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View Full Version : Major Balance change next patch!



CRAZY JAY
11-01-2012, 05:40 PM
To let everyone know in advance we are doing a very important balance change. We will be lowering the health of miners dramatically, increasing there attack damage, and adding health buff for miners to the "Miner Hustle" ability.

The reason behind this, is we do not want the best strategy in the game to also be the easiest, and we intend to have a more interesting and dynamic early game. At the moment a player can simply build, Miner, Miner, Miner , Miner, Miner. Oh they attacking me? Castle archer, Miner, Miner, Miner. This is not ideal. And a player building purely economic should be punished by the enemy that has scouted and countered you with pure offense.

We think this new patch will create more dynamic openings, and require scouting and constant battle, hence a overall better game.
Adding the health buff to miner hustle will also solve the issue of miners being TOO squishy in the late game.

kidinvisible
11-01-2012, 05:49 PM
I'm not sure if I like the idea of miners having lower health or LOVE IT
So when are we expecting the patch Jay?

Tecness2
11-01-2012, 05:49 PM
To let everyone know in advance we are doing a very important balance change. We will be lowering the health of miners dramatically, increasing there attack damage, and adding health buff for miners to the "Miner Hustle" ability.

The reason behind this, is we do not want the best strategy in the game to also be the easiest, and we intend to have a more interesting and dynamic early game. At the moment a player can simply build, Miner, Miner, Miner , Miner, Miner. Oh they attacking me? Castle archer, Miner, Miner, Miner. This is not ideal. And a player building purely economic should be punished by the enemy that has scouted and countered you with pure offense.

We think this new patch will create more dynamic openings, and require scouting and constant battle, hence a overall better game.
Adding the health buff to miner hustle will also solve the issue of miners being TOO squishy in the late game.
Quick question. Does miner hustle do anything for mana income? If not, would it be possible to add it? I find, those tough games where I need to use amazing control and abilities, I'm short on mana, even with 5 miners on it.

MiamiBigAL
11-01-2012, 06:07 PM
Strange...the best strategies are rush strategies. If it were up to me I would actually buff miner. Teching is no longer viable.

CRAZY JAY
11-01-2012, 06:15 PM
Quick question. Does miner hustle do anything for mana income? If not, would it be possible to add it? I find, those tough games where I need to use amazing control and abilities, I'm short on mana, even with 5 miners on it.

Miner Hustle only increases the walking speed of the miner, and now health of the miner: The passive income levels will increase mana and gold. However if you think about it, if you get miner hustle you will need less miners on gold and can put more on mana. So it does benfit mana just not directly.

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CRAZY JAY
11-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Strange...the best strategies are rush strategies. If it were up to me I would actually buff miner. Teching is no longer viable.

The best strategies are not rush strategies however we need to find a balance so that Rush, balanced or economic will all work, atm, the only thing that works is Economic, because like I said Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Castle archer, Miner, Miner, Miner. is not how the game is intended.

Tecness2
11-01-2012, 06:28 PM
Okay, another one. The whole "SUPER MINIMIZE THE SCREEN" thing. Can that be turned off? :p

MiamiBigAL
11-01-2012, 07:14 PM
I'd like to play you then Crazy Jay, because I haven't found any eco-rusher even remotely successful against me. I am guessing you probably use your strategy combined with a wall, but even then I am not so sure it is the superior one. Possibly fancy a game now if you're on?

Dracus94
11-01-2012, 09:56 PM
THANK YOU! I like my miners squishy.
Though I do find that if you don't know how to hold them off, rush builds are already a bit... dare I say, imba?
I realize what's happening and that it has to change, but people may become more frustrated by rushing...

P.S. Are you planning to tell the player when they're lagging out? I'm guilty of turtling pretty hard, and if I had a message pop up, maybe I could prevent another unnecessary defeat.

CRAZY JAY
11-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Okay, another one. The whole "SUPER MINIMIZE THE SCREEN" thing. Can that be turned off? :p

We are working on tweeking it so it only happens in extreme situations of slow computationalisim.

CRAZY JAY
11-02-2012, 01:53 AM
I'd like to play you then Crazy Jay, because I haven't found any eco-rusher even remotely successful against me. I am guessing you probably use your strategy combined with a wall, but even then I am not so sure it is the superior one. Possibly fancy a game now if you're on?

Please share your strat to counter it? whats your user name and rating.

