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View Full Version : Spearton or shadowrath?



fhtrg
06-26-2013, 04:44 PM
Do you like speartons or shadowrath more?

Spearton: high health
medium damage
good speed

Shadowrath:Medium health
epic damage
insane speed

sorefinger
06-26-2013, 06:34 PM
speartons, there more tanky and can go into sheild wall. also they look cooler in my opinion lol

FailingAtFailing
06-26-2013, 07:34 PM
I must continue to say shadowrath are meant for hit and run attacks. They sneak in with shinobi, insta-kill a unit and get out. Without shinobi, their damage isn't the most impressive, since it only stacks 5 times and even then, without armour and only 4 bars of health, they will probably be killed before they can get to max stacks on a higher health unit like a spearton or giant, especially late-game where it is more than a 1v1 battle.

who cares ?
06-26-2013, 08:35 PM
shadowrath more mana more good LOL

fhtrg
06-26-2013, 08:54 PM
i usally use shadowrath in small groups of 4 alone or mass them

i use speartons with other units to tank damage , or use them just to attack in armys.

Cha05Walking
06-26-2013, 09:00 PM
i make shadows to deal with troublesome magikill and merics they were pratically made to kill them one hit one kill, fully researched that is

who cares ?
06-26-2013, 09:05 PM
lol hey chaos i knew you
you message me and add me chaosprisoner

xanderman222222
06-26-2013, 09:24 PM
speartons. Nuff said,seriously

jerrytt
06-26-2013, 09:31 PM
They serve different roles. The only way you could compare them adequetly is combat wise, and in that speartons win.

_Ai_
06-27-2013, 01:43 AM
They serve different roles. The only way you could compare them adequetly is combat wise, and in that speartons win.

Yes. You beat me to it.

ShadowGeneralChaos
06-27-2013, 04:03 AM
Shadowrath....of course :)

stickman311
06-27-2013, 06:05 AM
Speartons are tooo much better than shadows that shadows need to be buffed

ShadowGeneralChaos
06-27-2013, 06:53 AM
Speartons are tooo much better than shadows that shadows need to be buffed

oh yes...thats a really good Idea, please buff them ;)

xanderman222222
06-27-2013, 08:37 AM
oh yes...thats a really good Idea, please buff them ;)

NOOOOOOO!

ShadowGeneralChaos
06-27-2013, 09:02 AM
NOOOOOOO!

-_- Why.....they are now somehow extremly weak -_-

FailingAtFailing
06-27-2013, 09:52 AM
oh yes...thats a really good Idea, please buff them ;)

They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

xanderman222222
06-27-2013, 10:05 AM
They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

Shadow, this is why.

ShadowGeneralChaos
06-27-2013, 10:22 AM
They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

I know that they arent DIRECT COMBAT UNITS. Their being is only for assassintaing. I KNOW IT!!! But against Chaos they are so good as useless. What can they instakill? Crawlers, but is it worst to assassinae crawlers??? Bombers: Ähm....same as Crawlers...... the assassintating of miners is the only good one....

EDIT: @Xanderman: You dont have to repeat it ;)

FailingAtFailing
06-27-2013, 10:28 AM
I know that they arent DIRECT COMBAT UNITS. Their being is only for assassintaing. I KNOW IT!!! But against Chaos they are so good as useless. What can they instakill? Crawlers, but is it worst to assassinae crawlers??? Bombers: Ähm....same as Crawlers...... the assassintating of miners is the only good one....

EDIT: @Xanderman: You dont have to repeat it ;)

They still can't instakill medusa or marrowkai? I swear I thought they had a health nerf, oh well.

ShadowGeneralChaos
06-27-2013, 10:31 AM
They still can't instakill medusa or marrowkai? I swear I thought they had a health nerf, oh well.

Oh yes...they still cant instakill Chaos mages..... that makes me so mad all the days.....but I pray for it, that soomeday they can instakill them....oh please...

fhtrg
06-27-2013, 04:37 PM
without shinobi 2, shadowrath are almost useless.

Cha05Walking
07-03-2013, 06:23 PM
yes, thats why you get it
and they are not completely useless without it
just the same as magikill are uselesss without their spells
tho the blast does do big damage

Xyit
07-06-2013, 01:40 PM
People with good micro are more adept to use shadowrath imo.

stickman311
07-06-2013, 08:20 PM
I have really good micro, and I like archers more. Spears are more used, but I use shadowraths whenever theh get mage.

FailingAtFailing
07-07-2013, 08:51 AM
I rarely use shadows because when I see an enemy mage, I am either winning with the middle and a near-full population, so I just rush it with spears, or I am losing and can't get one.

