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jli
01-16-2013, 07:18 PM
I recently was playing a game in which I was frequently AFK because people get bothering me to go see something "fascinating" (oooh, sugar caramelizes, how amazing). I realized that the opponent was using an interesting strategy. I'm not sure how he started, but I think he opened by training 3 miners, setting two on praying, and 3 on mining. Then, he spammed shadowrath, got shinobi, assassinated my archer, took tower, bought ghost, and spammed more shadowrath. Obviously, being both a beginner and distracted by my friend's fascination with his Chem 1 experiment, my own defense was probably not so good. Still, I think it could be interesting to look at.

http://pastebin.com/6dEV2n6Z

Tecness2
01-16-2013, 08:14 PM
Try not to use the word spam in the title.

jli
01-16-2013, 09:07 PM
OK, sorry about that!

DragonFrost
01-17-2013, 08:09 AM
Didn't watch it, and I understand that you were distracted a such, but next time someone masses ninjas, send an albow over XD and walls plus 3 castles if they decide to charge at statue.

PsychoticCheez
01-17-2013, 09:54 AM
Giant spam is a brilliant way to counter shadowrath spam. Giants stun them so their speed is irrevant, and it takes a lot of shinobi to down a giant, and it gets harder when giants are in a mass.

If you can't afford a giant yet, though, invest heavily into archers and raged-up swordwrath. Think about it.

ShadowyWhisper
01-17-2013, 02:24 PM
Giant spam is a brilliant way to counter shadowrath spam. Giants stun them so their speed is irrevant, and it takes a lot of shinobi to down a giant, and it gets harder when giants are in a mass.

If you can't afford a giant yet, though, invest heavily into archers and raged-up swordwrath. Think about it.

Spamming ShadowWrath is not something to consider trying. If you put a Spearton against a ShadowWrath, the result is both dying simultaneously. So basically, if you see your opponent spamming ShadowWrath, anything, even raged SwordWrath will defeat them.

Unless, of course, 40 miners.

WyzDM
01-19-2013, 12:57 AM
I was frequently AFK.
Then, he spammed shadowrath, got shinobi, assassinated my archer, took tower, bought ghost, and spammed more shadowrath.
I was frequently AFK.
I was AFK.
AFK.


Well not much serious play I can really pull out from here. In a real match with you using your wits I doubt any of it would come to be (unless you planned to sit back idly from the start).

Because you mentioned the above, I didn't bother to look at the replay. Ninjas have potential, but allowing him to harass you with enough of only a single type of unit and quickly following into defeat is pitiful.

PsychoticCheez
01-19-2013, 08:37 AM
Spamming ShadowWrath is not something to consider trying. If you put a Spearton against a ShadowWrath, the result is both dying simultaneously. So basically, if you see your opponent spamming ShadowWrath, anything, even raged SwordWrath will defeat them.

Unless, of course, 40 miners.

If anyone spams ninjas and decides not to rush your statue, you're playing against someone terrible.

Or they're having a little fun with you.

FailingAtFailing
01-19-2013, 09:13 AM
My tip: Remember that ninjas can only hit one unit at a time. This also applies to giant massers (if they still exist)

So basically Swordwrath with rage. If they're going for your statue, resilience. ALWAYS get resilience. Castle Archers take them out since melee units all have to group together to attack the statue. Castle Archer splash damage will RAPE them. And magikill. Explosion on ninjas attacking your statue or electric wall. I notice spammers think they can destroy your statue fast so they ignore your units.

ShadowyWhisper
01-19-2013, 12:16 PM
My tip: Remember that ninjas can only hit one unit at a time. This also applies to giant massers (if they still exist)

So basically Swordwrath with rage. If they're going for your statue, resilience. ALWAYS get resilience. Castle Archers take them out since melee units all have to group together to attack the statue. Castle Archer splash damage will RAPE them. And magikill. Explosion on ninjas attacking your statue or electric wall. I notice spammers think they can destroy your statue fast so they ignore your units.


Well, 3 Castle Archers did nothing to my 6 Giants crushing the statue.

FailingAtFailing
01-19-2013, 02:48 PM
Well, 3 Castle Archers did nothing to my 6 Giants crushing the statue.

