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View Full Version : High risk strategey for short maps



jerrytt
05-25-2013, 11:56 AM
This is my extremely risky and difficult strategy for starting out on small maps. The idea is to out eco the enemy but still destroy their units. That is, if you pull it off

Start: one archer and one miner.

send your miner to gold and scout the middle with your archer. If they send:

1 archer and one sword, retreat, and try to kite them back to your base. try to target their swordwrath while they do this, so by the time you reach your base, their swordwrath should be at about half health. DO NOT GARRISON YOUR MINERS.
This is where it gets tricky. Now, you have to dispose of their swordwrath with your archer, and keep swapping out miners to be targeted by their archer. It is essential that no miners die in this stage. then, even if your archer is at half health or so, use the miners as cover while you shoot back at their archer, forcing them to retreat, or die. All this time, you should keep making and healing miners as meatshields. If you manage to pull this off, you should have the middle and still more miners than they do.

Of course, there are some obvious flaws to this start. The amount of control and timing it takes to pull this off without losing any miners is extremely high, and just by losing two miners, you basically lose the game. But the reward is so great should you pull this off that you basically win the game.

Ill provide a replay soon.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1310873&version=1.62

Not the exact situation that I described, but still shows the basic gist.

moar replays

http://www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1396254&version=1.62

EPIC WIN MUST WATCH www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1396165&version=1.62

isgood
05-25-2013, 12:05 PM
one archer one miner is better on long and medium maps, i highly don't recomended it for long maps

nullhead
05-25-2013, 12:16 PM
but, of course, he can target your archer instead of the miners first.

12121212121212
05-25-2013, 12:35 PM
but, of course, he can target your archer instead of the miners first.

The miners can block the arrows from the archidon, and the archidon can kite the swordwrath and kill it before it reaches the archidon.

nullhead
05-25-2013, 12:48 PM
The miners can block the arrows from the archidon, and the archidon can kite the swordwrath and kill it before it reaches the archidon.

still, if he chooses to target your archidon first, then targets the miners, that is how the unit does it, there is no way to get around the fact that he can micro his way around hitting miners.

jerrytt
05-25-2013, 01:04 PM
still, if he chooses to target your archidon first, then targets the miners, that is how the unit does it, there is no way to get around the fact that he can micro his way around hitting miners.

Please be more clear :O

by the time you reach your base, the swordwrath should be dead and you can then shoot at the archer from BEHIND the miners.

DragonFrost
05-25-2013, 01:10 PM
The sword wrath can't die by kiting if the archer is in front. They can simply camp the middle, with superior army and Eco (1 less miner but they have middle).

jerrytt
05-25-2013, 01:27 PM
Would you camp if the enemy was running with one archer? Im pretty sure most people would try to press for the advantage and kill the enemies miners/archer.

And even if the archer is in front, after a few kite/chase shots by the enemy archer, itll now be behind the sword

nullhead
05-25-2013, 01:36 PM
I still mean it, if you only have the archer, he can target your archer, and won't attack your miner untill your archer is dead.

12121212121212
05-25-2013, 02:00 PM
I still mean it, if you only have the archer, he can target your archer, and won't attack your miner untill your archer is dead.
He targets the enemy archer with his archer. His archer's arrow flies toward the enemy archer, and is blocked by enemy miner or statue.
He targets the enemy archer with swordwrath. The enemy archer kites and kills the swordwrath.

Sagiratus
05-25-2013, 06:37 PM
The enemy might retreat and get reinforcements.....your three miners probably wouldn't have mined for long, while he probably could make a couple of miners and simultaneously train archidons and swordwrath to overwhelm you in quickly gained manpower.

nullhead
05-25-2013, 06:38 PM
He targets the enemy archer with his archer. His archer's arrow flies toward the enemy archer, and is blocked by enemy miner or statue.
He targets the enemy archer with swordwrath. The enemy archer kites and kills the swordwrath.

first of all, I'm pretty sure that if he keeps your miner occupied with the swordwraith while attacking your archidon with his, while you're aiming at the swordwraith with your archidon, you may die, it's just a theory, but I truly don't think miners can block arrows, so I think he can attack with both.

