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View Full Version : A better alternative start for new chaos players.



uberman
12-30-2012, 03:02 AM
Single Bomber Start

intro
This is an improved version of the alternative start I suggested in the other thread. No doubt, its not new to the pro's - As a new player I am sharing with other newbies, not trying to teach the pro's who know far better than I claim to. Its tough as a new chaos player, right?


The Plan
You start with 2 miners & 500 gold. First make 2 miners & 1 bomber, send bomber to secure tower as soon as he's made.
(no other unit is made as quick or moves as quick, must secure vs order) --> You have 4 miners, first 3 on gold, last 1 mana with 125 reserved gold, this is the opening move.

Your bomber should have secured tower for 2 ticks, which gives enough gold to produce the 5th miner, who goes on gold.

If any unit approaches the bomber, bring him back - dont waste him as he cant kill anything - he's a scout.

Now the production stage starts.

Miners 1-4 giving 350 gold pluss mana equals juggerknights in a constant early stream to hold/secure tower. Aim for a mixed force of mixed juggerknights and wings. Both can be produced at the same time, once the economy can support this.
miner 5, on gold used to make extra miner; first miners put on gold doubling number of miners on each return.
(miner 5 gives 6, miners 5 and 6 give 7 and 8 , miners 5,6,7 and 8 give miners 9,10,11 and 12 - you'd probably stop there)
Shifting extra miners onto mana allows some wings to be made as well as juggers. Also tower income helps this.

Also get in miner hustle and (assuming you have the tower) tower spawn when possible. Tower spawn 1 is essential as soon as he gets up a castle archer, otherwise your juggerknights take a lot of damage on each hit and run sweep.

Objectives; 1. claim tower ASAP for income, 2. build up force of juggers and wings to secure tower and then do hit and run raids against his base/miners.
When you can, get towerspawn 1 to tank if he has tower archers up or builds a wall and archer defence. 3 while doing this build a strong economy to buy top tier units.
You can build a quick strong army without sacraficing a good build up of economy.

Notes;
- wings are great to take down miner walls - a group of 6 or so takes down a wall in 2 or 3 hits. If he's rebuilding walls, he's using gold instead of buying units - your getting a strongrt army faster than he is. If he's retreating miners on each sweep, they are nt producing, your getting a stronger army faster than he is. If he's defending and is too powerful to hurt, say he got up a giant behind a couple of walls, as long as you match his miners, you have tower income, and should be building faster - plus try focus fire on one wall or one unit to kill it, withdraw before you lose any units - your not losing units/defences but he is - its a drain on his military build up.
- wings die fast against castle archers - keep some jugger's or ghost in front of them to meat shield.
- wings (in a group) kill miners in 1 hit.

- The key to this strategy is the 125 gold left, almost enough to build miner 5. But with a couple of ticks from tower income you have him - Then this miner makes extra miners while 1-4 pump out military might. You are pumping out both milatary might and building economy.

- Any baddly wounded juggers can be held back for one or two hit-and-run's, if he has archers, as he'd probably target and kill them.

- remember your bomber? Add 3 more as soon as you have chance and target his miners - if you target one of his miners and he withdraws miners, you can hit them by the statue as they all group up, killing a huge number and crippling his economy.
- one time I got vitrually all his miners and a group of albow's who poped out of the garison to defend :) Game over in one strike.

- if he is aggressive and brings up swords or sword&archer before you get out your first jugger, you will have seen them with your bomber and retrated him, no problem. Just put the first money into castle dead as soon as you can. (If you hve enough, start to build another bomber too but keep it for now).This will keep him off, and then you resume the plan. He's gone all military for an early advantage, but having scouted, your defence is too strong and he gains nothing, plus his economy has suffered as he starts with only 2 miners.
In an ideal case your castle dead will spawn as he is close to you statue, and poison both his units before they escape, possibly killing them both, probably killing one. Consider bringing you bomber(s) to attack his poisoned units.

Comparisons.

The other opening choice, to get a powerfull economy going quickly is starting with 3 miners.
But then you dont know what he's bringing at you, so your gambling; if he's agressive you need castle dead for cover, if he's turtling castle dead is a waste of money and buying it sets you back equal to two miners.
If it works out, you can pump out a force and build an economy, as above. By using the bomber plan rather than 3 miners, you gain the tower (equal to about 1.5 miners) and gain information about what he's bringing - if anything.

The most aggressive opening, the crawler plan (1 miner, 3 crawlers - then 2 miner 2 crawlers from first 450 income plus 50 reserve) is better for those pro's who can apply it, because if he doesnt put up castle archer (and wall later) you can squash his economy before he can start. But those of us who have a bit of lag often find our crawlers die too easily, or we're just not good enough to pull it off. This plan will not get the same total early dominance as the well executed 5 crawlwer aggressive plan, but its advantage is that its also stronger if the initial phase of the attack doesnt work to plan. Here you have a strong economy, and can develop well even if pushed back initially.

