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_Ai_
05-22-2013, 07:05 AM
The new and improved (not really much tho) turtle strategy! I'm a bit sure that this'll be better than the last, but you'll need micro to pull this off more succesfully. I think this one is more...complicated than the last one.

This is the past thread of turtle strategy.
http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?54825-Turtle-Strategy


Fun facts
An average game will take about 9-13 minutes. It takes a bit of patience.
Works around 1600+ for me. You could always improvise this strategy by changing it here and there.
At first, you will focus on economy. Later on, you just focus on your army.
This strategy varies according to the map. There's long maps, medium maps, short maps.
Maps long enough for wall to cover the second row of gold mine is considered a long map.


That's enough facts. Lets go to how to excute it.

Turtler's Prime : 1st part of the game.
First things first; regardless of map, get 3 miners asap. Set the starting one on gold. Just make more miners. Look over to the center tower. This is very important as it tell you if the enemy rushed you or not. If he decides to attack...

1 Swordwrath
Make your way to having 300 gold, while keeping your miners alive. Quickly grab a castle archer, garrison the attacked miner. He'll probably chase it, but the miner will be safely garrisoned. Right after the miner enters the gates, the castle archer appears. Ungarrison the miner, and put it back to mining.

2 or more Swordwraths/Archer.
Garrison all of your miners, get the castle archer. The Swordwrath will continue chasing the targeted miner, while the archer is at the back. The castle archer will appear, and most likely target the archer, killing it (if lucky). Once you see the castle archer, ungarrison all your miners, put them back to mining.

Notes :
Make more miners while keeping an eye over your gold. Make sure you have 200 in reserve. This is to make sure that you'll have enough money if the enemy decides to attack you with archer+sword. If not, you might be stuck with 275 gold, not enough to make a castle archer. This will spell your defeat.

If he does not attack you, keep getting miners. If he does, you are safe under the protection of castle archer. Only a spearton can bust through this defence, which he seems to be making right now. Lets not make that happen, eh?

If you have reached 8 miners on gold, you now may proceed to make the next miner pray. Only one or two for now, we only want that Miner Hustle. Also get Miner Wall. Now we split to two, because of maps.

Small maps
Now make the wall to the farthest you can make it. You have 8 miners on gold, 2 on mana right? Now stop miner production. Time to get into action.

Notes :
It is advised to only have 10 miners. 8 on gold, 2 on mana. This is because the miner will not be enough to cover the second row of gold mine. Especially on Castle Map. If you dont have Castle Archer, make one now. This will secure your defenses.
You can still make more miners, if you want. This'll make your eco more than his.

Long maps
Make the wall after the the second row of gold (optional). Make more miners, until you have about 12~14 on gold, 4 on mana. And there, youre finished.

Notes :
It is advised to not have more than 14 on gold. This will cost you population. You will need this on the longrun. There must be space between the miner closest miner and the miner wall. If not, the miner will be hit with an archer.

Congratulations! You have now passed through the first part of turtling!

Let's recap. You have...

Short maps
10 miners. (8 on gold, 2 mana)
Miner Hustle
Miner Wall (One already built)
Castle Archer

Long maps
16~18 miners (12~14 gold, 4 mana)
Miner Hustle
Miner Wall (Optional)
Castle Archer (Optional)

All check? We are going to offense now. Ready your horses.


Camper's Descend : The Grab For The Tower
From now on, this guide will split to two part; short map and long map.

Short maps
Get an archer first. Then, make a Spearton. Continue making them in this order. Now go take the center tower. If there's enemies there...

Speartons/Swords only, Swords and Archers
You're backed with a wall, just go for it. Make the Spearton stay behind the wall.

Albatross
Wait for the Spearton. Once done, go attack it. Make sure the Spearton protects the Archer. Use the key (H) to hold the Spearton in place.

Albatross and Spearton
Wait for the Spearton. Once done, go attack it. Make sure the Spearton protects the Archer. Use the key (H) to hold the Spearton in place. The enemy will either go for the spearton or the archer. If archer, kite it back to the wall. The spearton will also deal some damage to the enmy spearton.

Note :
Do not stop making the archers and speartons. Also, you might want to research Spearton Wall. Make a Meric to heal on the spot.

Long maps
Before anything, research Blazing Bolts. And then make a Spearton. Continue making this in order. Go to the center. If there's enemies there...

Swords/Speartons only
Only make the Albatross go there. It will chase them away. Then bring in the Spearton.

Archers
Bring both Spearton and Albatross. The archers will be fleeing with the sight of them.

