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Tecness2
01-16-2013, 05:53 PM
Okay, I was recently discussing this with a buddy of mine and I decided to make it a thread.
Here are several solutions, to somewhat nerf, Giant massing.

Solution 1:

Incrementally increase the price of giants with a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will once again, be 1600. The prices are just an example.


Solution 2:

Incrementally increase the price of giants without a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will be 1800. There of course would be a maximum price, in this example, it would be 2500. That means, the giants are worth more, so don't let them die.

Solution 3:

Remove the third tier of giants. Very simple.


Solution 4:

Increase the price per level. A normal, level 1 giant, is 1500 - 0 - 7. A giant, after the first upgrade, is 1750 - 75 - 8. A giant, after the third upgrade, is 2000 - 150 - 9.


Solution 5:

Decrease the effects of the tiers. Miami has suggested that the maximum giant has 70% more health, and I believe he also has around 10% more damage than a standard giant. Make it, so the maximum giant only has 40% more health and keep the damage. Making them more of a support & tank unit, rather than the main army.


Solution 6:

Nerf the numbers! Do the opposite of Pack Mentality. If you have two giants, then their health & attack are both reduced by 5%. If you have three, then it's 10%. Four is 15%. Five is 20%.


Solution 7:

Make the ghost giant, either stay at level 1, or a maximum of level 2.


Solution 8:

Drastically increase the price of the tier upgrades.




All the numbers in here are only examples and can change.
These solutions are also only suggestions, parts of them can change.
I like solutions 1,4, & 7.

3FFA
01-16-2013, 05:59 PM
I like 7 the most. All though, they are all well thought out. Thanks for this great list :)

DragonFrost
01-16-2013, 07:13 PM
Ghost Giant is OP. But that dosnt really change the fact that people shouldn't giant mass? (i know it says giant balancing, which includes ghost, but i always think of balancing giant massers :P)

xvdaemonicxv
01-16-2013, 07:30 PM
These are all really good solutions, honestly Tecness. But just so you realize, this isn't going to prevent "giant spamming" whatsoever.
AND
This isn't going to help players who are losing to "giant spamming" because they aren't losing to the giants... as discussed in my thread.

Also beating an opponent that has castle archer level 3+ plus flyers/giants/archers/mage/ will be super super difficult without some fully upgraded giants to tank the dmg.

FailingAtFailing
01-16-2013, 07:37 PM
I think one of my ideas would be better than "Solution 3" or "Solution 8" in the OP.

It was to make the giants always be created at level 1, but to get to level 2 or 3, they have to use an ability to grow. Each growth costs some mana (Maybe 250 or 500) and has a cooldown of 45 seconds. This makes it so to get FULLY grown giants you need to use 1000 more mana. In the end, 130 seconds (2 minutes 10 seconds) is needed to make a fully grown giant along with 1500 gold and 1000 mana. This ignore the cost of the actual research for the upgrade.

Of course, the person could still spam level 1 giants, but those are useless. I've never used them and have only faced one of them backed with some speartons. They're useless compared to the higher levels.

3FFA
01-16-2013, 07:59 PM
would make the cost a lot lower. Like 200 and 300.

uberman
01-16-2013, 08:29 PM
Okay, I was recently discussing this with a buddy of mine and I decided to make it a thread.
Here are several solutions, to somewhat nerf, Giant massing.

Solution 1:

Incrementally increase the price of giants with a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will once again, be 1600. The prices are just an example.


Solution 2:

Incrementally increase the price of giants without a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will be 1800. There of course would be a maximum price, in this example, it would be 2500. That means, the giants are worth more, so don't let them die.

Solution 3:

Remove the third tier of giants. Very simple.


Solution 4:

Increase the price per level. A normal, level 1 giant, is 1500 - 0 - 7. A giant, after the first upgrade, is 1750 - 75 - 8. A giant, after the third upgrade, is 2000 - 150 - 9.