YJang
05-25-2013, 07:05 PM
whoa, nice thinking I can't think of counter to this strategy too.

jerrytt
05-25-2013, 07:23 PM
first of all, I'm pretty sure that if he keeps your miner occupied with the swordwraith while attacking your archidon with his, while you're aiming at the swordwraith with your archidon, you may die, it's just a theory, but I truly don't think miners can block arrows, so I think he can attack with both.

Any unit standing in front of another unit can block arrows. Even miners.

stickman311
05-25-2013, 08:32 PM
This is my extremely risky and difficult strategy for starting out on small maps. The idea is to out eco the enemy but still destroy their units. That is, if you pull it off

Start: one archer and one miner.

send your miner to gold and scout the middle with your archer. If they send:

1 archer and one sword, retreat, and try to kite them back to your base. try to target their swordwrath while they do this, so by the time you reach your base, their swordwrath should be at about half health. DO NOT GARRISON YOUR MINERS.
This is where it gets tricky. Now, you have to dispose of their swordwrath with your archer, and keep swapping out miners to be targeted by their archer. It is essential that no miners die in this stage. then, even if your archer is at half health or so, use the miners as cover while you shoot back at their archer, forcing them to retreat, or die. All this time, you should keep making and healing miners as meatshields. If you manage to pull this off, you should have the middle and still more miners than they do.

Of course, there are some obvious flaws to this start. The amount of control and timing it takes to pull this off without losing any miners is extremely high, and just by losing two miners, you basically lose the game. But the reward is so great should you pull this off that you basically win the game.

Ill provide a replay soon.

Well, my sword wouldn't be half the health, Yourarchidon would. Cuz i'm a really pro kiter, my archidon can kite foward your archer. So, your archer would go back behind your statue. But anyways, my archer is in front of my sword, and i would be shooting your miners without your archer shooting my archer. If you bring foward your archer to shoot me, i would regroup and my 2 swords will be charging at u (3 if u plan to make spear

jerrytt
05-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Well, my sword wouldn't be half the health, Yourarchidon would. Cuz i'm a really pro kiter, my archidon can kite foward your archer. So, your archer would go back behind your statue. But anyways, my archer is in front of my sword, and i would be shooting your miners without your archer shooting my archer. If you bring foward your archer to shoot me, i would regroup and my 2 swords will be charging at u (3 if u plan to make spear

Oh dang, you can forward kite. Watch out we got a badass over here :P
Anyways, after a few forward kites, your archer would fall behind, and I would be shooting at your sword. Your archer probably would not catch up by the time that I get to my base, And like I said, your sword would be at half health. The state of my archer is neglible as he is using the miners as meatshields and not taking any damage himself. And, like I said, I would be using the miners as a meatshield, so you shooting at them would not be as bad as you would think. And with good micro, I would lose no miners, meaning my archer start beats your archer sword start economically, so the one getting the swords first would be me. It would either end up with me losing nothing, and you losing your sword, or mabye me losing a miner or two, and you losing your sword and archer, depending on whether or not you stay.

THEFORCE
05-26-2013, 04:14 AM
I saw WyzDM doing this on halloween several times now. It's tricky to pull off.. Usually if I try this, one of my miners die. You do get another archer when you get 300 gold right?

EDIT: I saw people do it, but they failed at protecting their miners from the archer's and sword's attacks. I can target your miners and kill one. While you kill my sword, I'd have another coming. You'd have to garrison your miners. I keep making swords and charge you every time. I can also make miners as much as I like... But if you pull it off at first, then you might win.

Holy **** 1000th poooooooooost!!!

stickman311
05-26-2013, 05:38 AM
Oh dang, you can forward kite. Watch out we got a badass over here :P
Anyways, after a few forward kites, your archer would fall behind, and I would be shooting at your sword. Your archer probably would not catch up by the time that I get to my base, And like I said, your sword would be at half health. The state of my archer is neglible as he is using the miners as meatshields and not taking any damage himself. And, like I said, I would be using the miners as a meatshield, so you shooting at them would not be as bad as you would think. And with good micro, I would lose no miners, meaning my archer start beats your archer sword start economically, so the one getting the swords first would be me. It would either end up with me losing nothing, and you losing your sword, or mabye me losing a miner or two, and you losing your sword and archer, depending on whether or not you stay.

lol i think u never thought that, I would bring my sword back to regroup

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-26-2013, 07:23 AM
Ok, I will try your risky strat on my old... I will see if it works.

