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Tecness2
11-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Okay, I was too lazy to actually make the videos! So I'll just write em down.

Red = Hard.
Orange = Medium.
Green = Easy.


This, is the All Or Nothing strategy.



This one, is to completely kill any chances he has for economy. Thus, All or Nothing. 2 Crawlers, and 4 bombers. Run straight for his miners. KABOOM. blow stuff up.


This is the Air Superiority strategy.



Put both miners on the statue, and get 150. Get a Wingadon. Your opponent will be running scared.


This, is the Quick Juggerknight strategy.



With your two starting miners, place them both on the statue...Get 50 mana, Juggerknight! Now, from here you have two choices. Either keep both miners on the statue, and get change (You'll need another 115+ mana) OR go back to mining and get more miners.


This, is the Mass Economy strategy.



Well, pretty straight forward. Place 450 into miners. Now, you're probably thinking "But Tec! If he attacks, I'll have no defense!" That's where you're wrong. This strategy requires a lot of control. If he attacks with a single Swordwrath, have a single miner attack him, but a second one close. When the first miner is close to death, quickly switch him out with the second. Place the weak miner, back on gold, and bring ANOTHER miner close the now attacking miner. If he attacks with an archer, estimate until your miners have a collective total of 300 gold inside their...mine-bags, and research a castle dead.


This, is the Rising Dead strategy.



This one, I don't think anyone uses it. Get one miner, and put all 3 on the statue. Get a dead. Go nuts.


This is the SURPRISE MOTHERF*CKER strategy.



Two crawlers, one miner. Put the one new miner on the statue. Get a Juggerknight as soon as you can.


This is the "5-pool" strategy.



5 pool? 5 crawlers of course! GO GO GO CRUSH ANYTHING IN YOUR PATH


This, is the Safe Bet strategy.



Very simple. Get a castle dead and one miner. Not that complicated. :P

This is the Standard Play strategy.



Two Crawlers, Two miners.




That's all you get. Now scram.

Llegacy
11-06-2012, 10:13 PM
I hope you have a method that prevents an Order opponent from herding giants.

Tecness2
11-19-2012, 06:11 PM
I hope you have a method that prevents an Order opponent from herding giants.
That's easy. For every giant, get 2 Skeletal Mages. (Unless it's completely out of giants. Then just 4 and an army) Pull 1-2 giants, poison them, when they get released, pull them again with the other two. Pull them all the way back to your castle deads.


BUMP!
I'm basically finished.

MrSticky
11-20-2012, 07:30 PM
That's easy. For every giant, get 2 Skeletal Mages. (Unless it's completely out of giants. Then just 4 and an army) Pull 1-2 giants, poison them, when they get released, pull them again with the other two. Pull them all the way back to your castle deads.


BUMP!
I'm basically finished.

Merics cure actually works now. So the poison thingy will most likely not work.

OT: Great guides. :)

NrgFA
12-16-2012, 09:35 PM
You are amazing! TY so much,bro! :D

WyzDM
01-10-2013, 06:34 PM
The one problem I have is if someone masses a swordswrath unit the moment they know you're chaos. Although cats are fast, if they're able to get 3-4 swords it's hard to get through with losing a cat or if they charge your miners... because castle deads while they poison are weak as hell and are single target. Once someone does this, my only option is to play order, because chaos game is essentially useless.

Panki
01-10-2013, 06:52 PM
If that happens, then I attack THEIR miners, in hopes of getting the swordwrath away.

WyzDM
01-10-2013, 08:58 PM
If that happens, then I attack THEIR miners, in hopes of getting the swordwrath away.

It works sometimes. but if they mirco the miners they'll soon afford castle archers and it's game over.

uberman
01-11-2013, 01:17 AM
The one problem I have is if someone masses a swordswrath unit the moment they know you're chaos. Although cats are fast, if they're able to get 3-4 swords it's hard to get through with losing a cat or if they charge your miners... because castle deads while they poison are weak as hell and are single target. Once someone does this, my only option is to play order, because chaos game is essentially useless.

