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Jeff
03-26-2015, 05:32 PM
This thread is to serve as a common ground where we can discuss site-related stuff. We don't exactly have a convenient way to create public dialogue about the site and it's community, so hopefully this fills that need. Got a problem? Have a suggestion? Let's talk about it.

You may also send myself or any of the mods a private message if you need help or want to discuss things in private. If you have an issue with another user you may post about it here or if you're uncomfortable with that you can still send us PMs. Use this list (http://forums.stickpage.com/showgroups.php) to see who can help you.

Want to discuss RHG? Use this thread! (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92718-RHG-Community-Suggestions&p=1335793#post1335793)

Drone
03-26-2015, 05:35 PM
wow, what a coincidence, http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92718-RHG-Community-Suggestions&p=1335793#post1335793

Jeff
03-26-2015, 05:37 PM
fuck you this means war

actually you should link here and I'll link to yours to keep things from being confusing

Drone
03-26-2015, 05:41 PM
fuck you this means war

actually you should link here and I'll link to yours to keep things from being confusing
Done and done

Hewitt
03-26-2015, 07:35 PM
I guess I'll just go and fire the first shot before it gets buried: Where is the SP Portal?

Jeff
03-27-2015, 08:44 PM
If you're asking where the current version actually is, it's: http://www.stickpage.com/portal but I wouldn't bother with it at this point. If you're asking if we're building a new one, then we currently have no plans for it but it's something that is slated to be worked on in the near future. When I officially begin development after we plan it out I will make an announcement.

Devour
03-30-2015, 01:47 AM
Alrighty. Here's a thing that's been bothering me for literal years:

Ever noticed how if you switch your text to Bold/Italics etc. or change the font size, the next time to move the "|" typing marker around or backspace, it brings it alllllllllllll the way back to the spot you first pressed Ctrl+B or whatever? This has been the bane of my existence in making big posts for forum games. Is there a way to keep that from happening?

I probably explained this badly. It's pretty easy to see what I'm talking about for yourself though if you try changing up your text in the post box.

Hewitt
03-30-2015, 01:49 AM
What are you talking about. My thing just stays within the tag from which I tagged it in.

ErrorBlender
03-30-2015, 01:51 AM
Same here. The cursor goes before the first letter of the highlighted text, with the text still highlighted within the bold/italic tag.

Hewitt
03-30-2015, 01:53 AM
Can you guys display a step by step procedure on how to achieve this? I'd really like to simulate it.

Devour
03-30-2015, 02:02 AM
Hmm. I'll post a few screenshots to explain what I mean a bit better. This is on Chrome btw:

http://i.imgur.com/Dv5AZ4m.png

Then I italicize part of my post:

http://i.imgur.com/aiAGy7M.png

http://i.imgur.com/t71yTkH.png


http://i.imgur.com/3y2ua5w.png

The text cursor moves back to the end of what I italicized, backspacing the words there instead. This is a pretty small inconvenience, but in a post that uses lots of spread-out bold text or italics or size changes, it's a hassle that's been there for years. It would be pretty sweet if this turned out to be an easy fix.

poppetje3D
03-30-2015, 03:55 AM
You know what would be fun. If we could make posts funnies and all these other options. Just like on facepunch or whatever its called.

Hewitt
03-30-2015, 06:52 AM
Mo' Italics Mo' Problems

This has never happened to me. I just tried it right now. Been using Firefox for ages. Maybe the browser is the problem

Smile
03-30-2015, 07:01 AM
Idk Devour that kind of doesn't happen with mine :/ I tried typing, highlighting, and pressing ctrl + I, and what you described didn't happen. I tried pressing ctrl + I first, then typing, and it still didn't happen. I'm using chrome too.

Exile
03-30-2015, 07:23 AM
You guys need to specify what kind of text interface you're using. There's basic, standard and enhanced, you can find which one you're using under "General Settings" in your profile settings.

I used enhanced for a while and I had the same problem Devour is having, but it doesn't happen with the other two.

Jeff
04-02-2015, 10:21 AM
Please only use this thread for serious discussion related to the site, thanks. To be honest I don't think minor annoyances with software I am not familiar with will be addressed unless it's a very easy fix. It would take more time than it's worth to figure out how vBulletin works in regards to that specific editor.

Devour
04-03-2015, 07:18 AM
Neat, I've noticed that I can delete my posts on the mobile version. Can others do this as well?

_Ai_
04-03-2015, 07:47 AM
You're a mod devour. You can delete your own posts.

Devour
04-03-2015, 08:32 AM
You're a mod devour. You can delete your own posts.
Oh. I knew that. Right....




;_;

Smile
04-05-2015, 04:40 AM
Is the website (like, outside the forums) ever going to have a make over? It kind of feels like it's obsolete in terms of design tbh. And I feel like it doesn't highlight enough of what's currently going on at Stickpage. The Stick Empires button is like just something below the new animations, and it's not highlighted that the new animations are part of the currently running Stickpage competition.

There are two buttons for "Stick Fights", "Stick Games", "Stick Humor", and "Stick Forum" and they're very close to each other. "Stick Search" leads to a weird page that seems like it was started but was forgotten (the page is labeled "Stick Games"). There's a "Loading" thing but idk if it's just because of my internet that runs on hamster but nothing seems to finish loading.

The news about stickpage is like, on the very bottom of the page and doesn't seem like it's actually important. Stone's avatar isn't even in there.

And there's that message thing that pops up when you hover on the tab that says "Stick Page - Best Online Stickfigure Movies and Stick Games, with flash games, movies, all free Xiao Xiao style." I have some issues with this:

1. It's redundant
2. I think StickPage should really have some kind of slogan that isn't just "we're the best". I don't really have any suggestions at the moment, but I think it's something to at least think about.
3. It's 2015; are we really STILL giving Xiao Xiao the spotlight after about 15 or so years?
4. Is it "Stickpage", "StickPage", or "Stick Page"? I don't know if this is a big deal but it kind of irks me that I've been using "Stickpage" all this time while the logo says "StickPage" but the message thingy in the tab says "Stick Page". It'd be nice to have a little consistency.


It's just that Stickpage doesn't seem to present itself like a serious website but rather it looks like something run by a high school student that has a good handle at making websites. I'm not saying it should have a separate marketing division or anything like that, but it just seems kind of like it's a non-serious website. We have plenty of artists in Stickpage who I bet can help out in layouting it and just add some flair to it.

Zero
04-07-2015, 02:13 AM
I've been seeing spam threads that doesn't have any content in it. I can't even find the report button.

An example would be:
http://i62.tinypic.com/29g1i5j.jpg
Source: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?93157-After-weeks-of-dramatic-testimony

Devour
04-07-2015, 02:15 AM
I've been noticing that too.

Also, this is a bug in the "show more" for signatures. The problem happens when viewing and replying to PMs:

http://i.imgur.com/O8rI7H9.png

Hewitt
04-07-2015, 03:42 AM
If you're asking where the current version actually is, it's: http://www.stickpage.com/portal but I wouldn't bother with it at this point. If you're asking if we're building a new one, then we currently have no plans for it but it's something that is slated to be worked on in the near future. When I officially begin development after we plan it out I will make an announcement.

Cool, thanks for answering.

By the by, would it be okay if we were at least privy to what's going to happen or what's to come to SP as a whole? Like, what's the focus right now aside from the competitions and the new anims coming from those competitions. What's the longterm plan?

Hewitt
04-12-2015, 08:04 PM
Hey Jeff I just noticed something: Whenever you click on a link on this forum, the bottom bar loads "Waiting for forums.stickpage.com" but then it also loads "Waiting for data from www.viralvideos.com" for like a mere split-second. It's easy to miss but it's there, and it works for every single thread/section link in this place. What's up with that? Is that part of the site you once asked us to beta test? And why is it collecting data from this forum?

Unbounded
04-12-2015, 10:40 PM
Website related:

On the main page, I honestly didn't even know until about five minutes ago after being here for a few months that there was a "news" section on the main page, and as a result before I even joined SP I assumed it was really low on activity. Maybe the "news" section can be bumped up to the top of the page in such a way that more attention is drawn towards the current news/goings-on of SP?

The "stick search" has the same problem. It has a section devoted to it but it's at the bottom of the page. Again, if I was a newcomer to the site I would assume the search function was a WIP or didn't work/was abandoned. Just throw it at the top if ya can!

Also two questions:

1: Any plans in the future to encourage more newcomers to the site/promote activity?

2: Kinda in a similar vein, but any way to change up the site a tad so that the most recent active threads from a few select forums, (Say for example, Official Stickpage competitions, Community projects, and Battlezone), can get highlighted?

Kieran.
04-14-2015, 02:29 AM
2: Kinda in a similar vein, but any way to change up the site a tad so that the most recent active threads from a few select forums, (Say for example, Official Stickpage competitions, Community projects, and Battlezone), can get highlighted?

Isn't that almost the same thing as the "what's new" tab?

Unbounded
04-14-2015, 06:47 AM
Isn't that almost the same thing as the "what's new" tab?

Not quite.

It'd be on the main page, rather than being hidden under the forum link, as what's new is. On top of that what I was going for was "it would focus on a few select subforums geared towards sharing content/gathering people to generate content."

Scarecrow
04-14-2015, 10:42 AM
I've been seeing spam threads that doesn't have any content in it. I can't even find the report button.

An example would be:
http://i62.tinypic.com/29g1i5j.jpg
Source: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?93157-After-weeks-of-dramatic-testimony

+1 for this.

While we're on the roc of the "show more" button - I dunno if it's just me, but it doesn't seem to actually show more. Looks like it's revealing the content but the size of the post's boundaries stay the same, so the revealed content gets cut off anyway.

Jeff
04-15-2015, 10:44 AM
Urk I just realized I forgot to reply to any of these lately. Sorry about that, I've been reading them but I'm finishing another project at the moment and get distracted easily. I'm going to set this topic to notify me some how so I don't accidentally neglect your posts.


1: Any plans in the future to encourage more newcomers to the site/promote activity?

We're pretty much always running competitions with actual cash prizes here, so I think there's a pretty strong draw for that. In terms of making the community appealing so people wont sign up just for the competitions and actually want to stay, we're working on a couple of things, both additions to the site and changes behind the scenes that should hopefully stimulate activity around here over the coming months. I don't want to be too specific yet since we're still in the planning stages but you'll know it when you see it and I'll definitely make an official announcement when the time comes.


2: Kinda in a similar vein, but any way to change up the site a tad so that the most recent active threads from a few select forums, (Say for example, Official Stickpage competitions, Community projects, and Battlezone), can get highlighted?

I like this idea as long as it doesn't replace the existing front page. Maybe I would tweak it to be used to promote certain threads within the forums or something, just so people had a better idea of cool things going on that may not otherwise check them out. Cool idea!


While we're on the roc of the "show more" button - I dunno if it's just me, but it doesn't seem to actually show more. Looks like it's revealing the content but the size of the post's boundaries stay the same, so the revealed content gets cut off anyway.

What browser are you using and does it have any extensions like noscript running? I tested it on all major browser before putting it in but it uses some JS and HTML techniques that aren't supported the same way across all browsers so there could be a case where it will fail.


By the by, would it be okay if we were at least privy to what's going to happen or what's to come to SP as a whole? Like, what's the focus right now aside from the competitions and the new anims coming from those competitions. What's the longterm plan?

Oh I'm not trying to hide anything lol, you guys will be updated when we've got a solid plan but right now we're still in those planning stages so there's really nothing to tell you guys since we don't know for sure ourselves yet. We have a few obvious plans that I'm sure none of you would be surprised to hear like we want to build a portal and expand the site, but the specifics of that haven't been set in Stone yet. Don't worry about transparency, I'm a pretty big advocate of that and will let you guys know as much as possible.


I've been seeing spam threads that doesn't have any content in it. I can't even find the report button.

An example would be:
http://i62.tinypic.com/29g1i5j.jpg
Source: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?93157-After-weeks-of-dramatic-testimony

Hm I'm going to look in to this, it might be a bug since those threads I believe should be set to Moderated because they are classified as spam by our anti-spam system. You shouldn't be seeing the topic if the contents are hidden like that in our system. I'll figure it out in any case. Thanks for pointing this out.

Hewitt
04-19-2015, 08:16 PM
Oh I'm sorry if I was implying that you guys are being secretive. I just meant for stuff that's coming out in the future, before they actually come out, which you have also already answered to.

Also, nice pun.

Scarecrow
04-19-2015, 11:13 PM
What browser are you using and does it have any extensions like noscript running? I tested it on all major browser before putting it in but it uses some JS and HTML techniques that aren't supported the same way across all browsers so there could be a case where it will fail.

I'm using pale moon.

these are all my active addons
http://i.imgur.com/oNfi63U.png

i'm also using a modified HOSTS file to block ads, but that probably has nothing to do with it.

[edit]
here's a screenshot of what i see for sigs that are too big. it's not exactly as i remembered/described earlier, but my memory is horrible so that isn't really surprising
http://i.imgur.com/EoAV3F5.png
the show more button isn't appearing at all now

Root
04-25-2015, 06:02 PM
The show more button usually shows for me, but I've noticed that it sometimes doesn't when a post is at the bottom of the page.

Hewitt
04-29-2015, 07:47 PM
Hey Jeff, can we add a section to the rules (at the bottom perhaps) explaining what you can and cannot do if you ever get Infracted/Banned? It just seems like to some newbies, being infracted is the end of the world for them.