Solution 5:

Decrease the effects of the tiers. Miami has suggested that the maximum giant has 70% more health, and I believe he also has around 10% more damage than a standard giant. Make it, so the maximum giant only has 40% more health and keep the damage. Making them more of a support & tank unit, rather than the main army.


Solution 6:

Nerf the numbers! Do the opposite of Pack Mentality. If you have two giants, then their health & attack are both reduced by 5%. If you have three, then it's 10%. Four is 15%. Five is 20%.


Solution 7:

Make the ghost giant, either stay at level 1, or a maximum of level 2.


Solution 8:

Drastically increase the price of the tier upgrades.




All the numbers in here are only examples and can change.
These solutions are also only suggestions, parts of them can change.
I like solutions 1,4, & 7.

Great ideas Tec.

I like 1, 4, 5 and 7 best.

4 is great, but could be complex, I buy several giants then I buy the upgrades. I get high tier giants at low teir prices. But thats not a bad thing, as it exposes me to the risk of losing a giant or two before they are upgraded - if he attacks me and I need to use them to defend.

5 is a great way to make the unit a tank and stunner (supprt the army rather than be the army), which is suposed to be its main role.

Question; how would this work with chaos giants, which are much weaker to begin with - I am sure we've all played hundreds of E-gaint massers, but I bet not a single chaos giant masser :)

Anything is better than nothing, but I think its a great way forward - put out some ideas and listen to feedback from the players. Thumbs up for the methodology.

Brotherhood
01-16-2013, 09:31 PM
Personally, I think the giants are fine the way they are currently. It's easy to kill giant massers in small maps and in larger maps, all you have to do is make them take over the center and then rush their statue.

RUMMAKER
01-16-2013, 09:45 PM
i like 8 (am i the only one here who thinks the upgrades are way cheap? u never see a level 1 giant -_-)

xvdaemonicxv
01-16-2013, 09:52 PM
i like 8 (am i the only one here who thinks the upgrades are way cheap? u never see a level 1 giant -_-)

True that. Yes, number 8 is good.

uberman
01-16-2013, 09:59 PM
i like 8 (am i the only one here who thinks the upgrades are way cheap? u never see a level 1 giant -_-)

Yes, way cheap and also way quick to research too!
If I recall the buffs are quicker or as quick as, say, the runspeed buff for crawlers or the pack mentality buff for crawlers.
Speaking from memory, I think giant growth 1 is both cheaper and as fast as either of the two buffs for crawlers.
FFS! how does that work...

WyzDM
01-16-2013, 10:12 PM
Giants are fine the way they are. Instead of complaining about how op they are, just practice methods of eliminating his economy and PREVENTING this "giant-mass-of-destruction-I-haven't-seen-since-I-played-with-another-1500-ranked-player."

Brotherhood
01-16-2013, 11:11 PM
Giants are fine the way they are. Instead of complaining about how op they are, just practice methods of eliminating his economy and PREVENTING this "giant-mass-of-destruction-I-haven't-seen-since-I-played-with-another-1500-ranked-player."

Totally agreed. I'd just like to add that most of these research times and upgrades are the way they are because of the campaign mode this MMO is like. If you take away one of the giant upgrades, the campaign would have been incredibly difficult to beat.

_Ai_
01-16-2013, 11:20 PM
2,3,6,7 is what i like lolz

PsychoticCheez
01-17-2013, 01:36 AM
Unless you're chaos, you can't really complain about E giant spamming. I mean I'd think Chaos has the best counters to E giants anyway but since Tec has it and I don't well I'd take his word over mine on that topic.

But, I mean, you've got the same units available, right? You started out with the same gold, right? So when they beat you it's all of a sudden the game's fault?
They played the better strategy. It's not as "intricate and orchestrated" as yours, but they won, right? They used the better strategy.

