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View Full Version : The Forgotten Chaos Strategy CvO



ForgottenUser
08-10-2013, 05:12 PM
CAUTION: LONG READ

Opening Build:

Buy 2 Crawlers and 2 Miners. Make the miners mine the gold on either end of the field, not the center. Gold comes in faster this way. Send the first Crawler to the Center Tower the instant it is built. By this point your next crawler should be heading out and your gold from the first two miners should be deposited.

Reaction to their opening:

Harass their economy with your crawlers. If they garrison, good. If not, they lose their miners, hurting them horribly early game. If their Spearton follows you back, level up your economy and get a Juggerknight fast while your crawlers kite his Spearton. If he goes for your miners, garrison them and attack his economy regardless. The crawlers will do more damage than his Spearton. With the extra money you made, you can buy another crawler and send to his statue to speed up what will be a slow defeat for him.
Buy a third crawler and kite it to death. Take control of the center and level up your economy to outmatch theirs. Pressure economy as fast as possible.
Attempt to kite with your crawlers. If it is a short map, buy 2 bombs instead of the usual crawler and take them out. If it is a long map, buy a crawler to help kite them and then go for bomb(s).
If it's a short map, generally they can defeat you if they know what they are doing. If they don't pressure you immediately, buy 2-3 bombs and level up your economy. Tech-up and take out his swords. If he rushes you, chances are you're done for, but that's not a fact. Buy a third crawler and use one of the miners who just deposited gold to help. Do this a few times and upgrade you crawler armada. Attack when you feel comfortable you can beat him.
Send your crawler back to your base and buy a third crawler. Attack his archer with your crawlers using micro and it will die. Take center.
If he goes and buys a second Archidon, buy 2 bombs and wipe them out. He just wasted 600 gold. Make sure to protect bombs with crawlers so they aren't shot.
Target the Archidon with your crawlers and the Swordwrath with your miners. Take out both units using micro and then hold tower.
You're pretty much done for. Attempt the above, though you shouldn't expect much. This strategy as Order tends to win. Try to protect yourself as best you can. Buy Castle Dead fast or try to rush his Archidons with a few bombs.
Skip to the mid-game section.

Mid Game:

At this point generally you have the Tower with a few crawlers and 4 Miners. A rush on their economy with only crawlers will likely prove useless due to the Castle Archer. Buy 3 Miners as soon as possible. Set the first one that comes out to praying and the other two to gold. Get an early Juggerknight and send it to the center. At this point, one of a few things will most likely be happening:

This next bit depends largely on where they have placed their wall. If they placed it in front of their first row of gold, focus on economy and tech up faster than them. Since they have cut off their second row of gold, you can outproduce them for a win. If they placed their wall in front of their second row of gold, buy just enough miners to ensure you can get a constant stream of Deads and Juggerknights. Make the deads attack their wall. If they need protection from the castle archer, move your Juggerknights in front of them or get Tower Spawn. Every time they build another wall, they lose 200 gold and a miner has to go and build it. Tech up your economy while they are busy and buy a Medusa. while it is queuing, research Charge for your Juggerknights. Make the Medusa stone face the wall and charge their miners with your Juggerknights. Take out as many as possible. If they were able to get a small army up, this can be combated in various ways. If they have archers, buy bombs. If they have Speartons in shield wall, poison them until they must garrison and stone face with medusas. Those two are the most imminent threats. If they try other strategies of turtling, buy units accordingly.
If they attack, pull back. Try to pick off miners if possible. Try to beat them through economical means. Depending on what units they purchase, react accordingly. If they buy Archidons, buy bombs and a meat shield of crawlers. If they buy albowtrosses, buy deads and bombers. If they buy Magikill go for Medusas. etc.

Late Game:
Generally, you are in a better position at this point. One of four things may have happened:

Pressure behind Towerspawn Two. Gradually wear them down. Their gold will run out eventually. Watch out for Magikill and Shadowrath. If they can still beat you, they deserve the win and are probably just a better player than you.
Buy about twenty bombs and hide them in your garrison. Get a few Marrowkai and Giants to do AOE and research Castle Deads. When they attack, the bombs will kill most of them. Marrowkai and Giants will finish them off. If they try to run, the poison will take them out.
Wow that sucks. You should work on your micro then. They deserve the win if you were that far ahead and still lost.
If they were able to mass a high tech unit, you weren't pressuring them enough. I'm probably going to make a thread on which Chaos units counter Order units sometime in the future.

End Game:
Hopefully you crushed them with this strategy. It seems to work for me about 8/10 times when I play, and I'm in the 1800's at the moment, so it seems effective for this level. I have no clue how it will work at higher levels. Any suggestions to make this better or errors to point out?

stickman311
08-10-2013, 11:41 PM
Wow then you would die without going to mid game if your gonna use that vs archer sword, archer masser, constant swords, and continuous archer sword. Attack the archer first dude. 3 crawlers can't defeat archer also dude. U wasted 2 bombs. They splited their swords.
Also, my understanding of larger army, means, they have 12 miners miner hustle 4 on mana, you have 8 miners 4 miners on mana without miner hustle, you have 1 eclipsor 1 jugger, i have 4 archers 2 spears 2 merics. Done.

