where my TRUE intention has taken me...



(I have to type soemthing cause it says characters are too short))

Automaton
04-05-2009, 06:14 PM
1=1. End of.

We're not talking of 1 as being an object made of other things. 1 is a representation of something, a symbol. How can 1=2? It isn't that society has taught us 1=1, it's general laws. You can refer it to "apple=apple". An apple!=A pear.

Ash
04-05-2009, 06:38 PM
It's funny how if you spray bullshit with enough Oust it smells a bit like potpourri.

ashton777
04-05-2009, 08:51 PM
1=1. End of.

We're not talking of 1 as being an object made of other things. 1 is a representation of something, a symbol. How can 1=2? It isn't that society has taught us 1=1, it's general laws. You can refer it to "apple=apple". An apple!=A pear.

Thats how you were taught so it's how you think... Mathmatical terms are just a human "concept" if certain things. I am not saying you are wrong, but there is more and less to all that we know...

And yes in what we have learned an apple is different from a pear, cause it consists of "different" looks/smells/tastes.. But if you go on the "last" level in Metaphysics or w/e, (science) than that last thing is energy. And all is made up of energy, so again, in a different way of thinking 1 CAN = 2...

Another example... If there are 2 people. A man and woman, they have sex... 1+1 =3 cause the baby they bring out... If you think of it in simple terms 1 DOES and CAN = 3.... I mean how do you not understand? But yes in your mind 1=1 and nothing else can interfear with that way of thinking, no matter what, cause it just IS right...? With that basic term of thinking; again, 1+1= anything; it matters which way you percieve things.. :p

Automaton
04-05-2009, 10:09 PM
Thats how you were taught so it's how you think... Mathmatical terms are just a human "concept" if certain things. I am not saying you are wrong, but there is more and less to all that we know...
Umm no. Maths is not a human concept. It has existed waaay before we did. It governs the universe and is a means of understanding things. The truth 1+1=2 was around before us. If there were 1+1 planets, there were 2 planets.

And yes in what we have learned an apple is different from a pear, cause it consists of "different" looks/smells/tastes.. But if you go on the "last" level in Metaphysics or w/e, (science) than that last thing is energy. And all is made up of energy, so again, in a different way of thinking 1 CAN = 2...
OK that was a bad example by me. Maths is not physical. It's a way of representing things. I can't really think how to argue other than to say that maths requires no energy. Nothing in foundation/solid maths can change. 5x5 is always 25. End of.

Another example... If there are 2 people. A man and woman, they have sex... 1+1 =3 cause the baby they bring out... If you think of it in simple terms 1 DOES and CAN = 3.... I mean how do you not understand? But yes in your mind 1=1 and nothing else can interfear with that way of thinking, no matter what, cause it just IS right...? With that basic term of thinking; again, 1+1= anything; it matters which way you percieve things.. :p
Oh lord, did you really just say that? You can't represent that with math. That's like saying "1 chip + 1 chip = 3 chips because I ripped them apart and made a third, hurrr". In reality you'd just created the statement "1 chip + 1 chip + 2 mashed up parts of chips = 3 chips". Forget the numbers actually representing something, and just think of it as pure logic. 1 != 2 because there is nothing for 1 to represent, and be edited with. Your logic is ****ed up.

Zed
04-06-2009, 03:41 AM
Thats how you were taught so it's how you think... Mathmatical terms are just a human "concept" if certain things. I am not saying you are wrong, but there is more and less to all that we know...

And yes in what we have learned an apple is different from a pear, cause it consists of "different" looks/smells/tastes.. But if you go on the "last" level in Metaphysics or w/e, (science) than that last thing is energy. And all is made up of energy, so again, in a different way of thinking 1 CAN = 2...

Another example... If there are 2 people. A man and woman, they have sex... 1+1 =3 cause the baby they bring out... If you think of it in simple terms 1 DOES and CAN = 3.... I mean how do you not understand? But yes in your mind 1=1 and nothing else can interfear with that way of thinking, no matter what, cause it just IS right...? With that basic term of thinking; again, 1+1= anything; it matters which way you percieve things.. :p

No. what you mean is that 1X = 2Y. You are looking at two entirely different things and comparing them directly.

Yes, one tree = several billion atoms, however, one atom does not equal two atoms. If it did then the universe would spontaneously explode becasue thoes two atoms would be made up of two one atoms which would suddenly equal four. If 1>1 then 1=aleph nul which is clearly impossible. This is not because my mind cannot comprehend it, it is because I exist and therefore I have proof that 1=1.

With your human example it isn't 1+1=3. its 1m+1w+af=kc+1m+1w where m=man, w=woman, c=child, a=an unknown constant, f=food and k=an unknown constant (allowing for twins).

I haven't looked at the rest yet but I have a lot of free time today. If that doesn't sound ominous you don't know me.

Zed
04-06-2009, 04:39 AM
Talking with you is fun. I have to expend some extra time working out what you mean from what you say.

I don't have time to type out a huge response here but there are still a couple of things confusing me that I want to ask quickly.