As for 7, no. It costs 2000 gold and 1000 mana. Basically, if you've let your opponent spend that much on the ghost without repercussions for himself, it's because you willingly turtled up, or you got beat up into turtling. The ghost giant is the implicit way of saying, "I have outplayed you. Why have you not surrendered yet?"
The ghost giant is what enables people to beat turtles. If it was nerfed, the next thing people will bitch about is that castle archers are too OP and how they can't get past "n00b turtlers!1!!", because the game is imbalanced.

Azxc
01-17-2013, 01:57 AM
1 and 4 are good

increasing the giants price is good!

The giant growth can be more expensive and need longer time to research ( lol Rage needs 60 sec, y giant growth only 20 sec?)

uberman
01-17-2013, 04:05 AM
Unless you're chaos, you can't really complain about E giant spamming. I mean I'd think Chaos has the best counters to E giants anyway but since Tec has it and I don't well I'd take his word over mine on that topic.

But, I mean, you've got the same units available, right? You started out with the same gold, right? So when they beat you it's all of a sudden the game's fault?
They played the better strategy. It's not as "intricate and orchestrated" as yours, but they won, right? They used the better strategy.

What are these best counters you think chaos has?
Chaos has nothing that can counter an E giant for the same resources and population.
Order has 7 swords (less cost and equal population) or an E giant (same cost, same population, obviously).
Chaos giants are simply weaker (not having range) and nothing else for 7 pop or 1500 (gold+mana) can counter the E-giant, IMO.



As for 7, no. It costs 2000 gold and 1000 mana. Basically, if you've let your opponent spend that much on the ghost without repercussions for himself, it's because you willingly turtled up, or you got beat up into turtling. The ghost giant is the implicit way of saying, "I have outplayed you. Why have you not surrendered yet?"
The ghost giant is what enables people to beat turtles. If it was nerfed, the next thing people will bitch about is that castle archers are too OP and how they can't get past "n00b turtlers!1!!", because the game is imbalanced.

Yes, good point and well made.
Ghost 2 is fine as it is. If it's weaker, it should be cheaper. But it is a great tool for busting the defences of a super-turtle :)

Tecness2
01-17-2013, 06:04 AM
These are all really good solutions, honestly Tecness. But just so you realize, this isn't going to prevent "giant spamming" whatsoever.
AND
This isn't going to help players who are losing to "giant spamming" because they aren't losing to the giants... as discussed in my thread.

Also beating an opponent that has castle archer level 3+ plus flyers/giants/archers/mage/ will be super super difficult without some fully upgraded giants to tank the dmg.


Giants are fine the way they are. Instead of complaining about how op they are, just practice methods of eliminating his economy and PREVENTING this "giant-mass-of-destruction-I-haven't-seen-since-I-played-with-another-1500-ranked-player."

So, the number 3rd player, overall, and the number 2nd player, both have ways to counter giant massing and because of that, it's counterable?

http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?49521-FOR-REAL
Daemon, his game, his thread, completely counters your thread on how to beat giant massing. Everything you said that would cause him to lose, didn't happen. He said he had the center, applied pressure, harass the economy, etc. And yet, giants still beat him. Odd.
You may claim that he is the exception, but rather, YOU are the exception.
People can have the center, and apply pressure. As I said, it is not the center, it is the sheer number of giants. You said that the center is another giant. THAT'S WHY HE WINS. Just another giant. Give him another 40 seconds and 1500, and guess what, he doesn't need the center anymore. The center is not what causes a giant masser to win.


Totally agreed. I'd just like to add that most of these research times and upgrades are the way they are because of the campaign mode this MMO is like. If you take away one of the giant upgrades, the campaign would have been incredibly difficult to beat.
That's the campaign....different style of gameplay?

DragonFrost
01-17-2013, 06:58 AM
Why not just start a poll >.>

_Ai_
01-17-2013, 07:01 AM
Totally agreed. I'd just like to add that most of these research times and upgrades are the way they are because of the campaign mode this MMO is like. If you take away one of the giant upgrades, the campaign would have been incredibly difficult to beat.

Dont worry, if they DO nerf it, they won't change the campaign one.