ForgottenUser
08-11-2013, 12:06 AM
I love how you somehow magically trump every strategy ever posted... Remind me again why you aren't ranked #1 again? This strategy has had me win again and again against Order players.
You're right on Archer Sword. I miss-posted and will fix that as soon as I'm done posting here.
As for archer masser, it always works. If they split their archers providing your micro sucks you still just gained a 150 gold head-start on them. The remaining 3 crawlers can take down an archer if micro'd correctly. It's quite effective I might add. Constant swords... hmmm... if they do split their units, I'll just murder them with my crawlers and hold the bombs back. My Bomber and Medusa micro is ridiculously good. If any of his other units try to help the sword I'm targeting, they die and I have the advantage. As for the continuous archer sword... no s*** Sherlock. That's exactly what I said in the spoiler. You probably will lose if they know what they are doing.
How exactly do you figure that I'm going to let you have that kind of a set up? Provided I do get the center, which is fairly likely, your economy will probably be 1-2 miners higher than mine. A slight advantage to you. We would tech up at nearly the same rate with my bonus of the center tower. Considering the fact that (most) Chaos units are built faster than their Order counterparts, if anything I should have more units than you. Nowhere in my strategy did I say I limited myself to the first row of gold. Just the opposite. Read it again. I don't see how you figure you can just magically poof up some units and beat a strategy. I noted this one's weaknesses as well as strengths. If you would care to explain how you somehow managed not to be harassed economically and built up an army 4 times as good as mine, I'll send my rebuttal then.

stickman311
08-11-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm talking top 50 here, your talking 1800s in top 50 1 archer wins 3 crawlers. You only have 3 crawlers, and i have 2 swords and 1 coming. So you buy 2 bombs. I have 3 swords at the time. I just use 2 swords attack you, 1 behind. If yo use your 2 bombs, i immediately split. So, i win.
You don't have to know my set up. You just have to know what i start with. That's all. Done. In short maps, chaos is a definitely loss to multiple archers. Even in pro levels.

ForgottenUser
08-11-2013, 12:35 AM
I'm talking top 50 here, your talking 1800s in top 50 1 archer wins 3 crawlers. You only have 3 crawlers, and i have 2 swords and 1 coming. So you buy 2 bombs. I have 3 swords at the time. I just use 2 swords attack you, 1 behind. If yo use your 2 bombs, i immediately split. So, i win.
You don't have to know my set up. You just have to know what i start with. That's all. Done. In short maps, chaos is a definitely loss to multiple archers. Even in pro levels.

And I'm talking 1800's. The thread is based around the fact. I even said I had no clue how it would match up against high ranking players. Did you even bother to read my strategy? I said exactly how to counter a split before. You can't focus on crawlers with a melee unit while they are split. I would have to know your setup to make a rebuttal, otherwise this turns into a game that children play, where you can instantly trump anything put out. As for short maps to multiple archers, not always. with a sufficient meatshield and micro you can blow them all to bits. The problem about short maps with archers is that there is less room to kite. The amount of damage a meatshield would take wouldn't be enough to go through it completely. If you want me to break this down to it's base level where I show gold cost for every unit and how it would play out, I could do it, though I don't want to waste an hour on such a small detail.

stickman311
08-11-2013, 02:49 AM
Wow ever played pro level?

_Ai_
08-11-2013, 04:08 AM
Wow ever played pro level?

Ever not annoyed every single person around here? Ever tried reading?

Oh wait I forgot you're the best player ever that could beat everyone but magically not #1.

stickman311
08-11-2013, 04:33 AM
Ever not annoyed every single person around here? Ever tried reading?

Oh wait I forgot you're the best player ever that could beat everyone but magically not #1.

Everybody has weaknesses. Mine is order vs order on short map, and that's a really big one.
I did, and do you want me to write a long message about how order is seriously OP in short maps like castle?
Well, i'll just tell you one fact for now. If you want to know about more like how getting bombers suck when tou only have 3 crawlers, say it.
2 crawlers with 3 bombers or 3 cats with 2 bombers only kills one archer in two archers with only 1 cat escaping. If your attacking miners, the most you can do is 1 or two, with none surviving

ShadowGeneralChaos
08-11-2013, 08:48 AM
Everybody has weaknesses. Mine is order vs order on short map, and that's a really big one.

Ha, lol, mines too ^^ I cant really handle Order on short map... but I will train to vanish my weakness ^^ ya should do it too ^^

WheresMyCheetos
08-11-2013, 05:17 PM
The lesson here is that stick man should have a muffle to prevent all these negative comments,

on the topic Good job forgotten, im too lazy to remember some now all I have to do is read this :)
and that, stickman is positive ever heard of it?

