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View Full Version : Caelo (Kodi) v. Vern (Wyvern)



Vern
02-28-2015, 01:16 PM
So Caelo challenged me during my fight with Cassandra, and after having finished that battle I gladly took up her challenge. Due to some RL reasons my work got delayed quite a bit but nevertheless I managed to finish it (Thanks @Caelo for not complaining about due date and understanding my RL situation c: )

Bla bla, here's the battles ^^



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VhdPRrWSXAS07Ra-hSr_3U2BpwlqGlKjGfUXVzf0pJ4/edit



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x6qvb18Vs-FXx6TMsPSrRIdgC-0NSHopY3j82rNJ7Ow/edit?usp=sharing

Some quick and important notes here :

Concerning this battle in general
We have discussed and agreed upon a mutual setting for the battle, this to make sense in our current project, the O.P. collab. Consider anything that does not seem to immediately link to any of our works fore/after-shadowing of the collab ;)

One of two works shall be incorporated into the collab (to give you an idea) though in the end ErrorBlender has the final say about this, not the result of this battle.

It's also ESSENTIAL to realize that neither Kodi nor Wyvern are aware that they are allies.


My work counts 6.370 words and amounts to a whopping 13 pages (of which 4 pages are intro..), exceeding Caelo's work by 9 pages (though length does not guarantee quality.)

At first I had trouble making a decent battle out of it since I generally write out of Wyvern's perspective. Earlier I was told that my battle with Venox was considered too one-sided (which it was) and I tried to step out of that for this one, though it proved quite the challenge since Kodi seems weaker than she actually is at first sight. When you'd boil down Wyvern and Kodi to their essence, Wyvern would oneshot her with ease (considering that Wyvern trumps all of her strengths and is practically the incarnation of most of her weaknesses).

For this reason I've decided to experiment with something else and I began writing from Kodi's perspective halfway through (as signified by the '~'). When writing from Kodi's perspective her strengths became more apparent to me and it became easier to make a decent battle, though one still has to take into consideration that when it comes down to it Wyvern destroys Kodi and that this fact is incorporated into the battle, though I have tried to do so in a sense that it doesn't make the battle one-sided.

Despite that, providing substantial purpose behind Wyvern's fights still proves challenging to me as the main reason he fights is simply for the sake of fighting.

Consider anything inexplicable concerning Wyvern foreshadowing.

Also keep in mind I'm not native English.


With that I wish my adversary, Caelo, most of luck and on our behalf I wish you, reader, most of fun reading our works.

ryanjr
03-01-2015, 02:46 PM
Hey guys, I must say that was a good battle on both parts. I didn't want to stop reading once I started. Both your writing styles were so different it added real texture. However, there has to be a winner.


As I read yours first, I felt it appropriate to CNC yours first. Im going to have to say length was a factor. Not that yours was short by any means. It just didn't seem to be as long as it should have been. There were a couple of discrepancies pertaining to knowledge of guns but that can be overlooked. Overall it was a good story with a realistic and believable storyline. You made Kodi powerful against an enemy that should be overwhelmingly overpowering to her. Tho only problem other than that was the factor of not representing Wyvern such as should be expected (to me). Wyvern's main "thing" is not to kill his opponent. Yet, it seemed at many points like he was definitely attempting to kill her.



Overall, I loved your story. You represented Caelo's character well from what I've seen previously and made it as much of a fair fight as possible while using both characters to their fullest ability. The battle was interesting to read and (on a personal note) I enjoyed your writing style. The battle followed a good plot with neither knowing exactly what the other was there for or what they were trying to accomplish. Good job.

Vern
03-02-2015, 02:23 PM
Thanks for your reaction, Ryan.
While I can't really say that your feedback towards me contained much that could help me improving-wise, it's always nice to receive a word of praise from now and then, and I'm really glad you made an attempt at CnC :).

I suppose I have a word or two for Caelo too, I'm sure she can appreciate whatever she can use to improve (well, I do at least :p).

First of all, I'm really impressed with the general detail of your work and the refined nature of the words you chose. You definitely made do with what poor situation you were given combat-wise (since Wyvern is quite capable of overpowering Kodi when it comes down to it, good job :) ).

