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FailingAtFailing
02-08-2013, 07:35 PM
I've been on a losing streak recently since a few days after I got into 1700s and I've noticed that 1 of a few things happens.

1: My sword archer combo loses to another sword archer combo. I kite with the archer and go for the enemy archer, but going for the sword seems to do better, but I'm not entirely sure

2: Albow and/or giant mass. My economy harrasment doesn't seem to do it sometimes.

3: My army gets outnumbered. I think I need a better balance of Economy and army early game.

4: My units don't respond, possibly a glitch. Fixes?

Does anyone have any tips I could use?

DragonFrost
02-08-2013, 08:09 PM
... You've been on a losing streak? You were 1700s for a while, I didn't notice a decline in rating. :confused:
Well, here's my answers.
1. I personally favor going for enemy archidon first, I've beaten many pros with that, except once the person becomes smart and moves the archer behind his sword and stuff, you're screwed. If both of you go for sword, it all depends on who shot first. Positioning. Make sure to get sword and archidon with archidon a bit in front of sword (sword is faster than archidon), so when you meet enemy, they are side by side.
2. Hm. Albow mass: a bunch of giant tanks with a few magikill. Giant mass: magikill, ninja, giants, albows combo.
3. That, I can't help you. I suppose you have to train your macro.
4. Probably lag (wyzdm and miamibigal can tell you in more detail of demongod who does that). When I played DEMONGOD, he was lagging like fuck (except without any lag count, it just froze for a sec, came back, etc). My units didn't respond properly either.

FailingAtFailing
02-08-2013, 08:13 PM
... You've been on a losing streak? You were 1700s for a while, I didn't notice a decline in rating. :confused:
Well, here's my answers.
1. I personally favor going for enemy archidon first, I've beaten many pros with that, except once the person becomes smart and moves the archer behind his sword and stuff, you're screwed. If both of you go for sword, it all depends on who shot first. Positioning. Make sure to get sword and archidon with archidon a bit in front of sword (sword is faster than archidon), so when you meet enemy, they are side by side.
2. Hm. Albow mass: a bunch of giant tanks with a few magikill. Giant mass: magikill, ninja, giants, albows combo.
3. That, I can't help you. I suppose you have to train your macro.
4. Probably lag (wyzdm and miamibigal can tell you in more detail of demongod who does that). When I played DEMONGOD, he was lagging like fuck (except without any lag count, it just froze for a sec, came back, etc). My units didn't respond properly either.

I've been winning a few games, but those have been against people in the 1500s and 1400s. I have no idea how I got matched with them after only a minute of searching, but regardless wins against them kept my rating up, but I don't really count those wins in my head. Crushing someone at those ranks doesn't seem like it should count.

1. That might work, I generally start with both of them running side by side and the sword ends up slightly in front of the archer.

2. Albows with blazing bolts really demolish my giants. They usually have like 6 albows by the time I get a giant grown halfway. I also have some archers and swords and sometimes some spears of course.

4. It's been happening more recently than ever which is odd. Maybe the SE servers are getting laggier as more people join (and make alts)

KrayZStick
02-08-2013, 08:15 PM
Should train vs me or fr0st (if he doesn't lag out ofcourse :p)!

DragonFrost
02-08-2013, 08:47 PM
^.^ a good suggestion, krayzstick. About how if you have 1 giant halfway grown, and they have 6 albows, obviously it's your macro skills are lower than your opponent. Also, even though the albows do heavy damage to giants, your magikill should be able to kill them quickly if all goes well.

Triss
02-08-2013, 08:49 PM
Albows are weak against magikill electric wall.
Remember that.

DragonFrost
02-08-2013, 08:52 PM
Oh yeah? Albows move out of way until electric wall disappears. A better way to counter them: mass giants(when they are almost dead send the giant to the back)

FailingAtFailing
02-08-2013, 09:02 PM
^.^ a good suggestion, krayzstick. About how if you have 1 giant halfway grown, and they have 6 albows, obviously it's your macro skills are lower than your opponent. Also, even though the albows do heavy damage to giants, your magikill should be able to kill them quickly if all goes well.

Would you suggest getting a larger army to harrass economy or more economy? In my eyes, harrassing seems riskier but more rewarding, but I go with economy since it is safer.


Albows are weak against magikill electric wall.
Remember that.

Electric wall is really useless against any unit that can move out of the way before death, AKA magikill or anything that is almost dead.

KrayZStick
02-08-2013, 09:04 PM
Well, yea, but that's why you poison them while they're moving away!