MashalCeen
08-12-2013, 06:23 AM
hohoho this really helped me!
Replay:www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay2177804&version=1.69

thanx man

fhtrg
08-12-2013, 08:20 PM
How do you kite with crawlers?

PUMU
08-13-2013, 09:42 PM
And I'm talking 1800's. The thread is based around the fact. I even said I had no clue how it would match up against high ranking players. Did you even bother to read my strategy? I said exactly how to counter a split before. You can't focus on crawlers with a melee unit while they are split. I would have to know your setup to make a rebuttal, otherwise this turns into a game that children play, where you can instantly trump anything put out. As for short maps to multiple archers, not always. with a sufficient meatshield and micro you can blow them all to bits. The problem about short maps with archers is that there is less room to kite. The amount of damage a meatshield would take wouldn't be enough to go through it completely. If you want me to break this down to it's base level where I show gold cost for every unit and how it would play out, I could do it, though I don't want to waste an hour on such a small detail.
I'm going to pick a side to this discussion using ancient methods of deduction passed down to me from my elders and my elders' elders. Eenie meenie... Ah screw it ill just say that the game has changed a bit since you've been away.

Wyrmspawn
08-13-2013, 10:08 PM
I've just thought of something very interesting.

What if you get 2 crawlers while order player gets a spearton, and he attacks your miners, while you garrison and attack his, and he also garrisons? Then it would be a waiting war; both of you can't get the miners out without getting them killed, and both of you don't have the gold to make another unit.

It would probably be a very interesting fight...

PUMU
08-13-2013, 10:34 PM
This is assuming opponent goes spearton early which is in the lower ranking range I believe.

Wyrmspawn
08-13-2013, 10:45 PM
I dunno; Early spearton is really effective against standard chaos starts even up to the 1700s, If chaos had gone for bombers, then it's gg for chaos. But again, it's a problem; because even if the strategy is a noob strategy, it might cause problems for this otherwise pretty good strategy. It's like giant massing. You will never expect it, but knowing that the strategy might have a weakness prompts me to point it out.

stickman311
08-14-2013, 10:09 AM
Going for bombs isn't a good strategy. Only go for bombs when you have around 6 or, you are in danger.

Wyrmspawn
08-14-2013, 10:33 AM
Yeah, but you can see how tempting it is for chaos; their opponent seems to be turtling (actually, it's early spearton). Let's make some bombs and stop the turtle. Because the early spear start is so noobish that it isn't in the range of their calculations at all.

fhtrg
08-14-2013, 04:35 PM
I dunno; Early spearton is really effective against standard chaos starts even up to the 1700s, If chaos had gone for bombers, then it's gg for chaos. But again, it's a problem; because even if the strategy is a noob strategy, it might cause problems for this otherwise pretty good strategy. It's like giant massing. You will never expect it, but knowing that the strategy might have a weakness prompts me to point it out. Yep, I have got LOTS of problems with early spearton with chaos. But if the chaos player gets early juggernight, your screwed.

And can someone tell me how to kite with crawlers?

THEFORCE
08-15-2013, 12:00 PM
Yep, I have got LOTS of problems with early spearton with chaos. But if the chaos player gets early juggernight, your screwed.

And can someone tell me how to kite with crawlers?

Kiting with crawlers means that you take advantage of the crawler speed and auto HP regen to not lose that crawler while at the same time killing his enemies with other crawlers. Retread back with your crawler and charge again. During the time it retreats, it gains a few HP unlike the order unit. Keep doing this til the enemy dies.

fhtrg
08-15-2013, 06:27 PM
So you attack, run around in circles. then attack?

stickman311
08-16-2013, 12:24 AM
So you attack, run around in circles. then attack?

actually theres 4 ways. That's one way, another is to garrison the injured crawler, and another is to go back to base to regroup and pssive heal then attack, another is to take injured crawler, don't bring it to battle, just stay near the fight area.

ForgottenUser
08-20-2013, 04:08 PM
I've just thought of something very interesting.

What if you get 2 crawlers while order player gets a spearton, and he attacks your miners, while you garrison and attack his, and he also garrisons? Then it would be a waiting war; both of you can't get the miners out without getting them killed, and both of you don't have the gold to make another unit.

It would probably be a very interesting fight...

I had been gone camping for a week, so I couldn't see this for a while. With crawlers, you can gradually win against a spearton rusher. 1 holds the center for passive income and then helps the others attack the statue. Keep buying more crawlers/a castle dead and you win.

ShadowWhisper
08-22-2013, 10:17 AM
This was forgotten? That was the most common use of Chaos back in the day...

ForgottenUser
08-22-2013, 10:32 AM
This was forgotten? That was the most common use of Chaos back in the day...

Might be. I just didn't see it anywhere else here, so I decided to post it. Works well for me.

ShadowWhisper
08-23-2013, 09:44 AM
Might be. I just didn't see it anywhere else here, so I decided to post it. Works well for me.

I see. Perhaps you'd like some Chaos vs Order since my Membership expired...?