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jli
03-04-2013, 04:20 PM
So this is a list of all the openings I have used or encountered. Next to each opening includes rating range where it is most likely going to be found, difficulty in execution, overall success at 1500-1800 levels, best counters, and follow-ups.

1. Overly Cautious: get 1 miner and 1 castle archer.
Rating range: 1000-1450.
Difficulty in execution: none at all.
Overall success: meh. If you're a great turtler then this is very effective on Grass Hills.
Best counters: a bunch of swords with rage + ghost tank. Send the ghost in to get the castle archer's attention, then obliterate their miners with your swords. Archers also work, but it's slower and less likely to scare the shit out of the other guy.

2. Quick Spearton: Make both miners pray for 50, then set them to gold and buy a spearton.
Rating range: 1000-1550.
Difficulty in execution: none at all.
Overall success: also meh. Work OK at the 1200-levels, because the sudden appearance of a tank unit surprises everyone, but a decent player will have swords, and soon, rage.
Best counters: any opening involving swords, rage, and miners, really. You invest a lot of money in that spearton; after it dies, you're behind on, well, everything.

3. Miner mass: 3 miners.
Rating range: 1200-1500.
Difficulty in execution: a lot.
Overall success: Depends on your micro skill. If they rush you, you have to get 300 gold as fast as you can, and know how to micro your miners to fight effectively.
Best counters: speartons, archer mass, albow mass, ninja rushes.

4. Annoying: get 1 sword and 1 archer.
Rating range: 1600-2400.
Difficulty in execution: medium. Learn to kite.
Overall success: Pretty darn good. This opening was the one that Daemon taught me. He recommended that I use it on every map except Grass Hills. I'm sure if I could kite better, it would be great, but recently I've found that swords with rage is a lot more effective than having a kiting archer.
Best counters: not many. The most effective I've seen is mass swords with rage, then kill the archer.
Follow up: get miners. You're behind on economy.

5. Balanced: get 2 swords and 1 miner.
Rating range: 1600-2400.
Difficulty in execution: medium-hard.
Overall success: Also pretty darn good. The only thing this opening as trouble with sometimes is Annoying, where you have to mass swords and send them in and out of garrison to tank damage until you have rage, after which you can just go nuts. Lots of micro needed here.
Best counters: Annoying does well against this, usually.
Follow up: depends on scouting info. Adjust your economy and military to be better than theirs, then grab tower.

Triss
03-04-2013, 04:22 PM
U forgot 1 sword 2 miners.
Azxc pwned me with that technique.

jli
03-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Really? I've never seen it used. How does it work?

FailingAtFailing
03-04-2013, 04:24 PM
Really? I've never seen it used. How does it work?

I believe it involves rage and more swords.

jli
03-04-2013, 04:28 PM
I believe it involves rage and more swords.

Ah, ok, sounds like Azxc. But if the other guy uses 2 swords 1 miner, how do you counter on a short map? Or, a better question, if you use 2 miners 1 sword on a short map, how do you counter 1 sword 1 archer?

isgood
03-04-2013, 05:21 PM
you forgot 3 swords and rage extra early, range is kind of really wide spread, some people don't even get rage
it can't beat annoying if they have good micro, otherwise it beats everything else except for the miner startoffs.

There is also start off with one archer, and there's plenty of those out there

I've also seen people who start off with early wall, early albowtross and early shadowrath

KrayZStick
03-04-2013, 05:57 PM
Ah, ok, sounds like Azxc. But if the other guy uses 2 swords 1 miner, how do you counter on a short map? Or, a better question, if you use 2 miners 1 sword on a short map, how do you counter 1 sword 1 archer?

Why azxc? D:

btw, it'd be hard, seeing how you'd have less time to prepare, as you would in a med map

jli
03-04-2013, 05:59 PM
Why azxc? D:

btw, it'd be hard, seeing how you'd have less time to prepare, as you would in a med map

Well, he is the sword master, isn't he? lol
Is it possible to counter though? I like the flexibility of just getting swords to start, but kiting archers are a pretty big threat until I get rage. In your replay with Malbence, you mentioned that you just "kite with your swords". What did you mean by that?

FailingAtFailing
03-04-2013, 06:29 PM
you forgot 3 swords and rage extra early, range is kind of really wide spread, some people don't even get rage
it can't beat annoying if they have good micro, otherwise it beats everything else except for the miner startoffs.