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 09:01 AM
lol i think u never thought that, I would bring my sword back to regroup

Well, since im just as good at kiting as you, i can just forward kite your sword to death, even if you withdraw it.

How about we just have a match to see who would win?

stickman311
05-26-2013, 09:04 AM
Well, since im just as good at kiting as you, i can just forward kite your sword to death, even if you withdraw it.

How about we just have a match to see who would win?

actually, i regrouped when your archer was running away

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 09:07 AM
actually, i regrouped when your archer was running away

So you never actually attacked my miners, and everything you said before was a lie? please, start making some sense.

ShadowGeneralChaos
05-26-2013, 09:14 AM
Well, since im just as good at kiting as you, i can just forward kite your sword to death, even if you withdraw it.

How about we just have a match to see who would win?

Oh yes... make a match... and please post the replay here.

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 12:29 PM
Added a replay showing how its done :P

nullhead
05-26-2013, 01:03 PM
I think that if he didn't surrender, and you left him alone, he could have pulled off a counter.

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 01:18 PM
My final miner count:about 7 or 8
His final miner count: 3

that'll take some skill to counter.

nullhead
05-26-2013, 01:29 PM
you never got a meric out to heal your miners, he could start harrassing your miners and you would have fell faster without that, and he could also build his economy.

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 01:46 PM
Its kind of hard to get a meric out in less than 2 minutes... and the fact that my economy more than doubled his could be taken into consideration when deciding who would be harrasing who later. I only had 3 out of 7 miners at half health anyways, and like I said, They are supposed to take damage under the assumption that I would make offensive units later.

nullhead
05-26-2013, 02:26 PM
true, but if he did not surrender, you needed to build an army to keep his miners from coming in abundance, and you needed it fast.

jerrytt
05-26-2013, 02:52 PM
true, but if he did not surrender, you needed to build an army to keep his miners from coming in abundance, and you needed it fast.

Well, thank you captain obvious, for the wise words of advice. That I would need an army to attack his miners would have never occured to me. If it werent for you I would have just sat there in my base, not make anything, and watch as he killed all of my unhealed miners, and not do anything about it.

Seriously though, Im pretty sure all of us know whow to play this game, and that all of us could win given twice as many miners as the enemy.

nullhead
05-26-2013, 02:55 PM
Well, thank you captain obvious, for the wise words of advice. That I would need an army to attack his miners would have never occured to me. If it werent for you I would have just sat there in my base, not make anything, and watch as he killed all of my unhealed miners, and not do anything about it.

Seriously though, Im pretty sure all of us know whow to play this game, and that all of us could win given twice as many miners as the enemy.

still, there is more than one option (my favorite being the one you quoted) or what you just said, or build your economy and heal your miners, as well as making a stationed army, for turtling.

stickman311
05-28-2013, 09:42 PM
Well i can see why its high risked. Once your opponent has lag, you would lose.www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1338855&version=1.62

DragonFrost
05-29-2013, 05:26 PM
Would you camp if the enemy was running with one archer? Im pretty sure most people would try to press for the advantage and kill the enemies miners/archer.

And even if the archer is in front, after a few kite/chase shots by the enemy archer, itll now be behind the sword

I would charge until the archer makes it to his base, then go back to middle. As for micro, every time the sword gets ahead I move him back.

nullhead
05-29-2013, 05:35 PM
I would charge until the archer makes it to his base, then go back to middle. As for micro, every time the sword gets ahead I move him back.

see, many things can happen, so I get risky, but it is also problematic, but works if you can deal with these problems

jerrytt
06-02-2013, 02:00 PM
yay more replays

Cha05Walking
06-02-2013, 02:08 PM
dont forget the spearton rush that no one seems to do any more either.

jerrytt
06-02-2013, 02:13 PM
funny^

0rderEmpire
06-07-2013, 11:41 AM
Yes that is very true. Anything can block archirons except air units.

0rderEmpire
06-07-2013, 11:43 AM
AND enemy archer would be dead be fore he got to "micro" around.