Notice how we were talking about ninjas? A Castle Archers in my situation were for melee units. Enslaved giants aren't melee units.

DragonFrost
01-19-2013, 04:24 PM
CHAOS GIANTS ARE! And they have the same hp as order giant, i believe.

FailingAtFailing
01-19-2013, 04:26 PM
CHAOS GIANTS ARE! And they have the same hp as order giant, i believe.

Chaos giants have lots of health, but they're so bad. I could dodge one's attacks with an enslaved giant. You know a unit is bad when.....

Bladed Fire
01-19-2013, 06:47 PM
Just fought a player who masses albowtrosses and swordwraths. I lost. And we meet 2 more times after that. I continously won 2 battles and get the 1470+ rating... gonna get 1500+...

stickman311
01-19-2013, 07:06 PM
By the time they have 3 ninjas i have 1 giant

PUMU
01-20-2013, 10:07 AM
I personally use my ninjas to harass and control enemy progression and economy.
1st I train 1 miner to pray and two sword wrath
2nd send 1 swordwrath to scout and attempt to gain control of tower.
3rd if enemy advances train 3rd swordwrath. Dependent on if the opponent trains an early spearton if not 3 a 4th unit will suffice I usually don't have this happen often though
4th if the opponent doesn't advance train 2 more miners both set on gold collection.
By this time you should have enough to purchase shadowrath and shinobi lvl 1
Garrison shadowrath until cloak is finished. Send him out to scout and see what the opponent is doing and assassinate any prayers after a few seconds of harassing miners the opponent will more than likely want a quick solution to counter the ninja. More than likely this will come in the form of a spearton. Continue harassing miners if the opponent thinks u will retreat. But what I do is combat the spearton until low on health then retreat seeing as the longer a ninja battles the more damage it will do often leading to the ninja coming out the victor. But if not and the spearton decides to persue the swordwrath should take care of him. The next thing I go for mind u during the time that I am harassing I am and already have researched miners and miner hustle or tower spawn dependent on the situation. More than likely however the opponent will prepare for more ninja harassment and will research either more spearton, albowtrosses or castle archidons. I don't like necessarily massing ninjas. The next thing I do in almost any situation is train albowtross. After training albow, I research shinobi 2. I don't usually wait for it to finish. I send out my garrison marinating shadowrath passed any enemy line. If the enemy has built a wall this is no cause for alarm just reason enough to send my ninja back to either the statue or garrison dependent upon whether or not he has taken damage. Research giant growth next along with a giant to give it purpose XD. More than likely the tower spawn is pecking away at the wall. Once giant finishes training or even during the training process train 2 more albowtross which by now should have learned blazing bolts sent the two new Albows along with the medium sized giant to the center. If the opponent has massed speartons build a couple walls to defend miners and speartons shouldn't be to much of a problem. Also dependent on whether or not statue has resilience. Spawn a couple more shadowrath. For me to deal with mass speartons using my control approach is have the 3 or more shadowrath cloak and rape a spearton. Keep attacking until a unit of mine is low on health because the opponent will most likely be annoyed by the presence of the ninjas and have all his/her units target one at a time. Whilst the other shadowrath giant and albowtross and more than likely the tower spawn will still be there continue to atk. During this period of combatance the shadowrath should have killed at least 5 speartons poisoned 2 others before retreating then the giant now fully grown tower spawn and Albows should deal with the rest. By this time the opponent should surrender. Then again the game has many variables

PUMU
01-20-2013, 10:11 AM
Well, 3 Castle Archers did nothing to my 6 Giants crushing the statue.

Well then more than likely u haven't had units harass your economy you were most likely playing against blazing bolts or speartons who couldn't get their defense out fast enough.