There is also start off with one archer, and there's plenty of those out there

I've also seen people who start off with early wall, early albowtross and early shadowrath

Early albow? Sword and archer and say bye as I take the tower and own you in economy. Early ninja? More feasible, but some swords with rage and bye.

I use one archer ONLY on Grass Hills where there is tons of room to kite if needed. Works well since my 3 miners at the time can pump out a sword before my archer reaches the middle.

3 swords in begining is highly effective.

lntrepid
03-04-2013, 07:15 PM
If I want to start with 3 swords, I get 2 swords and 1 miner because the miner is trained faster then the swords, and you lose no production time because swords stack on each other.

FailingAtFailing
03-04-2013, 07:47 PM
If I want to start with 3 swords, I get 2 swords and 1 miner because the miner is trained faster then the swords, and you lose no production time because swords stack on each other.

True, normally I don't start with 2 swords, but if I did I would set one of the start miners to mana to get rage ASAP too.

DragonFrost
03-04-2013, 08:14 PM
This is good. But you are forgetting a bunch of other strategies. For example, early ninja (which kinda sucks). EVEN WORSE, you forgot the noob strategies..
Early albow
Mass miners and ATTACK with them.
Earl magikill (send your two miners to pray until 500 mana).
There are others. Of course, those strategies easily fail.

ShadowyWhisper
03-04-2013, 08:16 PM
All the top players start with 1 Sword/2 Miners on Medium maps. For Chaos, it's 2 Crawlers/2 Miners.

jli
03-04-2013, 08:22 PM
All the top players start with 1 Sword/2 Miners on Medium maps. For Chaos, it's 2 Crawlers/2 Miners.

2 miners? Are you sure? I've seen replays of some of the top players on the Replay Codes Thread and it's usually 1 miner 2 swords.

DragonFrost
03-04-2013, 08:27 PM
2 miners? Are you sure? I've seen replays of some of the top players on the Replay Codes Thread and it's usually 1 miner 2 swords.

Both work. If I ever have to choose one of those, I usually do 2 miners 1 sword (less queue time).

jli
03-04-2013, 08:27 PM
Both work. If I ever have to choose one of those, I usually do 2 miners 1 sword (less queue time).

Oh ok. What do you normally start with?

DragonFrost
03-04-2013, 08:32 PM
Oh ok. What do you normally start with?

Small to medium: 1 archer and 1 sword, hope for the best XD
large: 1 miner 1 archidon (NOW HERE IS THE LOGIC: better chance of getting middle than 1-2 swords, so better economy. 3 swords, their Eco sucks and archidon can still kite them. Archer sword, now that's where I have trouble, although they do have bad economy. If they start with 1 archer 1 sword then it's up to superior skill.)

ShadowyWhisper
03-05-2013, 01:39 PM
I suck at kiting, plus I get rage by the time you have the middle for 10 sec or so with an Archer.

lntrepid
03-05-2013, 06:21 PM
Kiting is quite easy if you have a decent comp... stupid lag...

ShadowyWhisper
03-05-2013, 06:45 PM
Fr0st has the best kiting skills and look at his computer.

GO PLAY AT THE LIBRARY FROST

blu3blitz
03-07-2013, 10:28 PM
well,isn't sword and archer a useless waste of money if they turtle?

malbence
03-08-2013, 05:41 AM
Sorta but it does give you a military advantage. Just start making miners and walls even, cause I've seen people who turtle and then produce like two speartons and harass your miners until they die.

Azxc
03-08-2013, 06:13 AM
Ah, ok, sounds like Azxc. But if the other guy uses 2 swords 1 miner, how do you counter on a short map? Or, a better question, if you use 2 miners 1 sword on a short map, how do you counter 1 sword 1 archer?

Haha, I am so popular :3

Sorry to post it late, I don't often come Order Strategies Section

Correction: I call my start "Rage Start", with 2 swords 1 miner at the beginning, get rage with 3rd miner, then 150 G on 4th miner, then make 3rd swordwrath, then keep spamming miners and swordwraths

I use it on normal size map

_Ai_
03-08-2013, 06:46 AM
well,isn't sword and archer a useless waste of money if they turtle?

No. Instead, it's the best against turtlers. The archer can kill the miners via range, and they will have to spend a bit money if they want to protect their miners.

blu3blitz
03-14-2013, 10:48 PM
ok honestly, albow rush and shadowrath rush are two of the most nooby and useless rushes, oh and the new update introduced some new openings
at least 2 i think