What about bombers as a hard counter to a group of swords?
My prefered action is to spawn the bombers in the garrison, so he doesnt suspect, then let him chase my miners into garison - just as everybody is in a nice tight group (miners coming into garison, swords attacking them) out come my bombers and I can kill all his sword in one hit. It stops him separating his swords, and its just, well, fun to do :)

I think 4 bombers doesnt quite kill the swords, but the crawlers can mop them up or just use 5 bombers.
4 bombers = 300 gold, as long as you get 2 swords its break even, if you get, say 4 swords your laughing, and if you use the method above, it normally gets all his swords.
If he's got 4-6 swords, I use 5 bombers, just to make sure cos even wounded they can still be a threat, but dead they are not :)

WyzDM
01-11-2013, 01:37 AM
What about bombers as a hard counter to a group of swords?
My prefered action is to spawn the bombers in the garrison, so he doesnt suspect, then let him chase my miners into garison - just as everybody is in a nice tight group (miners coming into garison, swords attacking them) out come my bombers and I can kill all his sword in one hit. It stops him separating his swords, and its just, well, fun to do :)

This I like, but there's just a couple players who are smart enough to not send in the full carvery and leave just enough at middle to still hold me off. Even if I go for the economy the army would be too power to have my miners fend or leave to a castle gut.


I think 4 bombers doesn't quite kill the swords, but the crawlers can mop them up or just use 5 bombers.
4 bombers = 300 gold, as long as you get 2 swords its break even, if you get, say 4 swords your laughing, and if you use the method above, it normally gets all his swords.
If he's got 4-6 swords, I use 5 bombers, just to make sure cos even wounded they can still be a threat, but dead they are not :)

It is 5 to completely kill, but a big problem with bombers is that it's not a unit you can use again... if you toss that much gold into something that doesn't work, you're screwed. Why it's very difficult play.

uberman
01-11-2013, 05:03 AM
This I like, but there's just a couple players who are smart enough to not send in the full carvery and leave just enough at middle to still hold me off. Even if I go for the economy the army would be too power to have my miners fend or leave to a castle gut.


Hrmm...
I haven't been troubled by any players that smart yet :)

Seriously; should a pro NOT attack with full force in general, reserving some forces, or only in the special case of units like swords which can be one-hit-killed by bombers or magikill etc?
My thinking has always been to hit him as hard as I can, with all I have got to inflict maximum damage. For example, if doing hit and run from the tower with wings and juggers I just keep going in with all I have got. Recently, however, I have tried to send my wounded units back to garrison and heal to fight later instead of just keeping sending them back in untill destroyed. My thinking being; if I dont lose the unit and it heals to come back later its as-if I made a new unit, but its free.




It is 5 to completely kill, but a big problem with bombers is that it's not a unit you can use again... if you toss that much gold into something that doesn't work, you're screwed. Why it's very difficult play.

True, you need to balance the cost to kill ratio.
If you use 5 bombers (375 gold) strickly speaking you must kill 3 or more swords (450 gold) to make him hurt more than you. Although, if he's got 3 swords supressing your economy, you should also include the point that your miners can be back in action if you kill his swords.
You can always save them for a miner-bomb-run, if he withdraws his swords while your still preparing your bombers.

ShadowyWhisper
01-13-2013, 05:34 PM
Okay, I was too lazy to actually make the videos! So I'll just write em down.

Red = Hard.
Orange = Medium.
Green = Easy.


This, is the All Or Nothing strategy.



This one, is to completely kill any chances he has for economy. Thus, All or Nothing. 2 Crawlers, and 4 bombers. Run straight for his miners. KABOOM. blow stuff up.


This is the Air Superiority strategy.



Put both miners on the statue, and get 150. Get a Wingadon. Your opponent will be running scared.


This, is the Quick Juggerknight strategy.



With your two starting miners, place them both on the statue...Get 50 mana, Juggerknight! Now, from here you have two choices. Either keep both miners on the statue, and get change (You'll need another 115+ mana) OR go back to mining and get more miners.


This, is the Mass Economy strategy.