Now, nothing is without flaw.
The first thing I want to point out (though completely irrelevant to the quality of your work) is a small technicality. I have done my research for the .357 Magnum Colt Python, and according to the wiki it is a double-trigger revolver, meaning that pulling the trigger will both cock and release the hammer, thus eliminating the need to cock the hammer beforehand (as you so explicitly depicted in your story :) ). It's also known for being a quite reliable sidearm, it's only flaw being the fact that the bullet-canister and triggering mechanism can un-align after intensive use.

Concerning characters, this is quite literally the first time I've seen Kodi in action and I must admit she's quite fleshed out (and it made me feel as if I failed to portray her the way she really was in my part, though I had little to work with but what's written on your char bio), that's nice, though I feel as if you made some misconceptions when it comes to Wyvern. His biggest weakness is probably his reluctance to kill people (considering the deadly quality of the armaments he employs..), though as Ryan said, it did seem quite the opposite in your story. Apart from that, it just really feels as if you underpowered him at some moments, though again I can't really blame you for doing that, it's just that it seems quite hard that a guy who believes the whole world wants to kill him would be so distracted that you could sneak up on him, I'm just saying :)

Concerning your writing itself, while I already stated I found it quite nice myself, I also must admit it became confusing at some moments. This could just simply be because I was somewhat tired, or because I'm not native English, OR because I am generally more used to a slower pace, but I had a hard time picturing the action itself at times. Since it's hard to point out anything really concrete I just hope you'll have enough with me saying so.
While one would say that your work could be considered short, I thought that the way it was written made it seem long enough and at the same time kept it enticing. In my opinion it could have been a tad longer (though that's more of a personal preference, I like both length and quality in both my own works and other works) but it was still quite ideal considering that the concept of the battle was just a straight on clash.

Keep in mind that any of the points said here do not eliminate me from having made the same mistakes, I am honestly not world's best provider of feedback but I hope it was at least somewhat useful...

ErrorBlender
03-05-2015, 12:58 AM
Excellent work from the both of you. I've said my thoughts on which one is preferred on the collab document itself.

Anyways, detail/length struggle. And CnC time. :D


Again, good job on the both of you. You've got skills in showing us what you've imagined and placing it neatly on the world of words and its awesome to have you aboard the OP.




That's one mighty prologue. Lengthy but somewhat needed. I felt a bit of it could have been truncated and have started off where Wyvern met Chance as he wandered around the Tokyo suburbs.

The start of the battle was good. I'd like to raise the fact that Vern said he'd bring Kodi dead or alive yet he'd specifically told her in their combat sequence politely to come out and meet with Chance. Inconsistent or am I looking into it too much? [Note: Vern also mentions he means her no harm despite the previous words last said to Chance. I don't understand why he has to play cool kid to Chance if he just said it to be awesome.]

You've got a bit of run-on sentences and an entire sentence with double 'buts'. You could segment them easily to avoid the sentence dragging extensively.


They were locked in combat with each other, both throwing punch after punch at each other but both skillfully avoiding the blows, but when the archer launched her fist towards Wyvern it was met with his own hand.


. Effortlessly he plucked the arrow out of the air again in the same manner he had done before /cut off/ though when he snapped it in his hands and dropped it he found that his opponent had disappeared.

From the cut off, you could start a new sentence to avoid the large over-information in one sentence. Same goes with the duo-buts above it.

Good handling of perspective change, '~' haha. Moving on...


gracious fall
Did you mean graceful?

[Probable Preference Warning]
Try and avoid the use of ellipses unless its on dialogue. Use on descriptive or non-dialogue text is weird. This is from Kodi seeing things.

Also, whenever possible try to word out numbers.

End CnC.




Prologue was good; showed setting, time and main character directly and smoothly.

Battle was great, the description good. Despite the quickness of it all you could feel the tension. I have little to say though, this is good work. If there was anything wrong in this, I found nothing of the sort. Maybe the others can see them.

End CnC.


Caelo has this for me by a smidge. Both were great. :D

Vern
03-05-2015, 10:24 AM
Excellent work from the both of you. I've said my thoughts on which one is preferred on the collab document itself.