And it's natural for massers to object the idea. Only tops have a way to deal against masser, and they have the necessary skill and an advanced computer that dont lag.
And experience, also ego and pride in their strategy.

Bladed Fire
01-17-2013, 07:08 AM
An idea, get the giant's growth more expensive and research more longer, and split into four upgrades. Make the giant's stone to have a reach limit, after the limit, the rock would fall. Also, make the giants hard to move and move slower than Magikill to prevent kite. Make the giant range shorter, too. At last, there should have a limit of number of giants(like 2-3) or get it's pop up to 20.

_Ai_
01-17-2013, 07:09 AM
An idea, get the giant's growth more expensive and research more longer, and split into four upgrades. Make the giant's stone to have a reach limit, after the limit, the rock would fall. Also, make the giants hard to move and move slower than Magikill to prevent kite. Make the giant range shorter, too. At last, there should have a limit of number of giants(like 2-3) or get it's pop up to 20.

0_o good suggestions

xvdaemonicxv
01-17-2013, 11:09 AM
Unless you're chaos, you can't really complain about E giant spamming. I mean I'd think Chaos has the best counters to E giants anyway but since Tec has it and I don't well I'd take his word over mine on that topic.

But, I mean, you've got the same units available, right? You started out with the same gold, right? So when they beat you it's all of a sudden the game's fault?
They played the better strategy. It's not as "intricate and orchestrated" as yours, but they won, right? They used the better strategy.

As for 7, no. It costs 2000 gold and 1000 mana. Basically, if you've let your opponent spend that much on the ghost without repercussions for himself, it's because you willingly turtled up, or you got beat up into turtling. The ghost giant is the implicit way of saying, "I have outplayed you. Why have you not surrendered yet?"
The ghost giant is what enables people to beat turtles. If it was nerfed, the next thing people will bitch about is that castle archers are too OP and how they can't get past "n00b turtlers!1!!", because the game is imbalanced.

I think I'm in love. COME JOIN MY CLAN PLZ D; LOLL

WyzDM
01-17-2013, 11:12 AM
Unless you're chaos, you can't really complain about E giant spamming. I mean I'd think Chaos has the best counters to E giants anyway but since Tec has it and I don't well I'd take his word over mine on that topic.

But, I mean, you've got the same units available, right? You started out with the same gold, right? So when they beat you it's all of a sudden the game's fault?
They played the better strategy. It's not as "intricate and orchestrated" as yours, but they won, right? They used the better strategy.

As for 7, no. It costs 2000 gold and 1000 mana. Basically, if you've let your opponent spend that much on the ghost without repercussions for himself, it's because you willingly turtled up, or you got beat up into turtling. The ghost giant is the implicit way of saying, "I have outplayed you. Why have you not surrendered yet?"
The ghost giant is what enables people to beat turtles. If it was nerfed, the next thing people will bitch about is that castle archers are too OP and how they can't get past "n00b turtlers!1!!", because the game is imbalanced.

I couldn't agree more...

xvdaemonicxv
01-17-2013, 11:13 AM
So, the number 3rd player, overall, and the number 2nd player, both have ways to counter giant massing and because of that, it's counterable?

http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?49521-FOR-REAL
Daemon, his game, his thread, completely counters your thread on how to beat giant massing. Everything you said that would cause him to lose, didn't happen. He said he had the center, applied pressure, harass the economy, etc. And yet, giants still beat him. Odd.
You may claim that he is the exception, but rather, YOU are the exception.
People can have the center, and apply pressure. As I said, it is not the center, it is the sheer number of giants. You said that the center is another giant. THAT'S WHY HE WINS. Just another giant. Give him another 40 seconds and 1500, and guess what, he doesn't need the center anymore. The center is not what causes a giant masser to win.


That's the campaign....different style of gameplay?

Maybe if you read what I told him and his reply Tecness.


