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Tecness2
02-20-2013, 02:49 PM
Okay, I wanted to make another proposal. This is for upgrades to existing researches as well as more levels of research, adding more strategy to the game.

ORDER:

Swordwrath:


Sword Mastery - Increased the damage done by the swordwrath by .25 permanently. (Damage Upgrade, increases damage from 1 to 1.25)



Archidon:


Shadow Step - Teleports to a selected area (Very low target range) to escape enemies. (Blink) 150 Gold - 150 Mana - 60 Seconds (30 Seconds Usage Cooldown)
Flame Arrows II - Increases the damage done by the flame arrow ability by .5x(So in total it does 1.5 normal). 100 Gold - 150 Mana - 40 Seconds



Monk:


Smite - Deals damage (2/3 of a swordwrath's health) to a selected unit. 50 Gold - 100 Mana - 20 Seconds (Target area of Stone Face - 30 mana Cost)



Magikill:


Fireball II - Increases the damage done by the fireball explosion by .25 (1.25 of normal damage). 50 Gold - 50 Mana - 15 Seconds
Fireball III - Increases the damage done by the fireball explosion by .25 (1.5 of normal damage). 50 Gold - 100 Mana - 20 Seconds
Electric Wall II - Increases the duration of the electric wall from 4.5 seconds to 8 seconds. 100 Gold - 150 Mana - 35 Seconds
Electric Wall III - Increases the damage of the electric wall by .5. 150 Gold - 200 Mana - 40 Seconds
Stun - Stuns an area (size of fireball) of units for a short time. 50 Gold - 100 Mana - 30 Seconds. Cost to use, 15 Mana - 15 second cooldown



Shinobi:

Throwing Knife - Throws a knife at someone. Does the same damage as an arrow. 50 Gold - 50 Mana - 40 Seconds. Costs to use, 10 mana - 5 second cooldown
Shadow Mastery - Becomes completely invisible to his opponent's eye when cloaked.
150 Gold - 150 Mana - 50 Seconds.


CHAOS:

Crawler:


Predatory Edge II - Increases the movement speed and attack speed of crawlers even more(makes them attack .25 faster, as well as move a bit faster than the current speed). 100 Gold - 150 Mana - 60 Seconds


Metabolic Growth - Increases the health of the crawler by .25. 150 Gold - 150 Mana - 60 Seconds




Dead:

Muscle Density - Increases the range that a dead can throw. 200 Gold - 150 Mana - 40 Seconds




Medusa:

Snake Frenzy - Medusa's hair(snakes) attack the unit in front of her doing the damage of a Swordwrath's health(It can instant kill a swordwrath). 50 Gold 50 Mana - 20 seconds. Cost to use, 0 Gold - 15 Mana - 13 seconds cooldown.


New Edits:


Wingadon:

Piercing Arrow - Does half the damage to ONE other unit, next to the target unit.

malbence
02-20-2013, 02:53 PM
The only ones I disagree with (only looking at Order) are the two Shinobi ones, because Shadowraths are already fairly strong (I think this was mentioned a long time ago) because they're fast, high health, high damage, poison, and shinobi, and now having range would be even moaaar.

And being invisible could let them walk right past the enemy to the statue with tons of shadowrath and destroy the statue, as well as letting them kill Magikill and Merics without any warning (it was bad enough already).

I do think that the other upgrades, especially for the archer and magikill, would help widen the gap between a great micro and a fair player, which is good.

DragonFrost
02-20-2013, 02:57 PM
Sounds good. Would make the game more challenging, and more options to choose from (either tech up units or mass no tech units)

WyzDM
02-20-2013, 02:58 PM
I think you meant for smite to be a 30 mana cast, not gold. But these are purty cool ideas. I don't look at archdions at being stealthy enough for teleportation, perhaps the ninja with a throwing knife and cloak can make up for that.


I just need something as Order to fight these speedy cat demons. They're driving me nuts right now.

FailingAtFailing
02-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Don't make Medusa more powerful! Maybe make it so snake frenzy costs like 50 mana each kill and is toggleable.

Also, YAY! Bringing back stun for the magikill. Should be same range as electric wall though.