Could you clarify your idea of how the present effects the past? If there's any way that I can have scored higher in my GCSEs I want to know about it. I'm certain you aren't talking about quantum theory. No I am not, and its not something that our "minds" do. It's more of... everything effects everything... It's soemthing that is very hard for me to write cause it doesn't compliment much wiht human thought... But Ill try to explain... If you live in the now, you are connected to whole part of timeframe... And if you want to give yourself a warning from the "future" into the now, you can in a way... As in if you went this path and didnt use a condom you would have a baby and you would be stuck int hat life... But if you felt this big URGE on not to have sex (random topic) without a condom cause things could be this way... It's you "in a sense" telling yourself not to do it cause of the future outcome of whats could or wouldve happen. It's simple, but so hard for me to explain, hope thta makes some type of sense. Are you talking about changing our perceptions of the past or the past itself? More of going into it, this will be hard to... If you Live more of the now, some how you will see the "truth" if something should be changed in the future by those inner "urges." So if your walking along and you "feel" you should go right on the road or left. It could have been cause the left road would kill you at that time and you felt that you should go right... If you werent focusing, worrieng about soemthign that might happen and "miss" this right turn then your doomed... (just an example or way to put it)Also, your entire argument about not worrying about the future appears to rest upon its unpredictability, yes? Yes because that unpredictability can turn your life into a dream world. It's what makes things so "intreging" or "inturesting" is the fact that you can live in this manner. Then it will test you and you will learn and understand how to go further into it. As it is testing me now. You say not to plan ahead because the unexpected may happen. In a way, it can also help you more if your just in the present and know whats going on now. Cause it will teach you and help you more than "worrying" about the future events. Surely it is better to weigh up the odds of the unexpected happening before relying on it. Thats a "humans/society's" way of thinking about it. How do you know it's REALLY better. If I am going to get fired if I don't meet a deadline then it is irrational of me to let my work slip in the hope that the deadline will be extended. Theres two different things I can say here. 1: Yes if you feel that you should be lazy and not want to do the deadline than do it, but if you feel you should then that means ur supposed to... I'm not saying go over the top and just let everything you have go... Im jsut saying if your in the present of that time, then that "urge" means to do the deadline work...
2: If you have an urge to not do it it could very well end up in you either with no job lifeless -whcih anythign can manifest from- or it could lead to a way better job that you ahev not expected... It's the fact that we can;t see whats comming is what scares us... But if it's bad it WILL teach you a lesson. You won't literally die from this... You will jsut be reformed into what your supposed to know/see. It would be foolish of me to bet everything I have on a fair die rolling a two when the bookie was giving me evens odds. Yah but loosing that bet or winning can both have there outcomes, int he end you learn from it, or you enjoy it as much as you can! Certainly, the two may come up and the deadline may be extended, but these are unlikely events and the downside risk far outweighs the potential gain. Again like I said.. It could lbe for the best and you don;t even know... But how would you know? Only from "past" experiences, right?

You should know before we discuss further that I am a completely reductionist physicalist/monist and I am unlikely to accept the existence of anything which can't be explained by particle physics and laws of nature. I don't belive that, I think anyone can change anything... And if you don't know how to change yourself, than that would be "normal" for you... Cause what are you? How does your mind work? From your past experiences and thoughts created/manipulates you into the now... Thats how you think and act, if Life was great to you then most likly you would be a happy person.. If life was bad to you it woould make u surly a mean person. Does that at least make sense?

Oh, and 1=1. I don't know where you're planning on going with any of this but I want to lay out in advance that I will defend to the death the notion that 1=1, always has and always will. Are you sure or is that how your brain thinks of it... And why would your brain think that way? Well because thats how society teaches it to us... Obviously 1=1 but so does 1=2 and 1=4... I can easily explain this also. If you look at an object, (and this is every day life) Ex: a tree.
There is ONE whole tree there. Look out, find a tree, now you see ONE tree.. Well theres a branch on that tree, and leaves on it, aren't they there own things? Yet... That tree is just 1? But again, its made up of thousands and billions of things, but its jsut 1 thing? Why dont you call a tree 1 billion things, cause thats what it really is... And all those particles count as things aswell, so thats part of that tree too! It's really common sense that 1=anything... And if you don;t count that as proving it... I don't know what else I can tell you, cause then you really are living just in "societys" ways of thoughts. And you wouldn't accept any more, even thought it could be right... Why not put a test and try it yourself? Understand what I teach and try it for a week or something.. See if things change, or what happenes... If you don't feel that its the actual right way to be/go then don't do it... It's as simple as that. It is one aspect of the universe, past, present and future, which I consider indisputable and immutable. And why is it that way, cause thats what you truly belive... No ones a know it all, I could be wrong on everything I said here, but I know it will show itself to me later, I felt and told myself that already, cause this is where my TRUE intention has taken me...

Hmm.

I've read through everything you've written here and on your webpage twice and skimmed the rest of this thread. I'm still trying to work out if you're actually saying anything.

What I have deduced so far:

1. If you feel that you should do something then you should do it.

2. Big things are made of lots of little things.

3. All that exists is energy.

4. Energy has a soul.

5. If you feel that you should do something it may well be your future self sending a telepathic message back to you to tell you to do it.

6. The past, present and future are all simultaneously existing points in a hyperdimentional phase space consisting of all potential collaberations of universal matter and the apparent fourth dimension is merely caused by the shifting of our disembodied conscious souls through the aforementioned phase space tracing a temporal line and creating the illusion of time passing.

7. God is energy. Everything is energy. Everything is God.

8. Desire origionates from the heart.


Am I close? Did I miss anything? Now, a response:


1. This doesn't really say anything though, does it? A lot of people will do this naturally. Part of human nature is to seek out what you think you want. A lot of people think that money will make them happy so they spend their time seeking it. This is not all that insightful. To the best of my knowledge there is no one who thinks "I'm thirsty and the tap is within reach but I won't drink. I don't know why."