Anyways, detail/length struggle. And CnC time. :D


Again, good job on the both of you. You've got skills in showing us what you've imagined and placing it neatly on the world of words and its awesome to have you aboard the OP.




That's one mighty prologue. Lengthy but somewhat needed. I felt a bit of it could have been truncated and have started off where Wyvern met Chance as he wandered around the Tokyo suburbs.

The start of the battle was good. I'd like to raise the fact that Vern said he'd bring Kodi dead or alive yet he'd specifically told her in their combat sequence politely to come out and meet with Chance. Inconsistent or am I looking into it too much? [Note: Vern also mentions he means her no harm despite the previous words last said to Chance. I don't understand why he has to play cool kid to Chance if he just said it to be awesome.]

You've got a bit of run-on sentences and an entire sentence with double 'buts'. You could segment them easily to avoid the sentence dragging extensively.





From the cut off, you could start a new sentence to avoid the large over-information in one sentence. Same goes with the duo-buts above it.

Good handling of perspective change, '~' haha. Moving on...


Did you mean graceful?

[Probable Preference Warning]
Try and avoid the use of ellipses unless its on dialogue. Use on descriptive or non-dialogue text is weird. This is from Kodi seeing things.

Also, whenever possible try to word out numbers.

End CnC.




Prologue was good; showed setting, time and main character directly and smoothly.

Battle was great, the description good. Despite the quickness of it all you could feel the tension. I have little to say though, this is good work. If there was anything wrong in this, I found nothing of the sort. Maybe the others can see them.

End CnC.


Caelo has this for me by a smidge. Both were great. :D

I swear, you're gonna continue voting against me even it's the last thing you do ^^. (Though at least you're the one writing CnC *looks at everyone else*) No honestly though, perhaps you feel as if I could always do better?

Whatevs, I should probably start out that Wyvern stating "Dead or alive" isn't an inconsistency, rather it's sarcasm, though it seems nobody understood this so I'm going to refrain from adding any nuances in the future....
To be fair, more length means more mistakes, and it seems as if you're taking me out on that one. If you dislike my lack of over-description realize that me doing so would exponentially increase the length (as opposed to you asking me to keep it as short as possible), as I already had to cover a large scenario for it to make sense.

What exactly do you mean by run on sentences?

Yes I meant graceful.

And : What are ellipses? I just write on feel.

So either way thanks for your CnC, more stuff for me to look out for.

ErrorBlender
03-05-2015, 11:43 AM
Lemme answer a few. :)


What exactly do you mean by run on sentences?
Basically run-on sentences are sentences that have two independent ideas that can work as their own sentences. You have a few.


And : What are ellipses? I just write on feel.
Ellipses are these : ...

Also, I'm not taking you out for the length. I've chosen Cassandra's over yours despite her length [I believed she had the longer one] since she described only a bit better than yours. Additionally, I never said I liked over-description and applauded both of you for the great work with how you described already. Yes, I dislike overly lengthy stuff [hypocritical of me since I write a bit long myself] but as long as it comes along, keeps the reader stuck on his seat, it ain't a problem. I placed the 'length/detail' struggle bit on the first part since I will always use it as a reference. Also the 'mighty long prologue' was meant to be a compliment as it did its job but could've been shorter as I believe.


I swear, you're gonna continue voting against me even it's the last thing you do ^^. (Though at least you're the one writing CnC *looks at everyone else*)
It may seem that way but its just coincidence. Additionally, with Caelo, I see little to improve on and so I leave the rest for others to nitpick on and I notice some mistakes from you so I point them out; it doesn't mean I'm out to get you or anything but it comes with asking CnC.


No honestly though, perhaps you feel as if I could always do better?
I will always push you guys to do better. I'm your leader, my job is bring out the better in you.

Crank
03-05-2015, 03:54 PM
Links. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

But anyway!

Going on what some of the others said, I too really enjoyed the intro and found it to be a very good story! There were a few things that threw me off a little bit though, a few sentences in there were confusing to me to read, and there were a couple repeated words that put a few bumps in the flow, but I didn’t see them often, so I assume they just slipped through the cracks.