Dakeras
02-20-2013, 03:43 PM
I kinda like the idea of all this and kinda don't at the same time. Here is my take on it.

First of all, magikill already cost a lot of mana with his current upgrades (the nature of him being a mage and all), but with all the extra cost for upgrading his other spells to make him more viable (I guess, since he is already decent), it makes for a very very expensive unit that is pretty weak (1 shot from shinobi, 1 shot from petrify, easily focused by rage swords, stuff like that). Maybe 1 extra upgrade for each spell with a little less effect. ! for electric wall that last 6 or so seconds and with a little increased dmg, but not as much as you said. Same with fireball. Also, don't know how I feel about the stun because with upgrading mages, you will actually want to make more then usual of them to compensate for the cost (4 to 6 magikill instead of the normal 1 or 2). And I don't know about you guys, but the control and micro in this game are not the most optimal and having many purely micro units with spells to do dmg have 1 more spell to use to be efficient is kinda a bad idea, I think.

This having more spells and making it much harder to micro goes for a few of the others as well and is my second point. Imagine a having 4-5 magikill with 4 spells each. 1 or 2 shadowrath that not have shinobi and a weak knife trow that you should be using, a blink on archers, a smite on the merics.... This is all without thinking about just moving your troops around the battlefield (microing back your archers, focusing with albows, putting giants or speartons in front, targeting opponent merics or mages with your own spreatons. This (of course put more variety in the game, but it also kinda forces every player to use all of these because if he don't, he is not suing his army at max efficiency and therefor not playing right. It would be like making miners but not get miner hustle... Would be a detriment.

Now if we look at the chaos upgrades, we can of cours see they have much less options to upgrade, at the current version of your idea Tec, but also that they are all passive abilities. So while Order is researching all his new abilities like a boss and trying his best to fight agaisnt Flash to micro his little units he upgraded like a boss, he will have LESS units then he should and be fighting a chaos player who does not need to do anything special to just crush his opponent even more easily then normally.

This is a good idea and all, but I honestly am not convinced. If changes like these are implemented, if forces players (who actually want to beat better players) to get all these, and this in turn makes the army smaller, much much harder to micro and puts a general extra strain on the unit. I'm not saying that 1 or 2 extra active spells would ruin it but currently, you put too many for me or even much better players I think would be comfortable with. Sh*t, I don't even think sc2 has as many active abilities. haha

My suggestion would be to add 1 or 2 active spells for both races and the rest of the upgrades you wold want to add, passives. It would let the game progress more, put more diversity, balance the fairness in extra micro baggage for both empires an in general gives players more path to tech and choices to makes during the game.

Dakeras

KrayZStick
02-20-2013, 03:44 PM
Wouldn't it be more, idk, better if you called it a shuriken throw instead of a knife throw?

ShadowyWhisper
02-20-2013, 04:24 PM
I actually think that there should be "Flame" where it slowly drains an opponent's health when setting them on fire. But your formatting is great.

KrayZStick
02-20-2013, 04:39 PM
So, basically poison with a different animation?

uberman
02-20-2013, 09:40 PM
Why are the crawler buffs so expensive?
The current buffs are so expensive that I think nobody (or almost nobody) uses them at all - and they are certainally too expensive to afford in the first 3 minutes of the game, when crawlers are used most. So adding more expensive buffs will therfore not be any advantage at all to the chaos players, while the swords already PWN crawlers, adding a permanent damage to swords (doubly so if its a cheaper buff) will make the survival against early sword rush even more difficult for chaos.

I am all for crawler buffs, but I think they need to be a lot cheaper, so that they can be realistically obtained early game when they are most needed. Possibly a cheaper, less effective version of the buffs should be available. We'd have level 1 (about half as effective as the current buffs, at about half the cost) level 2 (the current buffs) and level 3 your new buffs.

Dakeras
02-20-2013, 09:56 PM
Look at this guy ^^

Thinking swords PWN crawlers. I don't know what game you've been playing but having a faster unit that regens life and that is cheaper vs a slow unit that cannot regen is much more favorable. Not to even mention the other cheap-ass unit that runs faster then everything else that kills swords too easy, the bomber.