Well, pretty straight forward. Place 450 into miners. Now, you're probably thinking "But Tec! If he attacks, I'll have no defense!" That's where you're wrong. This strategy requires a lot of control. If he attacks with a single Swordwrath, have a single miner attack him, but a second one close. When the first miner is close to death, quickly switch him out with the second. Place the weak miner, back on gold, and bring ANOTHER miner close the now attacking miner. If he attacks with an archer, estimate until your miners have a collective total of 300 gold inside their...mine-bags, and research a castle dead.


This, is the Rising Dead strategy.



This one, I don't think anyone uses it. Get one miner, and put all 3 on the statue. Get a dead. Go nuts.


This is the SURPRISE MOTHERF*CKER strategy.



Two crawlers, one miner. Put the one new miner on the statue. Get a Juggerknight as soon as you can.


This is the "5-pool" strategy.



5 pool? 5 crawlers of course! GO GO GO CRUSH ANYTHING IN YOUR PATH


This, is the Safe Bet strategy.



Very simple. Get a castle dead and one miner. Not that complicated. :P

This is the Standard Play strategy.



Two Crawlers, Two miners.




That's all you get. Now scram.

I don't actually have Chaos, but from studying my opponent's usage, I have figured out a few things to counter this.

Well, for a Wingadon I could simply Garrison my Miners and have Spearton attack your miners.

Or I get a castle archer (I seldom use this as I usually play offense), archer kills Wingadon. Simple.

As for the JuggerKnight, I do the same thing for a Spearton :P

Crawlers, I'm guessing they cost 75-100 (which is NOT fair even if they do have low health), a castle archer, again could bring them down, or a Spearton could as well.

All miners. ALL MINERS. A Spearton would kill them all in no time flat. And I could target the wounded miner. Best thing to do would be to garrison that miner. \

THE ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY HAVE ANY OF YOUR MINERS SURVIVE IS:

Garrison them

or, if your opponent forgot he had a Spearton on the other side and focused on his economy

or doesn't know how to have his unit target only a single enemy.

DragonFrost
01-13-2013, 06:02 PM
CRALWERS: 100 gold. Also, jugger beats spearton in a battle.

NrgFA
01-13-2013, 10:14 PM
CRALWERS: 100 gold. Also, jugger beats spearton in a battle.

no...that isn't...no....
I saw a guy recording a 1-on-1 battle of spearton and dark knight,the juggerknight had 1 poisonous dead,and 1-2 bomber(s).The spearton had an archidon and won

DragonFrost
01-14-2013, 07:10 AM
WHAT?????? can you send me the link?

ShadowyWhisper
01-16-2013, 07:08 PM
You are amazing! TY so much,bro! :D

How do you know that Tecness isn't a girl?

And also I tried it out and JuggerKnight beats Spearton. Unless, of course, you're using Giants at the back of your Spearton.

DragonFrost
01-19-2013, 08:39 AM
I meant 1vs 1. Jugger's regen puts them a bit stronger than spearton.

uberman
01-22-2013, 10:17 PM
I meant 1vs 1. Jugger's regen puts them a bit stronger than spearton.

Regen only helps a tiny tiny bit, but helps more if you kite when your life gets very low. The main advantage is when you get charge, because stunning the speartom allows you to get in first blow, and a bit leter you can stun him again. You can hit him some more, the normal plan, or run for a small kite and regenerate if you need to.
Obviously, if he decides to flee to garison and heal, your charge will stun him and let you finish him off.
;)
So, in a 1 on 1;
unbuffed sometimes the spearton will win, although the juggerknight has a small advantage (say 60-40?)
buffed, the juggerknight will almost always win.

DragonFrost
01-23-2013, 07:25 AM
Ok, I see. Let's test sometime?

ShadowyWhisper
01-23-2013, 05:24 PM
Buff? There's a research ability like that? I thought it was only Charge. Anyways, the Spearton will lose 1 vs 1 against JuggerKnight, I've tried it in the opening and my Spearton lost, making me sad. Which is why I had 2 more Spearton to kill his almost dead JuggerKnight!

Anyways, I'm pretty sure my opponent didn't get "buff" for his JuggerKnight (can you get it for Spearton too, because it'd be very useful?), and my Spearton lost and his JuggerKnight had about 1 bar of health left.

