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PUMU
12-18-2014, 08:20 AM
How is this played on each map size?

_Ai_
12-18-2014, 08:34 AM
2 crawlers 2 miners, at any map size at all.

Short maps you go deads, long maps you go wings.

PUMU
12-18-2014, 10:23 AM
mm... a little bit more detail plz.
before i had basically any defense a player threw a charrog and tree at me to which i had little answer for other than to throw my miners at the charrog to push it away and a bomb or two to deter scorps i was forced into a chaos turtle with turrets and wings as going deads wasnt as effective and delivering good dps vs the charrogs rushing in with the fires throwing stuff at my miners.

Skeletonxf
12-18-2014, 10:50 AM
Why does that game sound familiar...

PUMU
12-18-2014, 02:32 PM
muerto somethin did it to me

Skeletonxf
12-18-2014, 03:38 PM
Oh, it seemed somewhat like a game I played with either you or Kaito a day ago.

Juggerman1
12-18-2014, 04:02 PM
2 crawlers 2 miners, at any map size at all.

Short maps you go deads, long maps you go wings.

No deads, deads are the worst possible thing you can buy. Fires destroy, Waters and scorch also help, and Vastolis and Meteor are an instant RIP for them.

Skeletonxf
12-19-2014, 08:25 AM
I believe the dead start on short maps is done because you can bring out a very tough army very fast. But of course, as you've said, deads are a bad mid and lategame macro.

xMohammad99
01-07-2015, 01:28 AM
Hi , here is CvE Replay Me (chaos) Hahasil (elemental) Classic Match.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay8046951&version=2.22

Chaos win. ;)

xMohammad99

HashBrownTrials
01-07-2015, 08:23 AM
In CvE you could overwhelm with crawlers in the beginning depending on what the ele player starts with. Never go deads, always wings.

spino
01-10-2015, 10:43 AM
I am like a master at CvE except when I make little mistakes in my build.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7587933&version=2.22 the gist of it Early game vs early fire Kinda bad macro by me but it worked out against his fire mass.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7889387&version=2.22 Batter macro vs early fire

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7977423&version=2.22 Good DM evample

If this doesn't get the point across I can explain in almost an article on each start and how to counter it

nutsophast
01-12-2015, 01:49 AM
Sorry to say spino but those are terrible examples. I could barely watch one whole replay, that's how bad it was. I'll just try to explain what was wrong as simply as I can.

Replay #1: Fire mass isn't the way to go period. The guy didn't have a single tank, not even a tree. He also didn't get upgrades until it was too late.

Replay #2: Slayer is a strong 2k, but he just goofed with eles. His micro was okay but he kept macro switching which is the main problem. For any empire, you do NOT want to switch macro unless the situation is very very urgent. Reason is because switching would mean you have to build units all over again in the middle of battle. First he switched fires to airs, then he switched tree to charrog, he was never able to have a strong army.

Replay #3: Far from a good example, he was just wasting his combinations. His trees were just sitting there doing nothing, his inferno micro was laughable, did you see where he actually targeted the dragon? No upgrades, no basic ranged units.

Yes I'd like to see your article, sorry if the explanation wasn't that simple or quick.

HashBrownTrials
01-13-2015, 11:19 AM
I am like a master at CvE except when I make little mistakes in my build.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7587933&version=2.22 the gist of it Early game vs early fire Kinda bad macro by me but it worked out against his fire mass.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7889387&version=2.22 Batter macro vs early fire

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay7977423&version=2.22 Good DM evample

If this doesn't get the point across I can explain in almost an article on each start and how to counter it

You're the master at CvE against mediocore players, not pro players. With the exception of slayer, he's 2k. He did good though..

spino
01-14-2015, 04:22 PM
You're the master at CvE against mediocore players, not pro players. With the exception of slayer, he's 2k. He did good though..
I recently figured out my CvE saying master was a little over the top but I am descent.
Yea I understand they are not good examples because 90% of people that play ele have no idea how the hell to do anything right. That also is a big tip is CvE see if they no what they are doing ;)

And after going through it with DAZ I am unable to show you the thread because it is a TZ strategy thread.

Pretty much Attack miners (unless fire) and ensure you have the better eco. switch between bombs and cats. If he attack your base with earths use you bombers on them. Get eclipsors and if he went early CAir then go Tower spawn before jug tank. (Jugs/towers spawn occur between 2-4 eclipsors depending on when needed) Continue to tech into marrowkia and eventually giants (if it goes into a late game stretch) Vs must be dealt with as fast as possible. You should have better economy if not you have screwed the hell outta yourself.

Pretty much keep eclipsors and marrow safe don't need to worry about garrisoning crawls early game or jugs medium-late.

HashBrownTrials
01-15-2015, 05:53 AM
I recently figured out my CvE saying master was a little over the top but I am descent.
Yea I understand they are not good examples because 90% of people that play ele have no idea how the hell to do anything right. That also is a big tip is CvE see if they no what they are doing ;)

And after going through it with DAZ I am unable to show you the thread because it is a TZ strategy thread.

Pretty much Attack miners (unless fire) and ensure you have the better eco. switch between bombs and cats. If he attack your base with earths use you bombers on them. Get eclipsors and if he went early CAir then go Tower spawn before jug tank. (Jugs/towers spawn occur between 2-4 eclipsors depending on when needed) Continue to tech into marrowkia and eventually giants (if it goes into a late game stretch) Vs must be dealt with as fast as possible. You should have better economy if not you have screwed the hell outta yourself.

Pretty much keep eclipsors and marrow safe don't need to worry about garrisoning crawls early game or jugs medium-late.