Also, because their uses are fairly limited. Hit-and-runs and assassinations. Speartons can work like tanks, rush units attacking ranged units, YOUR MAIN BATTLE FORCE!!!

fhtrg
07-07-2013, 09:07 AM
I always have atleast 1 shadowrath i my army.

Wyrmspawn
07-09-2013, 04:06 AM
I joined up just to agree that shadowrath are way more powerful than speartons. They cost that extra population for a reason. Even without any skills, a shadowrath's fixate ability makes it more than a match for a spearton.

A spearton has weak attack, and is generally just there as a meat shield or as a tank in large numbers. Even then, a few magikill and walls can easily destroy a spearton mass.

Shadowrath, on the other hand, have one less health bar when compared to speartons, but have greater attack, much greater speed, and much greater skills as well. True, fixate isn't very useful unless in early-to-mid game, but don't try to tell me that shield wall and shield bash are better than shinobi lv2. At best, with shield bash, speartons are just miner walls that require micromanaging or enslaved giants without the range.

True, in combinations, the speartons can defeat shadowrath massers, spearton-archers, spearton-magikill, spearton-flying archer combos are all more powerful than most shadowrath combos; but that doesn't mean a spearton is stronger than a shadowrath, only that the shadowrath is less compatible with other troops.

Besides, even in shadowrath versus spearton confrontations, shadowrath hold the upper hand. They can always run away first, so they control when the battle takes place; they can always use solo hit-and-run missions to poison speartons if the speartons hold their positions. The only way spearton can win is when you max population, but any competent player won't let their opponents reach max population when they have already done so.

I think that the reason most people think speartons are stronger than shadowrath are because shadowrath are designed as single-combat units. Spearton work best when you have a lot of them in a shield wall tanking damage with damage dealers hiding behind them, such as magikill, flying archers, or archers. But shadowraths aren't very compatible with other troops; they are damage dealers, but they can't use long-range attacks; they can't tank damage for long-range attackers; they can't be massed effectively without considerable micro managing skills; but they can whoop any other troop's ass in single combat.

While the spearton are built for large attacks, I think they are built for one-on-one conflicts; fixate makes them more powerful as they keep attacking in the same spot; their speed makes escape impossible except on very short maps; their shinobi ability can also one-shot most troops.

Except for the flying archers, I challenge anyone here to point out any type of troop that a shadowrath can't kill in single combat. Even giants can be killed with hit-and-runs on long maps.

fhtrg
07-09-2013, 07:18 AM
I joined up just to agree that shadowrath are way more powerful than speartons. They cost that extra population for a reason. Even without any skills, a shadowrath's fixate ability makes it more than a match for a spearton.

A spearton has weak attack, and is generally just there as a meat shield or as a tank in large numbers. Even then, a few magikill and walls can easily destroy a spearton mass.

Shadowrath, on the other hand, have one less health bar when compared to speartons, but have greater attack, much greater speed, and much greater skills as well. True, fixate isn't very useful unless in early-to-mid game, but don't try to tell me that shield wall and shield bash are better than shinobi lv2. At best, with shield bash, speartons are just miner walls that require micromanaging or enslaved giants without the range.

True, in combinations, the speartons can defeat shadowrath massers, spearton-archers, spearton-magikill, spearton-flying archer combos are all more powerful than most shadowrath combos; but that doesn't mean a spearton is stronger than a shadowrath, only that the shadowrath is less compatible with other troops.

Besides, even in shadowrath versus spearton confrontations, shadowrath hold the upper hand. They can always run away first, so they control when the battle takes place; they can always use solo hit-and-run missions to poison speartons if the speartons hold their positions. The only way spearton can win is when you max population, but any competent player won't let their opponents reach max population when they have already done so.

I think that the reason most people think speartons are stronger than shadowrath are because shadowrath are designed as single-combat units. Spearton work best when you have a lot of them in a shield wall tanking damage with damage dealers hiding behind them, such as magikill, flying archers, or archers. But shadowraths aren't very compatible with other troops; they are damage dealers, but they can't use long-range attacks; they can't tank damage for long-range attackers; they can't be massed effectively without considerable micro managing skills; but they can whoop any other troop's ass in single combat.

While the spearton are built for large attacks, I think they are built for one-on-one conflicts; fixate makes them more powerful as they keep attacking in the same spot; their speed makes escape impossible except on very short maps; their shinobi ability can also one-shot most troops.

Except for the flying archers, I challenge anyone here to point out any type of troop that a shadowrath can't kill in single combat. Even giants can be killed with hit-and-runs on long maps.
I agree but you have a few flaws: Medusa can kill a shadowrath unless it uses shinobi the exact right time.
Full shadowrath army>Full spearton army because the shadowraths can kill the statue faster and shinobi through in case of shield bash!
Shadowrath have 2 less bar, and no armor.
Best used to kill magikill!
And also shadowrath would be the fourth (possibly third if it could shinobi the right time with good micro) at 1v1 combat with shinobi if you just pressed attack and used spells.

