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Juice Box
01-05-2013, 01:45 AM
Alright. So this has apparently become a major problem for some people. They apparently last so long that they can change the tide of a battle. Post ideas here on how we can fix them.

We cannot make the winning unit vulnerable during their animation, like Tecness and company said, would be unfair. We also cannot turn off the animations. That would sort of be a waste of such a great idea.

This is just my idea: But why not make the winning dueler untargetable during the animation? Not invulnerable, but untargetable. Example:

A Spearton and a Swordwrath go up against a Juggerknight and a Crawler. They start fighting, and both the Spearton and Swordwrath target the Juggerknight. At the same time, both the Juggerknight and the Crawler target the Swordwrath. The Swordwrath gets beat by an attacck from the Juggerknight. Obviously, this is where the duel animation kicks in. Since the Spearton was targeting the Juggerknight and the Crawler was targeting the Swordwrath, and both of them are in an animation, the Spearton and Crawler will instead proceed on fighting each other, rather than their original enemies. Meaning, from targeting the Juggerknight, the Spearton will switch to target the Crawler. Vice versa.

Say, once the Juggerknight finishes off the Swordwrath, the Spearton would have already beaten the Crawler. Meaning they go into the animation. So what about the Dark Knight? Well, he just stands still, and waits for the animation to finish. He will only attack once the Spearton finishes his animation with the Crawler.


So, what do you think?

Tecness2
01-05-2013, 01:49 AM
I never said it would be unfair, while it would, there is a problem with them. If the unit that is doing the animation doesn't become immortal, it instantly dies as soon as the animation is done. (So BOTH units, would die)
But, that would in theory solve the issue.

jerrytt
01-05-2013, 11:25 AM
spearton vs swordwrath.
spearton kills the swordwrath.
spearton dies
wtf

DragonFrost
01-05-2013, 11:34 AM
LOL thats only if they have more than 1 swordwrath. BTW juice box that wouldn't work :/ cuz if hes untargetable, all units targeting him would switch to another enemy.. BUT WHAT IF HE JUST SENT LIKE JUGGER AGAINST YOUR 5 swords. Who would win? Jugger. Cuz. 1. He PWNs sword, goes into animation. Sword just stand there (no one else to attack), jugger runs away, heals, attacks, etc. OR even worse, 2 juggers against a bunch of swords. Get the, to target different swords, then you lose. Basically chaos could exploit it to be similar to this animation (where they can't get injured)

lntrepid
01-05-2013, 11:42 AM
How about you either make the animations much, much faster, or have the unit take vastly less damage during the animation time, or both? Because then the troops will stand around doing nothing if a tower spawn comes in and kills one swordswrath on your side.

DragonFrost
01-05-2013, 12:23 PM
Lol! But only if the enemy has membership.

_Ai_
01-05-2013, 10:37 PM
Hm.. how about do animations only when having only 1 spear 1 sword

jerrytt
01-05-2013, 11:02 PM
Hm.. how about do animations only when having only 1 spear 1 sword

that would add an epicness factor... and it is called a duel animation :P

_Ai_
01-05-2013, 11:30 PM
A duel of a spear vs Sword only.... full fight.

Juice Box
01-07-2013, 03:49 AM
Intrepid actually gave a pretty good idea...

I just see a hole: The units that would be attacking the unit that is in a duel animation can still be targeted by other units. That would be unfair.

Also, DragonFrost, thanks for the opinions. But I'm pretty sure a Juggerknight would still lose to five Swordwrath. I mean, they get beat by three. Much less five lol.

DragonFrost
01-07-2013, 07:02 AM
:/ I mean a jugger and a support unit (dead?) cuz the swords are screwed, just waiting for the jugger to finish the animation. While dead poisons all of them and stuff. Even if they chase dead, jugger after he's done animation can go beat up the swords.

Panki
01-07-2013, 09:02 AM
Make the unit untargetable so the other units could attack something else.

uberman
01-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Alright. So this has apparently become a major problem for some people. They apparently last so long that they can change the tide of a battle. Post ideas here on how we can fix them.



What exactly is the problem with them at the moment?
Are people concerned that it helps the side who's unit does the animation?
I know that it can be troublesome as a member, say 2 juggs vs 5 swords - I get one kill, but instead of 2 (wounded) juggers vs 4 swords, the animation takes one out for a while giving 1 jugger vs 4 swords. All he has to do is select all units (space) and click my one attackable jugger, and the animation is then a disadvantage to me while its 4 to 1 against my unit.
Even if the unit is invulnerable, it doesnt actually help me much, as its not as if he can be used to do anything - if he leaves his 4 swords hitting the invulnarable unit, then thats his bad, failing to take the advantage, its certainallly not my exploit - right?
The only advantage I'd get is if he makes this mistake, and allows his units to hit mine during its animation while my other units hit his - again, his bad.

uberman
01-07-2013, 09:40 AM
Make the unit untargetable so the other units could attack something else.