I'm not sure if this was in the old rules but in general it's supposed to be an unwritten rule to be able to consult the mods (with a suggested notion that the mod that banned you be the one to talk to unless you really dislike that guy) about it however the newbies that come to this site everyday might not even know for example the proper procedure for:

1) account lock-out or password-forget accounts (As seen here. And this has happened many times (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?93936-oi-Im-here-again))

2) the act of making a 2nd account to strictly discuss banning of the 1st. There have been at least 2 cases I recall recently where a user just went and made a 2nd to evade his day/weekban like it was nothing. We can fault them for ban evasion, but they seem like they genuinely don't know what being banned means and whether or not they can do anything about it.

3) just being infracted in general. Newbies might not be aware that the mod's door is always open and the chance of reversal, however little, as a result of misunderstanding is possible.

Then again. The reason why this rule is unwritten is because the proper infracting procedure used to come with these messages. Like you would say "You can make a 2nd account to discuss your ban" whenever an infract-to-ban action is made. Or a mod should be saying "I will give you a weekban warning for stealing Art." but they don't anymore. I surmise that it's like this because these incidents are rare, so the REAL question is what should need fixing? Should the Mods be aware that they have to "read the users their rights" as they infract/ban them? Or should the Users just know what they are able to do from the getgo?

The goal here is to diffuse the notion that the Mods are evil untouchable bastards who's word is law. I know that's not actually the case over there, but I don't think the rest of the community sees it as such. If we bridge the gap between mods and users, maybe there'll be less aboose incidents on the rise.

Veir
05-02-2015, 08:37 PM
This seemed like the appropriate place to have this discussion so here goes:

Ever since Azure Kite's post in the Picture Thread

Hello, all, Azure Kite here. Now, recently things have been a bit lax, but I'd like to put forth this statement:

The Picture Thread is meant to be for pictures of users IRL, and light discussion relating to these pictures. It is not a second Chat Thread. It is not for pictures like these:



Because nobody's really been enforcing these rules lately, there'll be no repercussions for things yet. However, I ask that we try to follow these principles and keep the thread as it was originally intended. Future violations will be infracted.

Things have been sketchy rule wise ever since said post in the Picture Thread.
I for one completely agree with Azure btw, this isn't a discussion about whether he was right or wrong. I'm more interested in discussing what is and is not allowed in the Picture Thread now.

A discussion about a picture in the Picture Thread should be fine, at least to me. However it was stated by Camila that discussing an older picture in also inappropriate, a picture that at the date of discussion was only 10 days old. This led to a rather arduous conversation between several members and so I think it would be nice to just have a full conversation about what is and isn't allowed there now.

Camila
05-02-2015, 08:43 PM
My take on it is that we should use that thread to discuss pictures that were posted recently. We can't just go back a thousand pages and just talk about all those pictures since they already "had a discussion" about it, everyone just stopped talking about it becayse there was nothing else to add or say. I thin there should be a time limit as well. And I think 10 days is wayyy too much time of what should be allowed.

Devour
05-02-2015, 09:02 PM
let's settle it then. Does everyone think the rules should be:

-Pictures older than a week no longer need to be discussed. If you really want to comment on it, quote the post and post the quote in the Chat Thread.
-A picture you post should either be a picture of you, or a picture you took yourself, or it directly relates to you irl
-If chat about a picture goes on for two pages, quote the last post you're replying to and post the quote in the Chat Thread instead.

Seems fair?

Not_Nish
05-02-2015, 11:49 PM
I was going to paste my post on the Pic Thread here, but fuck it.

I don't think there needs to be a DAYS count. But if it has moved ON to another topic, and another picture, and it has been a week, I think we can safely say it is off-topic.

More than 2 pages = Chat Thread = Nish's vote.

Then again, I'm completely open to it NOT being off-topic either if thats what the mods want. This is just my opinion.

Smile
05-03-2015, 10:40 AM
If the picture is A, and B is relevant to something in A, then B is allowed. If C is relevant to something in B and also relevant to something in A, then C is allowed. If D isn't directly relevant to A, then D shouldn't be allowed. I always thought that was what the rule meant. Like, if the picture was that of a pair of Timberland boots, and someone talks about shoes in general, then that's okay. If someone talks about the brand or how durable the shoes are or whatever, then those would be relevant. But if someone talks about a different shoe because of how someone else was talking about shoes in general, then it's not directly relevant to Timberland boots and it shouldn't be okay. If someone says Italy is in the shape of a shoe, then it wouldn't be okay, because it doesn't directly relate to the Timberland boots themselves. If someone then talked about Italy, then that becomes very very irrelevant.

I don't agree that there should be some kind of trigger where if discussion reaches x number of pages or if the root of the discussion has been x amount of time old then the discussion should be taken elsewhere, because it breaks the flow of the conversation. It can also alienate the ones on The Chat Thread that haven't seen the root of the discussion from The Picture Thread. If the posts are to be restricted so that they should ALWAYS be directly relevant to the picture, then maybe there won't be a need for these set of restrictions. But then again, it's not really that big of a fuss I think, so do whatever you think is necessary.

Jeff
05-04-2015, 11:17 AM
Okay, so officially I have begun work on SP 2015. Still no plans to announce, we're in the brainstorming phase at this point. I don't think I will be officially announcing specific details until we're closer to completion, as I want to remain flexible with development so I can do research in to some things I've never seen done before which may or may not end up in SP. There's no point in announcing features that wont be delivered. I just want everyone to know what's going on so we're on the same page as far as site production goes. It wont be a quick development so hopefully no one forgets and gets mad that we're not doing anything. Just keep in mind that just because you don't see us working doesn't mean we aren't.

In regards to the picture thread: personally I don't care if pictures posted in the picture thread spark discussions, as long as the discussion doesn't derail the thread and the pictures are personal pictures and not just things you find around the internet, since that's the intent of the thread isn't it? The picture thread doesn't have nearly as much discussion in general as the chat thread. It's silly to put hard limits on something that happens organically, at worst after a few pages maybe a mod should step in and say "Could you please take it to the chat thread at this point?"

Then again it seems a bit needless to have two threads for discussion promoted at the top. Maybe it would be better to unstick the picture thread and let it be bumped endlessly if people have pictures and discussion to contribute. Although I don't know if it's worth worrying about at this point since we're gonna likely end up changing quite a bit.

Not_Nish
05-04-2015, 11:21 AM
I don't know if this is a stupid question to ask, can someone elaborate on what SP 2015 entails?

Jeff
05-04-2015, 11:31 AM
I don't know if this is a stupid question to ask, can someone elaborate on what SP 2015 entails?


Still no plans to announce, we're in the brainstorming phase at this point.

I'm not sure what more I could add? If it's not clear we're developing a completely new version of the site, but other than that fact there's nothing else to say.

Not_Nish
05-04-2015, 11:33 AM
we're developing a completely new version of the site

It wasn't clear. Now it is. :)

Good luck.

Jeff
05-04-2015, 04:47 PM
Thanks. My bad I kinda figured it was implied but I guess SP 2015 could mean literally anything as long as it's in this year lmao

Hewitt
05-04-2015, 08:05 PM
Jeff I also made a post before the Picture thing...


So does SP2015's existence imply that its going to have its own forum coded in much like your work for the Dojo? That means we won't have to deal with vBullshit anymore, right?

But that also means every data on this place will be purged or left behind...is that the case?

Salt
05-10-2015, 09:52 AM
I just noticed that there are only 3 pages in the general discussion section. Is that relevant to the update or what?

ErrorBlender
05-10-2015, 09:53 AM
Its always been like that I think. You can change it around in the settings so that it displays more pages.

Hewitt
05-16-2015, 08:16 PM
I just wanna bring awareness here specifically because this place gets more views and some might not have noticed it yet (as of this writing, the thread has a mere 30+ views):

http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?94258-Stick-Art-is-no-longer-relegated-to-a-single-thread

Jeff has reinstated the rule of removing the "all stick art belongs to a single thread" rule. He has also unstickied Scarecrow's rant about "Standards". I personally agree with Jeff's points and his commentary of dictating the standard of art in a forum that defines no-standard-art really hits home hard for us normal thread viewers and most of the critiques.

Be that as it may, while I do agree with the pts discussed, I'm sort of not in agreement with the reinstatement/ruling and frankly fearful about the implications of this. I was with Scarecrow when he made the original Sticky (forum or IRC dont remember), but at the time I do recall him talking about how the Art section used to actually BE about art and little to none about Stickart. Not saying it was outlawed, but generally frowned upon as shoddy work. So I guess it's a cultural thing, but if certain SP Vets would like to bring this pt up as I am not familiar with Pre-Merge culture, that would also be swell

So yeah, just bringing awareness here in case nobody knows yet. Feel free to discuss

Jeff
05-16-2015, 08:56 PM
I don't disagree with the general message. I state this in that post. What I don't like is how it's presented, and because of that I also don't like that it was stickied and promoted as an official opinion. I may say a lot of shit that may be seen as harsh but I don't parade it around as if that's what StickPage as a whole should believe, and if I am going to institute anything official it going to be presented in a much cleaner and friendly manner. There are better ways to deliver that message to the community, the whole "tough love" or "brutally honest" shtick is just a poor excuse for being a rude asshole. I'm not saying anything about Scarecrow's character and I hope I'm not offending him, I would do or say the exact same thing in a one-off rant thread and accept that I was being an asshole but needed to vent. I just don't think it should be stickied because that gives the impression that is how we behave in an official capacity. I would be more than happy for a member or a mod to come up with a more approachable art standards thread.

Also the idea that something is not art because it has stick figures is ridiculous. Art is an expression of creativity and imagination, how people choose to represent that is up to them. It's also up to the community how they want to react. If the community is digging the stick art and you disagree, then maybe you're in the wrong community. When "stick art" is frowned upon on StickPage I question what our identity even is any more.

Drone
05-17-2015, 02:59 AM
I will be remaking the thread in a more professional manner, as I do think the art section should have standards for what counts as art. A line tool stickfigure on a white background with a linetool sword should not have it's own thread, which was the problem scarecrow was trying to adress, albeit in a rather agressive fashion. Even with stick art there should be some kind of set standard, if not for quality, then at least in terms of effort.

Salt
05-17-2015, 03:11 AM
I agree with Jeff. Yet I also agree with Drone's point. It just happens that many of the people who make stick art are pretty bad artists. So far only one was actually putting effort and made it look good.
http://afterlog.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/
Best RHG art I've seen yet.

Jeff
05-17-2015, 09:15 AM
I will be remaking the thread in a more professional manner, as I do think the art section should have standards for what counts as art. A line tool stickfigure on a white background with a linetool sword should not have it's own thread, which was the problem scarecrow was trying to adress, albeit in a rather agressive fashion. Even with stick art there should be some kind of set standard, if not for quality, then at least in terms of effort.

No, that is not happening. You are not going to be telling people they can't post something. That section is free for anyone to post any art they want, the feedback and posting habits of the visitors will determine what happens to it. You can remake the thread as a guideline of sorts but there will be no rules implemented preventing people from sharing their art good or bad. We cannot pretend to be an open and welcoming community while telling budding artists that their works is awful and shouldn't be posted. This is a community that's intended for amateurs, not professionals. No one is learning or getting better if they can't even share their work because some art snob is telling them it isn't worthy.

I'm all for a more professional thread though, just as long as it's not assigning values to how people choose to express their art.

Drone
05-17-2015, 02:51 PM
So it's fine for someone to make something with literally 0 effort and post it just for the sake of posting it? There's a difference between being an artist who hasnt quite grasped the concepts and being someone who doesn't put any effort into their art at all. We used to have people in thr ary section posting things that were basically akin to this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/StickFigurePortrait.jpg
Assumedly just because they were allowed to. I'm not talking about something that's bad because of a lack of experience, I just don't want to compromise the integrity of the art section by allowing any kid with flash and 2 minutes of free time to clutter up the section with their lazy work.

Damian
05-17-2015, 07:53 PM
Since this seems like a better place to ask than the other threads, what's up with Azure locking up the Chat Thread?

Azure
05-17-2015, 07:55 PM
I legitimately have no idea how that has been happening, as I'm not actively closing it. :/ I'm just as confused as you guys, honestly.

Damian
05-17-2015, 07:57 PM
You do have the power to unlock it, right?

EDIT: And now I feel stupid.

Drone
05-17-2015, 08:21 PM
Are you accidentally clicking close thread with post?

Azure
05-17-2015, 08:45 PM
Are you accidentally clicking close thread with post?

I don't click near that button when posting, since I always have my sig up. My guess is that it's some form of bug when I post with my iPod on a somewhat faulty internet connection.

Jeff
05-17-2015, 09:52 PM
So it's fine for someone to make something with literally 0 effort and post it just for the sake of posting it? There's a difference between being an artist who hasnt quite grasped the concepts and being someone who doesn't put any effort into their art at all. We used to have people in thr ary section posting things that were basically akin to this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/StickFigurePortrait.jpg
Assumedly just because they were allowed to. I'm not talking about something that's bad because of a lack of experience, I just don't want to compromise the integrity of the art section by allowing any kid with flash and 2 minutes of free time to clutter up the section with their lazy work.

I would much rather have an open platform with an equal playing field than essentially permit one person to be judge, jury and executioner in regards to what is and isn't considered "low effort". How exactly do you intend to classify and manage that which you consider low effort? What system do you have in place to ensure fair treatment? What message you plan to deliver to those who you think aren't putting in enough effort? You're not a mind reader, how can you tell when someone put 0 effort into something and they're not just a beginner looking for help and don't know where to start? Keep in mind the type of person StickPage caters to, can you guarantee the difference? The entire problem in the first place is that you're conflating "stick art" and "low effort" and being entirely overzealous when taking action against it. I understand the intended purpose is to encourage people to work harder but it had entirely the opposite effect and seemed to make quite a few members feel belittled because they prefer to work with what they're comfortable with. You nearly merged a 2-year-old consistently updated web comic into the stick art thread because you decided that it fit the literal definition of 'stick art' and placed it on the same level as what you just described. How can I have any faith that your verdicts are fair and impartial?