Chaos has an opening advantage, for offensive players. The units load faster, but Order units do more damage, and is useful for later game.

Ex: Blazing Bolts, Rage, Electric Wall, etc.

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!

THE CHAOS CAN HEAL THEMSELVES!!!

I THOUGHT THE HEALING POWERS OF MERIC EVENED IT OUT. THEY GET MEDUSA WHEN ORDER GETS STUPID UNCONTROLLABLE WEAK LOW-HEALTH MERIC!!!!

THIS IS... just simply sadistic and gives you an amazing advantage.

In addition to your faster-loading flying unit and more damage-area Chaos Giant. PLUS your stun ability that can be used for offense. Jeez, I spent 4 dollars last month and the only thing I got was -109 rating. Maybe I should buy it again?

DragonFrost
01-23-2013, 06:48 PM
LOL you are weird, shadowywhisper. Chaos giants SUCK. How do our untis load faster (especially at start)? crawlers creation speed is 12 seconcds, same as sword. But order can do 1 sword 1 archer, loading both at same time. Chaos has to stack.

ShadowyWhisper
01-30-2013, 06:47 PM
The one problem I have is if someone masses a swordswrath unit the moment they know you're chaos. Although cats are fast, if they're able to get 3-4 swords it's hard to get through with losing a cat or if they charge your miners... because castle deads while they poison are weak as hell and are single target. Once someone does this, my only option is to play order, because chaos game is essentially useless.

Wait... the strongest player on SE has a problem with SwordWrath!!! I stand corrected, Axcz

WyzDM
01-30-2013, 07:03 PM
Wait... the strongest player on SE has a problem with SwordWrath!!! I stand corrected, Axcz

Haha, I have tricks now so I'm not defeated too quickly, but on short stages yes this is a big antichaos game.

ShadowyWhisper
01-30-2013, 08:25 PM
Against Eclipsors, wouldn't the SwordWrath die pretty quickly...

WyzDM
01-30-2013, 10:15 PM
Against Eclipsors, wouldn't the SwordWrath die pretty quickly...

You can't just pull one out early game (on short maps ) and even on larger maps, it can hurt your economy.

uberman
01-30-2013, 10:58 PM
Against Eclipsors, wouldn't the SwordWrath die pretty quickly...

Yes, against an eclipsor they die quickly, but as WyzDM said, the point is this is a problem for chaos very early game, and you (chaos) cant have an eclipsor yet unless you sacrafice really heavily on economy - all chaos has early access to is either crawlers OR bombers (which build in the same queue, and so cant be built at the same time).
While its true that 5 bombs will instantly kill a sword this group of 5 takes a while to build, costs 375 gold (5x75 = 375) and means that during the construction time you cant get any crawlers.

This creates a dilema - crawlers are weaker than swords, so if chaos goes for crawlers, order has the military advantage. But bilding bombs means no crawlers can be built during the building time for bombs, which means order has a window of opportunity when the chaos player is seriously unable to defend his miners - if order attacks, the miners can be killed preventing the building of the bombs, if chaos garisons them, then the income to build bombs stops, preventing building bombs. If chaos uses the nminers to fight a group of swords, they are not mining (no income) and may well be killed.

This is a real issue for chaos on short maps, because the swords can cross the map and attack before chaos has time to build enough units to defend; since the sword and crawler have the same build time, but the sword is significantly stronger 1 vs 1 than the crawler. After a little time, the cheaper cost of the crawler means chaos can have more crawlers, but this is not a factor in the very early stages under discussion, on the very short map which is the issue.

Anyway, thats my understanding of the problem I face as chaos, and I think thats a more wordy explaination of what Wyz is refering to.

Combining to avoid double post, sorry if its TL;DR


Buff? There's a research ability like that? I thought it was only Charge. Anyways, the Spearton will lose 1 vs 1 against JuggerKnight, I've tried it in the opening and my Spearton lost, making me sad. Which is why I had 2 more Spearton to kill his almost dead JuggerKnight!