2. Yes. Scientific fact.

3. E=mc^2. Granted.

4. Here we hit a snag. What is a soul? You haven't made the definition clear. In your next post, could you please try and explain to me what you mean when you say "soul"? Is it physical? Is it conscious? Does my liver have its own soul or does it share mine?

5. How? I need some sort of explanation here, preferably with referances to quarks. I also need an explanation of how this fails to initiate a temporal paradox. If I tell my past self that having sex without a condom really didn't work out that well then he won't use a condom, I will never have existed, no one will have learned to use a condom, no one will pass the message on, he won't use a condom, a baby will be born, a message will be passed back that using a condom would have been a good idea all along, etc.

6. All right, it's one theory. It is equally surported by the evidence as all other theories are. Runs into a little trouble with Ockam's Razor but nothing too serious.

7. This defines nothing. You are giving something the label of "God" but I could equally give that name to my pen. We could say that all the energy in the universe is called "dog" and it would get us just as far. This may not be crucial to your point, I don't know if you're a Christian or not, but I want to make it absolutely clear that this goes nowhere towards showing the existance of the God of classical theism.

8. Nope. I expect you are using the term "heart" quite loosely but desire stems from the dorsal striatum, a part of the brain.


In your response, please try to keep ambiguous words to a minimum. Short answers are preferable but not arbitrary.

Ash
04-06-2009, 03:38 PM
My issue with you, ashton, is that you insist on using terms that have a proper definition in ways that don't match their definition.

For example, you are saying that God is energy, and yet you aren't talking about an omnipotent being. So why use the term god at all? Same with "soul", and even "energy".

ashton777
04-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Hmm.

I've read through everything you've written here and on your webpage twice and skimmed the rest of this thread. I'm still trying to work out if you're actually saying anything.

What I have deduced so far:

1. If you feel that you should do something then you should do it.

2. Big things are made of lots of little things.

3. All that exists is energy.

4. Energy has a soul.

5. If you feel that you should do something it may well be your future self sending a telepathic message back to you to tell you to do it.

6. The past, present and future are all simultaneously existing points in a hyperdimentional phase space consisting of all potential collaberations of universal matter and the apparent fourth dimension is merely caused by the shifting of our disembodied conscious souls through the aforementioned phase space tracing a temporal line and creating the illusion of time passing.

7. God is energy. Everything is energy. Everything is God.

8. Desire origionates from the heart.


Am I close? Did I miss anything? Now, a response:


1. This doesn't really say anything though, does it? It does; this is one of the main importances... but har to explain. A lot of people will do this naturally. But not a lot understand what naturally is... They go with thoughts, but how do u TRULY know if YOUR thoughts are the right or wrong decision? Well some people may not have expierienced this before; but have you ever had a bad feeling or "gut intuition" of something. Some people have it more than others, but these feelings occur with everything! We just don't usually realize them; and this "feeling;" is what you connect to more and more when you live in the now/present of whats going on... Cause your noticing things you havn't before. Part of human nature is to seek out what you think you want. Cause we don't know what we truly want, and how would we learn... A lot of people think that money will make them happy so they spend their time seeking it. TRUE;This is not all that insightful. Sorry, I know thats why its so funny! Cause it's in everyones everyday lives but people just don't "notice" it. (I don;t feel like typing more, I think youll get the explanation through reading this) To the best of my knowledge there is no one who thinks "I'm thirsty and the tap is within reach but I won't drink. I don't know why." Of course not, that's because that "feeling" you're noticing IS thirst... But what if there is something infront of you, like a girl. You want to talk to her but don't go with it... NOW ANYTHING in the world could of happened if you did, you could have ended up marrying or or it could be someone you would chat with for a minute... (which can also change things in many ways) But by not talking to her that cuts all that out, and leaves you with the other "road." Just from not talking to that one girl could change your life in many many ways awell! Or could effect nothing... But! Just that one thing, and every little situation that does occur to us dayly; Overall changes our whole lifes...

2. Yes. Scientific fact. Of course, not just "scientific" you witness it aswell. But I am basing the little things to energy, cause thats the design of every big thing/the world

3. E=mc^2. Granted.
:D good you can understand that

4. Here we hit a snag. What is a soul? You haven't made the definition clear. In your next post, could you please try and explain to me what you mean when you say "soul"? Is it physical? Is it conscious? Does my liver have its own soul or does it share mine?
This might take a little to post...

I say soul cause it's the only (known) word I can use at this point in time... I'll try to explain my best!

It is.. In a way, "conscious." Cause one particle of energy has this "soul." It has a vibration of thought. Not as in, "me and the energy particle next to me are going to be put together to make this human..."
It's more of... A plant. That is the easiest example I can give. It runs with thought but not as ours... If you burned a plant it would omit a thought of "pain" (scientists have tests)... So a plant has a soul? Not a human soul like I said, but it's different; it is a level of "conciousness." Now every particle of energy has this different level of "conciousness."

Let's go to your liver and how I think of things... Your human figure and mind itself is created by energy particles. Now if those didn't have a soul what would make up our "thoughts?" Our brain of course! But our brain wouldn't have any thoughts if an energy particle did not know/have experience a "level of thought" of its own!
(If you understand that then move along)
So there is your liver, again, made up of these energy particles... Now what do you see when you say liver in your "mind?" Of course a liver, but thats actually a soul to soul connection since your thoughts are on it... It also has thoughts on you since your liver processes threw your body! If it had no thought than why on earth would it process!? Then you can say well, the brain makes it process! Well of course it doese, but what makes the brain process, the liver and everything connected to the body; which melts down -in the end- to energy... SO energy, and everything energy makes up, uses each other for a "process" of life. That's where "all is one" comes directly from... At least in my point of view. So yes, since energy has a "soul" the liver itself has a "soul" because if that didnt have a "soul" than it would not function properly!