The worst thing that's going to happen on an open platform is maybe sometimes you'll accidentally offend your eyes by happening across something you consider low effort, but let's be honest here "cluttering up" the art section is an over exaggeration and even if that were to happen there are better and simpler ways to curb "clutter" than telling someone their artwork is worthless and not to post it. All you would need to do is institute a policy of updating a single thread instead of making multiple threads. The problem I have is that you're essentially asking to be one of the only two people who will be judging every piece of artwork flowing through there and personally deciding if it's worthy, and that's not something I would want or trust on any website. Do you think Tom Fulp goes through NG's art portal and removes things he doesn't think have enough effort in them? No, he lets the community decide what happens because a community should decide what it likes for itself, and not be told by the mods what they should like. Low effort content should be driven down by the community if it truly agrees, all anyone has to do is never open a thread again and if others agree with you they'll do the same and the thread will die. If it gets attention then the majority disagrees with you and the content stays active for as long as it's relevant. There are potential drawbacks to being an open platform but being an open platform is a lot better suited for StickPage because of who our demographic is, and it's a much fairer system than given that kind of authority to two people.

Drone
05-17-2015, 10:11 PM
But that just kinda sounds like the same thing, just with a more public and degrading outcome. It would be basically instead of me respectfully telling someone that this is an open forum, bet we have some standards in terms of the amount of effort you should probably be putting in to the work that you post here, we just let everyone rip them apart as they please and they'll learn better that way. Also, I don't think you understand where I was coming from with the stickart thing, I didn't want to get rid of something that was instated before I became a mod, and the general thing was that stick art goes in the stick art thread, the same way unfinished battles don't go in the battles section, but rather community animations, and how a forum game belongs in general and not the help section, in my mind it was the way the system worked, and I didn't honestly have enough of a problem with it to bring it up because I remember the days when the art section was so bad that it warranted it and scarecrows thread to begin with. In general, now that you've repealed the policy, I'm not saying that stick art should still not be allowed at all, I just want there to be some kind of integrity to the section. By the way, I recall you saying yourself that stickpage is not a democracy, and besides that point, I'm not the only one that mods the art section, acute is there as well, it isn't like I'd be making decisions completely on my own, there would be instances where I make the wrong call, it happens, and she (and probably the rest of the mods and you) would give their input on it, we'd fix it and move on. My verdicts are not going to be 100% fair and impartial, but you can't expect that from anyone, not even yourself.

Either way, you're the boss, what you say goes, I was just explaining what I thought, if you don't want me to make the thread I won't make it, it's not a big deal and I'm not going to argue to the death over it, I just said what I felt like saying. I don't know it you remember the threads with three pages full of "this is shit" "why would you even post this, did this take you 3 minutes," but I do and that's where I'm coming from.

Also, and I'm not using this as an excuse or anything, but I have only been a mod for like maybe a month and a half? I'm still fairly new at this, so I'm not going to do everything flawlessly, even though I'll try to. It's great that you hold me to the same standard as the rest that have been around longer than I have, but cut me some slack.

Hewitt
05-18-2015, 12:42 AM
All you would need to do is institute a policy of updating a single thread instead of making multiple threads.

I've been pitching this idea for ages. Back then, sometimes I would just merge stuff together if it was consistently being made by the same user within a short period of time. I think this is the proper step that should be taken all across the community section (which would include Lit, Music, and the Anim threads). Drone, please consider this categorization by Author instead of being an authority to what is content and what isn't.


The problem I have is that you're essentially asking to be one of the only two people who will be judging every piece of artwork flowing through there and personally deciding if it's worthy, and that's not something I would want or trust on any website.

Huh? Who's the 2nd guy? Does someone else think like Drone or is this also Scarecrow?




But that (Open System) just kinda sounds like the same thing, just with a more public and degrading outcome. It would be basically instead of me respectfully telling someone that this is an open forum, bet we have some standards in terms of the amount of effort you should probably be putting in to the work that you post here, we just let everyone rip them apart as they please and they'll learn better that way.

Jesus Drone. Carriage Return is your friend.

Anyways, I don't think you understand how an Open System works. You're speaking from a perspective in which you've never known how an Open System is suppose to be your whole life.

Let me ask you something: How do you think has SP moderated its own content in the pre-merge era? There was no Scarecrow rant or specific "Crappy Stick Thread" stickied on the Section. So how did Scarecrow even come to his own conclusion through his experiences? Answer: He HAD to start from 0 as well. Go to the Trash Bin/Archives and look at Scarecrow's old JAWZ days. Read in on when old vet users from back then made their own anim threads. Nobody cared because the Community was equal and had a Standard of 0. Flash-forward to a little bit onwards where latent oldbies like Arch-Angel (then known as theblindsamurai) started putting up crap work. Now they're getting criticized by the even-older-oldbies. Why. Because the then-0 standard Scarecrow had levelled up a bit and now understands the essence of quality content. Look at Arch now. Look at when he criticizes harshly as a BSE judge. He and Scarecrow are a product of an Open System that had allowed crappy stuff to exist because he himself had been through it.

It just so happens that the Purge/Merge wiped out Pre-Merge's population by 90%. That's why we're getting frazzled coldbies like Scarecrow or elitist insta-awesome animators from FA who see the forum with rose-colored glasses. They only wish to see the pre-purge/pre-merge quality that cannot exist right now because this forum's quality and userbase has gone back to the stone ages. So stifling that with an instantly elitist outlook is not only stupid and pointless, but you are also purposely holding things back.

This same logic applies to that time when we argued about the quality of Chat Thread posts. I always told you that it is up to the users to build a culture of community so that when newbies come to the Chat Thread, they don't have to get the mentality of "I must be edgy to be famous" and end up being a douche. I'm too lazy to bring that old post back but correct me if I'm wrong: you said something along the lines of "If they can't inherently learn on their own how the Chat Thread works, then they just don't belong." so your best answer is apathy and just lurking or egging on whenever a mike-incident happens. This is why there can't ever be rules on the Chat Thread stating that "you can't be a retard". In the same way that we do not have the authority to dictate what is "being a retard" in the Chat Thread and instead have to respect each other on our own via the golden rule so that newbs can inherently learn how to act, do we not have the authority to dictate "what is quality" in any Art Thread and the artists and animators of the community will have to dictate its own quality by helping out noobs that suck and pointing them in the right direction.




I remember the days when the art section was so bad that it warranted it and scarecrows thread to begin with. In general, now that you've repealed the policy, I'm not saying that stick art should still not be allowed at all, I just want there to be some kind of integrity to the section.

Integrity is not built in a single day. Integrity is not something to be declared and enforced to exclude anyone who cannot follow it.

Integrity is cultivated. Grown. It is bred through culture and how the community grows and matures. You and I agree on this part: We had people who actually cared, who could help Newbies know what is a good standard and what isn't....but those people are no longer here. They've fled to the Dojo or moved on. They have had no sense 'giving back' because the Merge felt like an act of betrayal towards their old home. And all we have left are the Already-Awesomes and Know-Nothing-Noobs who can't seem to get along and interact. Everything SP needs to grow again is right here. And restricting quality will do nothing but make the lines glaringly more and more obvious.

Jeff describes it himself:
...because a community should decide what it likes for itself, and not be told by the mods what they should like. Low effort content should be driven down by the community if it truly agrees, all anyone has to do is never open a thread again and if others agree with you they'll do the same and the thread will die. If it gets attention then the majority disagrees with you and the content stays active for as long as it's relevant.

Scarecrow did have his points, but he also has to realize that those days in which his standards were high no longer exist. Maybe he's just exasperated and tired and thus will not grow again with this community. But you and the new generation of post-merge artists are still here. You don't need to be told that there was once a glory age where Standards are high. That's not your history. Your history is here and now.




By the way, I recall you saying yourself that stickpage is not a democracy, and besides that point, I'm not the only one that mods the art section, acute is there as well, it isn't like I'd be making decisions completely on my own, there would be instances where I make the wrong call, it happens, and she (and probably the rest of the mods and you) would give their input on it, we'd fix it and move on. My verdicts are not going to be 100% fair and impartial, but you can't expect that from anyone, not even yourself.

Either way, you're the boss, what you say goes, I was just explaining what I thought, if you don't want me to make the thread I won't make it, it's not a big deal and I'm not going to argue to the death over it, I just said what I felt like saying. I don't know it you remember the threads with three pages full of "this is shit" "why would you even post this, did this take you 3 minutes," but I do and that's where I'm coming from.

Also, and I'm not using this as an excuse or anything, but I have only been a mod for like maybe a month and a half? I'm still fairly new at this, so I'm not going to do everything flawlessly, even though I'll try to. It's great that you hold me to the same standard as the rest that have been around longer than I have, but cut me some slack.

^This is none of my business, but did you even bring this up to Jeff before you decided to make it? Like I had said before for the RHG Demo rules and any policy or rule-change that you ought to do; it should be run by everyone else first. Jeff isn't questioning your ability to make decisions on your own or your aptitude for what is right. He just wants someone he can depend on and that includes being privy to everything you do. It comes with having to be a mod.

mizu
05-18-2015, 12:49 AM
wasn't the reason a General Stick Art thread was made was because the community thought it was shit and should be contained to one thread untill jeff decided recently, out of the blue, he didn't like that, or am remembering this wrong?

but hey at least we're not as bad as /ic/ right.

Azure
05-18-2015, 12:50 AM
I haven't read your entire post, Hew, and I likely will later when I have a better mental state. I simply wanted to point out that the two people Jeff referred to are Drone and Acutie, as they're the sectional mods.

Hewitt
05-18-2015, 12:53 AM
Oh okay. Well that's even more silly. I doubt Acute would consent to define what Quality is even if she could do Art/Anim well.

Drone
05-18-2015, 12:58 AM
It's whatever, I don't feel strongly enough about this to respond to everything you've said Hewitt, there will just be no standard. If that's the way people want it to be, I'm not going to go on and on about my own ideals.

Scarecrow
05-18-2015, 01:05 AM
Go to the Trash Bin/Archives and look at Scarecrow's old JAWZ days

http://i.imgur.com/gkO2yCp.png

please don't do that

Not_Nish
05-18-2015, 01:14 AM
It's whatever, I don't feel strongly enough about this to respond to everything you've said Hewitt, there will just be no standard. If that's the way people want it to be, I'm not going to go on and on about my own ideals.

You're taking this personally instead of convincing them of the safeguards and structures that you would put in place to ensure that what they said won't happen.

Hewitt
05-18-2015, 01:25 AM
It's whatever, I don't feel strongly enough about this to respond to everything you've said Hewitt, there will just be no standard. If that's the way people want it to be, I'm not going to go on and on about my own ideals.

That's why we're having a discussion about it. You, me, Jeff, Scarecrow if he wants, and the rest of the inhabitants of the Art section and the forums. This is not what the people want, Drone. We're just discussing what can be and why it has to happen. And I for one would like arguments against it.

Like what Nish said, don't get butthurt about your actions going to shit. It doesn't make Jeff or anyone feel any less about you


please don't do that

Like, do you even agree with Jeff or Drone or me or whatever you don't care unless Gabe Newell slips on a banana peel or something

Scarecrow
05-18-2015, 02:23 AM
well, i'm not fussed about my post being unstickied (frankly i'm surprised it stayed there that long with that kind of tone), i still think it's important to prevent the art section from being swamped in zero-effort kid-with-a-crayon "art". i hate censorship and i don't want to tell people what they can and can't post, but the fact is that much of the userbase here is young and inexperienced and may genuinely be unable to understand the difference in value between their 5 minute MS paint stick figure and a piece of work that took a graphic artist a week to complete because they've been told that everything they make is amazing and should be stuck on the fridge for the rest of the year.

i don't think cluttering up the art section is an exaggeration at all. the reason i made that thread to start with was because of how cluttered it was getting. i don't usually post there, but if i usually take a look if a new thread in the art section pops up in the "view new posts" search. when 90% of those threads were 5 minute line tool stick figures, my interest in bothering to do this waned significantly. i can't imagine i'm the only person who felt this way at that time. however, rather than giving up on the section i made a thread about it, and the section has improved again since then.

my point is that if the art section swamped with garbage threads that aren't worth clicking on - that is to say, if the average quality of threads in the art section deteriorates because of shit like stick figure art - people stop bothering to click on any threads in the section to start with, and this isn't really fair for the people who actually DO post quality work. more and more dirt fills the section, and the gems get lost in the dirt. eventually people simply give up looking for gems.

i know it's difficult to quantify what is and isn't worthy of being called "art". these days i don't think a subjective decision from a moderator or two is an appropriate method to decide what does and doesn't belong in a section, because they are people who are subject to moods and bias. if a line is to be drawn, it needs to be a clear line drawn somewhere that defines what is and isn't acceptable, so there can be no hurt feelings and no room for arbitrary debate. considering that 90% of the worthless posts were stick figures, the stick figure containment thread was a good solution. however i do know that there is some stick art out there which is genuinely impressive, so it does have its limitations.

maybe a different type of containment thread would be more appropriate. a beginner's thread has worked in other sections in the past, perhaps something like that might be worth a try? the line here is less obvious, but jeff is pushing for a more community-based approach, so in this way users can decide for themselves to post there, or take on advice from others to contain themselves there until they improve. this mitigates the probability of dogpiling and flaming, and also hopefully minimizes the number of poor quality threads causing people to lose interest in the section.

