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WyzDM
02-04-2013, 09:58 PM
What exactly happened with clans? Everyone was confident they could make a clan and lead, and now we're having trouble pulling together planned events, never mind regular activity. Do you wonder what's going on? I don't. Before I address that, there's something else that needs to happen.

Clans need a new beginning with a fresh start. When I say start, I mean it starting over, rebuilding from scratch.

What are we going to define as a clan? If five of you come together, does that make you a clan? In my opinion, no. In many games a clan is at least ten members. This helps with regular activity during your prime hours. What makes prime hours? Base yourselves around a timezone. My clan is EST/CST based. We have a member from Egypt and another from Malaysia, but we have 12 members. This balances the equation, and helps produce player activity. During our hours of 5-10, we have as many as three to six on at a time, not including four members on an absence leave, two of those being ranks. How do we manage to kick it? We're organized, we have leadership, and we have goals. We're still actively recruiting, and reviewing new applicants every day. Your clan should be like this. I don't want to sound like I'm the only one doing it right, but I'm the only one doing anything right now, and if you want some advice with a clan that's actually thriving, read this carefully.


Let's address some of the problems right now. I'm about to hit nails on the head, so if you'd rather not feel convicted... go back to your general SE forums and watch some replays. I'm not giving a tl;dr at the bottom.

If you currently don't have 10 members, don't give up, but consider your options. If you're having trouble recruiting, trouble staying active, or trouble anywhere else, you may want to think about a merge. It was voted this was a bad idea in the past, and we (by that I mean clan leaders) thought it would be a walk in the park to keep clans alive. I'm sure you can agree the fire's dying. But it doesn't have to. If you think you can meet a 10 player base by the end of this week, go for it. That's a challenge I'm issuing. If some of you have that, get a timezone base down. Maybe half of your clan is on the other side of the planet. You as leaders have the responsibility of your clan. It's not your members, it's not how nothing seems to be working for everyone else, it's you.

xvDaemonicvx founded Team Zenith, but suddenly posted an inactive topic and was off. I haven't seen in him days. He's poked his head in once in the last week and a half. Needless to say, I had some big shoes to fill. But I got everything set up. I made the application format, made the forums, made the events, even roped in a third of our recruits. But this isn't about me. I'm not bragging it as an accomplishment. It's what all of us should be doing as leaders.

I'm sick of retiring threads, and if you're reading this I'm sure you are too. We know who's gone. But that's because they underestimated the work that would be required of leading. If you're a clan leader right now, and you're questioning the state of your clan; your members, your activity, your own leadership, I want to tell you something. You need to constantly ask yourself what can you be doing, because there is always something. You need a lot of time, a lot of focus, a lot of patience, and can't ever think of stopping anything for a moment. Only if you're ready to give in is that the time to step down.

Here at Zenith, we do have a grueling application process, but that's because we can. Right now, you should all be roping in anyone you meet. Those are players you're paired with in ranked matches to your friend across the street. I don't want any of you flooding my app feed tonight or tomorrow over this either. If your clan is in shambles, rebuild it. Give me something to stay alive for. I've been lurking in clan chats, and they've been dead for a good week. I want that to change. When I start floating around offering preps and mini, don't blow me off because I'm in a higher league. Frankly, I'm not a higher league. I'm running a clan like everyone else. I know events keep clans alive. What are we together for if we aren't going to do anything? Prove to me I'm not the only clan out there that's busy. I have a challenge spot in the forums that's been empty since our creation. I don't care if it's scary looking, we're friendly people and if you hook us up, we'll have fun. Win or lose, we'll both walk away with a smile, and perhaps have learned something. But most importantly, we did something.

uberman
02-05-2013, 03:58 AM
So you are suggesting;

All clans should have (or in the near future get) 10 or more members, or merge to form a clan with 10 or more members.

All clans should have a prefered time zone - does that mean if a player cant meet the time zone for a clan (i.e. be active at that time) he/she should not be in that clan?