CRAZY JAY
11-02-2012, 01:55 AM
THANK YOU! I like my miners squishy.
Though I do find that if you don't know how to hold them off, rush builds are already a bit... dare I say, imba?
I realize what's happening and that it has to change, but people may become more frustrated by rushing...

P.S. Are you planning to tell the player when they're lagging out? I'm guilty of turtling pretty hard, and if I had a message pop up, maybe I could prevent another unnecessary defeat.

Yes if its not already done, we will have the lagging out messege.

Miner squishy, keep in mind they will be squishy off the start however will gain more health later on. Not to mention they get a big buff in attack damage. before the miner hustle.

PS triple post dont ban me!

300noob
11-02-2012, 07:10 AM
So... i suppose i could consider the miners as slow swordwrath?
oh and another thing, why chaos miners not only have regeneration but also more hp than the order miners?

CrimsonX
11-02-2012, 08:49 PM
dude.... not a big fan of the new miner health thing... its changed the game to where it feels like a cheap shot in the groin every time i play... i was ranked number 14 when i got on today after the patch and played, saw the patch, didnt think it would be that big of a deal. However, right after the game started it was all out rush, which is usually fine, but since i never use castle archer, and my strategy requires my miners to take a little bit of punishment, i get my ass kicked... Also i don't go all out economic, i guess im what you would call balanced, also i have a strategy that beats all out economic almost every time. unless im playing someone like frozenfury, although im not sure he uses all out economic, but its more economic then rush, that's for sure.

Anyways, this is me pleading to have it changed back : ) also i can show you how i beat all out economic if you like. Even though I'm being a crybaby right now, thank you very much for allowing me to play in your beta and all the work youve done on this AWESOME game!

300noob
11-03-2012, 06:28 AM
Ok i having the problem with the miners and stuff....the lowered health leave me with no choice but to do FULL early rush and that usually lead to who beat the other player early rush force win the game because as soon as you beat them go for miners.I got beat twice, have had a hard time to get back to rank 30....and another thing, why ALL game i play are either in halloween map or castle??? the maps are freaking short.

Bladed Fire
11-03-2012, 07:34 AM
Is the incoming gold of miner increasing?

300noob
11-03-2012, 08:56 AM
As far as i can see now, the dominating strategy is early rush...i think that need some more tweaks. Making the early rush the strategy to go with in every single freaking game is not good at all.

kidinvisible
11-03-2012, 06:37 PM
As far as i can see now, the dominating strategy is early rush...i think that need some more tweaks. Making the early rush the strategy to go with in every single freaking game is not good at all.

Which in my opinion puts Chaos at a disadvantage, because the only thing they can build early game when order builds 1 swordswrath 1 archer is 5 crawlers, which generally wouldn't beat swordswrath and an archer early game.

Chaos can't build a range unit straight away because of mana, and if they could they would still not have poison early game.
I think Chaos has one of two options to this update, 5 crawlers or miners and castle archers. - And the second option was meant to not be a strategy because with the new update, but in my opinion has actually led to this strategy likely being used.

Reiniat
11-03-2012, 11:49 PM
We are working on tweeking it so it only happens in extreme situations of slow computationalisim.
HAHAHAAHAH like mine!!, its ok anyway the game runs smooth...


The best strategies are not rush strategies however we need to find a balance so that Rush, balanced or economic will all work, atm, the only thing that works is Economic, because like I said Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Castle archer, Miner, Miner, Miner. is not how the game is intended.
I complained about that early on, but then i found a way to overpass this EASILY (and no, its not create more miners), still i've never seen anyone using my strategy so i dont want to tell it just yet :)


Which in my opinion puts Chaos at a disadvantage, because the only thing they can build early game when order builds 1 swordswrath 1 archer is 5 crawlers, which generally wouldn't beat swordswrath and an archer early game.
Chaos can't build a range unit straight away because of mana, and if they could they would still not have poison early game.
I think Chaos has one of two options to this update, 5 crawlers or miners and castle archers. - And the second option was meant to not be a strategy because with the new update, but in my opinion has actually led to this strategy likely being used.
Thats wrong because Chaos can create ONE poisoning turret and it will obly the enemy to garrison to heal, and then just create an Axe guy (dont know his real name) and it will kill any Swordwraths or Archidons throwed at him, so the Empire player must create a Speartan and that will require enough time for the battle to become against him and for the Chaos to start a his own rush (or take the middle tower, or began the arms race).
I lost against that strategy a few times, then i learned to overpass it, but it requires me to create a Speartan early one, wich will left me uncapable to Blitzkrieg (unless the enemy is really dumb).
Still i dont know enough about Chaos to be sure.