( sorry for it being so long, I really have no other ways of explaining, and if you have any questions I'll try to make it make more sense to you.)

5. How? I need some sort of explanation here, preferably with referances to quarks. I also need an explanation of how this fails to initiate a temporal paradox. If I tell my past self that having sex without a condom really didn't work out that well then he won't use a condom, I will never have existed, no one will have learned to use a condom, no one will pass the message on, he won't use a condom, a baby will be born, a message will be passed back that using a condom would have been a good idea all along, etc.
I tried my best of an explanation... And I don't knwo what you mean" tell your past" Thats not what would happen... It's not like the "future" that an action will directly change it, cause the two things ARE different, (just as the present is...) But it's that the "present" makes up the past and future because it is what we live in! In the past, you lived in the present... In the future, you will live in the present. SO you should always live in the present to get "the most" out of past and future of things... I don't know if that made any sesne haha, sorry, you have NO idea how hard these things I say are to explain in our language! For if you experienced these things yourself you would have more of an understanding, I would assume...
6. All right, it's one theory. It is equally surported by the evidence as all other theories are. Runs into a little trouble with Ockam's Razor but nothing too serious.
Is that a question? Haha.

7. This defines nothing. You are giving something the label of "God" but I could equally give that name to my pen. EXACTLY!! it is part of (what you would consider) "God." We think of "God" as something that's a higher being than us (level of thought), that has some "special powers" to make us happy or mad! Well it does, it IS what makes us happy or mad, it IS higher and lower than us, this thing you call "God" is truly everything, including ourselfs! How can you tell me were not part of god, cause if we werent than we wouldn't be alive... We could say that all the energy in the universe is called "dog" and it would get us just as far. Yah, thats just a "label" we put on things, when you say dog, it still means "god" to me. Cause your reffering to everything that exists, so again it is everything, and you can CALL it anything... Why is it called god and not dog?
This may not be crucial to your point, I don't know if you're a Christian or not, but I want to make it absolutely clear that this goes nowhere towards showing the existance of the God of classical theism.


8. Nope. I expect you are using the term "heart" quite loosely but desire stems from the dorsal striatum, a part of the brain.
Yes.. I suppose I am, when I say "heart" I mean desires... You can connect to your literal heart, but that's another function in your body as the liver... When I say your heart, is the "thoughts" and "feelings" we have directed towards everything. And once again who are you to say if your thoughts or feelings are correct or not, so how would we ever know?


In your response, please try to keep ambiguous words to a minimum. Short answers are preferable but not arbitrary.

Sorry, I tried my best with everything, any questions or things I missed just please tell me, all this explaining is hard to do :P

ashton777
04-06-2009, 09:04 PM
My issue with you, ashton, is that you insist on using terms that have a proper definition in ways that don't match their definition.

For example, you are saying that God is energy, and yet you aren't talking about an omnipotent being. So why use the term god at all? Same with "soul", and even "energy".
Cause, there are no other terms in our language that describe what I do truly mean... I try my best to use every word I say that means something different to most people; with "." And when you ask what do you mean by "that" or "this", I try my best to explain, trust me, look at "my" whole definition of what I think a "soul" is, it's basically everything... If you can find a word that means what I think a "soul" or "God" is... Then by all means show me it please!

Zed
04-07-2009, 08:55 AM
I say soul cause it's the only (known) word I can use at this point in time... I'll try to explain my best!

It is.. In a way, "conscious." Cause one particle of energy has this "soul." It has a vibration of thought. Not as in, "me and the energy particle next to me are going to be put together to make this human..."
It's more of... A plant. That is the easiest example I can give. It runs with thought but not as ours... If you burned a plant it would omit a thought of "pain" (scientists have tests)... So a plant has a soul? Not a human soul like I said, but it's different; it is a level of "conciousness." Now every particle of energy has this different level of "conciousness."

Let's go to your liver and how I think of things... Your human figure and mind itself is created by energy particles. Now if those didn't have a soul what would make up our "thoughts?" Our brain of course! But our brain wouldn't have any thoughts if an energy particle did not know/have experience a "level of thought" of its own!
(If you understand that then move along)
So there is your liver, again, made up of these energy particles... Now what do you see when you say liver in your "mind?" Of course a liver, but thats actually a soul to soul connection since your thoughts are on it... It also has thoughts on you since your liver processes threw your body! If it had no thought than why on earth would it process!? Then you can say well, the brain makes it process! Well of course it doese, but what makes the brain process, the liver and everything connected to the body; which melts down -in the end- to energy... SO energy, and everything energy makes up, uses each other for a "process" of life. That's where "all is one" comes directly from... At least in my point of view. So yes, since energy has a "soul" the liver itself has a "soul" because if that didnt have a "soul" than it would not function properly!


This is the only part that I really take issue with at the moment. Your assumption is that because the sum total of the atoms in, lets use a brain as an example, have the capacity to think, therefore each individual atom must have the cpacity to think on some level. You are saying that one billionth of a brain will have one billionth of the thinking power.

Now imagine a car. It is made up of many different parts, the steering wheel, the chassis, the tyres, the many, many componants of the engine, etc. As a whole, that car is capable of movement. Now this is the important bit: Any one of those componants alone, will not get very far. If I dismantle the car and leave it in pieces then I am going to be disapointed if I try and use it as a vessle of transportation.