Seriously dude. If that is really how you feel about th situation, then you need to wake up. You are not supposed to EVER EVER let your crawlers just sit there and die to swords. They are faster. Swords can only get 1 hit off or maybe maybe 2 if they get lucky with 1 rage.

uberman
02-20-2013, 10:52 PM
Look at this guy ^^

Thinking swords PWN crawlers. I don't know what game you've been playing but having a faster unit that regens life and that is cheaper vs a slow unit that cannot regen is much more favorable. Not to even mention the other cheap-ass unit that runs faster then everything else that kills swords too easy, the bomber.

Seriously dude. If that is really how you feel about th situation, then you need to wake up. You are not supposed to EVER EVER let your crawlers just sit there and die to swords. They are faster. Swords can only get 1 hit off or maybe maybe 2 if they get lucky with 1 rage.

Riigghhtt...

So you have chaos, I assume? (if not I dismiss your point forthwith, being based on no actual experience)

One sword is not what I am speaking of. I am speaking of a group of several swords vs a group of several crawlers. This is most acute on a short map, where the build time of swords and crawlers being the same means the crawlers dont outnumber the swords in the early encounters of a sword-rush.

When you have, lets say 4 swords, along come the group of crawlers to hit and pull back to regenerate - but 4 swords symultaneously hit on one crawler which kills it outright. It cant regenerate from death!

So, one crawler is dead on contact and 1 sword took some hits form the crawlers, but didnt die yet as swords do more damage and have more health.
Crawlers either stay to fight (as none are hurt except the dead one, no need to run and regenerate) so all swords hit another crawler, and it dies in 4 symultaneous hits.

If the crawlers stay to fight, the swords rage and massacre the crawlers with superior hit rate and damage, even if one sword falls, 3 with rage - as long as they focus fire - means the regeneration is totally ineffective.

If the crawlers flee, the swords hit rage and chase them down - the third crawler will inevitably die at this stage, regardless of what the chaos player does.

So, yes, IMO, a group of swords PWNS a group of crawlers, unless there is a serious advantage of numbers to crawlers.
The fact that the crawler buffs are so very expensive means it is impossible to get them early game (which was my original point).

BTW the bomber is not the fastest unit in the game. Ninja are faster than bombers. Have you actually tested it? (Tec and I have) or your just asserting baseless opinion?

Tecness2
02-20-2013, 11:00 PM
Riigghhtt...

So you have chaos, I assume? (if not I dismiss your point forthwith, being based on no actual experience)

One sword is not what I am speaking of. I am speaking of a group of several swords vs a group of several crawlers. This is most acute on a short map, where the build time of swords and crawlers being the same means the crawlers dont outnumber the swords in the early encounters of a sword-rush.

When you have, lets say 4 swords, along come the group of crawlers to hit and pull back to regenerate - but 4 swords symultaneously hit on one crawler which kills it outright. It cant regenerate from death!

So, one crawler is dead on contact and 1 sword took some hits form the crawlers, but didnt die yet as swords do more damage and have more health.
Crawlers either stay to fight (as none are hurt except the dead one, no need to run and regenerate) so all swords hit another crawler, and it dies in 4 symultaneous hits.

If the crawlers stay to fight, the swords rage and massacre the crawlers with superior hit rate and damage, even if one sword falls, 3 with rage - as long as they focus fire - means the regeneration is totally ineffective.

If the crawlers flee, the swords hit rage and chase them down - the third crawler will inevitably die at this stage, regardless of what the chaos player does.

So, yes, IMO, a group of swords PWNS a group of crawlers, unless there is a serious advantage of numbers to crawlers.
The fact that the crawler buffs are so very expensive means it is impossible to get them early game (which was my original point).

BTW the bomber is not the fastest unit in the game. Ninja are faster than bombers. Have you actually tested it? (Tec and I have) or your just asserting baseless opinion?
Crawlers with upgrades are as fast as ninjas.

15 fully upgraded crawlers die to 10 raging swords.

Dakeras
02-21-2013, 01:32 AM
but crawlers are not meant to engage Rage Swords. Their purpose, mostly early game, is gain control of center and maybe harass the miners. Engaging 15 pure crawlers vs swords or pretty much anything except other crawlers or pure archers is kinda crazy. I don't think you should make 15 of them without realizing the need to make bombers or the need to switch to air. Their job is not to win engagements, their job is to control the battlefield early on to give time to get your eco rolling and better units out.