All clans need to do stuff together - not win stuff, just DO stuff. This can be compete with other clans, or have organised training sessions or what ever - an inactive clan is a dead or dying clan.

malbence
02-05-2013, 04:02 AM
Hahha clever tl;dr you made there, uberman!

Anyways personally I have no input on this, as I have no interest in clans, but I don't see anything wrong with what you're saying, as long as people with more inconvenient time-zones can still play and participate in clans actively.

kingkickass2013
02-05-2013, 06:13 AM
he is proposing we restart all clans. so that all clans that are opened up now vanish, to make new ones in order to create well..........order

WyzDM
02-05-2013, 06:49 AM
So you are suggesting;

All clans should have (or in the near future get) 10 or more members, or merge to form a clan with 10 or more members.

Yes, because having a really small player bases is responsible for some of the problems we're facing with clan events.


All clans should have a prefered time zone - does that mean if a player cant meet the time zone for a clan (i.e. be active at that time) he/she should not be in that clan?

Not at all. You're not in our timezone, and I hope you don't go elsewhere. But if half our members were in your position, it would be a bit of a problem, no? You're one of the most active on forums and participate when you're around, and I'm glad you're with us


All clans need to do stuff together - not win stuff, just DO stuff. This can be compete with other clans, or have organised training sessions or what ever - an inactive clan is a dead or dying clan.

Yes. Many clans are sitting around doing nothing. This should change.


he is proposing we restart all clans. so that all clans that are opened up now vanish, to make new ones in order to create well..........order

I'm not saying they should fold, but if they're having problems they should either come together or get their act straight.

DragonFrost
02-05-2013, 07:00 AM
^^ a good proposition.

Triss
02-05-2013, 07:06 AM
Why don't we make a rule? Probably like this.
1.A clan should have at least 5 members to be considered as an official clan.
2.The clan leader must always active, and if he doesn't log on for a week, the clan was disbanded.
3.A clan that never joined any event or make some thread, will be disbanded(1 month deadline)

WyzDM
02-05-2013, 07:15 AM
Why don't we make a rule? Probably like this.
1.A clan should have at least 5 members to be considered as an official clan.
2.The clan leader must always active, and if he doesn't log on for a week, the clan was disbanded.
3.A clan that never joined any event or make some thread, will be disbanded(1 month deadline)

We pretty much have those rules, but I personally think 5 is too small of a number (unless you're just starting out, but you should be taking in recruits everyday). To be officially established as a clan, you need to already be producing some kind of activity. It's a step by step process of building, and it's being rushed or skipped.

DragonFrost
02-05-2013, 07:16 AM
But it's hard to use enjin controls on my IPad T.T btw I'm busy today (concert, basketball, school, etc)

uberman
02-05-2013, 09:34 AM
Yes, because having a really small player bases is responsible for some of the problems we're facing with clan events.

Yes, I agree. And mergers are one very practical solution to the problem.
May have to drop one leader to a normal member or admin, obviously.



Not at all. You're not in our timezone, and I hope you don't go elsewhere. But if half our members were in your position, it would be a bit of a problem, no? You're one of the most active on forums and participate when you're around, and I'm glad you're with us

Thats what I hoped you'd say. I don't want to be forced out by time zone considerations :)



Yes. Many clans are sitting around doing nothing. This should change.



I'm not saying they should fold, but if they're having problems they should either come together or get their act straight.

Yes.

WyzDM
02-05-2013, 09:37 AM
May have to drop one leader to a normal member or admin, obviously.

Having multiple leaders isn't bad. While I plan a lot at Zenith, we're slowly reaching the point where ranks will have different responsibilities. To have a few leaders can be a good thing, as long as you have the member base to match.

uberman
02-05-2013, 09:39 AM
Having multiple leaders isn't bad. While I plan a lot at Zenith, we're slowly reaching the point where ranks will have different responsibilities. To have a few leaders can be a good thing, as long as you have the member base to match.