This is, in essence, synergy - the whole is greater (and I use that word loosely) than the sum of its parts. An individual atom may have no IQ whatsoever, and yet several billion of them working together can write an essay on human rights.

Just because a brain thinks, it does not mean a brain cell can too.


____

Also, on my point 5 I was refering to how you said earlier that the future could effect the past. You claimed, if I remember correctly, that if you chose not to use a condom and then had a baby you would regret it so strongly that somehow your past self would "feel" that it might be a good idea to use a condom and avoid the baby at all. I think this causes a paradox because once the baby isn't born there is nothing to warn the past self to use a condom so one won't be worn.

This is the classic "shooting my grandfather and stopping my own birth" paradox that always springs up in paradoxes.

____

Also, I think to avoid confusion it would be best if we came up with some new words for these ambiguous terms. Let's say:

"soul" = conself
"energy" = chi
"God" = universe OR all chi. I don't think we need to bring gods into this at all at this stage. Maybe if you wanted to form a cult out of these ideas a little deistic god could fit in but when discussing with atheists it's only gonna get messy.

____

I'm also tempted to put in a request with a mod to move this to the debate section but I won't yet.

ashton777
04-07-2009, 02:41 PM
This is the only part that I really take issue with at the moment. Your assumption is that because the sum total of the atoms in, lets use a brain as an example, have the capacity to think, therefore each individual atom must have the cpacity to think on some level. You are saying that one billionth of a brain will have one billionth of the thinking power. See but your using mathematical terms, it is nothing I can prove to you; if you went "down" the pathway yourself you would probably understand later... Matters how "far/into" you got.

Now imagine a car. It is made up of many different parts, the steering wheel, the chassis, the tyres, the many, many componants of the engine, etc. As a whole, that car is capable of movement. Now this is the important bit: Any one of those componants alone, will not get very far. If I dismantle the car and leave it in pieces then I am going to be disapointed if I try and use it as a vessle of transportation.
Exactly, and without chi then there would be no car at all... Then if you think of a street it has cars on it... Cause without cars why would there be a street in the first place (with stop lights of course)? And if you think of a town; it has streets in it aswell, with cars. But if there were no car parts then there would be no streets, and no towns with these "streets." So what I am saying is that everything works together, and sarts with energy... That you just proved by the sentence above. And if those things didn't have thier "purposes" in life, then it would not be used and dis-exist... Basically, it is a way to put it... What I think is that everything has a purpose... The rivers, the sun, the earth, and every single thing attatched to it... Including us! And I say you can find this purpose if you find your TRUE self... After that things will appear to you.
(sorry if I babled off, just trying to get you more to explain my "beliefs")

This is, in essence, synergy - the whole is greater (and I use that word loosely) than the sum of its parts. It is greater to you... Cause thats how you were learned to think of it... But without one of these parts that whole wouldn't work... SO all the parts are just as great, and make up a great "thing." An individual atom may have no IQ whatsoever, and yet several billion of them working together can write an essay on human rights. IQ, what is a plants IQ haha... But it is the fact that all there parts working together to create us. Our "process of thought" is on a certain "level" of conciousness. SO yes, i would assume there are other levels...

Just because a brain thinks, it does not mean a brain cell can too.
Like I said when you say think... You are saying it as a brain cell would say, "yah let's work together and do this." No, it's a different process of "thought" (not wordly thoughts or setting of goal thoughts) The thought is... Unexplainable until you have either meditated a lot, or seen it within life itself.
____

Also, on my point 5 I was refering to how you said earlier that the future could effect the past. You claimed, if I remember correctly, that if you chose not to use a condom and then had a baby you would regret it so strongly that somehow your past self would "feel" that it might be a good idea to use a condom and avoid the baby at all. I think this causes a paradox because once the baby isn't born there is nothing to warn the past self to use a condom so one won't be worn.
No no no... See it's different, your misunderstanding what I am trying to say... Cause it probably wouldn't "truly" make sense to you until you have experienced it... Again I will try though, might make sense... If I can explain it right.
Have you never had a pulse of fear, threw you, where you KNEW not to do something, but didn't know ON EARTH why.. Most people that feel more of these pulses have more "intuition" as I call it. They know, just by a "6th/third eye" sense that something bad or good will happen... Maybe most don't feel this but I know a lot that have and I aswell have before...
If you havn't had this then you shouldn't keep reading...
NOW this is hard to explain: Since all is one with chi, past, future, present, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE, that means everything has already been played out in every direction of every way cause chi knows what all is and how all works for it makes it happen. People have predicted the future before, by tapping into the universes chi. But I think everything has it's own chi, and will sense if something "big" that effects us will happen... Once you keep going into the present and going with feelings (even if they are stupid) and connecting to self, the more your aware of your chi, and your life... So the more you do what you feel, things will rapidly change in life; you are "transforming" your old chi to newer chi. Good WILL happen and A LOT of BAD will happen. But what we learn along this pathway is that the bad things that do happen, are lessons from our chi to teach us what IS right and wrong. That's when you start to enter "oneness within self." And this all takes some time. It just matteres how far you keep going, or if you hold on to everything you have cause you can't "see" the good to come out of it... This is all connected to past, present, future...
But like I said since all is within "one" then our own desire of our self wants to shout out at us, or tell us soemthing new... it just matters if your listening or not, and slowly stops when we "mature." I guess you could say you did feel this when you were a kid.
This is the classic "shooting my grandfather and stopping my own birth" paradox that always springs up in paradoxes.
Again, thinking of what I am saying wrongly.
____

Also, I think to avoid confusion it would be best if we came up with some new words for these ambiguous terms. Let's say:

"soul" = conself
"energy" = chi
"God" = universe OR all chi. I don't think we need to bring gods into this at all at this stage. Maybe if you wanted to form a cult out of these ideas a little deistic god could fit in but when discussing with atheists it's only gonna get messy.
Great, except of conself... I'll just say inner self, or feelings for chi, and everything connected to it.