DragonFrost
01-20-2013, 10:29 AM
...don't double post please.
TL;dr @post #17

DiPi
01-20-2013, 10:29 AM
against ninja spammer the best things would be these

-On offence
Albows only. If you have the middle then pressure your opponent thanks to ghost spawn and when he retreats inside attack his statue
if it goes well you should be able to destroy his statue when he understands it's too late to fight back

-On defence
make 2 magikill, miner wall, castle archer and if you want you can keep some albows
useless to say what you need to do when he attacks

if he attacks, sees that you're fortified and tries to get the middle, use albows to make him change idea
if instead he uses his last resources on giants, use always albows: some micromanagement and you should be able to inflict a lot of damage (if you're lucky you could be able to kill it)

YQ2012
01-20-2013, 11:38 AM
My tip: Remember that ninjas can only hit one unit at a time. This also applies to giant massers (if they still exist)

So basically Swordwrath with rage. If they're going for your statue, resilience. ALWAYS get resilience. Castle Archers take them out since melee units all have to group together to attack the statue. Castle Archer splash damage will RAPE them. And magikill. Explosion on ninjas attacking your statue or electric wall. I notice spammers think they can destroy your statue fast so they ignore your units.

Never forget the miner wall as well...2 of em...

PUMU
01-20-2013, 07:16 PM
against ninja spammer the best things would be these

-On offence
Albows only. If you have the middle then pressure your opponent thanks to ghost spawn and when he retreats inside attack his statue
if it goes well you should be able to destroy his statue when he understands it's too late to fight back

-On defence
make 2 magikill, miner wall, castle archer and if you want you can keep some albows
useless to say what you need to do when he attacks

if he attacks, sees that you're fortified and tries to get the middle, use albows to make him change idea
if instead he uses his last resources on giants, use always albows: some micromanagement and you should be able to inflict a lot of damage (if you're lucky you could be able to kill it)

I have a problem with the defense quote. Training 2 magikill would take some time and if I were to be on a short map with my Albows at the tower and I saw this shinobi lvl 2 will smash the wall in progress and the magikills have such low armor and health they will get raped. I see that as a waste of 1200 gold and 1000 mana which prolly coulda gone towards some Albows or tower lvl 2 or giant train and growth if not already researched. And everyone seems to think that the castle archers are a great solution, whereas a group of cloaked shadowrath are able to absorb this damage and make a retreat without much of a scathe due to their speed. Also a tip I saw posted earlier kinda made me want to close my laptop and go running with sharp blades. The tip said remember that ninjas can only hit one unit at a time. I'm assuming this wasn't thought through but almost all units in the order archetype hit one unit at a time except for magikill and castle archidons if they count as units. Editing one more time because I don't want people to look at this post and tell me that I used an improper word in one of my sentences when said people should assume the obvious. I didn't mean to use the word absorb I meant to put avoid the castle archidons arrows long enough to assassinate the units I desire and then retreat. The aoe property of the castle archidons arrows seems to apply mostly to very low armored units like swordwrath, normal archidons and ( albowtross )but on a lesser scale. The castle archidons however succeed in preventing my ninjas from doing further damage to defending units and miners

Kincaid1
01-21-2013, 03:55 PM
Giant spam is a brilliant way to counter shadowrath spam. Giants stun them so their speed is irrevant, and it takes a lot of shinobi to down a giant, and it gets harder when giants are in a mass.

If you can't afford a giant yet, though, invest heavily into archers and raged-up swordwrath. Think about it.

Not really, a couple of Shadowwrath with Shinobi 1 or 2 can easily down a fully upgraded giant, so a full army of Shadowwraths vs 7 or 8 Giants (I think 7 Giants is maximum) with Shinobi could probably take on a Giant Masser easily.

FailingAtFailing
01-21-2013, 04:09 PM
Not really, a couple of Shadowwrath with Shinobi 1 or 2 can easily down a fully upgraded giant, so a full army of Shadowwraths vs 7 or 8 Giants (I think 7 Giants is maximum) with Shinobi could probably take on a Giant Masser easily.

11 giants is max, but an army of shadows could take down atleast a few of the giants.

DragonFrost
01-21-2013, 04:15 PM
max amount of ninjas at 1 possible time: 20.

PUMU
01-21-2013, 11:32 PM
Yet no one responded to me ;(

Kincaid1
01-22-2013, 07:32 AM
So...20 Shadowraths with Shinobi 1 or 2 vs 11 full grown Giants...it really depends whether or not the Shadowwraths have Shinobi 2 or 1, because 2 does more damage, so if the 20 Shadowwraths had Shinobi 2...mhm, I can't really say who win, it's a close call.