The pacing felt very tense and deliberate in the beginning, which is good, but then when the actual fighting started it felt a bit distant from the characters, and more like that of a spectator watching the blows. The 5 senses are what put people in the middle of the action, and unfortunately with only sight it’s difficult to convey desperation or many of the other emotions you’d like your reader to feel as the story continues in its course.

But she was back in range of the Sai, and it was only luck that saved her – where he’d slashed at her, under her right arm, her knife lay. And the black Tanto had stopped her from being sliced clean in half.

But she was back in range of the Sai, and it was only luck that saved her – where he’d slashed at her, under her right arm, her knife lay. And as the clang of steel striking steel brought noise to the mute melee, the huntress knew in her guarded heart that her black Tanto had stopped her from being sliced clean in half.

Not the best example, but the addition of feeling the cool metal, slippery sweat or things of the like could bring your reader in from the sidelines.

The other thing that threw me off a little bit was the ending. I don’t know, something about it felt off, like I’m just respawning without my gear in a video game. Kodi doesn’t seem to question anything even though a really weird situation had just occurred, and while I’m cool with not everything being answered instantly, it threw me off that it was hardly even addressed.

I just opened you Google Doc and no longer suspect I’ll have time to do it before my random meeting this evening. I’ll have something for you when I get home though!

EDIT: So I'm a liar. Free time got throat-punched today without warning, but I'll at least vote on the poll before it ends. If I somehow forget to CnC after a few days, feel free to harass me

Vern
03-07-2015, 06:39 PM
And so, yet another exciting battle is concluded.

Thank you all for taking the time to read our works, I hope you had fun, and special thanks to Ryan, Blender and Crank for making the effort to post CnC (I'm trusting Crank will still go ahead and make some for me ^^)

A great debut for Kodi and Caelo, and may they perform even better in the future :)

Crank
03-09-2015, 06:43 PM
This is sooooo overdue.

Anyway!

Vern:

Alright, so opening up, great intro! I see Error already mentioned it, but characterization to me is my favorite part of the story. What makes people tick, why they're there and everything linking together. You did all that in the intro which I thought was great, but I can understand how it could be perceived as long. I don't exactly have advice for that because again, that was where I liked it and the line of who likes what is a tricky thread to tread.

But on to actual advice!

Have you heard the saying "If it bleeds, it dies" before? It's overused so it's no something I'd recommend, but the concept of it is that even a beast seems immortal, with that first drop you see that it isn't, and in turn that it can be killed before it kills you. If I watched more horror movies I'd have a better example, but it'd be like stabbing Jason in the shoulder. As soon as you see that red, whatever you're fighting isn't invincible anymore and you get a rush of moral.

Vern opened the fight catching an arrow with his bare hands and then proceeded to dodge several more. To me, the one that grazes the back of his leg is a "It bleeds, it dies" moment, even though he's the protagonist here. Additionally, even though you touched on the results of the shot soon afterward, I want to feel, and feel that your reader should feel the first shot. It sets the pace for how intense the fight's about to be, and when you skip over that it feels like "John staggered after he got punched in the face." Staggering is good and all, but I really want to see him get punched in the face.

In his attempt to elude the arrows the warrior had tumbled over a loose piece of cardboard idling around in the alleyways, allowing one of the huntress’s arrows to pass through the flesh surrounding the back of his leg with ease.

In his attempt to elude the arrows the warrior had tumbled over a loose piece of cardboard idling around in the alleyways, and as his hands scraped against pavement he rolled on, steal glinted in the moonlight. Soaring true, the razor-edge of the projectile sliced the back of his calf, arrowhead turning red as a trail of crimson droplets followed it's trajectory before striking the ally like an isolated rain.

Like Error, I felt like there was something... off, with the dot-dot-dots (they will always be dot-dot-dots in my book). Predominantly, at least as far as I've seen, they're used for mocking, that uneasy feeling/suspicion, not knowing the word, or like, being depressed/disappointed.

"You remind me of your father... He was as weak as you are."

"Mike... What was that?"

"You know what you are? You're... Aw, dammit! It's right on the tip of my tongue! You're a... An asshole! There it is!"

"Jake called me an asshole today..."

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but it sounds like the word is getting dragged out, but also getting quieter. It's like when a band directer holds a note too damn long and everyone needs to breathe super bad. It just doesn't sound distinct or powerful, so things like this:

“How’s this for ineffective projectiles, jerk…”
Oh no.. It isn’t broken, is it?