Triss
02-08-2013, 09:07 PM
Check if they have castle archer or not (after 30 seconds of the game)
If they have: DO NOT HARRASS. Better get the central tower, create some high-tier unit, then create ghost units.
If they don't: HARRASS THEM like a mofo, and quickly kill as many miners that you can.

FailingAtFailing
02-08-2013, 09:09 PM
Check if they have castle archer or not (after 30 seconds of the game)
If they have: DO NOT HARRASS. Better get the central tower, create some high-tier unit, then create ghost units.
If they don't: HARRASS THEM like a mofo, and quickly kill as many miners that you can.

What usually happens in my case is that they get castle archer after I have gone for their miners once or twice. By then, I have more swords since that is what I spent my money on to defend the tower. Would it be a good idea to send swords on suicide runs to kill miners?

jli
02-08-2013, 09:28 PM
Check if they have castle archer or not (after 30 seconds of the game)
If they have: DO NOT HARRASS. Better get the central tower, create some high-tier unit, then create ghost units.

Ohhhh. Well, I haven't been doing that...
When you say high-tier unit, are you referring to speartons/albow/magi/ninja?


What usually happens in my case is that they get castle archer after I have gone for their miners once or twice. By then, I have more swords since that is what I spent my money on to defend the tower. Would it be a good idea to send swords on suicide runs to kill miners?
I don't think so. Keep the swordwrath at the tower to defend the tower. They defend it well, especially in the opening.

Triss
02-08-2013, 09:29 PM
What usually happens in my case is that they get castle archer after I have gone for their miners once or twice. By then, I have more swords since that is what I spent my money on to defend the tower. Would it be a good idea to send swords on suicide runs to kill miners?
Use them as a scout, while building more high-tier units.
If I have 3 swordwrath, I ussually send them one by one, while attacking their miner.

Ohhhh. Well, I haven't been doing that...
When you say high-tier unit, are you referring to speartons/albow/magi/ninja?
Anything that isn't sword or archers.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 08:25 AM
What usually happens in my case is that they get castle archer after I have gone for their miners once or twice. By then, I have more swords since that is what I spent my money on to defend the tower. Would it be a good idea to send swords on suicide runs to kill miners?

Never suicide them unless you have enough money for high tier units. Although I usually mass swords and archidons these days... But send 1 sword or so to right outside castle archer range, as a scout

ShadowyWhisper
02-09-2013, 08:40 AM
If you have a few Spearton harass them in any case. Unless they have 3 Castle Archers and 2 Walls, which would cost a lot.

KrayZStick
02-09-2013, 08:44 AM
By then you'd have a nice little army, and all they could do was turtle, just destroy their walls, they'll waste money building more!

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 09:09 AM
Is the sword really a better choice than the archer for scouting? I put the archer just out of castle archer range to disable the second row of gold, but would a sword really be that much better? I know it's cheaper and all but.....

KrayZStick
02-09-2013, 09:11 AM
Well, yea it would be better to have a ranged unit like an Albatross guarding the 2nd row.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 09:16 AM
Well, yea it would be better to have a ranged unit like an Albatross guarding the 2nd row.

Cool, maybe I'll try replacing the archer with an albow once I get ghost.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 09:35 AM
Actually, archer is better, but if you don't have an archer, send a sword. Btw, once I have a decent army, I send all my archidons to just behind castle archer range, to kill miners at second row, and if they try to build walls far out.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Actually, archer is better, but if you don't have an archer, send a sword. Btw, once I have a decent army, I send all my archidons to just behind castle archer range, to kill miners at second row, and if they try to build walls far out.

I think that it is really debatable whether an archer is better than an albow or vice versa. An albow can get blazing bolts to deal extreme damage to armoured units and has more health and flight capabilities. However archers are faster have more range, are cheaper and use less population. Unless blazing bolts increases range.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 09:50 AM
Oh, I meant archers are better than swords for guarding the second post. But anyways, I find albows and archidons are good, but what I like more about archidons, is that it is easier for another unit to block arrows for the archidon.

Triss
02-09-2013, 10:00 AM
Albow is better. Why? Because.....
It has double the health
It has double the damage
It has wing! A FREAKING WINGS!
It cannot be attacked by melee units.
It deals bonus damage to armored units.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 10:01 AM
Oh, I meant archers are better than swords for guarding the second post. But anyways, I find albows and archidons are good, but what I like more about archidons, is that it is easier for another unit to block arrows for the archidon.

Speartons attacking the ranged unit can block its arrows, if it's another albow a fully grown giant can block them too. Really I find that giants make the best arrow blockers no matter what.