Jeff
05-18-2015, 12:47 PM
Okay I feel like there is some confusion and conclusion jumping going on here so I'm going to try to sort it out. This is a long fucking post and I'm going on vacation for two weeks after today so I have to get this all out. I will try to respond to any comments made about this before I leave but if not we'll have to resume this subject when I get back.

I am not making that section into a wild west cliche of lawlessness. Like any other section everything that goes on is and should be treated on a per-case basis. The idea that by removing the mod's ability to delete content they deem "0 effort" I am essentially dooming the section to be over run with shitty content is ridiculous and an overreaction. It's fine to be concerned about it, but don't pretend that this will be the case by default. Like anything I do, I do it out of a desire to direct SP to where the leadership wants it to go. Believe it or not but SP has a demographic and people seem to forget that as they grow out of the demographic and expect the site to change with them. This site is geared specifically towards 13-18 year old amateur artists and animators. Please keep this in mind, because you need to remember what it was like to start out at 13 (or younger). The kind of standards of quality that I've witnessed you guys expecting are not realistic for our demographic. If you are at the point where the community of this site is no longer providing worthwhile feedback, then it's time to take your art to a more serious platform where they wont run in to beginners. This isn't a problem with the art section.

At the same time, I also understand that not every decision we make works out as intended, and I have never held the policy that every decision I make is permanent. I make this decision based on a number of factors so I'm not doing it arbitrarily or blindly, but if it doesn't work out the way I expect it too then I will try something else or alter things to suit the environment. I'm questioning whether or not anyone actually believes this will happen, because upon re-reading some of the posts I may have misinterpreted the intention behind it, but I still want to say this because it's important that everyone realizes it.

While Hewitt perfectly summed up much of what I want to say, I need to address some things from Drone's post:


Also, I don't think you understand where I was coming from with the stickart thing, I didn't want to get rid of something that was instated before I became a mod, and the general thing was that stick art goes in the stick art thread, the same way unfinished battles don't go in the battles section, but rather community animations, and how a forum game belongs in general and not the help section, in my mind it was the way the system worked, and I didn't honestly have enough of a problem with it to bring it up because I remember the days when the art section was so bad that it warranted it and scarecrows thread to begin with. In general, now that you've repealed the policy, I'm not saying that stick art should still not be allowed at all

That's fine, there are two issues being discussed and we may not be on the same page in regards to what we're specifically talking about. I should probably remember to specifically state what it is I'm responding to or talking about in the future. Since my posts have mainly been centered around the fact that I don't want stick art to be relegated to one thread and treated as second class on a website that targets stick figures, I took what you are saying as being against that decision in general. So I'm confused, because you keep bringing up stick art in your examples of low effort content. If you don't have a problem with me removing that thread then that's good, I can set aside that issue and we can in turn talk about low quality art specifically regardless of what kind of art it is.


By the way, I recall you saying yourself that stickpage is not a democracy, and besides that point, I'm not the only one that mods the art section, acute is there as well, it isn't like I'd be making decisions completely on my own, there would be instances where I make the wrong call, it happens, and she (and probably the rest of the mods and you) would give their input on it, we'd fix it and move on. My verdicts are not going to be 100% fair and impartial, but you can't expect that from anyone, not even yourself.

I'm not sure what relevance our leadership hierarchy has on this argument? I said, "StickPage is not a PURE democracy." This is in the same way that the USA isn't a pure democracy. Since even though we have a leader who has final say on everything (CJ), I still utilize the democratic process for many issues because I value it and the opinions of those who wish to contribute. I don't like bringing it up because people always misconstrue it to claim I am being literally hitler, but it was necessary when I did because you and a few other mods seemed to have forgotten that we do have a hierarchy and you can't just take votes on decisions made by those higher up on the chain in order to over turn them. It has absolutely no bearing on how public-facing aspects of the site are run.

A website of this size has a lot of moving parts and each operates differently. There's no one-size-fits-all solution for managing a community and building features. Just because the leadership isn't a true democracy doesn't mean we have to control every aspect of the website personally. As I've stated previously, StickPage has a purpose and a demographic we cater to. This site exists because CJ found a niche he could provide a service for. The site continues because that niche still exists, but it's dying because for a number of reasons we've lost focus of that niche, and so they went elsewhere. A lot of the people that remain are people who aren't in the demographic any more and are still demanding we cater to them instead, but that's not how this works. StickPage is still supposed to be catering towards that amateur demographic, and now that I'm finally developing a modern version of SP we are trying to take the site back to it's roots.

"But you just said you want to let the community decide!" I hear you shouting. Yes, I did, but this is also the problem I'm referencing when I say that there's give and take, that there's no one-size-fits-all solution, and that the site has many different aspects. Let me see if I can clearly state this: we build the site we want to cater to the demographic we want. We build features for that demographic, such as this forum or the portal I'm working on. We decide how these features function and what kind of policies we have within them based on how we think the community we want will like them. These are tools for the community, nothing more. After we've built the tools the community takes it from there and decides what about them they like. The only thing we do after that point is reasonably guide the community to keep the community happy and coming back. If the community is happy and enjoys stick figure art, we don't mess with that even if a minority don't like it because the majority of the community has decided that's what they want and it's reasonably in our demographic. Now, if the community is unhappy then we change the tools, but the demographic stays the same. If they're unhappy because they don't like Stick Figures any more then they aren't our demographic and should move on to another site that targets their demographic. If the community dies out because the demographic doesn't exist any more, that's when we would shut down the site and try something else, but the site itself targets the same demographic unless there's a compelling reason to change it, but then again if we change "StickPage" away from sticks then it becomes a whole new site anyway. I hope that makes sense.

In general, the reason I am preferring an open platform over a curated one is because historically that's what has made this community worth while. The open platform allowed people to discover their own fun and creativity without mods standing around telling them how to have fun or what they can post. I don't have any physical data to support this, it's pretty much all in the heads of Stone, CJ and myself based on our combined experience and desire to help a specific demographic. The three of us have been in agreement over the demographic and direction of the site for a long time, but only recently have I had the resources and time necessary to build it. Out of interest I ran some analysis on the art section and I found the results show an interesting correlation. I realize this isn't very scientific and I also understand that correlation is not causation, but I find this interesting nonetheless. I took every post from 2013 and ran a sentiment analysis (based on this paper (http://www.cs.uic.edu/~liub/FBS/sentiment-analysis.html)) on every comment on the post to determine if the comment was negative or positive. Then I did the same thing for 2014. Here are the results:


####### Finished 2013 Analysis. Results:
# Total Threads: 640
# Total Comments: 5936
# Total Positive: 3534
# Total Negative: 2402
#######


####### Finished 2014 Analysis. Results:
# Total Threads: 298
# Total Comments: 2273
# Total Positive: 1344
# Total Negative: 929
#######

Keeping in mind that Scarecrow's art section rant went up March 2013. The stick art thread went up May 2014. From 2013 to 2014 there was a 53% drop in the total posts made to the section. Comments dropped by 61%. The difference in ratio between positive and negative comments was negligible. This data could possibly indicate that the only effect those changes to the section had were to reduce overall activity. Again I know that there are other factors that could be involved but this at least shows that the art section is already slowing down. People aren't posting their work and others aren't commenting on it. You could argue quality over quantity but as a webmaster the quantity matters to me. There's a fine balance between lots of visitors for shitty content (aka Buzzfeed or 9gag) and good content with less visitors. We want the site to do well so it keeps running while still maintaining integrity, but when things are this drastic we have to really look at what we're doing. I had no idea that the policy of relegating stick art to a thread existed, and that's on me. Once I found out the choice was obvious to me.

This being said, I still don't disagree with having art standards. I am not saying there shouldn't be any encouraged in that section, but my issue is that you seem to want to physically limit it by removing it yourself. I don't have a problem with you making an official thread that touches on these subjects, but I will not consent to a policy that gives absolute rights to you to deem content unworthy of being posted. It's nothing personal, and nothing to do with your abilities or decision making skills. It's not something I would trust to anyone including myself. I learned this from Dojo, which is a community that was built with a curated portal in mind, but the curated aspect of it was not only difficult to manage it also pissed a lot of people off when content was removed for fitting the literal guidelines of what we consider "low quality" (less than 15 seconds is one of those) but wasn't actually bad content. This resulted in a stalled start for the site because no one wanted to come to a site with no content and no one wanted to post their content because there were no visitors.


if you don't want me to make the thread I won't make it

I do want you to make it, don't get me wrong. I am just adamant that if you make it, you make it in a way that doesn't imply punishment if the content of the thread isn't followed. I have no problem with anyone criticizing people who post actual low effort content or shitty comments. I agree that they should be discouraged but I don't think they should be outright prevented to begin with, and that's the impression I am getting from your argument.


Also, and I'm not using this as an excuse or anything, but I have only been a mod for like maybe a month and a half? I'm still fairly new at this, so I'm not going to do everything flawlessly, even though I'll try to. It's great that you hold me to the same standard as the rest that have been around longer than I have, but cut me some slack.

I think Nish may be right, I didn't mean to steer this in a way that would make you take it personally. I'm actually really sorry if you feel like I have been too harsh on you or something, I know you're relatively new to being a mod here and that's fine. I always keep that in mind. I don't harbour resentment or ill will towards you or anything like that. I respect your opinion and passion. You wouldn't be a mod if you were doing anything that bad :P


wasn't the reason a General Stick Art thread was made was because the community thought it was shit and should be contained to one thread untill jeff decided recently, out of the blue, he didn't like that, or am remembering this wrong?

but hey at least we're not as bad as /ic/ right.

That's a baseless claim. If by "the community" you mean a vocal minority had an aneurysm like they normally do when they can't handle kids being kids and some mod listened to them. I don't understand how anyone can argue that it makes sense to limit stick art on a website about stick figures. Also as I said I had no idea that policy existed until it was pointed out to me, I would have blocked that decision if anyone had run it by me first. I wouldn't say it's out of the blue so much as playing catch up. I will accept any criticism for not catching it sooner, but dealing with here and now it's the least I can do to correct it.


i don't think cluttering up the art section is an exaggeration at all. the reason i made that thread to start with was because of how cluttered it was getting. i don't usually post there, but if i usually take a look if a new thread in the art section pops up in the "view new posts" search. when 90% of those threads were 5 minute line tool stick figures, my interest in bothering to do this waned significantly. i can't imagine i'm the only person who felt this way at that time. however, rather than giving up on the section i made a thread about it, and the section has improved again since then.

I called it an exaggeration partly because of my point that you guys are imposing your subjective views onto the community. I would actually like to see examples of what you regarded as clutter so I can see the actual content of it myself rather than rely on your interpretation that 90% were 5 minute line tool stick figures, or that that content is low effort just by virtue of being stick figures. The examples you posted in your rant thread are far from what I would consider low effort for this community. So I find these arguments you're making unreliable because I can't help but picture you opening several amateur threads and then popping a rage boner because none of it meets your standards which don't line up with the demographic. Again keep in mind that I agree with much of the message you were getting at, I definitely think comments like "this is good! :D" are worthless to an artist that is serious about getting better. I just disagree with what you seem to qualify as "kid with a crayon".


if a line is to be drawn, it needs to be a clear line drawn somewhere that defines what is and isn't acceptable, so there can be no hurt feelings and no room for arbitrary debate.

This cannot and will never happen. See my point above in regards to the Dojo system. It's literally impossible to create guidelines for art because art is subjective by default. There are too many variables to consider and it would never be a truly fair system.


maybe a different type of containment thread would be more appropriate. a beginner's thread has worked in other sections in the past, perhaps something like that might be worth a try? the line here is less obvious, but jeff is pushing for a more community-based approach, so in this way users can decide for themselves to post there, or take on advice from others to contain themselves there until they improve. this mitigates the probability of dogpiling and flaming, and also hopefully minimizes the number of poor quality threads causing people to lose interest in the section.

Yes, thank you. I like this idea, and I was considering it as an alternative if the section did start getting swamped with content no one wanted to click on. It's definitely a much more reasonable approach if it's necessary at all.

Scarecrow
05-18-2015, 09:14 PM
those are some cold, hard, stats there, jeff. I'm actually genuinely surprised that my thread had that much of an impact

Exile
05-19-2015, 07:31 AM
I wouldn't attribute all of the drop-off to your thread, overall activity seems to have dropped in a lot of sections. correlation and causation and all that.

Zaix
05-19-2015, 08:26 AM
Being a person that frequents the art section, I think Jeff has the right idea. With the demographic being what it is, you can't apply standards that don't fit that demographic. Let's say that time travel existed, and the me (or you) of now went back in time to when the younger you first started posting content. If I applied the same standards that I have for my art to my younger self, then almost none of my art would be viable because of my lack of experience. Standards, when applied to art, are more of a personal thing, and critique exists to improve a persons personal standards based on someone else's viewpoint. If we want to improve the standards of the art section, then the regulars who are more experienced need to lead by example by posting content that is high quality, while pushing those who are less experienced to improve by providing insightful critiques that apply to their current level. I can confess that I generally fail at this; saying I frequent the art section probably was an overstatement, although I am trying to pop in and provide some input to some of the newer threads more frequently. To prevent massive floods of new art if it suddenly becomes more active after this (doubt it will though) I think having people make their own personal threads is a great idea so people aren't throwing up thread after thread with only one picture on it. An idea that I thought might be nice as well is to have people put what program they're using in the title or the post itself, as well as the tools that they used to make it, since the critique that a person can provide hinges on that as well. I mean, just like with traditional art, you can't tell a person who paints with watercolors to try and improve through techniques that only apply in graphite art, so I think the same idea should apply to people using a tablet and high end drawing software vs. someone who only uses a mouse and flash. I don't know if you can enforce something like that, but maybe we can get some of the more frequent posters to start doing it and try to set the trend.