Anyways, I'm pretty sure my opponent didn't get "buff" for his JuggerKnight (can you get it for Spearton too, because it'd be very useful?), and my Spearton lost and his JuggerKnight had about 1 bar of health left.

Chaos has an opening advantage, for offensive players. The units load faster, but Order units do more damage, and is useful for later game.

Ex: Blazing Bolts, Rage, Electric Wall, etc.

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!

THE CHAOS CAN HEAL THEMSELVES!!!

I THOUGHT THE HEALING POWERS OF MERIC EVENED IT OUT. THEY GET MEDUSA WHEN ORDER GETS STUPID UNCONTROLLABLE WEAK LOW-HEALTH MERIC!!!!

THIS IS... just simply sadistic and gives you an amazing advantage.

In addition to your faster-loading flying unit and more damage-area Chaos Giant. PLUS your stun ability that can be used for offense. Jeez, I spent 4 dollars last month and the only thing I got was -109 rating. Maybe I should buy it again?

First, the word 'buff' is a general term for any enhancing effect. The buff I spoke of is indeed charge, which stuns the spearton and gives the advantage to the juggerknight in a 1 vs 1.

Second, the chaos regenration is a nice effect, but is far slower than a meric healing. It is particularly good for a weak HP unit like a crawler or a wing, which if it survives a fight can come back on good or full health quickly. Its an absolute nightmare on high life units like a giant, which if used to tank say 75% of its HP will take several minutes of time to regenerate, even if in garison. That means the main tank is taken out of the battle for a LONG time. Imagine having only garison to heal order giants, thats the situation.

As a chaos player, if I am using giants to tank, its often quicker for me to let the giant die and build a new one than to heal the giant. If my economy is strong enough, I will often deliberatly avoid saving a low health giant, and just build a fresh one.

_Ai_
01-31-2013, 12:16 AM
I like the SUPRISE MOTHERFUCKER! Strategy the most.
Mostly because of its name lol.
Ps. I don't have chaos, mind you

ShadowyWhisper
01-31-2013, 02:25 PM
Alright uberman. But a castle dead would help, and a JuggerKnight when you have enough. Rage takes 60 sec to load, by the way.

KillerPixel
02-03-2013, 10:08 AM
[
This is the Air Superiority strategy.



Put both miners on the statue, and get 150. Get a Wingadon. Your opponent will be running scared.



I'm guessing you mean Eclipsor

ShadowyWhisper
02-03-2013, 03:04 PM
It's original name in Alpha was Wingadon...

_Ai_
02-03-2013, 11:41 PM
I'm guessing you mean Eclipsor

It's the same, use anything you want.

ShadowyWhisper
02-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Of course it is, but it's the older name.

_Ai_
02-05-2013, 12:20 AM
.....Whatever.

ShadowyWhisper
02-05-2013, 01:05 PM
Does it matter?

_Ai_
02-07-2013, 06:18 AM
Nope.

ShadowyWhisper
02-07-2013, 06:10 PM
Alright.

DEMONGOD
02-07-2013, 11:49 PM
This I like, but there's just a couple players who are smart enough to not send in the full carvery and leave just enough at middle to still hold me off. Even if I go for the economy the army would be too power to have my miners fend or leave to a castle gut.



It is 5 to completely kill, but a big problem with bombers is that it's not a unit you can use again... if you toss that much gold into something that doesn't work, you're screwed. Why it's very difficult play.



To avoid early rushes i start with 2 miners an crawlers then spam crawlers till 5, accompany them with 2-3 bombs an they will clean up the mess if u focus fire the weakened army

WyzDM
02-08-2013, 05:27 AM
To avoid early rushes i start with 2 miners an crawlers then spam crawlers till 5, accompany them with 2-3 bombs an they will clean up the mess if u focus fire the weakened army

Welcome to the forums! That was me a month ago, and yes I've come up with a method of anti rushing since then, although aggressive players can still cause problems. Glad you joined us here.

ShadowyWhisper
02-08-2013, 12:11 PM
So being aggressive is not good during play?

DragonFrost
02-08-2013, 03:54 PM
It's good, except wyzdm learned how to counter it. I think that's what we are talki about?