DragonFrost
01-22-2013, 08:03 AM
IMO, 11 giants would win, but I'm not sure

neckromorph
01-22-2013, 08:18 AM
normaly a shadowarth why atk the statue than the giant

DragonFrost
01-22-2013, 08:26 AM
Why would the giants just go attack the opponents statue? Assuming the giant masser turtled, then the ninjas wouldn't last long.

PUMU
01-22-2013, 11:36 AM
does anyone have anything to say about what i said?!?!

Kincaid1
01-22-2013, 06:00 PM
Why would the giants just go attack the opponents statue? Assuming the giant masser turtled, then the ninjas wouldn't last long.

I'm gonna do 3 tests with a friend sometime, I'd have max Shadows, he'd have max Giants, we would both have no Resilence, Middle Tower, Passive Income, Miner Hustle, and Miner Walls, the 2nd test will be the same except my Shadows will have Shinobi 1, the final 3rd test would be the same, but my Shadows would have Shinobi 2. All our units would be perfectly lined up so the experiment would be perfect.

Invincitron
01-22-2013, 06:10 PM
Giant spam is a brilliant way to counter shadowrath spam. Giants stun them so their speed is irrevant, and it takes a lot of shinobi to down a giant, and it gets harder when giants are in a mass.

If you can't afford a giant yet, though, invest heavily into archers and raged-up swordwrath. Think about it.

Hi reader,

1 problem.... Shadowrath run past them with Shinobi attack statue, before you know it your dead... never fails even with 3 Castle Archidons, 2 Walls, Resliance, and 11 Giants at base...

.:Invincitron:.

DragonFrost
01-22-2013, 06:20 PM
Actually, I stopped like 15 ninjas rushing at my statue with 3 castles, 2 walls, and resilience. They did like 1/10 of the damage. Also, I had like 2 albows with blazing bolts.

Kincaid1
01-23-2013, 06:50 AM
Hi reader,

1 problem.... Shadowrath run past them with Shinobi attack statue, before you know it your dead... never fails even with 3 Castle Archidons, 2 Walls, Resliance, and 11 Giants at base...

.:Invincitron:.

If that's a glitch, they need to fix it.

ShadowyWhisper
01-23-2013, 07:36 PM
Fix it indeed. Because I'm not going to make a new strategy based on some stupid Shinobi rushing past me. Say, why don't I try spamming SHADOWWRATH. I'll try it on Grass Hills.

DragonFrost
01-23-2013, 07:40 PM
LULULULLLLLL Do that. I want to see you rake up losses.

ShadowyWhisper
01-24-2013, 03:05 PM
Yep just lost 2 now I'm 24/3. :(

XJAWZ
01-24-2013, 03:18 PM
lol. Ninjas usually dont work against an adaptive opponent.

Kincaid1
01-25-2013, 07:05 AM
lol. Ninjas usually dont work against an adaptive opponent.

True, if the enemy knows your strategy, he can either make a better version of it, or counter it with a different strategy.

Juice Box
01-26-2013, 05:12 AM
Spamming Shadowrath, the only problem there is how expensive they are. 450 Gold and 150 mana is a lot, if you think of it.

Bladed Fire
01-26-2013, 05:51 AM
The shadowrath massers had spoiled the real identity of Shadowrath: Assasinate the enemy and get rid of spellcasters. Anyways, I just used 1 shadowrath to destroy one's economy.

Tecness2
01-26-2013, 10:31 AM
Well, a good way to counter it, get castle archer, at least level 2, get some albowtross, walls, statue resilience and take the middle when you have several albowtross. They can't attack your air, so they will most likely run to your statue, which they will die from the castle archers & walls(you may need to also attack with your miners as well).

ShadowyWhisper
01-27-2013, 03:23 PM
Well, I've never encountered this but I guess you should probably make 2 Walls and a few Castle Archers. Maybe a Magikill. Also, ShadowWrath take a long time to load, so you should be able to attack him before he has enough.