Salt
05-27-2015, 07:02 AM
Mods pls read.
I suggest that we make a sketches and studies thread, like the one on hyunsdojo. We can make that the place to post all "quicky" pieces, sketches, and things not otherwise considered finished to post in a thread of their own.

Camila
05-27-2015, 07:58 AM
Mods pls read.
I suggest that we make a sketches and studies thread, like the one on hyunsdojo. We can make that the place to post all "quicky" pieces, sketches, and things not otherwise considered finished to post in a thread of their own.

That's the issue tho. From what I understand, the idea is to NOT make a SEPARATED section only for stickart (or quick drawings) because this is an animation forum and we want to encourage people to draw/animate sticks or just practice some drawing. Whether they're from people that started animating 1 day or 8 years ago. I agree with what Jeff said about it.

Drone
05-27-2015, 08:42 AM
He's not talking about stickart he's talking about a sketches and studies thread

Camila
05-27-2015, 09:33 AM
He's not talking about stickart he's talking about a sketches and studies thread

I did specify that I'm not considering only stickart but all other kinds of drawings.

Drone
05-27-2015, 09:35 AM
If would be the same thing as the "beginners post your flash/pivot animations here" threads, except for quickly done art that people would probably not post otherwise. Unless you have a problem with those threads as well I don't see whete you're coming from.

Jeff
06-09-2015, 12:03 PM
Status Update! It's been a while since I mentioned anything about the state of SP's development and I know I tend to get absorbed in my work which results in unintentional communication issues, so in an effort to keep my promise here's what I've been doing in regards to StickPage:


We still have no solid plans for specific features, only a loose outline of what we want the site to encompass. We will have a few more meetings down the line before anything is final. When we have these details to announce there will be a larger announcement made.
I have been working specifically on the technology stack I want to develop the new site in. For anyone who's interested in the nerd stuff, it's being built entirely with Node JS. I have divided the stack into 3 services to start with: a web server, an API server, and a real time server. Switching to Node JS allows me to build these in one language for a faster workflow and maintain seamless communication between the services, as well as keeping us on the bleeding edge of web technology if we choose. I've been focusing on developing a smooth workflow that lets me develop and push changes more rapidly if needed, while still allowing us to operate on servers that will scale horizontally and vertically to meet demand (so less chance of unexpected down time).
Speaking of potential down time, I've written a cool inhouse service for us to use that keeps check on all of the servers we'll be using to develop StickPage. If something goes down for any reason I will get an alert and can check what's up from this service. I also customized an old Raspberry Pi (it's a tiny cheap computer for those who don't know) to run a TV UI I made that shows the statuses of the servers in real time, then I hooked it up to an unused wall mounted TV here so we have a sweet always-on monitor that flashes servers red as soon as a problem is detected. Excessive? Maybe, but you can never be too careful. Plus it was a fun weekend coding project I did while we were having a small hackathon. ;)

Hewitt
06-09-2015, 06:59 PM
something something Raspberry Pi something something TV

Holy shit. I never knew Raspberry Pi can be used that way. Could you show us (me mostly) some pics of that device when you make it? I'm getting a hardon just thinking about possibilities like that.

Also, if you guys are remaking the site, does that mean the forum comes with it as well? I'm just basing it on your development of the Dojo. I ask because then what's gonna happen with all the stuff here? We won't mind a migration plan if ever but a heads up would be nice somewhere down the line would be nice so we can prepare for it.

Drone
06-09-2015, 07:42 PM
If the forum is going to be anything like the dojo one in design, I only ask yhat you keep the "new posts" button, it's pretty inconvenient to have to actively search for new posts

Hewitt
06-09-2015, 07:47 PM
The Activity Stream is a better use than newposts. Although I would love a filter to New Posts like what Scarecrow scrounged one day in order to remove any post that's from the RHG and SE Sections

Jeff
06-09-2015, 10:33 PM
Raspberry Pis are great little video crunchers. The old model B I have can play back 1080p video streamed over my network from my home server with ease. It's great for extra TVs if you have any lying around. The newer models can do a ton more and cost the same price as the old ones did. I've had this old one sitting around unused since I moved and decided it would be a fun project to put my own UI onto it over top of Raspbian. I actually already set it up. It's nothing complex, I just hooked the Pi up to our office TV through HDMI. Most of the interesting bits are software level. The UI I developed to be connected in real time to our status service, so I can send commands to it and display messages remotely through an API.

We don't have any plans to touch the forums at this point. There will be ample notice before anything is released, so if there's any reason to prepare for something you'll know long in advance. Content authors that have things already on StickPage wont have to do anything if we move that content, I will make sure to handle that data myself.

Scarecrow
06-11-2015, 06:51 AM
hey jeff, here's an idea: any chance of adding a report button to the thread list?

like, i can recognize an ad bot thread by mousing over it (http://i.imgur.com/JBtTzpv.png). it'd be nice if i didn't have to actually give the thread a view to report it


The Activity Stream is a better use than newposts. Although I would love a filter to New Posts like what Scarecrow scrounged one day in order to remove any post that's from the RHG and SE Sections

i've got an updated version of that greasemonkey script i can share if people are interested... there were a few sections added since i posted it ages ago

Hewitt
06-11-2015, 11:00 AM
That would be nice, Scarecrow. I use greasemonkey all the time. Although, it might take some getting used to as the Activity Stream has rendered New Posts obsolete. I forgot about your old script when I became a Mod because I needed to see every section. Now? Not so much.

Scarecrow
06-11-2015, 10:04 PM
That would be nice, Scarecrow. I use greasemonkey all the time. Although, it might take some getting used to as the Activity Stream has rendered New Posts obsolete. I forgot about your old script when I became a Mod because I needed to see every section. Now? Not so much.

aight.

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f1a710489a6f4ad4f645

it swaps around "what's new" and "new posts" (so now you have the old "what's new" function, minus RHG, and a smaller button for the activity stream). i also removed RHG from the "get daily" button when you're on the search results page. should be pretty self-explanatory once you take a look.

if you have greasemonkey installed, you can automatically install the script by clicking "raw" on the page i linked

http://i.imgur.com/FhpmZsE.png

Jeff
06-12-2015, 09:51 AM
hey jeff, here's an idea: any chance of adding a report button to the thread list?

like, i can recognize an ad bot thread by mousing over it (http://i.imgur.com/JBtTzpv.png). it'd be nice if i didn't have to actually give the thread a view to report it



i've got an updated version of that greasemonkey script i can share if people are interested... there were a few sections added since i posted it ages ago

That's a good idea, I'll definitely add that to my todo list. I'd like to add more convenience enhancements like that, vbulletin hides some functions in weird places

Hewitt
06-15-2015, 09:27 AM
Hey Jeff, would it possible to implement a way to report Users straight from their profiles in the same way Mods can infract them the same way? This is so we can report potential bots who haven't posted yet (but obviously are bots from their profiles), or if we find a suspiciously familiar username of a recent ban evader. Maybe we can also report something that isn't really directed to a single post.

Also. Strikeout text. Any chance of unlocking that feature here?

Root
06-19-2015, 05:39 PM
I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, but I thought an interesting feature would be "community" threads, where the creator could give out permission to some other users to edit the OP. Not a super refined idea, but it might be useful for stuff like clan threads and maybe forum games.

Scarecrow
06-20-2015, 07:28 AM
I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, but I thought an interesting feature would be "community" threads, where the creator could give out permission to some other users to edit the OP. Not a super refined idea, but it might be useful for stuff like clan threads and maybe forum games.

that's a neat idea. it wouldn't be ideal for everybody to be able to edit the post... i think would work best if the OP could edit a whitelist of users who then have permission to. maybe an option to roll back edits made by others, as well.

Vorpal
06-21-2015, 01:52 PM
Yeah like when I made the smash 4 thread, I really wished I could've given a few other players control over the OP.

Hewitt
06-23-2015, 08:26 PM
Is there a feature in the Groups that allows you to make private threads that no one except your invitees can see?

Scarecrow
06-24-2015, 02:33 AM
Is there a feature in the Groups that allows you to make private threads that no one except your invitees can see?

people use groups?

Hewitt
06-24-2015, 02:42 AM
That's not the point. I'm simply looking for a use to them.

For example, I can run mafia games and use private groups to make a place where the Mafia can freely talk under my supervision.

Jeff
07-06-2015, 11:27 AM
So it's been nearly a month since my last update, and I figure it's time again to let you know that the gears are still turning. Once again if anyone is interested in the more technical aspects of what I'm doing feel free to ask and we can talk about that nerd stuff. Here's where we're at a month later.

Last time (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92719-StickPage-Related-Discussion&p=1371081&viewfull=1#post1371081) I talked about wanting to remain on the bleeding edge by using NodeJS to our advantage. This is exactly what I've spent the last month on when building the web server that will power the new SP. I've designed a web server that works with my client application to deliver the website nearly as fast as NodeJS will currently allow. I've intentionally chosen to make some compromises in speed in order to maintain a reasonable workflow and development time, so it could be faster if I didn't use certain existing frameworks like express, but then development would take a lot longer.

This will be particularly useful for visitors from outside the US & Canada or on mobile who have a high round trip time when accessing the site. I've put a lot of effort into getting a fast TTFB (time to first byte, the point when your browser starts receiving webpage data) as we're using chunked encoding to stream data instead of sending it all at once, so that the site starts rendering insanely quickly. You'll still get the site at the same speed you would if your browser waited until the page was fully downloaded to render it, but seeing the important bits first allows you to start interacting with the site sooner which is really handy when all you want to do is check your notifications.

Generally the slowest part of SP will be when first loading the site. From then on my client code does some voodoo caching to keep critical components available any time. This might lead to parts of SP being accessible even while offline. Subsequent requests to the web server only deliver the data that is needed, so elements like the navigation menu that don't need to be sent every time you load a page get ignored, which further reduces the amount of data being sent to the client.

I'm happy with the performance of the web server so I've moved on to database design as the next step in developing the API side of things. I've been looking into the latest technologies and haven't made any final decisions, but I'm leaning towards using the old MySQL standby as long term storage with a Redis cache to speed up retrieval of new or commonly accessed data. Redis is an in-memory db and isn't suited for long term storage, but it's really fast and supported by NodeJS quite easily. Adding this extra layer helps deliver the actual content much faster.

One of my goals for this next month is to begin locking down our plans in order to get a full roadmap that you guys can look at to see where I am development wise. I recently poured over the analytics of SP in order to get a better idea of where our strengths and weaknesses are outside the community, and I learned quite a bit from it that I'm going to apply to the new site. Our ideas are constantly shifting so a roadmap at this point isn't feasible, but it will come when it's ready.

@Hewitt I know this is late as fuck and not even helpful but I don't actually know if that's a feature vBulletin offers. I'm likely going to be ripping out vBulletin's groups feature in favor of my own in order to integrate it better with the rest of the site anyway. If that happens I'll make sure to include something like that. There will be a lot of opportunity for input and feedback on that stuff.

Scarecrow
07-30-2015, 10:30 PM
hey jeff, i'm having some problems lately with posting. i can't edit my posts any more (the buttons on the post editor don't work), and i can't reply with quote without loading the advanced editor by clicking on the button repeatedly.

have you changed something recently? is anybody else having this issue, or did i fuck up something on my end?

Drone
07-30-2015, 10:37 PM
hey jeff, i'm having some problems lately with posting. i can't edit my posts any more (the buttons on the post editor don't work), and i can't reply with quote without loading the advanced editor by clicking on the button repeatedly.

have you changed something recently? is anybody else having this issue, or did i fuck up something on my end?

I'm not having these problems but some people are, it's pretty strange

_Ai_
07-30-2015, 11:01 PM
Maybe it's your connection/computer? I've a pretty low end computer, things like that happens sometimes.

Though I do doubt it considering I see you as a computer wizard haha

Scarecrow
07-30-2015, 11:14 PM
the only thing i've changed recently is disabling flash player. a lot of people using firefox would have had this disabled recently as well (automatically due to security vulnerability)... maybe that has something to do with it?

and no, it's not my internet or my computer. my computer is a beast and my internet is as good as it gets in australia

Jeff
07-31-2015, 09:01 AM
Thanks for letting me know, I will look into this as soon as I can. It's a short work day for me but I'll try to dedicate some time today to figuring it out, but since I don't have the problem it might be difficult for me to recreate it. I know the issues you describe sound like when the Javascript was fucky a while ago, as they rely on AJAX to work. If you need to do some self-troubleshooting I would take a look in the developer console and see what error messages are being spit out. May have something to do with your browser or a modification you use, or it might be something I've done recently. Either way I'll try to get to it as fast as I can 'cause I know how annoying it can be

Scarecrow
07-31-2015, 09:06 AM
this pops up in console when i click "edit"

[01:05:38.507] ReferenceError: CKEDITOR is not defined @ http://forums.stickpage.com/clientscript/vbulletin_quick_edit.js?v=422:11

and this when i click "reply with quote"

[01:06:21.336] TypeError: vB_Editor[QR_EditorID] is undefined @ http://forums.stickpage.com/clientscript/vbulletin_quick_reply.js?v=422:11

Jeff
07-31-2015, 10:31 AM
Yeah it's definitely a JS error then. Something else is probably breaking the JS execution. What browser specifically do you use again? I'll get that and try with Flash disabled but I don't think Flash is relied on for anything JS wise. I think it may be my physics button depending on when it started so I'll disable that for now, let me know if it works.