_Ai_
02-21-2013, 02:02 AM
I dont have Chaos, so my opinion may be invalid.

Order can get rage early game, about 1 min and 5 sec or so. The miners will be set to pray at start to gain 50 mana vey quickly. Then just rage. On Chaos side, they can just to train more cats or bombs. To make things worst, they are in the same queue. And, swords are stronger than cats. Youll need good micro to win 3 cats vs 3 swords.

uberman
02-21-2013, 02:48 AM
I dont have Chaos, so my opinion may be invalid.

Order can get rage early game, about 1 min and 5 sec or so. The miners will be set to pray at start to gain 50 mana vey quickly. Then just rage. On Chaos side, they can just to train more cats or bombs. To make things worst, they are in the same queue. And, swords are stronger than cats. Youll need good micro to win 3 cats vs 3 swords.

yes, exactly. (Edit to add my 'yes exactly' is aimed at your points about order getting rage early, and to bombs and crawlers being in the same queue)

Your opinion is only invalid if you disagree with me :)
<BTW thats a joke>

_Ai_
02-21-2013, 03:51 AM
yes, exactly.
Your opinion is only invalid if you disagree with me :)
<BTW thats a joke>

What! I disagree with you :P

uberman
02-21-2013, 04:03 AM
but crawlers are not meant to engage Rage Swords. Their purpose, mostly early game, is gain control of center and maybe harass the miners. Engaging 15 pure crawlers vs swords or pretty much anything except other crawlers or pure archers is kinda crazy. I don't think you should make 15 of them without realizing the need to make bombers or the need to switch to air. Their job is not to win engagements, their job is to control the battlefield early on to give time to get your eco rolling and better units out.

On this we agree.

But thats why chaos struggles so much on short maps against sword rush, when there is no option to get other units (only crawlers or bombers). Even you who says the advantage is wth chaos agrees crawlers cant beat swords in a fight - so if he ignores your crawlers and attacks your miners, what do you suggest a chaos player does? (let me guess, you think chaos simply makes 5 bombers and kills the swords...thats another story)
Nobody here is seriously suggesting using 15 crawlers. Its mentioned by Tec as a comparison. Even fully buffed, 15 crawlers die to 10 swords with rage (i.e 10 swords are stronger than 15 crawlers) but lets compare costs; 15 swords with rage are cheaper than 15 fully buffed crawlers (due to expensive crawler buffs), they use 10 population compared to 15 population, and are faster to produce (10 build times rather than 15 build times). BUT YOU STILL SOMEHOW THINK THE ADVANTAGE IS WITH CHAOS?

Early game, on a short map, chaos has only crawlers and bombers - and they are in the same queue. Bombers are one-shot units, and it takes 5 to kill swords, which is 5x75 = 375 gold and 5 lots of build-time when you cant build any crawlers to defend against swords. Thats a long time to be with only 2 crawlers!

uberman
02-21-2013, 04:05 AM
What! I disagree with you :P

No, your too smart, you know never to disagree with me :)
<joke>

KrayZStick
02-21-2013, 07:30 PM
Macro over Micro in this, Swords will always be stronger, no matter how much micro you have with crawlers!

DragonFrost
02-21-2013, 08:30 PM
Macro over Micro in this, Swords will always be stronger, no matter how much micro you have with crawlers!

So true, that's why there are bombers :p

kingkickass2013
02-21-2013, 09:39 PM
I have a couple problems here

the shadowrath

the shadowrath unit is a melee unit ONLY, the unit shouldnt have a ranged advantage, otherwise their true main foes (the albowtross and archidon mass) would stand no chance against the new ranged weapon, shadowrath would have to have its price increased completely in order for this to take effect. however im good with shadow mastery, it doesn't change much except now when you go shinobi the enemy doesn't notice it, but make it so the shadowrath dont say shinobi when this is upgraded, so the enemy doesn't hear you as well.