Spearton/Swords with archers.
Bring both Spearton and Albatross. The Albatross will target the archers, and the Spearton will take the tanks away.

Albatross
You should already have Blazing Bolts right now. Go kill it.

Note :
Do not stop making the Albatrosses and speartons. Also, you might want to research Spearton Wall. Make a Meric to heal on the spot

Win this skirmish, and research Tower Spawn 1. Time for the battle before the last push.

Recap time:
Short maps
10 miners. (8 on gold, 2 mana)
Miner Hustle
Miner Wall (One already built)
Castle Archer
3 Archers
3 Speartons
Tower Spawn 1

Long maps
16~18 miners (12~14 gold, 4 mana)
Miner Hustle
Miner Wall
Castle Archer (Optional)
3 Albatrosses
2 Speartons
Tower Spawn 1


Turtle Breaking : The Seige
Short maps
Now your enemy is turtling against you. Using your 3 archers, pressure the enemy using ghost spearton while still making more archers and speartons. I can't predict what happens now though. You can now choose what kind of army you want it to be; albatross, mages, or even swords!

Note :
You can make your own army from now on. My own army consists of 8 archers, 4 speartons, 1 giant, 2 mages, 3 merics.
If you dont have enough population, suicide your miners. Use them efficiently. Use your archer while they kill your miners.
It helps to have a giant to tank castle archers; make it stand right before the castle archer.

Long maps
You're going to stay longer here than the short map. Move 2 miners to pray. Your army production will stop for a while; but dont let them notice. Using the ghost spearton, attack them using your Albastrosses. Research Tower Spawn 2 once you have enough mana. Then, you can continue your army production.

Note :
You can make your own army from now on. My own army consists of 7 albatrosses, 7 speartons, 1 giant, 2 mages, 3 merics.
If you dont have enough population, suicide your miners. Use them efficiently. Use your archer while they kill your miners.
It helps to have a giant to tank castle archers; make it stand right before the castle archer.


Overhwelming Victory : The Last Push
Attack the enemy base!

Notes :
Upgrade everything that you want to use. If you have Giant, research Giant Growth 1&2, etc.
Have your tanks absorb castle archer's arrows. Meric behind them.
Maybe you want to research Passive Income. It wont hurt to do so.
Mages cast Electric Wall like the montage! It'll keep their army in.

Watch these replays to see how it is excuted.
1500s, Long map (www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1268199&version=1.62)
1600s, Short map (www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1332056&version=1.62)


That's it, I hope you have fun reading! Go out there and win dem rating!
If you have any comments and criticism, post it in here; I'll try my best to answer them all.
Another fun fact : It took 3 hours to write this up XD

Xate
05-22-2013, 10:24 AM
Fun fact: My strat is the offensive version of the turtle strat. And good job, Ai.

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-22-2013, 11:24 AM
Wow, not bad... I cant imagine how many free times you guys got.

isgood
05-22-2013, 03:08 PM
it's good to have a ninja when turtling, if someone attacks you with a mage, it could be very dangerous

You should add some replays tho

And there's a type of turtling people use, usually on chaos, is that you stay on the base, when the enemy attacks they get trapped and destroyed there

_Ai_
05-23-2013, 03:10 AM
Okay, added a replay. Feel free to study it.

@isgood, I agree. They can add a ninja in this during Turtle Breaking : The Siege.
Because you now use your own army of choice to defeat the enemy.

stickman311
05-23-2013, 03:24 AM
umm, on short maps, if u start with archer, i'll start with sword archer and i'll kite your archer

isgood
05-25-2013, 02:17 PM
aiman it seems like your v2 wasn't as successful as v1

THEFORCE
05-26-2013, 03:01 AM
Better start with one or two swords and spend the rest on miners if you're turtling...

_Ai_
05-26-2013, 09:39 AM
aiman it seems like your v2 wasn't as successful as v1

I dont mind that, as long as it helps people.

Nyarlathotep
05-27-2013, 03:39 AM
A few deads will kill you before you've begun your attack.

_Ai_
05-27-2013, 03:43 AM
A few deads will kill you before you've begun your attack.

Unfortunately this is true. But 1600s and 1700s wont really spew out deads so early. Seemingly its a strategy for 1800s and above.

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-27-2013, 09:04 AM
Uhr.... by seeing the word "DEADS" makes me already sick... I hate them...to much health and armor.

nullhead
05-27-2013, 12:14 PM
they don't have armor, but they have too much guts, it would be awesome if there was a gut limit for deads, but that would require arrow refills for each archer, and I absolutely hate the poison, some of the reasons I hate fighting chaos with order.