The reason why you lost is becasue he out-teched you. Here read this one:

http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?49448-The-True-Potential-of-Stick-Wars-And-Micro-Macro-Management-(Replay-included)

The main point being, once both players economy are high enough, lower tiered units(such as archers/speartons/etc.) become less viable. You were spending to much money on your archers. Sure you may have been harassing his economy but obviously the damage was not enough to stop his giants.

Something important for you to realize:

1.Archer is 350g.
2.4archers is 1400g.
3.that is 100g short of a giant.
4.I am willing to bet you had more than 4 archers in the very late game.
5.Mid-to late game means teching to higher tiered units, not wasting gold on lower tiered units.

If you're telling me he had the gold income and the army to be able to hide 3-4 giants in his base WITHOUT using them to defend your "harass" your harass was obviously nothing but a small nusiance to him(and your harass sucked, to put it simply).

Also. This game was probably in the very very very late stages seeing as how he had the time to make that many giants. And you're telling me you didn't even bother to tech to giants yourself? What were you spending your better economy(opponent should not have been able to mine 2nd row gold succesfully+you have tower) on? A bunch of low tech units? That is why you lost.

Plus seeing as how you just got back, you're really rusty and you're probably still adapting to the patch. :)


I noticed thanks to daemonic that INDEED i spend too much on archers

Oh Tecness..

And I would like to just throw this in here once more. CrazyJay's response to MY thread that you mentioned earlier.


Great Post Deamonicxv I was getting to the point where I would have to write that out myself but I would say you nailed it.

His thread simply countered my thread because he didn't do the harass right. When I say take tower and harass economy, of course you could do it with 4 archers. Hell you could even harass his mienrs with your miners. But just because he harassed and lost to giants doesn't make giants OP again. There's more than just "take tower, harass economy, win". =_=

It's not that simple. I would know because I am in the top 10, along with Wyzdm. I am sure we are in those spots because we know the game mechanics better than you. What was your rank again? And if you're going to say we're higher ranks cause we exploit giant spamming... Once again, I'd like to bring back CrazyJay's Response on my thread about giant spamming.


Great Post Deamonicxv I was getting to the point where I would have to write that out myself but I would say you nailed it.

Tecness2
01-17-2013, 04:30 PM
Maybe if you read what I told him and his reply Tecness.

Oh Tecness..

And I would like to just throw this in here once more. CrazyJay's response to MY thread that you mentioned earlier.



His thread simply countered my thread because he didn't do the harass right. When I say take tower and harass economy, of course you could do it with 4 archers. Hell you could even harass his mienrs with your miners. But just because he harassed and lost to giants doesn't make giants OP again. There's more than just "take tower, harass economy, win". =_=

It's not that simple. I would know because I am in the top 10, along with Wyzdm. I am sure we are in those spots because we know the game mechanics better than you. What was your rank again? And if you're going to say we're higher ranks cause we exploit giant spamming... Once again, I'd like to bring back CrazyJay's Response on my thread about giant spamming.
You didn't need to quote CrazyJay twice. I can go back and quote him on every good thing he's said about my threads, but hey, why waste my time with that? So, stop trying to throw it around.

As you said 4 archers is 100 gold less than a giant. Well, we already know who wins. Now, 10 archers, even with flame arrows, guess what! I'm pretty sure giants still win. Odd. 350 x 10 = 3500. Not to mention the cost for the flame arrows, the upgrades, and that would be 20 population. All that, against 1700 + 250(?) and 7 population. And yet, the 20 population wins. YET! If we go to the LOWEST tiered offensive unit, a swordwrath, and we put 3500 into swords, the giant will get decimated. Your thing of "you need higher tier units" isn't true.

Also, where are you getting 4 archers out of? People can do a lot of damage with 4 archers and a tower spawn.