The meric
worst combat unit in the game, and it must stay that way. the magical portable healer shouldn't be casting spells, that's the magikills job. So I say don't freaking take somebodies job god damnit, its not nice.

the crawler
these speedy little fucks need those upgrades reduced otherwise the help you o so need aint gonna come. they are obsolete when it comes to upgrades, so reduce em.

the archidon
I absolutely love the archidon, they are considered my second best unit. but teleportation is going a bit to far, WE HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THAT TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY YET, and archidons aren't magical nor are they sneaky enough to move like that, keep the flame arrows, but lose the teleportation (why teleport when you can use those legs of yours).

the medusa
this unit already can kill a unit instantly, why give it an ability so it can just kill other units instantly faster. two blocks of freaking health lost on the single unit it hits, it will be finished with the spearton in only 3-4 shots, not including the venom flux sent out to the other enemies, reduce the damage done with this upgrade or make it toggled and cost 50-75 mana

i had my own upgrade ideas but i think they are a bit OP

THE MARROWKAI

small minions, give the marrowkai the ability to spawn small little demons that have a 50-50 chance to be either holding a bow or a sword, this costs no mana or population to use, but it has an insanely long recharge time (80-90 perhaps, so players dont get OP with this), these units do less damage than a swordwrath and die instantly from a single miner attack, but they are free of charge, almost as fast as a shadowrath (a shadowrath can catch up to one of these but no other unit can), controllable, you start with this upgrade, and a farm of these units can be started but its not recommended

THE MEDUSA

darkness, medusa shoots a ball of darkness at a single enemy that does as much damage as an archidons arrow, costs no mana to use and medusa starts with this. has a recharge time of 3 seconds

THE JUGGERKNIGHT

anger mismanagement, the Juggerknights anger grows more and more every day, every kill he makes stacks up little by little (can stack damage up 10 times, only one juggerknight can take the stack, so if 2 juggerknights are attacking a single swordwrath whoever got the last hit gets the stack), each kill gives the Juggerknights damage an extra .1 damage all the way to 1 full extra damage, this upgrade costs 150 gold and 150 mana with a time of 50, HOWEVER when its toggled the juggerknights health does not regenerate over time even when garrisoned, when toggled off the whole damage stacked disappears and he can start regenerating again

anger mismanagement 2, the Juggerknight can now stack the damage up 20 times, allowing him to get 2 full extra damage, however once you pass the tenth stack, you will start slowly losing health as if your regeneration was going backwards even when garrisoned, when turned off you lose the damage stacked and begin regenerating again, this costs 400 gold and 150 mana (this gives the juggerknight 2 toggled abilities, so you can choose whether you get to continue going with the damage stack)

THE SPEARTON

honor, the Spearton when dies now throws the spear as a last attack, instantly killing ONE of the weak foes, he will always target the strongest of the weakest (heres a list of the order he will target in: albowtross, wingadon, meric, archidon, swordwrath, miner from either side, crawler, and bomber. he targets from the most expensive to the least expensive, most expensive always is targeted first unless blocked by something like a giant), if their is no weak unit to instantly kill on the battle field, he will just randomly target one of the truly strong units, of course not instantly killing them but damaging them a little. costs 250 gold and 50 mana to research with a research time of 60

shield stab, the spearton takes out the spear while in shield wall and can now stab units as its holding the wall, this does the a bit less damage than its regular attack but does not stun, it costs no mana to use and has a recharge time of 7, this ability costs 300 gold and 100 mana to buy with a research time of 20

shield bash 2, the speartons bash now hits 2 enemies, it costs 100 gold and 100 gold with a research time of 30

THE ALBOWTROSS

better flight, the albowtross is a bit faster, costs 200 gold and 50 mana

THE MAGIKILL

magical range, increases the spell range of all spells, some spells can even be fired off screen, this costs 250 gold and 600 mana with a research time of 35

magical shield, spawns a small shield around the magikill that phases a single attack once, after that single use the magikill is vulnerable and can be harmed, this ability comes with the magikill and is a single use ability (you start with it, but it cant be casted by the magikill)