____

I'm also tempted to put in a request with a mod to move this to the debate section but I won't yet.
I would suppose that be a good idea, I just didn't know where else to post this... But again... If that does happen I will most likely get flammed out of my mind and not be able to handle everyones "matureness" at once.. (you are doing fine, I love these convos, it makes me think clearer...)
If you want to go ahead.

Zed
04-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Ok. I think I vaguely understand the solutions to the apparent time paradoxes now. I'm a little bit worried about how close this is getting to a theistic God but we'll worry about empiricalism later. I want to get logic out of the way first.

I think you're misunderstanding my argument on the first bit. I am saying that the motion of the car is binary. Either the car will go, or it won't. If there is a piece missing it will not go. The pieces themselves have no intrinsic propensity towards movement, you need the thing as a whole.

Now then, what you have said earlier is that humans have a innerself and also a atom has an inner self, although it may be of a different nature to that of a human. I am saying that a human only has an inner self when all the pieces come together, if you remove componants from the human it will have no inner self at all. It will be dead. I don't see any reason to suspect that an individual particle has its own inner self.

ashton777
04-07-2009, 07:26 PM
Ok. I think I vaguely understand the solutions to the apparent time paradoxes now. Yah; like I said you can't TRUELY understand enless you have "witnessed" what I am tlaking about yourself. I'm a little bit worried about how close this is getting to a theistic God but we'll worry about empiricalism later. Wan't to explain about theistic? I want to get logic out of the way first. Understandable, but it really isn't logic that makes this happen, it is quite the opposite.

I think you're misunderstanding my argument on the first bit. I am saying that the motion of the car is binary. Either the car will go, or it won't. If there is a piece missing it will not go. The pieces themselves have no intrinsic propensity towards movement, you need the thing as a whole.
Yes true; but as you and I said earlier, if you don't have the parts, it wouldn't be a whole. And to have each part means that there all very important, on us to! So if one part didn't function then we would just be
-non exictent- and thats what I love about it... It's so perfect, yet we don't normally understand what perfection is... We think of it as everything is fine, going well, nothing to "complain" about- but perfection is just in every single object that you see, because it is visible there to you...
If one thing was wrong, if we were a little closer or farther from sun we would die, so what makes the world so evenly turn around it? And that goes for everything else in existence, why does it do it, if it had no point it would become "extinct." Then we look at the world like everything else and pout it into our own "terms." Thats where our brain comes in... We think of things in a manner of what people of the past created! We calculate if soemthing will land where, or how things "work." But how we think is only a part of the whole Universe itself; without IT we wouldn't have things to make into mathematical terms... We wan't to understand things in our own way, soo, they show in our own way...
This is hard to explain aswell so bare with me on this... The people who founded math, or founded anything of what we think about, and how we think of it, they found themselves; and through what? The Universe of course! We looked at things and "created" our own way of thinking to "understand" what things are around us. We think it just revolves around the human because we have what we witness of a mind.
But there is no way for me to prove you wrong, or for you to do the same to me, that everything has it's own inner sense... Until you actual experience it.
All=One, but the fact is that we are here now... If those people have founded there "own way" into the world/to understand of things, what makes you think that way is yours also? You could/SHOULD be thinking "your own way," and to do this you connect to life and your inner self. learn more about it through your own "teachings", and things will be shown the way they should be, cause its how YOU were supposed to understand the world..


Now then, what you have said earlier is that humans have a innerself and also a atom has an inner self, although it may be of a different nature to that of a human. I am saying that a human only has an inner self when all the pieces come together, if you remove componants from the human it will have no inner self at all. Yes thats cause the human becomes non existent, just as a car would, and whatever "bactierias" or things that are left will be used for something else-but if these things/chi had no "level" of awareness, then I dont understand how we would... Or anything else would, and if they did how on earth could you explain they existed? You couldn't, enless you experienced or witnessed this your self. It will be dead. I don't see any reason to suspect that an individual particle has its own inner self.
But it IS all the reason, cause if they didn't have inner awareness, we wouldn't; these "pieces" that create us would HAVE to understand some type of thought, or like I said, things wouldn't even function in the first place!
IF things didn't understand that of whats around themselves, (or didn't have some type of awareness) then theres no way for them to work together to create the WHOLE in itself.. So what would that leave if they couldn't work together to create us, the universe, the cars; it would leave.. nothing... The fact that something is here now, is proof "in my way of thinking" that everything has life/inner awareness.

Automaton
04-07-2009, 08:50 PM
no no no. They don't "think" anything. If you go down to the tiny details, you'll find it's all attraction and chemical reactions. They don't "think" "oh I'll join with that hydrogen atom", they just do. And eventually, things evolved and became us. The parts added on to each other. This is sounding way too theistic to me. You also use irreducible complexity and the goldilocks enigma as your arguments (the latter of which means everything being perfect in every way). These can be explained away easily.

Zed
04-08-2009, 03:59 AM
A theistic God is a conscious entity who is entirely good and loving, knows everything, and can do anything.