Yes, as long as the leaders see eye-to-eye, you and Daemon do a great team work because you get on. Just thinking out loud :)

StickWarrior14
02-05-2013, 03:38 PM
Let's be honest guys. Like with every other game that does not have clan-supported features, the clans will die in a matter of time. So unless CrazyJay somehow made SE have clan-supported functions, (ie: Make a clan in the game.) clans will not last. (Let's not mention how clans will be built into a game that's not designed to have more than 2 ppl play 1 game.)


Of course, do not give your hopes up. The game is only in beta so there's a small population of people playing this, and there may be more ingame features later on. (Like clans)


But imo, there will never be any clans that will last for a long time in this game as it progresses unless there are ingame-features that support clans.

KrayZStick
02-05-2013, 04:00 PM
We just restarted the Dragon's Den :/

WyzDM
02-05-2013, 04:01 PM
Let's be honest guys. Like with every other game that does not have clan-supported features, the clans will die in a matter of time. So unless CrazyJay somehow made SE have clan-supported functions, (ie: Make a clan in the game.) clans will not last. (Let's not mention how clans will be built into a game that's not designed to have more than 2 ppl play 1 game.)


Of course, do not give your hopes up. The game is only in beta so there's a small population of people playing this, and there may be more ingame features later on. (Like clans)


But imo, there will never be any clans that will last for a long time in this game as it progresses unless there are ingame-features that support clans.

We don't need clan functions (although they would be nice) to have clans. What we need is activity. It's not dying because it's a 1v1 game. I could make a list of games that hold teams and clans and can only support 2 players against each other.

By the way, Team Zenith isn't going anywhere, so watch out. :)

StickWarrior14
02-05-2013, 04:30 PM
We don't need clan functions (although they would be nice) to have clans. Never said that you do not need clan functions to have clans. I said that they will not last for a long time without some sort of official clan-feature for SE.

What we need is activity. It's not dying because it's a 1v1 game. I didn't said clans are dying due to it being a 1v1 game. That statement goes with how difficult it will be to add clan-features to a 1v1 game like this. I do agree with your statement that you need activity for a successful clan. (Which will be kind of difficult to obtain since the game is only in beta.) But it can only go so long if there is no incentive for the clan members in SE. Why would they participate in clan-events if they do not gain anything in the game other than pride?

I could make a list of games that hold teams and clans and can only support 2 players against each other. Compare that list to all the MMORPG games (Or even shooter games.) out there with clan-like or team-like features. And again, I did not say it is not impossible to have clans in 1v1 based games. And again, we're talking about SE, not another game.

By the way, Team Zenith isn't going anywhere, so watch out. :)
I will. 0.o

In bold ^

WyzDM
02-05-2013, 06:37 PM
Stuff

You contradicted yourself a few times and have missed completely what I'm getting at. I'm not here to argue how there should or shouldn't be clans. I'm here saying that if you want them, leaders need to do something. That's all. I'm not going to debate with you.

DragonFrost
02-05-2013, 08:20 PM
But I love debates :D

_Ai_
02-05-2013, 11:15 PM
And TGC ain't going anywhere.

uberman
02-06-2013, 01:16 AM
Yup.
Zenith and TGC seem pretty solid clans. But the others, less so. Maybe the leaders need to consider merging into just 1 or 2 much larger clans so we'd have 3 or 4 solid, sizable, active clans...

DragonFrost
02-06-2013, 07:06 AM
Thats smart! DD is kinda, small clan...

uberman
02-06-2013, 07:55 AM
Thats smart! DD is kinda, small clan...

Its WyzDM's suggestion in the OP. Yes, it's smart :)

That Other Guy
02-06-2013, 07:08 PM
I'm sick of retiring threads, and if you're reading this I'm sure you are too. We know who's gone. But that's because they underestimated the work that would be required of leading.

Excuse me, but I was well aware of the work required for leading. I've done what I've wanted with clans and I helped shape a VERY LARGE CHUNK of clan life today, I will not tolerate hearing that I underestimated the job, cause I most certainly didn't, I overcame that job and accomplished what needed to be done. SO I would suggest not directing this on the retired/retiring, for we retired for other reasons, not because of the underestimation of leading clans.