THE MINER FOR BOTH SIDES

double tap, the gold is now doubled to 150 and the mana gained is doubled to 14 per person, this costs 600 gold and 500 mana. the gold increased does not increase the amount of time it takes to mine a full bag of gold but it does increase the amount of gold taken from an ore

Tecness2
02-21-2013, 10:16 PM
I have a couple problems here

the shadowrath

the shadowrath unit is a melee unit ONLY, the unit shouldnt have a ranged advantage, otherwise their true main foes (the albowtross and archidon mass) would stand no chance against the new ranged weapon, shadowrath would have to have its price increased completely in order for this to take effect. however im good with shadow mastery, it doesn't change much except now when you go shinobi the enemy doesn't notice it, but make it so the shadowrath dont say shinobi when this is upgraded, so the enemy doesn't hear you as well.

The meric
worst combat unit in the game, and it must stay that way. the magical portable healer shouldn't be casting spells, that's the magikills job. So I say don't freaking take somebodies job god damnit, its not nice.

the crawler
these speedy little fucks need those upgrades reduced otherwise the help you o so need aint gonna come. they are obsolete when it comes to upgrades, so reduce em.

the archidon
I absolutely love the archidon, they are considered my second best unit. but teleportation is going a bit to far, WE HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THAT TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY YET, and archidons aren't magical nor are they sneaky enough to move like that, keep the flame arrows, but lose the teleportation (why teleport when you can use those legs of yours).

the medusa
this unit already can kill a unit instantly, why give it an ability so it can just kill other units instantly faster. two blocks of freaking health lost on the single unit it hits, it will be finished with the spearton in only 3-4 shots, not including the venom flux sent out to the other enemies, reduce the damage done with this upgrade or make it toggled and cost 50-75 mana

1: Why does it have to be a melee only unit? It has a 5 second cooldown, and does the same damage as a normal arrow. An albowtross (which is the same population) would easily kill it in this time.

2: Clearly, you've never played the campaign The mission where the enemy opens with 2-3 Merics is massively overpowered since they do the same damage as a swordwrath (or a crawler, not sure) but also heal themselves/eachother. This idea was from games like World of Warcraft/ Warcraft 3, where the healer has a small ability that can be used to damage enemies. It's tried and true. All healers, in every game that is declared as balanced, has another major point that makes it useful.

3: Crawlers are very weak, their entire purpose is speed. This makes them move even faster, to be better at their job. This will also reduce the effectiveness against giant massers.

4: The Archidon is like the stalker from StarCraft 2. I wanted to give it a teleport because it would add more micro to the game. Micro intensive games are very good, as well as fun.

5: It can currently kill any unit, except a giant, instantly and that has a 27 second cooldown. This ability is a close range, single enemy weapon. It does very little damage and can only kill a single swordwrath. It also has a larger cooldown that it takes to spawn a swordwrath/crawler. After the Medusa uses her stone ability, she's useless for the next 30(almost) seconds unless the enemy decides he wants to swarm her.

kingkickass2013
02-21-2013, 11:30 PM
I was gonna say something about your point to the archidon, but then i took extra thought to what i was gonna say and then completely forgot what i was gonna say

btw what of my upgrades, what do you think about them, overpowered underpowered balanced what do you think

stickman311
02-22-2013, 02:12 AM
1: Why does it have to be a melee only unit? It has a 5 second cooldown, and does the same damage as a normal arrow. An albowtross (which is the same population) would easily kill it in this time.

2: Clearly, you've never played the campaign The mission where the enemy opens with 2-3 Merics is massively overpowered since they do the same damage as a swordwrath (or a crawler, not sure) but also heal themselves/eachother. This idea was from games like World of Warcraft/ Warcraft 3, where the healer has a small ability that can be used to damage enemies. It's tried and true. All healers, in every game that is declared as balanced, has another major point that makes it useful.

3: Crawlers are very weak, their entire purpose is speed. This makes them move even faster, to be better at their job. This will also reduce the effectiveness against giant massers.

4: The Archidon is like the stalker from StarCraft 2. I wanted to give it a teleport because it would add more micro to the game. Micro intensive games are very good, as well as fun.