As far as i can see now, the dominating strategy is early rush...i think that need some more tweaks. Making the early rush the strategy to go with in every single freaking game is not good at all.
Everytime someone Blitzkriegs at me he ends up fleeing off of my own Blietzkrieg :), so thats the best counter strategy, if you make him enough damage he will retreath and you can begin the arms race.

(Blietzkrieg=early rush, or maybe early swarm sounds better...?)

Brandonn
11-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Good Work and Good Luck Man!

-Brandon

MiamiBigAL
11-04-2012, 06:42 AM
Please share your strat to counter it? whats your user name and rating.

I'm rank 8, rating 1817 at the moment, record 90/4. Add 310 if you want to play me and do tests. Going economy was never a viable strategy, and now it definitely isn't at all.

The whole point is grabbing the middle tower for income and force you to go castle archer (damaging your economy), and therefore shifting the economy into my favour. If you don't go early rush, you lose the economy game and the early units game at the same time. A wall allows you to cut off the enemy's second-tier gold supply while ramping up your own (especially coupled with some archers).

Econ is just suicide in my opinion.

MrSticky
11-04-2012, 03:25 PM
i like it.

DragonFrost
11-04-2012, 08:53 PM
COME ON. This person's mass economy strategy (5 miners) managed to kill my spearton >.>. Although I killed 2 miners. I STILL THINK THIS NEW PATCH TOTALLY MADE MINERS OVERPOWERED.

300noob
11-04-2012, 11:24 PM
Everytime someone Blitzkriegs at me he ends up fleeing off of my own Blietzkrieg :), so thats the best counter strategy, if you make him enough damage he will retreath and you can begin the arms race.

(Blietzkrieg=early rush, or maybe early swarm sounds better...?)
uhm thanks but that doesn't work very well...
and no the opponent try to rush me to dead not arms race

Dracus94
11-05-2012, 04:12 PM
Okay well. I've come to the conclusion that economy based play is the way to go. Rushing can still be held off just with a single castle archer. There's really no other way to play the game than to go for the long-term, because rushing still isn't worth it.
What I'm thinking is to increase the time it takes to get a castle-archer out.

300noob
11-06-2012, 07:28 AM
Okay well. I've come to the conclusion that economy based play is the way to go. Rushing can still be held off just with a single castle archer. There's really no other way to play the game than to go for the long-term, because rushing still isn't worth it.
What I'm thinking is to increase the time it takes to get a castle-archer out.
then apparently (not sure if i spell right), ya haven't seen the people that can defeat that stra and/or ya can't do that.
they are easy to beat.. just grab the middle tower, defend it while building up economy and you got the edge you need and if needed, rush the guy with archers-meatshields, i beat some people using miners castle archer stra that way.

Reiniat
11-06-2012, 08:47 PM
True, i can win within 3 mins by only creating speartans and going directly for the miners (castle archers cant do shit against speartans), in fact, i havent had games long enough to create a monk or a giant lately.

Dracus94
11-06-2012, 09:55 PM
I guess it's just me then.

xenodor
11-06-2012, 10:26 PM
The best strategies are not rush strategies however we need to find a balance so that Rush, balanced or economic will all work, atm, the only thing that works is Economic, because like I said Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Miner, Castle archer, Miner, Miner, Miner. is not how the game is intended.

I disagree. Rushing in with the swordwrath archer combo (load fast and at the same time)
killing any swordwarths or archers they may have built up,
then retreating to the tower to gain control of the +20 income?
put that on top of the attacker getting in the first hit, and
it works 75% of the time, easy.

MiamiBigAL
11-07-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm beginning to change my mind. miner/miner/miner is now really powerful. However, I'm not so sure about miner/miner/miner/miner/miner/(castle archer when needed). I'm fairly certain I can beat that pretty easily.

300noob
11-08-2012, 12:03 AM
I'm beginning to change my mind. miner/miner/miner is now really powerful. However, I'm not so sure about miner/miner/miner/miner/miner/(castle archer when needed). I'm fairly certain I can beat that pretty easily.
me too, i battle 3 guys all 3 use the same strategy. miner/miner/miner/castle archer/miner/miner/miner/ giants, mages, some flying crossbowmen.
i beat 1 lose 1 and the other win due to lag.