If you make them automatically target something else, that seems very much against the member who's unit is in animation. As I showed in the 2 vs 5 example above, its bad enough if the enemy can take advantage of 4 vs 1 for a while, but to make it automatice that the player doesnt have to even act to take advantage, but rather he automatically gets the advantage because all his units auto-target the damage-able unit, is a SERIOUS reason to NOT be a member.

You may have a problem with a paying member getting an advantage, but I think you should understand a paying member would have a bigger problem with getting an automatic disadvantage in battle.

PsychoticCheez
01-07-2013, 10:26 AM
Striking the finishing blow, without the duel animation, will still leave the unit vulnerable to damage. Why not reduce the damage whilst in duel animations proportionately so that the damage is equal to if the animation didn't happen?

uberman
01-07-2013, 07:44 PM
Striking the finishing blow, without the duel animation, will still leave the unit vulnerable to damage. Why not reduce the damage whilst in duel animations proportionately so that the damage is equal to if the animation didn't happen?

Because the unit is unable to attack for the duation of the animation - if unable to attack at all, why should it be able to be attacked at all during that stage?

DragonFrost
01-07-2013, 08:08 PM
ANIMATION IS CAUSING TO MUCH PROBLEMS (with order and chaos players) :/ why don't you remove them, or only in friendlys?

PsychoticCheez
01-07-2013, 09:15 PM
Because the unit is unable to attack for the duation of the animation - if unable to attack at all, why should it be able to be attacked at all during that stage?

You must misunderstand me. If the duel animation does not appear (I.e. the person is not a member), a killing animation still needs to take place. Albeit a more basic one.

Thus, have damage, but reduce it proportionally so that the damage received is equal to if there was no fancy animation (just a normal spear thrust).

This doesn't completely solve this issue; it'd still be exploitable, but it's the closest I can get

uberman
01-08-2013, 05:52 AM
You must misunderstand me.


I did ask in post 13 http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?48891-Solving-the-Duel-Animation-Issues&p=844843&viewfull=1#post844843 what exactly is the problem.



If the duel animation does not appear (I.e. the person is not a member), a killing animation still needs to take place. Albeit a more basic one.

Thus, have damage, but reduce it proportionally so that the damage received is equal to if there was no fancy animation (just a normal spear thrust).

This doesn't completely solve this issue; it'd still be exploitable, but it's the closest I can get

How is it exploitable, both right now and if implemented as you suggest here. I am not disagreeing, not saying it cant be, but if I understand exactly what your concern is, it will be easier to address the concern meaningfully, with less crossed-wires.

PsychoticCheez
01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
I did ask in post 13 http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?48891-Solving-the-Duel-Animation-Issues&p=844843&viewfull=1#post844843 what exactly is the problem.


How is it exploitable, both right now and if implemented as you suggest here. I am not disagreeing, not saying it cant be, but if I understand exactly what your concern is, it will be easier to address the concern meaningfully, with less crossed-wires.

Compare the two examples ...

Example 1
Two non members. One spear, vs three swords.

As the Spearton deals the finishing blow to a swordwrath (a simple stabbing animation from the spear), he takes damage from the other two swords.

Example 2
One spearton, belonging to a member. Against three swordwrath, from a non member.

As the Spearton deals the finishing blow to a swordwrath (the complex duel animation), he is immune to damage which he would've received, had he been a non member.


This seems like not much, but the effect is amplified when castle archers/archidons/other units are taken into account.


If implemented as I suggested, it would still be exploitable when there are more units to take into consideration. Every second the troops spend attacking a unit with longer longevity, the longer they're open to attacks themselves. For full damage.

jerrytt
01-08-2013, 03:43 PM
I did ask in post 13 http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?48891-Solving-the-Duel-Animation-Issues&p=844843&viewfull=1#post844843 what exactly is the problem.



How is it exploitable, both right now and if implemented as you suggest here. I am not disagreeing, not saying it cant be, but if I understand exactly what your concern is, it will be easier to address the concern meaningfully, with less crossed-wires.

A better example is this. 12 archers and 1 swordwrath vs 1 spearton and 6 archers. Most agree that the left hand side should win, but if the spearton does the killing animation, the 12 archers will be meaningless as they continue to pour round after round of arrows into the invulnerable spearton while the 6 supporting archers slaughter the enemy archers with an impenetrable 5 second sheild. You may not think that that is much, only 3 or so volleys,but then consider that the Spearton is still alive after the animation and can still easily take another 2 or 3 volleys, effectivly reducing it to an even match from an extremely uneven start.

DragonFrost
01-08-2013, 05:13 PM
But there's only an animation if the spearton person has membership (just feeling like pointing that out)