Now, let's take a look at Starcraft 2 for a moment, shall we? This game has elements of Starcraft 2 and has several units based off of units in Starcraft 2.
Let's look at the end game units.
Thor < Marines, Banelings, Marauders, Roaches, Immortals, Hydralisks, Sentry support.
Battle Cruiser < Vikings, Corruptors, Pheonix, Carriers, Thors, Hydralisks, Marines, Stalkers.
Ultralisk < Banelings, Broodlords, Mutalisks, Banshees, Void-rays, Carriers
Broodlord < ANY AIR UNIT, MARINES
Colossus < ANY AIR UNIT, Immortals,
Carrier < Marines, Any dedicated anti-air.
E Giants < Mass swordwrath
Giants < A miner and an archer

Note: There are many more counters to the starcraft 2 units, these are just ones that are at the top of my head, and would cost around the same in terms of research, required buildings, build time, and availability.
The point I'm making with this, the units that these units are based off of, all have AMAZING weaknesses, and if they are massed ALONE (Like E Giants are), weather it be early/mid or late game, THEY WILL DIE. Doesn't matter what happens early game. IF you mass nothing but the highest tiered unit like you do with giants, THEY WILL DIE.

Mass Marines/Marauders/Medivacs. MMM. It's an early-late game terran build that is amazing against anything that doesn't hard counter them. Such as a mothership + archons, high templars, siege tanks, a nuke. You know AOE things. They are some of the lowest tier units in starcraft 2, and yet, they are used late game, and they can & will win.



http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?49678-A-REPLAY-AGAINST-GIANTS
As your good friend Wyz has proved, the only thing that is extremely effective against giants(with the exception of mass crawlers or swordwrath), IS MORE GIANTS. Sure support from merics and a magikill help, but more giants would win.

As you have ALSO said, "It's the tower that wins the game" BUT then you later contradict yourself. You claim the tower is what wins the game. The tower is a bonus in cash for 20 gold every 5 seconds. What really wins the game, when you say tower, IS ANOTHER GIANT (in this case, the ghost giant). NOT the tower. So, as I said, giant massing, is overpowered.

Bladed Fire
01-17-2013, 05:15 PM
Gonna have a counter about:
Giants(7) And one ghost giant
Giants with Speartons in shield wall
Giants with Merics that cures
Giants with Magikill
Giants with Cloaking Shadowraths
Giants with Albowtrosses and Archidons
Giants with walls and castle archers + ghost giant

xvdaemonicxv
01-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Tecness, youre ignorance and to put it very very bluntly stupidity amazes me. I am baffled. I can't/don't know how to even counter the stupid argument you made cause it's just that stupid.


'Your thing of "you need higher tier units" isn't true'-Tecness.

People, how do you argue against that when his proof/evidence to back that statement up is so solid. I mean, wow.

Someone help me with this as I have just lost the mental capacity to argue back cause im in such a stupor.

DragonFrost
01-17-2013, 06:02 PM
Well, his example of giant<mass swords. It doesn't always have to be giants as high tier. Albows would technically considered high tier, right? Tell me what kind of counter using low tier units against mass albows with blazing bolts. Note: archers/speartons don't work, as lots of albows could PWN the speartons EASILY. Then finish the archers. Also, spearton is mid-tier unit, correct?

Brotherhood
01-17-2013, 06:15 PM
Well, the new update is out...

-Giant upgrade I now takes 40 seconds and costs 200 gold and 200 mana
-Giant upgrade II now takes 60 seconds and costs 400 gold and 400 mana

I think it costs too much mana. 150 for tier 1 and 300 for tier 2 would have been more reasonable.

ShadowyWhisper
01-17-2013, 06:24 PM
Okay, I was recently discussing this with a buddy of mine and I decided to make it a thread.
Here are several solutions, to somewhat nerf, Giant massing.

Solution 1:

Incrementally increase the price of giants with a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will once again, be 1600. The prices are just an example.


Solution 2:

Incrementally increase the price of giants without a reset. That means, the first giant is 1500, the second giant is 1600, the third giant is 1700. If you have 3 giants, and two die, then the next giant you build, will be 1800. There of course would be a maximum price, in this example, it would be 2500. That means, the giants are worth more, so don't let them die.