Kinda read like this:

“How’s this for ineffective projectiles, jerk.”
Oh no. Kodi sighed. It isn’t broken, is it?

It just doesn't have the emphasis that it needs, and reading it like that sounds a bit odd.

All in all though, great job! It was a close fight from both of you, and ya both kicked ass!

And also:

Also keep in mind I'm not native English.
Then massive props.

Vern
03-09-2015, 06:56 PM
This is sooooo overdue.

Anyway!

Vern:

Alright, so opening up, great intro! I see Error already mentioned it, but characterization to me is my favorite part of the story. What makes people tick, why they're there and everything linking together. You did all that in the intro which I thought was great, but I can understand how it could be perceived as long. I don't exactly have advice for that because again, that was where I liked it and the line of who likes what is a tricky thread to tread.

But on to actual advice!

Have you heard the saying "If it bleeds, it dies" before? It's overused so it's no something I'd recommend, but the concept of it is that even a beast seems immortal, with that first drop you see that it isn't, and in turn that it can be killed before it kills you. If I watched more horror movies I'd have a better example, but it'd be like stabbing Jason in the shoulder. As soon as you see that red, whatever you're fighting isn't invincible anymore and you get a rush of moral.

Vern opened the fight catching an arrow with his bare hands and then proceeded to dodge several more. To me, the one that grazes the back of his leg is a "It bleeds, it dies" moment, even though he's the protagonist here. Additionally, even though you touched on the results of the shot soon afterward, I want to feel, and feel that your reader should feel the first shot. It sets the pace for how intense the fight's about to be, and when you skip over that it feels like "John staggered after he got punched in the face." Staggering is good and all, but I really want to see him get punched in the face.

In his attempt to elude the arrows the warrior had tumbled over a loose piece of cardboard idling around in the alleyways, allowing one of the huntress’s arrows to pass through the flesh surrounding the back of his leg with ease.

In his attempt to elude the arrows the warrior had tumbled over a loose piece of cardboard idling around in the alleyways, and as his hands scraped against pavement he rolled on, steal glinted in the moonlight. Soaring true, the razor-edge of the projectile sliced the back of his calf, arrowhead turning red as a trail of crimson droplets followed it's trajectory before striking the ally like an isolated rain.

Like Error, I felt like there was something... off, with the dot-dot-dots (they will always be dot-dot-dots in my book). Predominantly, at least as far as I've seen, they're used for mocking, that uneasy feeling/suspicion, not knowing the word, or like, being depressed/disappointed.

"You remind me of your father... He was as weak as you are."

"Mike... What was that?"

"You know what you are? You're... Aw, dammit! It's right on the tip of my tongue! You're a... An asshole! There it is!"

"Jake called me an asshole today..."

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but it sounds like the word is getting dragged out, but also getting quieter. It's like when a band directer holds a note too damn long and everyone needs to breathe super bad. It just doesn't sound distinct or powerful, so things like this:

“How’s this for ineffective projectiles, jerk…”
Oh no.. It isn’t broken, is it?

Kinda read like this:

“How’s this for ineffective projectiles, jerk.”
Oh no. Kodi sighed. It isn’t broken, is it?

It just doesn't have the emphasis that it needs, and reading it like that sounds a bit odd.

All in all though, great job! It was a close fight from both of you, and ya both kicked ass!

And also:

Then massive props.

*worships* This also actually very helpful. You provide me with an insight I really didn't think about before. My biggest issue tackling this battle was keeping Wyvern from instantaneously curbstomping Kodi (as I mentioned before), and what you tell me "The beast bleeds etc." could actually prove quite useful for my future battles as Wyvern will grow quite largely in strength over the course of the next few stories (foreshadowing).

Dot factories are something I'll have to pay attention to as well, since I tend to do that a lot ^^.

Oh and it's WY-Vern, not Vern :S

Crank
03-09-2015, 10:13 PM
Happy to help!


Oh and it's WY-Vern, not Vern :S
Heh, yup! Did it on accident, suddenly realized I did, meant to fix it but then randomly forgot! My brain cannot handle full names