Wyrmspawn
07-09-2013, 09:57 AM
I agree but you have a few flaws: Medusa can kill a shadowrath unless it uses shinobi the exact right time.
Full shadowrath army>Full spearton army because the shadowraths can kill the statue faster and shinobi through in case of shield bash!
Shadowrath have 2 less bar, and no armor.
Best used to kill magikill!
And also shadowrath would be the fourth (possibly third if it could shinobi the right time with good micro) at 1v1 combat with shinobi if you just pressed attack and used spells.

Well, yes, shadowrath are well-suited for assassination as well; but the main point is that in a no-micro match, a spearton without upgrades and a shadowrath without upgrades are about equal. However, this does not make the spearton as good as the shadowrath; If the spearton tries to run, it will get killed, but the shadowrath may run any time it wishes. With the upgrades, there is no way at all a spearton can kill a shadowrath.

The point is that if we are talking about troops as individual units, the shadowrath is undoubtedly the best unit of them all. It's fast as an upgraded crawler, it's fixate makes it possible to win seemingly stalemated battles, and its shinobi ability is immediately deadly to all ground units but giants.

How do you shinobi through shield bash, though? I tried once and got kited until I lost shinobi, whereupon I had to rush through speartons to the range of castle archers and lose the central tower as well as two shadowrath. Shadowrath with shinobi aren't as fast as speartons, so I usually send pairs of shadowrath on assasination missions until I kill enough of them or they get flying archers.

Anyway, I just want to say that speartons are quite possibly the weakest of the troops on their own; they are only used so much because archers and fliers could use mobile miner walls. In and of themselves, speartons are of little use to anyone.

xanderman222222
07-09-2013, 11:34 AM
Omg,whats your rating? Shadowrath are expensive,have low health and are crushed by pretty much anything.

Yes they are good. But only for assasination,Speartons/Juggerknights are the most important units for an army.
I have beat every shadowrath masser i have fought,seriously Speartons>Shadowrath.

P.S: This is coming from a shadowrath fanboy,look at my sig :D

FailingAtFailing
07-09-2013, 12:37 PM
Sometimes, I can't believe people. Shadowrath with low health and no armour and only melee are probably one of the WORST direct combat units. Shadowrath will only work for assassination above 1500 unless you mass them, and even then, it only really works if it's a large surprise and you're on the defensive. If you have the other person on the defensive, they will have castle archers to help defend and those will rip through shadowrath due to a lack of armour. If you are on the defensive, the other person can easily scout you if they want. If they scout and see shadows garrisoned, they can expect a rush and will build walls to block you and albows to decimate the shadowrath.

I dare you to try shadow mass against anyone above the 1600s or even the 1500s. It rarely works. Spearton mass is probably better than shadow mass and that's saying something.

Wyrmspawn
07-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Guys, read my post again. I said that massing shadowrath is useless, but I said that shadowrath are stronger units individually than spearton. Try using a spearton to kill a shadowrath.

Also, shadowrath aren't meant to be used in mass. As far as I know, the shadowrath is best used like a light cavalry unit for skirmishing and harrying. With a shadowrath mass, you are supposed to stop heavier units such as speartons from forming up and charging, by harrassing the economy, by assassinating individual spearton, or whatever means necessary.

Sometimes, I don't believe how lazy people are at reading posts.

You see the big title shadowrath > spearton and you automatically go to shadowrath mass vs spearton mass. At least have the decency to read through the post before insulting it.

Nyarlathotep
07-09-2013, 11:06 PM
Guys, read my post again. I said that massing shadowrath is useless, but I said that shadowrath are stronger units individually than spearton. Try using a spearton to kill a shadowrath.

It will kill a spearton in a 1v1 without abilities, HOWEVER, this won't matter when other units like archers come into play. Besides that is only barely wins in a 1v1. Shadows are late game units always. if you make them any sooner than the late game expect enemy armors to overpower and overwhelm you.

And honestly, you're comparing apples and oranges here. Shadows aren't meant to be used in small skirmishes. They are meant for quick assassination kills and harassment. Its not about which is better on its own, its about when to use them effectively and why.

Invincitron
07-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Well, in 1v1 Spearton wins (If the Shadowrath doesn't have Shinobi, if it does then Shadowrath will lose). Obviously the armies have back up units, so it won't really matter which one is better.

Wyrmspawn
07-10-2013, 02:08 AM
Hey, this was a thread one which one we prefer, the spearton and the shadowrath. I'm a minor shadowrath user, so I thought I should at least post my opinion here. No offense to spearton users.

ShadowGeneralChaos
07-10-2013, 03:42 AM
Hey, this was a thread one which one we prefer, the spearton and the shadowrath. I'm a minor shadowrath user, so I thought I should at least post my opinion here. No offense to spearton users.