_Ai_
05-28-2013, 08:34 AM
I added another replay for short maps. Take a look.
Dont mind him bad mouthing me though.

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-28-2013, 09:39 AM
they don't have armor, but they have too much guts, it would be awesome if there was a gut limit for deads, but that would require arrow refills for each archer, and I absolutely hate the poison, some of the reasons I hate fighting chaos with order.

Actually they HAVE armor...

Nyarlathotep
05-28-2013, 12:32 PM
Actually they HAVE armor...
Not true, they aren't counted as armored units. HOWEVER, they have lots of health for a ranged unit.

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-30-2013, 09:54 AM
Not true, they aren't counted as armored units. HOWEVER, they have lots of health for a ranged unit.

Well... but the wiki says it has armor...and many people said the same thing...

nullhead
05-30-2013, 05:15 PM
Well... but the wiki says it has armor...and many people said the same thing...

don't always trust wikis, or other people, they may be wrong, and I don't see any armor on deads, just a lot of life, armor means resistant to attacks, not more life.

_Ai_
05-31-2013, 02:54 AM
don't always trust wikis, or other people, they may be wrong, and I don't see any armor on deads, just a lot of life, armor means resistant to attacks, not more life.

Wiki are made of facts from a lot of experienced people who plays the game. They also dont make the wiki for fun. So I think its wise to trust the wiki.

Xate
05-31-2013, 03:40 AM
Armor is real. The "clank" sound proves it. Also, try counting how many arrows it takes to kill 1 magikill and 1 dead. If it's the same, I'm wrong. If it's not, YOU are wrong.

THEFORCE
05-31-2013, 06:42 AM
Deads are absolutely an armored unit. Like GamerXD8 said, the sound of the deads when being hit proves it has armor.

Nyarlathotep
06-03-2013, 11:49 PM
Armor is real. The "clank" sound proves it. Also, try counting how many arrows it takes to kill 1 magikill and 1 dead. If it's the same, I'm wrong. If it's not, YOU are wrong.

Guess I can't always be right. Another way to test is to see how many hits it takes to kill a dead and how many it takes to kill a mage, as giants do bonus damage to armored units.

jli
06-04-2013, 08:14 AM
Rain, you've seen the source code, lol. Why don't you just tell us how it works?

Nyarlathotep
06-04-2013, 08:19 AM
Why don't you just tell us how it works?

Oh but that's no fun!

Invincitron
06-04-2013, 09:09 AM
Fun fact: WyzDM can beat this.

_Ai_
06-04-2013, 09:22 AM
Fun fact: WyzDM can beat this.

Nice work Captain Obvious.

Narsheh
06-04-2013, 10:30 AM
I like this turtling strategy a lot. I integrated this with my own turtling strategy, so now I buy 3 miners instead of 2. I also started to try using Archidons and Flying Crossbowmen too, and wow, it was fantastic! :D

Also, do I use Archidons or Flying Crossbowmen for mid-sized games? Like Desert or Swamp maps? :eek:

Also, I'm still sorry for arguing in my turtling thread, I still regret that...

_Ai_
06-11-2013, 12:29 AM
I like this turtling strategy a lot. I integrated this with my own turtling strategy, so now I buy 3 miners instead of 2. I also started to try using Archidons and Flying Crossbowmen too, and wow, it was fantastic! :D

Also, do I use Archidons or Flying Crossbowmen for mid-sized games? Like Desert or Swamp maps? :eek:

Also, I'm still sorry for arguing in my turtling thread, I still regret that...

Sorry for the late reply.
I don't mind it anymore. Feel free to post more questions.

That's actually a good question. You can either use archer or alba. Because mid map is not long nor short. It fits both strat perfectly fine.

RealCS
06-26-2014, 07:40 AM
I've seen people spamming miners on both short and long maps(A few of wyzdm and some others have over 20 miners in a game) and that may seem more than enough but it's actually useful as units can replace the ones dead fast while miners can be sacrificed when they attack. Seems to me that the player with 20+ miners win.

_Ai_
06-26-2014, 11:53 PM
This one year bump tho.

First off, I need to apologies. I've been quite out off the game for quite a long time. And this thread itself is one year old. It's pretty outdated if you ask me, so I don't know if it's still viable to be played on a 1600+.

Secondly, a good amount of miners ranges around 14-16. 12 on gold, 4 on mana. It also fluctuates a lot. Actually, it'd be best to adapt to the situation.

Thirdly, most of what you're saying has truth. So yeah.

forspartadoe
08-03-2014, 12:11 PM
amazing article

Juggerman1
08-03-2014, 06:41 PM
I agree, but don't bump old threads :P