Yeah, I understand. I don't really need a guide anyways ;P

PUMU
04-06-2015, 09:02 PM
Reviving this. I need help vs tree start on castle. I watched a replay of the enemy going into 2 trees and a charrog with a fire and water with only 6 miners on gold and one on mana at the end.

Zomar
04-07-2015, 03:01 AM
Was it actually a tree start? If so, all you need to do is target his miners while killing the scorplings with your own miners (Since C miners can anime-cancel). Then target the tree if he garrisons. For the second scenario which is different, you just play normally.. crawlers w/ upgrades, bombs, and lots of wings. You honestly can go wrong against E with C.

PUMU
04-07-2015, 07:07 AM
3 scorps target my miners usually resulting in a free kill as miner anim canceling puts me off of gold where I'll only have 3 crawlers or so by the time he rushes them into base then he spams the earths so that even if I manage to kill his chomplers he'll end up with the same or slightly more miners at the end.
A properly microed and macroed tree start on castle.
I tried stalling out with my crawlers attacking enemy Eco. Didn't work too well. Castle dead is obviously a waste unless the tree spawns in base where I anim cancel the tree into oblivion. By the time I manage to apply the pressure I need even if I deter the tree, I end up with maybe 2-3 wings vs 2 trees harassing my Eco with scorps the charrog and possible scorch.
My sure when to go hustle on castle vs ele

Zomar
04-07-2015, 12:38 PM
In a tree start, you just need to mirror whatever his scorplings do with your crawlers. Except if he attacks your crawlers, you just attack the tree, then go back to miners etc. Seriously though, if you can't kill 3 scorplings with 4 miners + maybe 1 crawler, and can't stop his 2 chomplers from mining with 3+ crawlers, you need to seriously review what you're doing.

HashBrownTrials
04-07-2015, 02:13 PM
You could also tech into wings and work your way into his trees.

PUMU
04-07-2015, 08:19 PM
In a tree start, you just need to mirror whatever his scorplings do with your crawlers. Except if he attacks your crawlers, you just attack the tree, then go back to miners etc. Seriously though, if you can't kill 3 scorplings with 4 miners + maybe 1 crawler, and can't stop his 2 chomplers from mining with 3+ crawlers, you need to seriously review what you're doing.

I can kill his scorps easy with miners but nontheless I end up sac a miner to do so as I can't anim cancel all 3 scorps simultaneously. If I rush to base with 4 crawlers he'll simply buy earths as he got of mana after gathering 86 mana.
Then he sniped my crawlers as they were weakened by enemy earths and scorps.
Keep in mind the map is castle zomar. I'm fully aware of ele flaws and strengths being one l the few people that know how to play it. I even tested the macro against several chaos peeps on castle recently and found they could not find a way around it. The trees are a giant health Popsicle. Even if the tree dies. I brought 3 trees to replace it and 3 fires before the opponent could even touch mana. I scorch at any point the game ends.
@hash. Derp. I know that. It still gives him the ability to target
Miners with his scorps and hide behind his trees with fires if need be.

Zomar
04-08-2015, 04:23 PM
Just ignore the tree, once you have enough crawlers the scorplings will be useless. You shouldn't be letting him make earths seen as he is defenceless. Just kill the scorplings, attack miners, keep making miners and crawlers..

PUMU
04-08-2015, 04:50 PM
Vs chaos (the user I proved to him as well how effective earths can be in protecting the base even in small numbers combined with scorps for extra dps if need be.
What you are suggesting works on anything other than castle in the macro used.
I'll post the replays when I can of him using it on me and myself adopting it.

Mystery
04-09-2015, 12:15 AM
Vs chaos (the user I proved to him as well how effective earths can be in protecting the base even in small numbers combined with scorps for extra dps if need be.
What you are suggesting works on anything other than castle in the macro used.
I'll post the replays when I can of him using it on me and myself adopting it.

it depends on who you are facing lol

for me, the castle dead start already counters ele against 99% players LOL

PUMU
04-09-2015, 03:51 AM
So when should I tech into castle dead?
Immediately to where I give the opponent free cheese if they don't go tree?
Or when the scorps boss rush in before castle dead is available losing a miner and spending 300 on a single target defense?
I can try to see what works best vs the macro but I really did try my damnedest. By the time I could do anything to get back I had an enemy scotch possiblity, more tree set ups and a charrog for some reason.
(Talking about chaos the user, khans buddy)

HashBrownTrials
04-09-2015, 09:43 AM
CvE is all about the marrow mass. Nubz

MasterKaito
04-09-2015, 02:34 PM
for the crawler thing zomar, it is effective but beware of scorch..

Mystery
04-10-2015, 02:35 PM
So when should I tech into castle dead?
Immediately to where I give the opponent free cheese if they don't go tree?
Or when the scorps boss rush in before castle dead is available losing a miner and spending 300 on a single target defense?
I can try to see what works best vs the macro but I really did try my damnedest. By the time I could do anything to get back I had an enemy scotch possiblity, more tree set ups and a charrog for some reason.
(Talking about chaos the user, khans buddy)

basically it depends on map size

if it is castle shit, I will get castle dead once I get my first 300 gold (2miners ->castle dead) no matter what start i meet
but if it is other maps, I will keep on getting miners while getting a few bomber to cheese, and only get castle dead when I meet fire start

Turret start actually works quite well


CvE is all about the marrow mass. Nubz

Chaos is all about marrow nubz. Just mass marrow in every match then you get 3k rating

Nyarlathotep
04-10-2015, 02:57 PM
Chaos is all about marrow nubz. Just mass marrow in every match then you get 3k rating

Can confirm

spino
04-10-2015, 03:56 PM
So it is my understanding in CvE you suddenly use crawler/wing mass to counter Vs.