Kincaid1
01-27-2013, 03:37 PM
Good idea.

jerrytt
01-27-2013, 04:53 PM
I just fought someone using ninja/archer spam with me using albows+2 giants. I had the middle, ghost giant 2, and basically forced him to perma garrison. Yet he seemed to be able to refresh his troops (prob had passive income) It was basically a stalemate. he had enough firepower to insta kill a giant, but decided to charge my statue. I had already bought a magikill and walls so his shadowwrath died. But im sure if he fought against me with his army I would have lost. Them archers:O

Kincaid1
01-28-2013, 03:45 PM
XD

ShadowyWhisper
01-28-2013, 04:36 PM
So I get banned for putting "I love cookies" and he doesn't get banned for this...

Bladed Fire
01-28-2013, 07:02 PM
3 Archidons kill a Shadowrath. REALLY. I used it before, of course the player is rushing.

ShadowyWhisper
01-28-2013, 07:32 PM
What's the point of spending 1050 gold on Archidon when you can get 2 Spearton or 2 ShadowWrath? Really...

Bladed Fire
01-28-2013, 07:49 PM
What's the point of spending 1050 gold on Archidon when you can get 2 Spearton or 2 ShadowWrath? Really...

Of course, it's a combination... I send my Archidons to attack his base... And my economy is good enough plus Speartons and Shadowrath's loading time was too long.

ShadowyWhisper
01-29-2013, 06:57 AM
Stacking will take even longer, since you're loading the same unit.

Kincaid1
01-30-2013, 04:06 PM
If you semi-turtle or turtle you could be able to build a good army of Shadowwrath.

ShadowyWhisper
02-01-2013, 04:35 PM
Try not to use the word spam in the title.

What's wrong about that?

DiPi
02-01-2013, 04:53 PM
all "spams" are easy to get if you follow these guidelines

1-Get the middle
you must always be on offense

2-Keep your enemy's economy at the minimum
simply make him retreat many times or kill them so that he'll retreat (remember though to do this only when you don't lose even a unit for it)

3-"Spam" a good offensive unit
very hard to disturb your enemy with sowrdswraths while he has castle archers

4-Make him retreat often
in this way you'll see if he hides some units (magikills, giants...) inside his castle

5-Kill his units
don't only focus on his miners: killing units is a good way to slow down his progress too (especially if he makes giants (kill them before they become more than 1-2)

6-Make some other different units
so that you can counter him if he does something (es. when spamming albows, make 2 ninja: if he uses a magikill he's done for)

ShadowyWhisper
02-01-2013, 05:37 PM
all "spams" are easy to get if you follow these guidelines

3-"Spam" a good offensive unit
very hard to disturb your enemy with sowrdswraths while he has castle archers


Lol, so you have a guide to defeat spamming units, but your solution is to spam units.

FailingAtFailing
02-01-2013, 07:29 PM
Lol, so you have a guide to defeat spamming units, but your solution is to spam units.

Fighting fire with fire. Using spam to fight spam actually works. Giant spam beats albow spam. Spearton spam (or swordwrath with rage spam) beats giant spam.

Spam beats spam.

ShadowyWhisper
02-01-2013, 09:26 PM
Firefight,"Oh, I'm going to use fire to put out this dreadful fire that is burning down these citizens."

DiPi
02-02-2013, 12:44 AM
Lol, so you have a guide to defeat spamming units, but your solution is to spam units.

hmm, no

the solution is to cause causalities in the enemy lines every time your ghost spawns

ShadowyWhisper
02-02-2013, 08:38 AM
Then perhaps remove that part about spams...

DiPi
02-02-2013, 08:50 AM
Then perhaps remove that part about spams...

hmm, why? I think you can spam units too, if you keep him under pressure

Kincaid1
02-02-2013, 09:37 PM
If you have the enemy constantly retreat and you keep harassing his economy, you'll do good the rest of the round..........possibly.

ShadowyWhisper
02-03-2013, 07:53 PM
Well, we were just talking about some new things, as everyone already talked about yours. For Giant Spam, get

4 Giants, 3 Healers, 2 Spearton, and 4 Allbowtross. Maybe a Magikill if you have enough population left.