But it IS all the reason, cause if they didn't have inner awareness, we wouldn't; these "pieces" that create us would HAVE to understand some type of thought, or like I said, things wouldn't even function in the first place!
IF things didn't understand that of whats around themselves, (or didn't have some type of awareness) then theres no way for them to work together to create the WHOLE in itself.. So what would that leave if they couldn't work together to create us, the universe, the cars; it would leave.. nothing... The fact that something is here now, is proof "in my way of thinking" that everything has life/inner awareness.

Does a gear stick on its own have any idea what it is like to travel at 80mph? This is my point - you don't need all the little things to be capable of doing what the big thing does as a whole. It is possible for humans to be conscious without the individual pieces being conscious.

New Generation
04-08-2009, 05:09 AM
So let me sum this up:

If you have the WILL, positive thinking then you will succeed. Will is everything. Btw I believe in soul energy. When you die you don't know where you will go but some believe that you will be transferred into another human with no memory or animal.

Notice the bold WILL. If you have the will, you will succed in whatever you do. NO point in arguing. End of story.

Every brain is capable of defeating another brain.

Zed
04-08-2009, 05:56 AM
Every brain is capable of defeating another brain.

What about the brain at the bottom? Or is it more like rock paper scissors?

And I have the WILL to argue with you so logically you must be wrong.

Automaton
04-08-2009, 07:37 AM
So let me sum this up:

If you have the WILL, positive thinking then you will succeed. Will is everything. Btw I believe in soul energy. When you die you don't know where you will go but some believe that you will be transferred into another human with no memory or animal.

Notice the bold WILL. If you have the will, you will succed in whatever you do. NO point in arguing. End of story.

Every brain is capable of defeating another brain.

Did you really just post that?

Also, Ashton, you obviously don't know your physics and/or chemistry. Cells don't think anything. They join/bond/separate and cause chemical reactions. Eventually when enough build up, it forms life of some sort. It's all, in esscence, just things building on each other and forming us, but that doesn't mean that the original "chi" had a mind of it's own.

Überschall
04-08-2009, 10:45 AM
So let me sum this up:

If you have the WILL, positive thinking then you will succeed. Will is everything. Btw I believe in soul energy. When you die you don't know where you will go but some believe that you will be transferred into another human with no memory or animal.

Notice the bold WILL. If you have the will, you will succed in whatever you do. NO point in arguing. End of story.

Every brain is capable of defeating another brain.

No, you can't always get what you want.
You can't always get what you want.
You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes you find
you may get what you need.

Automaton
04-08-2009, 02:11 PM
what if you need to get what you want?

Überschall
04-08-2009, 02:42 PM
Then there's a 50/50 chance depending on how important it is.

ashton777
04-08-2009, 07:43 PM
Omg, am I not saying anything clearly!? I never said they literally think, the fact that they bond and move around is a type of knowing whats going on.

(and no about the theistic god.)

New Generation: I don't know what your reading or where you got that from; out of what I said..? This soul energy is not what I think of things as either, all your talking about it more - law of attraction, and pttuing "will" or "mind power" into things that you can see and you want... But again, how do you know you truley want those things, there could, and is something esle that can make you 100x happier. You just havn't seen it since you are blocking your true self with dis-honest wants and needs.

ScHall; true, you can't get what you always want. (obviously) Until you know exactly what your full desire intent is to get; thats the thing that makes you "100x happier." And to find that full desire intent, you have to find your inner/true self. When you know what you want with full desire than your connected to... Something unimaginably different, and you learn when you search for this tresure, for it teaches you lessons along the way.

Automation: I have no way to prove you wrong. Or you to prove me right... Saying look at science wont help either, they can't prove if an energy molecule doesn't have type of thought...

Automaton
04-08-2009, 09:59 PM
Omg, am I not saying anything clearly!? I never said they literally think, the fact that they bond and move around is a type of knowing whats going on.

(and no about the theistic god.)

New Generation: I don't know what your reading or where you got that from; out of what I said..? This soul energy is not what I think of things as either, all your talking about it more - law of attraction, and pttuing "will" or "mind power" into things that you can see and you want... But again, how do you know you truley want those things, there could, and is something esle that can make you 100x happier. You just havn't seen it since you are blocking your true self with dis-honest wants and needs.

ScHall; true, you can't get what you always want. (obviously) Until you know exactly what your full desire intent is to get; thats the thing that makes you "100x happier." And to find that full desire intent, you have to find your inner/true self. When you know what you want with full desire than your connected to... Something unimaginably different, and you learn when you search for this tresure, for it teaches you lessons along the way.

Automation: I have no way to prove you wrong. Or you to prove me right... Saying look at science wont help either, they can't prove if an energy molecule doesn't have type of thought...

If you're saying just because science can't prove it, you're pretty much saying everything could be false - nothing is fact. If that's the case then gravity is a myth and there is no sun; it's a giant lamp in the sky. They may not be able to prove it doesn't have thought, but they can prove why the thought isn't necessary. There is no thought needed for the chi to attract. It's all physics. Think of it as an elastic band (not entirely the same concept). When it stretches, it doesn't will itself to snap back, it just does because the laws of physics say it does. If you deny this, you deny science as a whole for a method of discovery and in turn everything you know. Your argument of a cell's mind/soul is getting repetitive, and it's been blown to shreds by Ash, others, and now me. Give it up, and move on to your other points.

New Generation
04-09-2009, 06:42 AM
The thing is. Will is the power to go on, never give up. The brain is capable of learning a lot. Even a dumbass kid who then learns to go on, have the will to succeed. Then he will succeed.But it also has to do with motivation, but that's just human needs.