5: It can currently kill any unit, except a giant, instantly and that has a 27 second cooldown. This ability is a close range, single enemy weapon. It does very little damage and can only kill a single swordwrath. It also has a larger cooldown that it takes to spawn a swordwrath/crawler. After the Medusa uses her stone ability, she's useless for the next 30(almost) seconds unless the enemy decides he wants to swarm her.
I really can't believe you play every game with the word war in it.Anyways, i really don't think crawlers are for speed, 2 crawlers can kill a sword, and if you talk bout archidons i'll give you 4 bombers.

_Ai_
02-22-2013, 02:21 AM
I really can't believe you play every game with the word war in it.Anyways, i really don't think crawlers are for speed, 2 crawlers can kill a sword, and if you talk bout archidons i'll give you 4 bombers.

Then, what is the use of the crawlers if it isnt speed?

stickman311
02-22-2013, 09:07 AM
its cheap, so use it for rush

kingkickass2013
02-22-2013, 01:29 PM
you know i wonder who would win, 80 swordwrath with rage or 80 crawlers with pack mentality and predatory edge

Tecness2
02-22-2013, 01:38 PM
you know i wonder who would win, 80 swordwrath with rage or 80 crawlers with pack mentality and predatory edge
Swords.

Without rage, I believe crawlers might win.

Imada
02-22-2013, 01:42 PM
Yup, so do I

kingkickass2013
02-22-2013, 01:42 PM
anybody wanna test both of em with me?
no targeting btw when in the fight

btw what did you think of the upgrade ideas i had

were they good, were they bad, were they fair?

jli
02-22-2013, 01:45 PM
Sure, I'd be glad to test it. I can only do order though.

kingkickass2013
02-22-2013, 02:06 PM
i can only do order as well, i need a chaos player

infact i have a lot of things i want to test

11 full level chaos giants vs 40 archidon with flame arrow (grassy hills)
the maximum amount of speartons you can have vs the maximum juggerknights you can have (no charge or shield wall)
2 magikill (all spells) vs 3 marrowkai (all spells, full mobility for both)
3 medusa's and 1 marrowkai vs 1 full level enslaved giant
80 bombers vs 40 archidon with flame arrow

and so many more

jli
02-22-2013, 06:31 PM
i can only do order as well, i need a chaos player

infact i have a lot of things i want to test

11 full level chaos giants vs 40 archidon with flame arrow (grassy hills)
the maximum amount of speartons you can have vs the maximum juggerknights you can have (no charge or shield wall)
2 magikill (all spells) vs 3 marrowkai (all spells, full mobility for both)
3 medusa's and 1 marrowkai vs 1 full level enslaved giant
80 bombers vs 40 archidon with flame arrow

and so many more

I'm fairly certain that:
1. giants win
2. juggers win
3. magikill win
4. chaos wins (reap + stone face + stone face + stone face + reap + repeat)
5. no contest. archers win

Tecness2
02-22-2013, 06:37 PM
So, is this supposed to be free, that each person gets an amount of points that they can choose with, like league of legends?

BTW, is the albowtross splitting- bolt tingy supposed to be a copy of the worm glave from starcraft's mutalisk?
If you mean the thing for the wingadon, then yes.

BuddyLucky2
02-22-2013, 06:58 PM
FU*K IT! DO IT LIVE(NOW!) :D
I want OP mages XD

stickman311
02-22-2013, 07:41 PM
I'm fairly certain that:
1. giants win
2. juggers win
3. magikill win
4. chaos wins (reap + stone face + stone face + stone face + reap + repeat)
5. no contest. archers win

You got it wrong.archidons win,marrowkai win.

jli
02-22-2013, 07:57 PM
Archidons I can believe. Marrowkai? How?

DragonFrost
02-22-2013, 08:02 PM
Archidons I can believe. Marrowkai? How?

REAP DA MAGIKILLS!

jli
02-22-2013, 08:13 PM
Well, yeah, but that only works for half the time, after which the magikill can cast spells, right?

And we are REALLY off topic so...