Albow is better. Why? Because.....
It has double the health
It has double the damage
It has wing! A FREAKING WINGS!
It cannot be attacked by melee units.
It deals bonus damage to armored units.

It also has double the population and essentially double the cost too though, especially to get blazing bolts.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 10:02 AM
You forgot: HIGHER COST, MORE TIME TO BUILD, MORE POP COST, SLOW AS HELL (only faster than magikill, Merics, giants, egiants, medusa and marrowkai, maybe miner)

KrayZStick
02-09-2013, 10:29 AM
You forgot: HIGHER COST, MORE TIME TO BUILD, MORE POP COST, SLOW AS HELL (only faster than magikill, Merics, giants, egiants, medusa and marrowkai, maybe miner)

Let's say this, 40 archidons vs speartons or 20 albas vs speartons. Who would win? :p

ShadowyWhisper
02-09-2013, 10:39 AM
Obviously the Allbowtross.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Let's say this, 40 archidons vs speartons or 20 albas vs speartons. Who would win? :p

What if the spears rush your statue?

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 10:47 AM
That is kinda unfair, as speartons can't hot albow. Instead, compare 40 archidons to 20 albows. Both have the upgrades on them. Who would win? I bet archidons

Triss
02-09-2013, 10:51 AM
That is kinda unfair, as speartons can't hot albow. Instead, compare 40 archidons to 20 albows. Both have the upgrades on them. Who would win? I bet archidons
Well comparing to Archidons, I like Albows better.
Archidon massing are easy to be blasted by bombers/magikill blast spell.
Albows still can survive the hit.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 10:53 AM
Well comparing to Archidons, I like Albows better.
Archidon massing are easy to be blasted by bombers/magikill blast spell.
Albows still can survive the hit.

When I play Chaos they are bound to use bombers so I spread my archers out. Problem bombers?

KrayZStick
02-09-2013, 10:55 AM
When I play Chaos they are bound to use bombers so I spread my archers out. Problem bombers?

That's why they use eclipsors and juggerknights (keep wanting to call them juggernauts :/)

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Bombers: kite, eclipsors: kite, JUGGERKNIGHT: KITEEEE

THEFORCE
02-09-2013, 11:02 AM
How are you supposed to kite bombers?
They are too fast, unless you have miner walls to hide archers behind them, and eclipsors? how do you kite them? as they are ranged units and relatively fast.
Maybe juggerknights.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 11:04 AM
How are you supposed to kite bombers?
They are too fast, unless you have miner walls to hide archers behind them, and eclipsors? how do you kite them? as they are ranged units and relatively fast.
Maybe juggerknights.

Bombers have so low health that a volley of arrows takes a few out, move them back as they draw their bow to get some more space and then fire another volley. And eclipsors are only the same speed as an archidon. You can also use an amazing thing called a MEATSHIELD!!!!

Triss
02-09-2013, 11:24 AM
Bombers have so low health that a volley of arrows takes a few out, move them back as they draw their bow to get some more space and then fire another volley. And eclipsors are only the same speed as an archidon. You can also use an amazing thing called a MEATSHIELD!!!!
Why don't you use a person called MAGIKILL?

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Because magikills are expensive.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 12:19 PM
Fuuuuuuuuuuu I just lost another game on Castle because my archers barely respond. Also, any tips on Castle? Way too small for some things.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 03:32 PM
RUSH! That's the only way. Don't ever think of going defense. If you go defense, you're screwed.

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 03:44 PM
RUSH! That's the only way. Don't ever think of going defense. If you go defense, you're screwed.

Once I take the tower, about half my opponents make a castle archer which really prevents rushing with anything but a spearton or ghost.

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 03:50 PM
So get a ghost...

FailingAtFailing
02-09-2013, 04:14 PM
So get a ghost...

Last time I got a ghost, the other person had a castle archer so I decided to focus on my economy. My ghost goes in, giant and albow. I am thinking "holy crap, wtf"

DragonFrost
02-09-2013, 08:29 PM
...then you are fighting extremely OP people...

ShadowyWhisper
02-10-2013, 08:19 AM
What does OP stand for, not original post as that would make no sense...

DragonFrost
02-10-2013, 08:51 AM
OP (in the context you're talking about: overpowered.

FailingAtFailing
02-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Alright, so I've been getting some more wins recently. I've also noticed a bunch of people using rage to help their swords in the begining. Anyway, I got a replay of me against a guy named TheGame21

I beat him and it was on Castle too! A map I normally get my ass kicked on early game!

Anyway, I beat him but I had some pretty close calls. I have a replay. If anyone can give me some tips (yeah I was a little hesitant to attack at times, I know that) it would be helpful.

