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Tawnik
03-14-2010, 10:57 AM
Ive actually created the boxes after I animated the guy, I didnt know they'll be there.I might add the arms but Im not sure,

http://tawnik.xf.cz/jumper.mov

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbb_AGloqbo

C&C please

Tortuga
03-14-2010, 11:52 AM
Honestly, i think you can do better.

The jumps seemed to lack force and it looked as though the gravity was a bit weak, if you just heavy spaced that a bit more than i think that would solve that problem, maybe add a bit more anticipation to the jumps?

And the landings weren't particularly good, when he lands you need to add more of a reaction, in the knees, and a little jerk or something in the upper body to show that he suddenly stopped moving.

Miccool
03-14-2010, 12:14 PM
Well it was nice and smooth, it just didn't look natural. Then again I understand how hard animating 3d like this is. btw offtopic question, do they have an onion type feature in 3dsmax or maya, or w/e you use?

AsSeenOnTV
03-14-2010, 12:49 PM
He kind of stopped and hovered over the second box a little. You seem to be lacking flow somehow.

Tawnik
03-14-2010, 01:17 PM
Honestly, i think you can do better.

No, not now, Im trying though, but I still ****ing feel weird, I hate the pose to pose approach in some animation it isnt that painful, for example when I was doing the box lift, it was quite alright, but when I want to do stuff like this it just sucks, Im learning 3d animation for almost 1 year right now and the animations look STILL SHITTY !!!!!!!! GOD HELP ME OUT OF THIS CRAPPYNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The jumps seemed to lack force and it looked as though the gravity was a bit weak, if you just heavy spaced that a bit more than i think that would solve that problem, maybe add a bit more anticipation to the jumps?

And the landings weren't particularly good, when he lands you need to add more of a reaction, in the knees, and a little jerk or something in the upper body to show that he suddenly stopped moving.

I have a feeling, when I watch any animation when the timing isnt good, theres something in my head that tells me, this is wrong, this is wrong ! I have the same feeling when watching this animation I 100% agree to your comments, the jump lacks anticipation, I have to stop using pose to pose or I will lose everything that I have built in 5 years of animating in Flash.I dont want to calculate the timing I want to feel it again, but its really hard to do that in Maya :( because of stuff and all the rotation, gimbal locks (if you dont know what it is, google that) thats the biggest pain in my ... because it drives me mad when the character doesnt do what I want it to do, the animation is always un-eased and the timing sucks.I see all of this but Im just too tired of the whole thing so I dont want to fix it I want to show it and do something else and I really hate myself for this because I cant do better animations, I feel uncomfortable and I rush a lot of things, this is killing me, I want to learn the god damn 3d animation approach so I can enjoy animating again (!!!!) I dont want the software to ruin my passion, I mean, I dont want my "un-skillness" in Maya to ruin it.

There has to be a better way how to do animations, but since I dont have a mentor and I just try out new things and new workflows I can just wait and hope that I will win this battle.

You know, I no longer think about the animation principles, I think about how to do that, which is bad :( and makes me sad.


Well it was nice and smooth, it just didn't look natural. Then again I understand how hard animating 3d like this is. btw offtopic question, do they have an onion type feature in 3dsmax or maya, or w/e you use?

Yes, thats what I was trying to say.. its harder than you might think.Yes, you have "ghosting" which sucks, onion skin was better.What I use in Maya is "Motion trail" its a line, a line thats formed from points, the points represent the pivot (middle) point of the selected object in time.


He kind of stopped and hovered over the second box a little. You seem to be lacking flow somehow.

The lack of flow is caused because of the pose to pose approach, I hate it, but I dont know any better approach/workflow right now.The previous workflows that I had or tried were even worse, Im getting slightly better, but the improvement is too slow..

Well, pose to pose is quite okay for acting, but as I now think it cant be used in cases like this.

If anyone could give me a hand and tell me what should I try or do better, please do it, Im really struggling with this.

Tortuga
03-14-2010, 01:32 PM
No no no no no no no no.
How can you say you are even remotely not epic when you've made beuties such as these?

http://tawnik.xf.cz/robot5P.mov
http://tawnik.xf.cz/normantheknight.mov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmsU07f-sSs

Zed
03-14-2010, 02:20 PM
Cut frames one and two. They're repeated and the shakiness is distracting.

Now look at frames seven and eight. In frame seven you can see which way the foot is about to be pulled - along the line of the shin. Then in frame eight it goes wrong because it's moved backwards. This change in direction is the beginning of what's throwing it all off. Everything needs to be constantly moving forwards. The real problem, I think, is that he's not getting enough horizontal movement in the air. If I'm right about this, he needs to land somewhere around where the second box finishes. Keep his lift-off leg straight for a frame or so longer too, and then make it so that instead of landing as vertically as he is in frames 20 and 21, he lands both feet at about the point he's now at in frame 19. That will give you time to anticipate the second jump without losing momentum because you can be bending the legs while his body keeps moving through vertical, and then extend as it comes out the other side.

Also, the body looks too bent in frame 23 compared to the two either side of it (this way of showing videos is awesome btw. It's so ccable).

Frames 26 through 36 show an insane amount of momentum loss. I think that whole second jump will be perfect if you move him back a load further. Maybe two frames more of followthrough would be nice too.