Mantha
04-09-2009, 06:43 AM
The thing is. Will is the power to go on, never give up. The brain is capable of learning a lot. Even a dumbass kid who then learns to go on, have the will to succeed. Then he will succeed.But it also has to do with motivation, but that's just human needs.
What are you talking about? Motivation isn't one of the human needs.

Zed
04-09-2009, 06:59 AM
Omg, am I not saying anything clearly!? I never said they literally think, the fact that they bond and move around is a type of knowing whats going on.

(and no about the theistic god.)

New Generation: I don't know what your reading or where you got that from; out of what I said..? This soul energy is not what I think of things as either, all your talking about it more - law of attraction, and pttuing "will" or "mind power" into things that you can see and you want... But again, how do you know you truley want those things, there could, and is something esle that can make you 100x happier. You just havn't seen it since you are blocking your true self with dis-honest wants and needs.

ScHall; true, you can't get what you always want. (obviously) Until you know exactly what your full desire intent is to get; thats the thing that makes you "100x happier." And to find that full desire intent, you have to find your inner/true self. When you know what you want with full desire than your connected to... Something unimaginably different, and you learn when you search for this tresure, for it teaches you lessons along the way.

Automation: I have no way to prove you wrong. Or you to prove me right... Saying look at science wont help either, they can't prove if an energy molecule doesn't have type of thought...

So the whole thing about particles and thought was really just saying that they obey the laws of physics?

So far I can't find anything that you've said which is different from either comonly accepted scientific theory or a current hypothesis which cannot be tested but is as equally likely as anything else.

Basically your philosophy is science but dressed up in ambiguous religious words.


Edit: On reflection I think maybe you're suggesting that a form of meditation is necessary in order to work out what you actually want. That would be newish.

OGrilla
04-09-2009, 07:10 AM
Edit: On reflection I think maybe you're suggesting that a form of meditation is necessary in order to work out what you actually want. That would be newish.

Not new at all. It's something I've advocated for a while and I got it from my own dabblings into new age philosophical bullshit. I've seen/heard this concept a lot and I perform it as often as I can. But all the stupid explanations are unnecessary and detract from the obvious utility of the technique. I mean, it shouldn't come as a surprise that when you quiet down all thoughts except for your subconscious, the most deeply held/felt ideas, etc will be made clear to you. Meditation is a way of relaxing after/before your daily sensor overload(due to living in the modern world) and listening to yourself by blocking out distractions. It's not mystical in any sense and doesn't need explanation.

Zed
04-09-2009, 07:36 AM
I would disagree, personally. I think that thinking things through quietly will change what you want into something more desirable/realistic, but you would still have wanted what you wanted before. Right now I want a bar of chocolate. Nothing will change the fact that on this day at 2:45 Zed wanted a bar of chocolate, however if I 'meditate' on it for a while I might decide that the health benefits of not eating the chocolate outweigh the temporary serotonin boost I would get if I did eat it. History would record that at 2:50 Zed did not want the chocolate but the origional fact (that at 2:45 Zed did want a bar of chocolate) remains unchanged.

OGrilla
04-09-2009, 07:52 AM
You must know that's not how it works. He's not saying to use meditation to find out what you want from day to day, hour to hour. It's the "soul's" desires. It's what you realize would satisfy you completely. What you truly want with your life. It's supposed to be a spiritual understanding you achieve at a deeper level than your conscious, muddied and confused self.

Zed
04-09-2009, 07:55 AM
Ah. There's the mystical stuff we were missing. And for those of us who don't believe in the existence of souls? I still think that what appears to be the desires of the soul is just you having thought about it more thoroughly. Lots of things seem very different when you actually stop and look at them.

OGrilla
04-09-2009, 08:03 AM
I don't believe in a soul. I'm an atheist with no superstitious leanings of any sort. I was merely interpreting for him. As I said, it's very obvious (without any religious mumbo-jumbo), that slowing down to think about something more thoroughly and in a different light will lead to a greater understanding of that thing. But he takes it a step further into belief and supernatural designs, etc. and that's where it goes to hell. If he would leave his "advice" at the meditation phase alone, he would receive a warmer welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

ashton777
04-10-2009, 09:41 PM
Alright I am done trying to explain this thing about thought with atoms, you can say you won, or w/e thats fine by me, I just cannot explain it anymore because you would have to "witness" it yourself...

OGrilla: It's fine your an atheist, keep going with what you FEEL is right and patterens will unravel. (pathways/roads) -- In my... "religon?" haha, thats funny, I find it nothing as a religon or belief of any sort, just something I learned throughout time... Maybe I'll be shown soemthing new, probably...


And Zed; Ogrilla was rgiht in a way to what I was saying. You don't meditate on a subject specific for what you want to find out. You just try to relax your brain all the time, as much as you can remember, so in a way constant meditation; but its about living in present time, cause when your in present time and you are meditating, you will "notice" and do what you feel is right when time comes... The more you connect to your inner self/meditate in the present you become one with who you are... You will find out what you want, even if you think you know; theres always more. But when things appear, or you feel a nudge to do something, do it! Thats the first step, learning these urges, cause it's from your inner self, and once you actually understand that and go with it more, you will find out more, and understand how life can be a lot different.

Zed
04-11-2009, 10:43 AM
Fair enough. I still hold that this is nothing more than a bit of reasonable philosophical cosmology and cognitive psychology dressed up in religious-sounding words but whatever you want to call it is fine by me. As long as you don't want to bring God into this I think I broadly agree.

ashton777
04-11-2009, 01:42 PM
I didn't try to make it religous sounding; sorry for the misinturpretations. And it is an every day thing that all know but don't really "use."