Index
07-31-2015, 06:18 PM
http://i.imgur.com/e2uOY67.png

wtf is up with this section?

Hewitt
07-31-2015, 08:05 PM
Before I stepped down there was a sluggishly ongoing discussion concerning revamping that place and updating it to current standards.

Sometime after that, this issue was forgotten, until it was brought up again in public. Then Devour volunteered to fix it and became a mod of that section to do so.

That was months ago. Devour, how are we doing?

Index
07-31-2015, 08:07 PM
devour is the most unresponsive mod ever he probably won't reply to you

Hewitt
07-31-2015, 08:11 PM
You're talking about Your-Era-Devour, when he went MIA for a long time and got sacked before you quit.

He certainly replied when I asked him to BE the tuts mod at the time that he pitched he can fix this place.

Devour
07-31-2015, 08:16 PM
I only check the general section like once a month. Be in awe that I'm replying, plebians :o

I think the agreement we came to was to do away with the Official Tutorials and move everything to the section they belong in, and to give every thread in the tutorial section "tags" to make it easier for people to find what they needed with the search function. I did it all in like 6 hours of straight work and then from that point on there was nothing more to do except to edit the thread titles of new tutorials that show up once a month. Azure helped too, and that was great because it would have taken even longer without him.

As far as I know there's not really anything else being done there

Scarecrow
07-31-2015, 08:21 PM
index, you probably have old posts hidden or something


Yeah it's definitely a JS error then. Something else is probably breaking the JS execution. What browser specifically do you use again? I'll get that and try with Flash disabled but I don't think Flash is relied on for anything JS wise. I think it may be my physics button depending on when it started so I'll disable that for now, let me know if it works.

i'm using pale moon, which is a fork of firefox. problem is still there.

Index
07-31-2015, 08:30 PM
index, you probably have old posts hidden or something
i'm confused. am i supposed to be seeing more than just paperdick's thread?
http://i.imgur.com/Hbevy6n.png

Azure
07-31-2015, 08:38 PM
No, because everything else had dead links or was spam. There's nothing else in Official Tutorials.

Drone
07-31-2015, 08:38 PM
No that's the only thread left in there, Devoir moved all the tutorials to the other sub forum and official tutorials should really just not exist but only Jeff can do stuff like delete sections

Ninja'd

Jeff
08-06-2015, 01:34 PM
Another month another update. Previously (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92719-StickPage-Related-Discussion&p=1380049&viewfull=1#post1380049) I talked about the technology that will power the new SP and my plans moving forward for the database design.

I've switched gears now and started designing the proposed look of the new site as well as locking in feature ideas as I go. Design wise I'm going with a flat look mixed with the "artistic" features that SP's main site is known for. The flat look is intended as a compromise with featuring artwork, as flat design is super easy to make using just HTML and CSS and uses up less file size which means faster loading times. The more I can reduce the use of images, the faster things will load, so by not having many images as critical parts of the interface the content of the site can start loading faster.

Out of the box SP will support mobile, tablet and desktop views. I am making sure full touch support is there for those of us who find the additional input useful. The whole design is built around a progressive enhancement paradigm, where you are never restricted based on how you're accessing the site. The design just adapts to suit how you access the site, adding optional features (such as touch support) depending on what you have available. The only thing I obviously cannot help is the lack of Flash player on some browsers and mobile, but we're going to be offering video uploads with an HTML5 video player when we can for those users.

The portal is going to be for animations only. Some might expect games, music or art to be enabled, but those are a bit beyond the scope of this project at the moment and may be added down the line. We still offer sponsorships for really good games and so they will still be available for submission that way. I have not spent much time specifically on how the portal will work but you can expect something similar to what I've built in the past for FA and Hyun's Dojo. The focus for SP is more on content, so I'm taking care to make it easy to find something to watch or play.

We're also separating Sponsored and Portal content in certain ways to ensure that sponsored content which is paid for and curated is clearly labelled. Currently the plan is to take sponsored content out of portal ranking and keep it separate, as we want to feature content that we've sponsored but that will give it an unfair advantage if competing against non-sponsored content. This may change, there will be plenty of information available when we actually launch in order to understand how things work.

Sponsorships will be getting better as well. I know historically there has been problems getting and completing sponsorships, and we've been taking steps to fix this. That is why one of the planned features is for a more automated sponsorship process that makes it easy to submit and check the status of your sponsorship requests. This system will be curated heavily, as we know that it opens us up to swarms of people trying to submit anything to see what happens. We'll be taking steps to make sure abuses of this system do not happen, and it could very well change completely. This is the best method for you guys that we can think of right now, as it turns the hard part of submitting into just typing out the details of your content. We'll have more details on that closer to launch, but once it's submitted it will be reviewed and you'll be able to see updates on it right on SP with plenty of notifications.

I'm also putting in a lot of effort to make the ads work with the design. They will be out of the way as much as possible, fitting into the page as natural elements rather than slathered all over. We've also decided not to show ads on certain parts of the site such as the portal or the forums for the time being as a gesture towards the community, as we do not believe it's necessary to risk making community oriented features worse. As always you're free to use adblock as that's your choice to make, but I'm hoping that by making the ads more palatable and delivering a worthwhile experience I will be able to convince at least some adblock users to put us on their whitelist, as ads are what keep this site going especially for free.

I've also been designing how user accounts are going to work. We're at an impasse with the forums at the moment as this place has a long history, an established user base and many features used by members here that I don't personally use or think about. I am hesitant to touch the forums as such, because I could break anything by mistake. Developing a new forum would be a bit of an undertaking since I would need to ensure that all used features are brought over, and since I'm not 100% sure what everyone uses it feels like I'd just be remaking vBulletin. What's the point in that?

At the same time it's not easy to develop a modern experience with legacy PHP code. It would be hugely beneficial to just that: remake vBulletin. We still don't know for sure what we're doing but the forums will be getting an upgrade either way, even if it's just visually to fit in with the site. You will not have to remake your accounts. I will not do anything to jeopardize existing data on the server. If we do make our own forum software or use another forum software, all user data will be brought over. I will personally ensure it. You will be able to log in to the new site with the same account you always have.

User accounts will be very personalized. We plan to have user subscriptions so you can keep up to date with your favorite authors, a reliable chat system that works on any device, notifications that have useful actions in them, a reading list to act as a bookmarker of sorts for the tutorial section and additional literature on the site, messages for a more traditional messaging system, and some other features we're toying with but cannot announce yet. All of these features will be available in real time without needing to refresh the page as part of my efforts to keep things fast.

Feels like there's so much more to talk about but I'm going to cut it short here and maybe do another update halfway through the month when I've started designing other features. I post screenshots and gif previews in IRC occasionally so if you're interested in the development and giving input feel free to lurk around #stickpage on irc.adelais.net, I'm usually around from 10 AM - 5 PM Moutain Time, Monday to Friday. I'm not always actively chatting since I'm working on SP during that time, but feel free to say hi or ask a question if you need to talk to me.

Azure
08-06-2015, 01:43 PM
I'm curious about the Portal, and specifically, I'm wondering if it'll be possible to submit things into the "Sponsored" category, bypassing the need to contact stone or CRAZY JAY to get the sponsorship. Of course, this would likely put into play a sort of way to categorize submissions so prices don't have to be negotiated to such length, and I don't think anyone would have any real issues with it.

Jeff
08-06-2015, 01:51 PM
I wrote a whole paragraph on that.

Azure
08-06-2015, 01:54 PM
I wrote a whole paragraph on that.

I noticed, but I suppose I'm misinterpreting some aspects about it. Is it all around sponsorships for just anything, or is it specifically for animations outside of competitions? I suppose as is, it seems like it was more targeting sponsored events, which is where I noticed the complaints more.

Jeff
08-06-2015, 02:03 PM
I noticed, but I suppose I'm misinterpreting some aspects about it. Is it all around sponsorships for just anything, or is it specifically for animations outside of competitions? I suppose as is, it seems like it was more targeting sponsored events, which is where I noticed the complaints more.

General sponsorships. Events will probably have a different system. The system I am referring to is specifically to get a game or an animation sponsored, we don't sponsor anything else. Hopefully that answers your question, I am a bit confused by what you need clarification on if I'm honest. You just seemed to be asking questions that I address directly. Sponsorships aren't part of the portal at all, that's what I was getting at by saying they would be separated in certain ways. It's not a category it's a different method for submitting to the site completely. The content you submit for sponsorship isn't immediately visible to anyone, it undergoes a review process and if accepted it will be released on a schedule.

Azure
08-06-2015, 02:11 PM
My questions got answered. Thanks, I know they seemed a bit strange.

Drone
08-06-2015, 02:48 PM
Please make the mobile version opt in and not mandatory like hyunsdojos

Jeff
08-06-2015, 02:55 PM
Please make the mobile version opt in and not mandatory like hyunsdojos

Why? It will conform to a request for the "desktop version" if the page is requested by the browser, but it doesn't make sense to offer something that wasn't meant for smart phones. I would understand if it wasn't a complete experience or had bugs like theirs, but as I said the SP one is going to be functionally identical. Getting the desktop version is an option but that's what should be opt-in, not the other way around.

Drone
08-06-2015, 03:07 PM
Why? It will conform to a request for the "desktop version" if the page is requested by the browser, but it doesn't make sense to offer something that wasn't meant for smart phones. I would understand if it wasn't a complete experience or had bugs like theirs, but as I said the SP one is going to be functionally identical. Getting the desktop version is an option but that's what should be opt-in, not the other way around.

No I mean like on HD "request desktop version" doesn't work at all, I'd like it to

Jeff
08-06-2015, 03:12 PM
Oh yeah I understand that, you said the mobile version should be "opt-in" though which means by default it shows the desktop version unless you ask for the mobile version. The "request desktop version" is basically an "opt-out" for mobile, which makes more sense. If that's your concern then yes it will be opt-out using that feature. It already responds that way in the prototype so worry not!

Hewitt
08-07-2015, 01:50 AM
Really appreciating taking your time to update us, Jeff. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Mustika
08-07-2015, 04:52 AM
Woah Jeff all those updates sound very promising! Thank you.

I got a suggestion regarding to Community Animations (http://forums.stickpage.com/forumdisplay.php?43-Community-Animations) section (and am unsure if this has been posted here ever, my bad if it already was). Will there be another section provided for those who use animating software other than Flash, Pivot, and Easytoon (e.g. Blender, ToonBoom, etc)? Because some new members that don't really use those three main softwares tend to be confused if they ever want to showcase their works - as I don't feel Flash section is the proper place to be honest. I'm just thinking that probably "Other" sub-forum should be there for anims which aren't made from Flash, Pivot, and Easytoon.

Apex-Predator
08-12-2015, 08:54 AM
All these sound very fucking nice, really fucking nice.

Devour
08-28-2015, 02:19 PM
Will it not be until after the site update that spoilers work on the mobile version? I have to switch to the Full Site to open those buggers.

Drone
08-28-2015, 02:38 PM
Will it not be until after the site update that spoilers work on the mobile version? I have to switch to the Full Site to open those buggers.

Spoilers work for me, what do you mean

Devour
08-28-2015, 04:11 PM
What do you mean what do I mean? Spoilers don't seem to work for me on my phone :u

If it helps at all, I'm using an Android

Drone
08-28-2015, 04:12 PM
What do you mean what do I mean? Spoilers don't seem to work for me on my phone :u

If it helps at all, I'm using an Android

Ooooh wait, you meant the mobile style for the forums lol, I completely forgot that was even a thing

Jeff
08-28-2015, 05:08 PM
I just replaced the old spoiler code with one that's a bit smarter and works on mobile. The "show/hide" button on desktop looks weird now but it's functional. I'll fix the style when I get home.

Mustika
08-28-2015, 05:16 PM
Was a bit worried that I couldn't access any spoilers on Eyedentify 2 several minutes ago haha. But now it is.
Thanks a lot, Jeff.

Hewitt
08-30-2015, 06:43 PM
Finally, a spoiler button that isn't of the Windows 95 Persuasion. XD

Scarecrow
08-31-2015, 06:57 AM
I just replaced the old spoiler code with one that's a bit smarter and works on mobile. The "show/hide" button on desktop looks weird now but it's functional. I'll fix the style when I get home.

any chance of fixing spoilers so they don't get cut off in signatures? ie. enable spoilers to temporarily increase the maximum size of somebody's signature so that the spoiler expands properly without being cut off

Apex-Predator
08-31-2015, 08:25 AM
Is there also a way that you could decrease the alpha of the gradient cut off effect if the spoiler?

Jeff
09-03-2015, 12:02 PM
I'm going to be busy in the next week so I'm writing this update out a little early. I've had an incredibly productive month in regards to SP and I expect September will go just as well. In the last episode (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92719-StickPage-Related-Discussion&p=1392250&viewfull=1#post1392250) I began to expound upon a few of the proposed design and features for the new site. This month I mostly flipped back to the nitty gritty technical stuff, since as much fun as the visual and feature design process is you can only do so much until you really need to finish laying the foundation out.

We've got a more solid idea of everything we need now, so those features are influencing the server stack I had started working out before hand. I decided that a relational MySQL database + Redis cache isn't an appropriate setup for the features we want to implement, so I went back to the basics on databases to get a refresher on how databases actually work. By doing this I now believe that a more appropriate database design for SP would be what's called a graph database. It's an incredibly performant design, and is the same kind of database that major companies with millions of users use. The performance of this kind of database lets me work with far more complex relational data without sacrificing much speed. It's also dead simple to represent to anyone. It takes the complex MySQL schema and turns it into something I can draw on a white board.