I hope that all made sense. I also hope it was right, or I'm going to look soooo stupid.

Tawnik
03-14-2010, 02:27 PM
Thank you, but I really wish you sent this animation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcdp-Cu1gzI because thats my personal favorite :)

Anyways, I've just re-watched the Jeff Lews dvds and Im going to try out his method, he calls it the hybrid method, its not pose to pose, its more like a straight ahead, he doesnt key every frame but every second, or third, depending on what he needs, then he adds the inbetweens, that might be a lot more fun than this.I hope it will work, we'll see, I will try and do post another animation as soon as possible.

Thanks Tortuga =)

Zed, Im sorry you've posted at the same time as I did, I didnt know :)

You're being really helpful !! Thank you.
7-8f, Im a dumbass
the first "jump" isnt "jump" hes supposed to be standing on his arms, check this out, Ive stopped typing and edited the animation so you can see (Ive also changed the feet position on frames 0-6, now it looks better but I will have to tweak that, I know why it looked bad and I know what you mean by everything has to be moving forward, you're very good Zed ! Really, thanks, you're being very helpful :)
http://tawnik.xf.cz/jumper2.mov

now it might look even more shitty, because when hes standing on his arms, then he has to jump from that position back to the standing position, so his body should get higher as hes jumping off the first box and he doesnt do that, he just bends and goes down, thats awkward, now I notice that, it wasnt that obvious when the arms werent there.. I also notice the jerkyness, the arms arent really polished, they're there just to show you the idea.

I dont really understand this "Keep his lift-off leg straight for a frame or so longer too, and then make it so that instead of landing as vertically as he is in frames 20 and 21" could you please explain it a lil bit more ? :)
but I know what you mean by the following, the legs would bend and the body wouldnt stop moving, that makes sense, thats why he does the "flip" (or whatever you want to call that) because he wants to create the momentum for the bigger jump, right ? And heres the problem, my workflow is "create poses, then add inbetweens, tweak" theres no time for considering momentum, thats why it lacks flow, its the pose to poseness, it sucks, I hate it, its really good for acting but it sucks for action, now I know !! HEUREKA !! I definitely have to do this kind of animations with straight ahead or the jeff lews "hybrid" method so I can keep the momentum !!!!! THATS IT !

and please, what do you mean by "move him back a load further"


Apart from that Ive noted this was really helpful to me, your comments are great, thank you !

AsSeenOnTV
03-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Try not animating between poses, just frame by frame.

Tawnik
03-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Try not animating between poses, just frame by frame.

I wanted to do that, but people were laughing when I said that, I thought its bad to do that in 3d, besides that my computer lags a lot, the character has like 200 things that can be keyed at 1 frame, if I have 30 frame animation with key on every frame and every controler, thats 60 000 keyes, how many keys do you need in Flash for 30 frames ? 100 ? And Maya isnt 2d software, my notebook inst that hardcore.

I will try out the hybrid method, it seems like a good choice, at least for now.

Zed
03-14-2010, 03:51 PM
You're being really helpful !! Thank you.
7-8f, Im a dumbass
the first "jump" isnt "jump" hes supposed to be standing on his arms, check this out, Ive stopped typing and edited the animation so you can see (Ive also changed the feet position on frames 0-6, now it looks better but I will have to tweak that, I know why it looked bad and I know what you mean by everything has to be moving forward, you're very good Zed ! Really, thanks, you're being very helpful :)
http://tawnik.xf.cz/jumper2.mov

That's looking way better. Awesome.


now it might look even more shitty, because when hes standing on his arms, then he has to jump from that position back to the standing position, so his body should get higher as hes jumping off the first box and he doesnt do that, he just bends and goes down, thats awkward, now I notice that, it wasnt that obvious when the arms werent there.. I also notice the jerkyness, the arms arent really polished, they're there just to show you the idea.

I dont really understand this "Keep his lift-off leg straight for a frame or so longer too, and then make it so that instead of landing as vertically as he is in frames 20 and 21" could you please explain it a lil bit more ? :)

When I say he lands too vertical, what I mean that if he comes down earlier in the rotation, he can get more time on the ground and therefore can have his legs bending longer before the next jump. Something like this (http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx353/Zed31415/Slowfliptransition.gif) (if you'll excuse pivoteering and shaky arms).

The "keep the leg straight" bit was separate. I think another frame or so of straight leg during the first jump before bending it in would look better.


and please, what do you mean by "move him back a load further"

I mean the second jump just sort of stops in mid-air, like he was moving backwards but then lost all his momentum. He needs to land much further along than he is doing.

I'm glad you find all this useful. Thinking about this sort of thing helps me too :)

Tawnik
03-14-2010, 04:08 PM
okay okay, I get it, I thought its this I was just unsure :) it makes sense and Thinking about others animations is great way how to get yourself really better, I used to be more active here I was commenting every day on every new animation but Ive changed, somehow, I want to come back, all this talking brings me back the the passion and to animate, I feel really excited, creating animations would be nothing without having people to share them with, I really love stickpageportal and I enjoy talking to you guys, I really like you :D

dawG
03-28-2010, 04:22 PM
Good, yo .

GreenSheen
03-28-2010, 06:33 PM
As I see it Tawnik:
You = Win

ani
03-28-2010, 09:18 PM
Try to avoid bumping dawG.