Tec: I feel like, as someone pointed out, these upgrades are mostly passive for chaos and active for order. Even so, I think it'd make gameplay a lot more fun.

stickman311
02-22-2013, 08:16 PM
3 reap 1 magikill, and its dead.then hell fists to the other one

jli
02-22-2013, 08:18 PM
Oh ok, makes sense now.

kingkickass2013
02-23-2013, 12:20 AM
yep i see you two arguing, theres only one way to find out who will win in the fight, TEST IT i have order but i need a chaos player in order to test things

stickman311
02-23-2013, 12:22 AM
Ask uber or wyz or gale or tec or anyone you know that has chaos

Ninjareviver
02-23-2013, 01:39 AM
I have a proposal for Speartons.

The upgrade is called Bravery, costs 100 coins 200 mana and 40 second training time.
What happens is upon activation, the Speartan/s you’ve selected becomes a ghost glowing in gold (PERMANENTLY). So when your group of Speartons activate Bravery, they will fight to the death and get a 25% decrease in damage taken and 25% increase in damage given.

NOTE: Upon activation, you will no longer have ANY control over your BRAVE HEARTED SPEARTONS. Making them have the exact same mindset as a tower spawn ghost (which is no retreating).

ShadowyWhisper
02-23-2013, 08:22 AM
3 reap 1 magikill, and its dead.then hell fists to the other one

Magikill can do Reap? Cool.

jli
02-23-2013, 08:31 AM
No, what he meant was that all the marrowkai cast Reap at one of the magikill, killing it. Then, they all cast hell fists at the other one, killing it as well.

DragonFrost
02-24-2013, 08:33 PM
As I read this, I'm finding more and more things that have been ripped off of starcraft.

What now? White Flame of Anathor, functions like Brook War's medic flare, decreasing the enemie's engagement range?

Blame Tec :D I don't even play starcraft.

DragonFrost
02-24-2013, 08:42 PM
^^^
then don't post

First, typing in starcraft cheats in the tutorial back in the alpha and beta closed the tutorial instantly, and now this?

Perhaps I should shut up at the fear of uncovering a huge conspiracy and then getting killed by it.


Or perhaps I won't.

What if Tec actually works for Blizzard and wants to make Stick Empires a copy of starcraft (to make it more popular) :O!

_Ai_
02-24-2013, 09:35 PM
Then you should shut up. Before we die. And get banned for spamming.

Youre negative....I dont see how that is spam.

Azxc
02-25-2013, 04:03 AM
The wingtons piercing arrows will be OP

And I suggest a crawler ability called "Berserk Evolving"
crawlers will suddenly increase in size, (like giants suddenly become bigger) doing higher damage and attack rate, for 4-5 seconds

Because crawlers are no match with raging swordwrath
This skill can rebalance it

_Ai_
02-25-2013, 04:14 AM
Yeah, and I don't see why everybody is ignoring my store suggestions thread *sniff.....*

Well, people will post when they have a new idea. Also, that is one kind of thread that doesnt need to make several time, thus making bumps invalid. (I think).

WyzDM
02-25-2013, 06:34 AM
Don't buff crawlers. Fused with bombers, they are a solid ground force against raging swordwrath. It's only 5 bombers to completely kill a swordwrath.

uberman
02-25-2013, 09:22 PM
Don't buff crawlers. Fused with bombers, they are a solid ground force against raging swordwrath. It's only 5 bombers to completely kill a swordwrath.

Man I really wish you hadn't said that.

Those of us who are not as skilled as youself really struggle against swords with crawlers, and raging swords eat crawlers in seconds.
On a short map, chaos is in loads and loads of trouble against swords, and even you yourself have posted several times that its not easy as chaos against swords, particularly on a short map wher crawlers cant get the advantage of numbers before the swords arrive.

MiamiBigAL
02-27-2013, 02:14 PM
But chaos has the advantage of miners in the beginning. And they are already super overpowered on anything else except the smallest map (in which they are slightly op).

JohnsonMichaels
02-27-2013, 02:36 PM
Okay, I wanted to make another proposal. This is for upgrades to existing researches as well as more levels of research, adding more strategy to the game.

ORDER:

Swordwrath:


Sword Mastery - Increased the damage done by the swordwrath by .25 permanently. (Damage Upgrade, increases damage from 1 to 1.25)



I disagree on Sword Mastery, 1.25 damage is a hell of a lot combined with Rage, so it'd be better to put something like 1.15.