And by the way, there should be another chat on the Zenith and Grand Council Sites so I can freely have conversation with you guys without filling in an application.

WyzDM
02-06-2013, 08:43 PM
Excuse me, but I was well aware of the work required for leading. I've done what I've wanted with clans and I helped shape a VERY LARGE CHUNK of clan life today, I will not tolerate hearing that I underestimated the job, cause I most certainly didn't, I overcame that job and accomplished what needed to be done. SO I would suggest not directing this on the retired/retiring, for we retired for other reasons, not because of the underestimation of leading clans.

It's not just you, but you're right about starting this whole thing up. But if the job was easy, how many would still be leading? I will apologize, as I know you did not underestimate it, and you did contributed more than I have to my own clan. My point was it's difficult and that's why it's happening.


And by the way, there should be another chat on the Zenith and Grand Council Sites so I can freely have conversation with you guys without filling in an application.

All you have to do is register to the site (means have an Enjin account) to join our chat, but it's right now temporarily unavailable. You're more than welcome to join us there. We handle our applications through the forums, which I have more control of and create a better system all in all.

That Other Guy
02-06-2013, 08:53 PM
It's not just you, but you're right about starting this whole thing up. But if the job was easy, how many would still be leading? I will apologize, as I know you did not underestimate it, and you did contributed more than I have to my own clan. My point was it's difficult and that's why it's happening.



All you have to do is register to the site (means have an Enjin account) to join our chat, but it's right now temporarily unavailable. You're more than welcome to join us there. We handle our applications through the forums, which I have more control of and create a better system all in all.

Alright I understand, sorry to be a burden and fight back like that, I understand you meant no offense, just over thinking right now XD.

Alright I'll register and all eventually, I'm not unretiring, if I unretire, it's to reclaim my leadership for SOS.

I'd like to chat with you guys again, catch up, see how Zenith is.

By the way, Kannagi would like Zenith and SOS to be allies, like Daemonic promised to happen, XD

WyzDM
02-06-2013, 10:24 PM
Alright I understand, sorry to be a burden and fight back like that, I understand you meant no offense, just over thinking right now XD.

Alright I'll register and all eventually, I'm not unretiring, if I unretire, it's to reclaim my leadership for SOS.

I'd like to chat with you guys again, catch up, see how Zenith is.

By the way, Kannagi would like Zenith and SOS to be allies, like Daemonic promised to happen, XD


It was my mistake to word things as they were, and perhaps I was the one that came out too aggressively. And Kannagi is more then welcome to register and post in my clan forums (I have a whole section for that. When he does so I tag him, and he has more forum access with a sweet tag that states he's a clan leader.

You would get like a legend tag or something. Just a little incentive.

uberman
02-06-2013, 10:50 PM
You would get like a legend tag or something.

Ohhh, shiney...

DragonFrost
02-07-2013, 06:59 AM
You would get like a legend tag or something. Just a little incentive.

I got a pink and sparkly name with Feminine tag XD

_Ai_
02-07-2013, 07:05 AM
I got a pink and sparkly name with Feminine tag XD

I wonder why though?

That Other Guy
02-07-2013, 01:11 PM
It was my mistake to word things as they were, and perhaps I was the one that came out too aggressively. And Kannagi is more then welcome to register and post in my clan forums (I have a whole section for that. When he does so I tag him, and he has more forum access with a sweet tag that states he's a clan leader.

You would get like a legend tag or something. Just a little incentive.

I'm very flattered with the honor.

And you'll need to see Kannagi on the new SOS site (NSSCW site :p). Hopefully you can talk to him about registering, cause I told him to ally with you guys.

fram
02-15-2013, 02:09 PM
i wanted to join zenith but im not in wyzDM's clan and still see him often, cause i go on DD daily but the time-zone means no-ones there, and mostly on during school times when im at home.