Solution 3:

Remove the third tier of giants. Very simple.


Solution 4:

Increase the price per level. A normal, level 1 giant, is 1500 - 0 - 7. A giant, after the first upgrade, is 1750 - 75 - 8. A giant, after the third upgrade, is 2000 - 150 - 9.


Solution 5:

Decrease the effects of the tiers. Miami has suggested that the maximum giant has 70% more health, and I believe he also has around 10% more damage than a standard giant. Make it, so the maximum giant only has 40% more health and keep the damage. Making them more of a support & tank unit, rather than the main army.


Solution 6:

Nerf the numbers! Do the opposite of Pack Mentality. If you have two giants, then their health & attack are both reduced by 5%. If you have three, then it's 10%. Four is 15%. Five is 20%.


Solution 7:

Make the ghost giant, either stay at level 1, or a maximum of level 2.


Solution 8:

Drastically increase the price of the tier upgrades.




All the numbers in here are only examples and can change.
These solutions are also only suggestions, parts of them can change.
I like solutions 1,4, & 7.

Well apparently CrazyJay thought it was a good idea to raise the Growth price so now the matches take 3 minutes rather than 2. Not much of a difference, as I usually win by killing my opponent's miners, most of them, or preventing them from mining.

I think there is a problem with the pairing system as I just played someone who was 1003, and I only gained 1 point. He SUCKED, he even asked me how to build a castle archer to kill my 4 Speartons that were charging...

FailingAtFailing
01-17-2013, 06:30 PM
Well, the new update is out...

-Giant upgrade I now takes 40 seconds and costs 200 gold and 200 mana
-Giant upgrade II now takes 60 seconds and costs 400 gold and 400 mana

I think it costs too much mana. 150 for tier 1 and 300 for tier 2 would have been more reasonable.

By the time I have my army built with some speartons, archers and swordwrath, I have a few hundred mana. So....... yea

Tecness2
01-17-2013, 06:33 PM
Gonna have a counter about:
Giants(7) And one ghost giant
Giants with Speartons in shield wall
Giants with Merics that cures
Giants with Magikill
Giants with Cloaking Shadowraths
Giants with Albowtrosses and Archidons
Giants with walls and castle archers + ghost giant
Mass swords.
Mass swords with ranged units/air units.
Mass swords.
Mass swords with a ninja or two.
Mass swords with air units.
...Well you're fucked.
..He has the tower, walls, and castle archers. You're fucked. This has to be on castle.


Tecness, youre ignorance and to put it very very bluntly stupidity amazes me. I am baffled. I can't/don't know how to even counter the stupid argument you made cause it's just that stupid.

People, how do you argue against that when his proof/evidence to back that statement up is so solid. I mean, wow.

Someone help me with this as I have just lost the mental capacity to argue back cause im in such a stupor.
Your* You're also missing several comma's. Also, double negative. Two stupids equals a smart.
Notice how he hasn't actually argued with me.
I'm sure you'll think of something.
The only time you NEED a higher tier of unit, is if he has 2 walls, and 3 castle archers. Then you can move from swords + archers, to spears + monks + crossbows.


Well, his example of giant<mass swords. It doesn't always have to be giants as high tier. Albows would technically considered high tier, right? Tell me what kind of counter using low tier units against mass albows with blazing bolts. Note: archers/speartons don't work, as lots of albows could PWN the speartons EASILY. Then finish the archers. Also, spearton is mid-tier unit, correct?
Well BuddyLucky's army of archidons, focus firing with flaming arrows, as swordwrath tanked my flying crossbowmen's shots, seemed to do well. Especially since his archers outnumbered my flying crossbows, almost 2:1

Bladed Fire
01-17-2013, 06:47 PM
By the time I have my army built with some speartons, archers and swordwrath, I have a few hundred mana. So....... yea

Lose to giant spammers all the time... And at last I met Fail, who is very kind to give me some points. :p