I've also gotten to be better at targetting key, low-health units. In some of these cases, sword wrath since they can do alot of damage with rage.

REPLAY!!! Click here! (http://pastebin.com/pN7mQWdV)

DragonFrost
02-12-2013, 06:21 PM
Alright, so I've been getting some more wins recently. I've also noticed a bunch of people using rage to help their swords in the begining. Anyway, I got a replay of me against a guy named TheGame21

I beat him and it was on Castle too! A map I normally get my ass kicked on early game!

Anyway, I beat him but I had some pretty close calls. I have a replay. If anyone can give me some tips (yeah I was a little hesitant to attack at times, I know that) it would be helpful.

I've also gotten to be better at targetting key, low-health units. In some of these cases, sword wrath since they can do alot of damage with rage.

REPLAY!!! Click here! (http://pastebin.com/pN7mQWdV)

Here's what i have so far.
1: nice start for castle! Archer and sword is the best option on this map. Except, try to send archidon ahead of sword (i'll see if i can find a match on castle, i'll show you what i mean), so you're lucky the other guy started 1 sword...
2: At oo:48 you have captured middle. Instead of keeping both of your units to middle (before it's done capturing), hold your sword, and attack with your archidon (harass economy). After you maptured the middle you should send both units to attack.
3: At 1:00, you attacked (finally), but when the opponent sword came out you ran away (you had a better army...)
4: At 1:19, you started buying swords, but you didn't harass. Even if you didnt want to send swords, use your archidon and kite them.
5: At 1:43, nothing eventful. Neither of you attacked.
6: At around 1:50 (guessing here), you moved forward your units. Seeing that they had 3 swords, you should have attacked (better army...)
7: At 2:10, you engaged battle. The opponent retreated, but you didn't chase?
8: Later (idk time), thye attacked with rage swords and defeated you... You got a spearton? Not a good macro decision, especially since they had a bunch of swords with RAGE.

Just a suggestion: Seeing as they massed a BUNCH of swords, get a few albows (get a few swords to rage kill archidons).

9: Luckily all your speartons managed to defeat his swords, so you basically won the game. Your army overran his.

FailingAtFailing
02-12-2013, 06:30 PM
Here's what i have so far.
1: nice start for castle! Archer and sword is the best option on this map. Except, try to send archidon ahead of sword (i'll see if i can find a match on castle, i'll show you what i mean), so you're lucky the other guy started 1 sword...
2: At oo:48 you have captured middle. Instead of keeping both of your units to middle (before it's done capturing), hold your sword, and attack with your archidon (harass economy). After you maptured the middle you should send both units to attack.
3: At 1:00, you attacked (finally), but when the opponent sword came out you ran away (you had a better army...)
4: At 1:19, you started buying swords, but you didn't harass. Even if you didnt want to send swords, use your archidon and kite them.
5: At 1:43, nothing eventful. Neither of you attacked.
6: At around 1:50 (guessing here), you moved forward your units. Seeing that they had 3 swords, you should have attacked (better army...)
7: At 2:10, you engaged battle. The opponent retreated, but you didn't chase?
8: Later (idk time), thye attacked with rage swords and defeated you... You got a spearton? Not a good macro decision, especially since they had a bunch of swords with RAGE.

Just a suggestion: Seeing as they massed a BUNCH of swords, get a few albows (get a few swords to rage kill archidons).

9: Luckily all your speartons managed to defeat his swords, so you basically won the game. Your army overran his.

Albows would've been better, but I was scared he would attack my archers so I got speartons which are faster than albows.

I admit, earlier attacks would've worked, he never got a castle archer.

fram
02-13-2013, 03:53 AM
Albows would've been better, but I was scared he would attack my archers so I got speartons which are faster than albows.

I admit, earlier attacks would've worked, he never got a castle archer.

Yeah I agree you should of killed his miners like mad if he had no castle archers, then your low-tier units still have some offensive capabilities.

THEFORCE
02-13-2013, 05:52 AM
You don't understand, bombers are FAST, so they can catch up to archers without archers kiting them, so if you only stop one second for kiting, then your archers are dead, Maybe you're right about eclipsors though, but only with meat shield, which will cost :/

DragonFrost
02-13-2013, 07:29 AM
You don't understand, bombers are FAST, so they can catch up to archers without archers kiting them, so if you only stop one second for kiting, then your archers are dead, Maybe you're right about eclipsors though, but only with meat shield, which will cost :/

Um the battle is using order lol

ShadowyWhisper
02-13-2013, 02:39 PM
Or you could... spam Miners.