It is better than the one crawler plan I originally suggetsed because the bomber is faster to build and move, so you get the tower earlier, and since the crawler cant even kill a single sword easily they both flee if an enemy comes. But the cheaper price, and faster claim, makes it more probable that if he sends out a force you'll hold the tower long enough to get out the extra miner.

WheresMyCheetos
02-09-2013, 07:13 AM
Nice strat!!! I might get chaos so im trying to find some good ones. This is the best so far.

uberman
02-10-2013, 08:14 AM
This is actually out dated now with the new miner patch (where miners bring 75 gold in less time rather than 150 gold in more time).

Now I do the standard start, 2 miners 2 crawlers.
Until the rumoured nerf on wings, the general plan is;
use the minimum number of crawlers required to secure the base and statue while building a few miners.
Attack his base with your crawlers as soon as possible - straight after securing the tower - to make him buy castle archer before he can really afford it (ie sending 300 gold for archer stops him getting 2 additional early miners)
Get wings as soon as you have about 7-8 miners. Use the wings to keep him off his outergold while staying out of range of his catle archer.
Spam miners onto your own outed gold - keep adding miners and hustle as building wings.

Get towerspawn 1, and use it to tank while hit and run with the wings.

keep killing his units and miners, so he has to build defensive walls or units and this stops him getting giants, while you build up an unstoppable fleet of wings.

But you may experiment with this bomber start, and see if its any good for you.

DragonFrost
02-10-2013, 08:55 AM
This is actually out dated now with the new miner patch (where miners bring 75 gold in less time rather than 150 gold in more time).

Now I do the standard start, 2 miners 2 crawlers.
Until the rumoured nerf on wings, the general plan is;
use the minimum number of crawlers required to secure the base and statue while building a few miners.
Attack his base with your crawlers as soon as possible - straight after securing the tower - to make him buy castle archer before he can really afford it (ie sending 300 gold for archer stops him getting 2 additional early miners)
Get wings as soon as you have about 7-8 miners. Use the wings to keep him off his outergold while staying out of range of his catle archer.
Spam miners onto your own outed gold - keep adding miners and hustle as building wings.

Get towerspawn 1, and use it to tank while hit and run with the wings.

keep killing his units and miners, so he has to build defensive walls or units and this stops him getting giants, while you build up an unstoppable fleet of wings.

But you may experiment with this bomber start, and see if its any good for you.

That's basically what I do :/ (but wouldn't mass egiants counter this?)

WheresMyCheetos
02-10-2013, 09:12 AM
Well jufging from a battle I had with Galeforce im confused. Gale had 6 miners 3 on mana and 3 on gold I had 4 all on gold. I kept massing swords until I sucured the tower If he only had 3 miners mining he wouldnt have alot of gold to spend on crawlers (he was saving for a wingadon) but the crawlers kept on coming never ending until the wing came but how could he afford 350 gold at the same time constanly buying crawlers

DragonFrost
02-10-2013, 09:16 AM
Did you watch the replay? If so, please send me it, so I can watch it sometime (I'll see if I can figure it out)

WheresMyCheetos
02-10-2013, 09:18 AM
LOL i never save replays XD. But they just kept on coming out.

Wait i think i understand At a short time when he retreated his crawlers and I had tower for abit he never had more then 3 crawlers. So he must have had all 6 miners on gold then switched 3 on mana for the win...........adon XD awesome pun

uberman
02-10-2013, 09:39 AM
That's basically what I do :/ (but wouldn't mass egiants counter this?)

If he gets loads of full size egiants out, your probably screwed.
Small giants will probably come out first, and singular if your pressuring him - as he knows a small giant can mess with your wings - then you just have to keep a tank between the giant and your wings - he cant hit the wings (2 giant hits will kill a wing) because the tank takes the hit while the wings do huge damage on the giant.

The key thing is e-gaint is expensive, so you have to supress his economy and keep pressure on him to force him to spend money on defensive units, castle archer and walls so he cant afford a giant or two with full buffs and a couple of merics to heal.

ShadowyWhisper
02-10-2013, 01:55 PM
Wait are EGiants Chaos giants?

WheresMyCheetos
02-10-2013, 01:56 PM
Enslaved gaints

ShadowyWhisper
02-10-2013, 02:06 PM
Oh! Why don't they just says Chained-Boulder Throwing-Giants? Or CBTG for short.

WheresMyCheetos
02-10-2013, 02:13 PM
LOL idk

ShadowyWhisper
02-10-2013, 04:50 PM
Personally, I never use ShadowWrath. I don't know why. I'll maybe try it sometime.

WheresMyCheetos
02-10-2013, 08:20 PM
They rock shinobi is known to slay countless giants and fixate is beastly

fram
02-11-2013, 04:18 AM
WheresMyCheetos
They rock shinobi is known to slay countless giants and fixate is beastly
Very true, pwns spear spammers aswell