With this effectively feeding us data along side a proper cache I can maintain an incredible speed for the website. I'm trying to squeeze everything I can out of these technologies in order to provide the kind of complex features that will make SP a much more approachable place again while still keeping the site rolling along without making you wait to get the content you want.

With an early version of the database in place I'm still getting impressive performance out of the development version of the site. For example in comparison to loading Google.ca on the slow office internet here, the dev version of SP was ready to be used in 551ms, and finished loading 1.3 MB of data in 2.72s whereas Google was ready in 667ms and loaded only 483 KB in 6.87s. This may not seem like all that much of a difference but these differences get bigger the slower your internet connection is. I really want SP to be accessible for everyone, and since our servers are hosting in the US this focus on speed is a huge benefit to our overseas friends.

Now that I'm set on a database I've gotten deep into the API that will power SP. The API is separated from the web server so that if we want to expand to a mobile app or other clients in the future we will have a convenient way to access our data. I don't know how many programmers hang around here but we may end up making it public so that other developers can build their own apps that interface with SP to a degree. For example the foundation I've written can be easily used for things like earning achievements from games like what NG has. That's not on our immediate feature list but it's not out of the cards. :)

Along side the technical improvements I also did some more creative work for some unique elements on the site. I don't want SP to be cookie-cutter or sterile, so I've been exploring more unique design elements we could add to express our personlity. One of the concepts I am playing with is actually having a header for the games section of SP that IS a small HTML5 game you can play. This exploration has been a nice change of pace from SP development because I haven't done much in the way of game development in a while. I am building a procedural bipedal walk/run animation system on top of a skeleton animation system to make the game stand out and demonstrate a certain quality. Stick animations are getting incredibly smooth and well thought out, so I wanted to capture that with this system. It's got a ways to go but here's an early gif of it in action:

http://i.imgur.com/sMRDZFp.gif

Also the system I wrote is dynamic enough that I can attach and define any number of limbs as legs and they will automatically factor into the walk cycle:

http://i.imgur.com/oHzKZNz.gif

http://i.imgur.com/pIUTHmN.gif

I did absolutely no animation in any of this. It's far from perfect yet but it's getting there. I made a nifty editor for the skeleton animation system I wrote as well, to make defining poses much easier and more visual:

http://i.imgur.com/QtI1eHb.png

When the site is released I am considering open sourcing this mini-project to let anyone on here tinker with simple stick figure game development in HTML5. Depends on the interest I guess.

Anyway, I am still planning on setting up a roadmap website but that task keeps getting set aside. I think once the API foundation is in place I'll revisit the roadmap since it'll be easier to construct from that point. For now I am just gonna keep making these posts each month to organize my thoughts.

Also in regards to the above posts: I could probably implement expanding the signature when showing spoilers. I don't really see the point in decreasing the gradient, though. I set a maximum size for signatures and the space that bar takes up is accounted for. The entire bar is designed that way to show where the clickable area is, if I reduced the gradient it doesn't make that space usable again.

Scarecrow
09-07-2015, 07:13 AM
jeff, that's fucking awesome. i haven't learned anything about html5 yet, but i'm curious to take a gander at the code you've come up with for the procedural walking. i briefly experimented with actionscripted walking back in the day, and it was a real bitch to get working and looked shit in the end anyway.

Salt
09-07-2015, 08:24 AM
The possibilities this idea of automated movement is endless. Tons of kudos to you Jeff.

Chaotic Penguin
09-10-2015, 06:47 PM
So I was wondering, if the new SP could have a reddit-style spoiler, where it only blocks the words, and shows if you mouse over it. I'm not saying take out the current spoiler, but adding that would make it easier to cover certain words or phrases w/o completely cutting the sentence off. Maybe call it [cover] or something.

Scarecrow
09-10-2015, 11:38 PM
So I was wondering, if the new SP could have a reddit-style spoiler, where it only blocks the words, and shows if you mouse over it. I'm not saying take out the current spoiler, but adding that would make it easier to cover certain words or phrases w/o completely cutting the sentence off. Maybe call it [cover] or something.

in-line spoilers would be useful, yeah

GMR
09-13-2015, 11:15 PM
So I was wondering, if the new SP could have a reddit-style spoiler, where it only blocks the words, and shows if you mouse over it. I'm not saying take out the current spoiler, but adding that would make it easier to cover certain words or phrases w/o completely cutting the sentence off. Maybe call it [cover] or something.

Would like to have this too.

Also, looking good Jeff! Keep up the great work.

Jeff
09-15-2015, 11:58 AM
jeff, that's fucking awesome. i haven't learned anything about html5 yet, but i'm curious to take a gander at the code you've come up with for the procedural walking. i briefly experimented with actionscripted walking back in the day, and it was a real bitch to get working and looked shit in the end anyway.

I'll definitely release the source on github once I've finished the project then, glad to see some interest :) Right now I'm making a lot of improvements to the animation engine so I don't wanna release the unfinished code, but for sure if there's even a slight amount of interest I'll put something up.

Hewitt
09-21-2015, 08:46 PM
Didn't even know such things were possible with html5. Good job, man.

Jeff
09-22-2015, 10:46 AM
In case anyone is wondering, Stone's account was compromised so he's been removed as admin for now. The attacker didn't do anything serious, and I've already reversed any changes they attempted to make. We don't need to reset the database, no information was leaked. Nothing to worry about.

GMR
09-22-2015, 05:52 PM
0_0 Glad nothing serious happened.

Vorpal
09-22-2015, 06:22 PM
In case anyone is wondering, Stone's account was compromised so he's been removed as admin for now. The attacker didn't do anything serious, and I've already reversed any changes they attempted to make. We don't need to reset the database, no information was leaked. Nothing to worry about.
Good work.

Hewitt
09-23-2015, 12:50 AM
Speaking of which Jeff, how is stone lately? I don't usually peruse the top sections of this forum so I don't know if he's actually still here. We usually get glimpses of him when he posts his twitch links in the Chat Thread and that hasn't happened in awhile.

Jeff
10-01-2015, 03:14 PM
Speaking of which Jeff, how is stone lately? I don't usually peruse the top sections of this forum so I don't know if he's actually still here. We usually get glimpses of him when he posts his twitch links in the Chat Thread and that hasn't happened in awhile.

Stone is fine, he's working on projects relating to SP at the moment and occasionally collaborates with me for ideas on the new site.

Not_Nish
10-02-2015, 09:48 AM
Good catch, Jeff.

Just curious, what do hackers mostly have to gain by hacking into a site like Stickpage? Just shits and giggles?

Jeff
10-02-2015, 10:34 AM
If you'd believe it, it seems a lot of the time it's politically motivated. The convenient and free access to entertainment and games gives SP an audience in some impoverished countries with tense political or social climates. Even though we think of ourselves as a small community, the actual number of people visiting the site daily from these countries is quite large which makes us viable targets and due to the unfortunate use of vBulletin - a paid software with paid updates and limited security support - we are often also vulnerable between when a new exploit is discovered and vBulletin decides to release a patch for it. It's pretty much a dead simple no-brainer for a hacker that wants to put up a message that targets our audience in those countries. We've previously been hacked by a group in the middle east and all they did was show propaganda, the same thing has been attempted a few times since then whenever a new exploit in VB is found, but I've managed to put in protections so they can't do much. Each time I see them attempting to edit the forum template with some kind of message.

Isaac
10-02-2015, 11:18 AM
Don't know If this Belongs here but What was the first ever Animation to exist In Stickpage?

guramecon
10-05-2015, 11:57 PM
Have a suggestion? Let's talk about it.
I wish there's an IRC Chat window in Stickpage forum
Since many people didn't (or maybe lazy to) install IRC Client, maybe we can put the client on the forum


Don't know If this Belongs here but What was the first ever Animation to exist In Stickpage?
If I'm not mistaken, stickpage.com is belong to crazy jay's personal website that used to post his stickfigure animations

You can see the history of this website here : https://web.archive.org/web/*/stickpage.com

Scarecrow
10-06-2015, 08:22 PM
I wish there's an IRC Chat window in Stickpage forum
Since many people didn't (or maybe lazy to) install IRC Client, maybe we can put the client on the forum

that's actually a cool idea. surely there's an open source embeddable irc client around somewhere we could use?

Jeff
10-07-2015, 01:52 AM
I will look into it again. I've thought of doing it a few times but the problem was that there were no clients that I would trust with putting on the site. Putting it on the site immediately means opening it up to way more people and in turn more potential for abuse, so we need a good team in IRC to keep the channel clean and a reliable way to ban people. Many clients connected in a way that made it difficult to ban by IP and others required a plugin to work. I'd like to see what's available now in a Javascript format or something, I'll look into it and post back here.

In other news it's time for my monthly update on the new site. Previously on NerdTalk (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?92719-StickPage-Related-Discussion&p=1401629&viewfull=1#post1401629) I outlined my final choice of database and my work in speed performance and API construction. I also talked a bit about the game I am making as part of the new SP layout. This month I shelved the game for the time being to refocus on the actual design of the new site. It was a welcome distraction and I will finish it, but it's obviously not a priority. Sometimes I need to take a mental break if I work on one task for too long, so this game is intended to be a nice productive way for me to do that then revisit my work with a fresh perspective. It will be worth it in the end as the project will tie into the new website experience in a bigger way than just being a cool header.

Anyway since I had hit a point where continuing on the design would influence the API choices I make, I've been on a sort of spiritual journey to create a design language I'm happy with for SP. I've mentioned before that I don't think a clean flat look would be right for SP, at least not the way all my designer friends enjoy doing. Don't get me wrong I do think it's an aesthetically pleasing professional look, but SP has never really been known for it's professionalism. I have this vision just out of reach for something flat but fun, and it's both frustrating and motivating. Much of this month has been spent forking the web server a bunch of times in order to explore different looks. I feel like I've come a long way in figuring out what I want, but I'm still not satisfied. I'm drawing a lot of inspiration from motion design, and my favorite explorations so far are the ones with moving elements that are made with intent and perceived responsiveness in mind.

I chose to hold to a policy of only adding animation to elements if I could justify it beyond "it would look nice". I find that a UI that tries to be fancy by overusing animation actually just becomes frustrating. Having an immediate response to an action not only saves time, it feels good. When you load animations on to everything it might look nice but the viewer's brain is getting impatient because it's waiting for the task you initiated to be fulfilled. Website interfaces for sites that offer a service are first and foremost supposed to deliver the service effectively and intuitively, not attempt to become the center of attention. I mean how annoying would it be if you wanted to breeze through setting your controls in a game so you could get back to the game, and every menu transition was a 1 second star wipe? For me it can be tricky modelling my web design after motion design, since I find it very easy to go over board which creates the same frustration I am trying to avoid. Forcing myself to justify every use of animation - to think, "This is needed because I need to attract the viewer's attention so they know this button is here," or, "I'll start this animation immediately while the action is sent to the server so there is perceived response," - it produces a satisfying experience that gets me closer to hitting that level of intuitiveness where the UI never crosses your mind. My issue now is just applying that to a flat style that fits SP. If anyone has any suggestions or examples of interfaces they like, please feel free to post as I'm always looking for inspiration and ideas. Sometimes working out the reasoning for other people's design decisions helps me solve my own problems.

Other than my design quest I've been finalizing some of the finer details for the features that will be a part of the new SP so the end product is starting to take shape. I've talked about some specific features before but I've been meaning to give a loose outline for the features that are for sure going to happen. I get a lot of comments from people who want to know for sure if there is a portal or if RHG is being affected, so hopefully this clears things up. I'd appreciate it if anyone would link people here if they see those comments around, just to help the information spread. Keep in mind that just because I don't mention something here doesn't mean it wont be included.

There will be:

A Portal - The portal will be the backbone of the site. Every bit of media will be served out of this system. It is designed with an easy sponsorship system (which I've talked about before) as part of it in order to encourage and give incentive to animators to better themselves. It's intended to be one level above getting your animation on the front page - now you can get paid for your work through the site. The system is flexible enough that we can categorize portal submissions and treat them differently. A sponsored animation for example would hypothetically be taken out of the portal ranking system as it would be unfair to allow sponsored content (which gets more exposure) to be rated the same as regular content, while still keeping a score, the same comments, and the same authors. Speaking of which, there will be a proper credits system in the portal as well. You will be able to add users to your submission in order to share credit. Rewards and other perks achieved by that submission will apply to all credited accounts. The system will let you define the roles of each credit as well, so you can have "Stone - Animator", "Jeff - Programmer" and "WafflesMgee - Writer". I wanted this credits system in it because I think as we grow as a community sharing ideas and experience will become essential, so collaborative projects should become more accessible and easier to manage. Having everyone get a fair share creates incentive. I've intentionally allowed any role to be assigned, as I don't want to restrict to a few generic terms or terms specific to a medium, as this system isn't limited to just video content. This leads me to the next thing I want to mention.