Hey ho :) I also prefere shadowraths :) but still: Its obviously that the most player use speartons more than shadowraths, althought they prefere shadowraths more. They are just use to assassinate magikills, merics and miners :) but its a really important role I think ;)

fhtrg
07-10-2013, 07:17 AM
Hey ho :) I also prefere shadowraths :) but still: Its obviously that the most player use speartons more than shadowraths, althought they prefere shadowraths more. They are just use to assassinate magikills, merics and miners :) but its a really important role I think ;)WHY WOULD THEY WASTE SHINOBI AND PUT THE SHADOWRATH IN DANGER TO KILL A MINER???

ShadowGeneralChaos
07-10-2013, 07:50 AM
WHY WOULD THEY WASTE SHINOBI AND PUT THE SHADOWRATH IN DANGER TO KILL A MINER???

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1626509&version=1.65

Wyrmspawn
07-10-2013, 09:16 AM
lol, nice reply shadow. That's not really how I play shadowrath though... I usually use shadowrath on the long map when I can't giant spam. I just make some merics and put them there to heal shadowrath while I send wave after wave of assassins, again, and again, and again... Almost as good as giant spamming, unless they manage to save up enough for allbowtrosses.

merich1
07-10-2013, 09:59 AM
lol, nice reply shadow. That's not really how I play shadowrath though... I usually use shadowrath on the long map when I can't giant spam. I just make some merics and put them there to heal shadowrath while I send wave after wave of assassins, again, and again, and again... Almost as good as giant spamming, unless they manage to save up enough for allbowtrosses.

Easy. My entire setup lets me get about 6 Albows, with Miner Walls, and then you have no counter.

ShadowGeneralChaos
07-10-2013, 10:05 AM
lol, nice reply shadow. That's not really how I play shadowrath though... I usually use shadowrath on the long map when I can't giant spam. I just make some merics and put them there to heal shadowrath while I send wave after wave of assassins, again, and again, and again... Almost as good as giant spamming, unless they manage to save up enough for allbowtrosses.

Actually, I dont use them this way too....I just wanted to show it....

stickman1401
07-10-2013, 05:01 PM
yo u no how to a make a game on stick page

fhtrg
07-11-2013, 06:55 AM
Anyways, I beat a person over 1600 rating with shadowrath mass.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1724945&version=1.66

ShadowGeneralChaos
07-11-2013, 09:27 AM
Anyways, I beat a person over 1600 rating with shadowrath mass.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1724945&version=1.66

LOL....good replay.... but you should work on your macro more.....and: He was really above 1600?!? Or you was just too lucky....however: At first I thought you would loose this one....WOW, not bad, you have my RESPECT ;)

DEMONGOD
07-12-2013, 11:20 AM
Well shadows an speartons actually go hand in hand together,

think about it 3 shadow an 1 spear, will slaughter 4 spears, even if u involve other units in the mix, as long as the spear protects his brethren shadow, they can dish out assassinations without leaving themselves exposed

FailingAtFailing
07-12-2013, 11:33 AM
Well shadows an speartons actually go hand in hand together,

think about it 3 shadow an 1 spear, will slaughter 4 spears, even if u involve other units in the mix, as long as the spear protects his brethren shadow, they can dish out assassinations without leaving themselves exposed

Or they all target the shadowrath first?

DEMONGOD
07-12-2013, 11:53 AM
Well the shadows stay a fair distance away ofc, only coming in for assassination an fixate blows hidden behind the spear

FailingAtFailing
07-12-2013, 12:04 PM
Well the shadows stay a fair distance away ofc, only coming in for assassination an fixate blows hidden behind the spear

But when the shadow comes in and activates shinobi, their speed is reduced and the enemy can escape, when the shadow comes out of shinobi, it is then vulnerable.

DEMONGOD
07-13-2013, 05:44 AM
well if you time the shinobi right, theres no way to dodge it,
you simply dont activate until right ontop of the unit, an if u micro pro enough, move ur spearton in front of the shadow an then hes not exposed

fhtrg
07-14-2013, 09:04 PM
Go behind them then use shinobi.

Wyrmspawn
07-14-2013, 09:13 PM
No, you use shinobi when you are on top of them. Otherwise the spearton will just form a shield wall between your shadowrath and your base, so your shadowrath can't retreat and must attack their base instead.

FailingAtFailing
07-14-2013, 09:30 PM
No, you use shinobi when you are on top of them. Otherwise the spearton will just form a shield wall between your shadowrath and your base, so your shadowrath can't retreat and must attack their base instead.

Wait, how do speartons in shield wall prevent shadowrath from escaping? Shield Bash? The targeting on that can be glitchy sometimes.