Something for Writers - Since I can serve different content out of the same base system, I have planned out a very useful writing tool for the sweet little writing community that has grown within SP. It wont be something that's included along side animations in the portal, in fact I'm not sure if there will be a site-wide ranking for it at all. The actual idea started out as being for another part of the site, but I liked the idea so much that I felt it would be awesome to make it available on a site-wide scale. There are two basic aspects to it: the first is a publication tool that will allow you to format and style your document, and do other useful things like create a table of contents or save drafts. Using this you can publish literary works to various parts of the site like your own profile or to a community. The second part is a "reading list" that is always accessible from your user bar when signed in. In this list will be literary submissions that you have chosen to save there, or submissions that you have open. By design literary submissions are viewed without actually leaving the page you're on. This is done so that you can easily and quickly pull up these submissions for information at a glance, then close them and get right back to what you were doing. Your position in the document will be saved, so going back to it will put you right down to where you left off. This will be very useful for it's original purpose in the tutorials system, which leads me to:

A Tutorials System - This literary submission system was meant to be for tutorials, with the idea being that you can be animating, then quickly switch to SP and press two buttons to pull up a tutorial you need regardless of what page you're on, find the information, then returning to animating. There's no hunting down tutorials or navigating through 20 menus to get what you want. The tutorials system will be a portal of sorts in it's own right. We will be writing and publishing extensive tutorials in-house which will be featured first and foremost as they will tie in to your user account in some way, but we also want to open it up for anyone to create tutorials which can be ranked by readers based on how helpful they are. The best tutorials could be featured or promoted. CJ is really excited about this one. A big part of our vision for the new site comes from the renewed desire to help others learn a skill. Having a well thought out and accessible tutorial system is going to help a lot of people get started.

RHG: The Next Generation - The RHG system is getting a complete overhaul. This has been something we've been working on for a while and there will be a lot of information to cover on it which we will do later, but I promise it will be worth the wait. I don't want to give too much away since I do want to have a few surprises when we release (they will be big ones ;) ), but I've been asked a lot about RHG so here's what I want to share now to give you an idea where we're headed. First, the system is upgrading to an automated one. RHGs will be treated almost like another account that doesn't have voting privileges. You will be able to create your RHG character through an interactive system meant to replace the tedious process of posting a filled out template, and the character will be attached to your profile. We are being careful to keep the spirit of RHG untouched: you will have complete creative control over every aspect of your RHG character. We have designed our automated system to work hand in hand with your creativity.

RHG battles will be initiated using a battle system that will handle the agreement between two gladiators. You will define your terms and agree on a due date and length of voting time. You can submit your battle any time through this system up to the due date. If you haven't uploaded it on time you will lose by forfeit, unless you both agreed to extend the deadline before hand or your opponent grants you extra time. When you submit your battle it will be handled by the portal system as a battle; users can still rate it like normal in the portal but the submission will be linked to a battle page where both battles are showcased, the winner can be voted for and discussion about the battle can take place. Battles will be showcased in an RHG section on the site and will probably have some way of sorting them based on interest in the outcome. The RHG page will be an important hub into the RHG universe, it will not only have battles but show what's going on with other RHGs, as well as events currently going on related to RHG and other interactive secrets ;).

We've been working hard to make RHG better creative tool in general. It gives you a platform to launch your imagination off of, not just for animators but of course for wRHG as well. The new RHG is developed with a universe and story in mind, officially. We chose to take this route a while ago, trust me when I say the feedback towards RHG has always been heard and we're finally introducing these features we've wanted for years. Having a well thought out and cohesive universe that doesn't place restrictions on what your character can do or what story elements you have to include is going to be a big part of the new RHG. Much of the system is designed around this story, and the system will evolve as the story progresses and events occur. As we're building a universe together, we will consider every character created as a valid part of that universe, however since our narrative is intentionally ambiguous everyone has the opportunity to simply opt out of participating if they just want to use the system in their own way. You do not have to battle to own an RHG. It wont affect what we do.

This new RHG will give everyone a fresh start with a canon reason for the new beginnings. The story will account for the old existing RHG system and all previous generations, there will be an established reason why RHG is a thing in this universe. We are very excited for this new RHG, the anticipation is agonizing. I don't want to give away much more for now, we'll have more details and a full explanation of everything when we're closer to launching it all. There's a lot of surprises in store for the new SP in general that I don't think people are expecting at all. I definitely think it will be worth sticking with us through the rough times. With some TLC from all of us the new RHG system creates a much better environment for creating and learning. I can't wait to see what people come up with.

Anyway that's all I have in me for now. It's late and I should get to bed. Apologies if there are any typos or weirdly worded sentences, I'm too tired to go back through and proof read right now. Hopefully my mind dump makes sense.

guramecon
10-07-2015, 04:35 AM
I will look into it again. I've thought of doing it a few times but the problem was that there were no clients that I would trust with putting on the site. Putting it on the site immediately means opening it up to way more people and in turn more potential for abuse, so we need a good team in IRC to keep the channel clean and a reliable way to ban people. Many clients connected in a way that made it difficult to ban by IP and others required a plugin to work. I'd like to see what's available now in a Javascript format or something, I'll look into it and post back here.
Maybe you can put the client for Registered users only?
And you can ban IRC user by banning the forum account (linked rule)
speaking of IRC Client, Free Open-source client isn't trusted enough?

Anyway about this Automated RHG System,
Does that mean we will have our own RHG page? that would be awesome

Good work Jeff, I'm looking forward for the updates!

[Random Question]
Are you get paid for your efforts? or you do this on your desire?

Smile
10-07-2015, 05:01 AM
there will be a proper credits system in the portal as well. You will be able to add users to your submission in order to share credit. Rewards and other perks achieved by that submission will apply to all credited accounts. The system will let you define the roles of each credit as well, so you can have "Stone - Animator", "Jeff - Programmer" and "WafflesMgee - Writer".

God I hope this completely eliminates those long ass credits that people like to bloat their animations with. Like seriously, they'd add another song that would just make the file size unnecessarily bigger.
--

Suggestion: Would you be able to like, make some kind of preloader for all animations? This way, there would be no need to add preloaders into the animations themselves, and animators can just upload their animation and the preloader would automatically be there. It's just that some animators would forget to put one, and their animations play automatically. It gets worse when they put that code thing that removes the right click so you won't be able to press the rewind button. I hate this because I usually put loading animations on the side and do something else, so when I'm done I can go back and the animation would have already fully loaded.

A player would probably give the same benefit and even allow a lot more functionality, but idk the player on hyunsdojo kind of sucks on slow internet and a lot of times doesn't even load the animation. Like, it would just buffer forever, and reloading won't help. At least, that's in my experience. So I'd rather have the animations load just like how they always have (with a preloader), but if you're planning on a player already then I guess it can't be helped.
--

I don't actively participate or even pay attention to RHG as much as I did when I first joined this community, but I have to admit you're getting me hyped even for that. An automatized system, and even an official RHG universe with its own timeline, will surely make RHG a more interesting concept as it already is to the target audience. And I don't animate anymore but if the tutorial system works great then hell I might just pick it back up again. I'm sure it's going to attract a lot more interest from the newer generation and it might cause an influx of great members and animators in the future, so I'm very interested in this one.


@guramecon - this is his job, so naturally he gets paid for it.

GMR
10-07-2015, 08:28 AM
Sounds good Jeff. Maybe I'm not understanding completely, but will sponsorship and submissions still be different?

Jeff
10-07-2015, 02:10 PM
Maybe you can put the client for Registered users only?
And you can ban IRC user by banning the forum account (linked rule)
speaking of IRC Client, Free Open-source client isn't trusted enough?

It's a little more complicated than that, IRC uses it's own user system and actually relies on a third party to run. I cannot simply mash the two together, though it would be nice. I have been considering just dropping my support for IRC more an more lately as people seem to be losing interest and the new SP I think will offer a better way to communicate than IRC, but I would lying if I said I didn't have a soft spot for IRC since I've been using it so long. The free open-source clients had some issues when I looked into them previously as I mentioned, but I think with all the advances lately there's bound to be one we can use now. I'm going to spend some time today looking into it because I wouldn't mind drawing more activity within the community.


Anyway about this Automated RHG System,
Does that mean we will have our own RHG page? that would be awesome

Yeah! The RHGs get their own profile of sorts and everything related to that RHG is automatically collected within that profile, so people can keep track of your RHG and make comments.


Are you get paid for your efforts? or you do this on your desire?

Both. I do get paid for it but I also want to do it. I am employed by SP and currently the only web developer so I am literally spending all day on this project Monday to Friday. I think I've been working on SP officially for about 4 months now doing this. It's why I am able to implement all these features, I have a generous amount of time to dedicate to the project and control over every level of development. Pretty much my ideal situation at the moment :P


God I hope this completely eliminates those long ass credits that people like to bloat their animations with. Like seriously, they'd add another song that would just make the file size unnecessarily bigger.

Maybe I should add a way to "thank" other members as well :P


Suggestion: Would you be able to like, make some kind of preloader for all animations? This way, there would be no need to add preloaders into the animations themselves, and animators can just upload their animation and the preloader would automatically be there. It's just that some animators would forget to put one, and their animations play automatically. It gets worse when they put that code thing that removes the right click so you won't be able to press the rewind button. I hate this because I usually put loading animations on the side and do something else, so when I'm done I can go back and the animation would have already fully loaded.

A player would probably give the same benefit and even allow a lot more functionality, but idk the player on hyunsdojo kind of sucks on slow internet and a lot of times doesn't even load the animation. Like, it would just buffer forever, and reloading won't help. At least, that's in my experience. So I'd rather have the animations load just like how they always have (with a preloader), but if you're planning on a player already then I guess it can't be helped.

I haven't locked in the upload workflow yet on SP, but I have considered what you've mentioned. One of the issues I am facing right now is the inevitability of Flash Player's death in the browser. How should I plan for that? Right now the least I can do is make sure the site doesn't rely on Flash's existence to survive. The portal like Dojo's is going to support Flash and video uploads, and the video player will be made using HTML5 technology but I am hesitant to build tools that alter Flash files if Flash support will just be dropped in a year or so anyway.

Also in my experience altering Flash files can often have unexpected results. On Dojo I had created a feature that allowed you to control the volume of any flash file, but we had to disable it because the alterations it made inconsistently broke SWFs made for specific versions of Flash Player. I'm also a little hesitant to introduce a forced preloader in case someone already has a preloader they made, I'd rather not neuter any amount of work put into a project. I do not have a reliable way to detect existing preloaders.

We'll definitely have some preloaders anyone can use, and there are features we are planning that may actually eliminate the need to worry about Flash, but those are still up in the air. I think a player of sorts for Flash content would be a good idea, perhaps we may end up forcing our own preloading system any way just for consistency. We'll see, but these are good things to consider. I am focusing a lot on the delivery of the new site's experience, and speed is one of those things I am putting a lot of work into. I know how frustrating it is to wait for videos on Dojo to download, they don't have the same infrastructure we do so when you access their files they come from a small server in the US. On SP we have a global Content Delivery Network that will send you a copy of the file from the nearest server to your country, and I have put a lot of work into compression settings for video files so that they are able to be sent faster over the network. With this kind of streaming media latency will always be an issue, and I'm certainly not a team of computer scientists working for YouTube, but I think I will be able to develop something that is reasonably fast.


Sounds good Jeff. Maybe I'm not understanding completely, but will sponsorship and submissions still be different?

They will use the same basic system but they will be treated differently. I'm not sure what an example would be to describe this, the view page for both types will look pretty much the same, sponsored content will just be put into it's own section like how it is now on SP's main site.

guramecon
10-07-2015, 02:26 PM
We'll definitely have some preloaders anyone can use, and there are features we are planning that may actually eliminate the need to worry about Flash, but those are still up in the air.

I think you should add Resources Page, so users can download the preloaders, sfxs, etc. more easier (like Newgrounds)

Jeff
10-07-2015, 04:10 PM
I put up a new page for IRC accessible using the top navigation. Hopefully that will help generate more activity! I made some changes to the Adelais server so that we can just use Kiwi IRC. Seems to work well.

Hewitt
10-07-2015, 09:03 PM
Hey Jeff, would you by any chance allow the ability to upload Unity-stuff? Seeing as it's free these days, it might be a future Flash-alternative that isn't Pivot and its picking up steam lately anyway.

Also, lovin' the IRC tab. I can finally get in there from work. If necessary.

The RHG universe idea sounds rad, but my fear is that it will have to be persistent and constant in order to work. I know it's an optional endeavor; I'm not talking about that. A "universe with its own growing story" implies that it ought to be maintained and updated regularly otherwise it'll stagnate when left alone. Currently, there is little to no maintenance and it seems to serve more good than harm because of its simplicity. But what you're pitching reminds me of RHG Territories, and that sort of failed spectacularly. Why? Because it hinged on one guy (and a couple of helpers) to maintain a certain resource and when stone went busy for a long while, the plan sort of just died. Is it going to be like that again but on a massive scale?

Jeff
10-07-2015, 10:21 PM
I don't think so. The Unity web player isn't currently in a state where I would feel comfortable implementing it. The alternative for them is their push for HTML5 output, which I may implement but it's also not quite there.

Obviously I cannot predict the future, so I won't promise that an active RHG universe will remain a persistent thing on the site. It may well fail spectacularly in unpredictable ways, but the fact is that the old RHG is getting incredibly stale and falling apart. People are clamouring for something fresh so we're trying some bold new ideas out that we've put a lot of thought and work into, and we think everyone is going to like them. I don't believe the issues that plagued RHG Territories will apply to what we're doing. RHGT required much more involvement than our system, which is the benefit of making everything automated. I think that's something to keep in mind, because this system doesn't need the same level of oversight and intervention so priorities are shifted towards this extra creative work. Even if that creative work fails, the system will chug on. That's partly why we're crafting the universe in an ambiguous way, so the entire system doesn't fall apart without it. There will always be something to do with RHG.

Let me make it clear that obviously I am referring to a worst case scenario. We don't expect to mess this up or ditch it, this overhaul of RHG is part of a real attempt to pump some life into the creative side of this community. We have been planning it out carefully because we've learned from all the mistakes that were made in the past. I've built tools to assist the directors of RHG in managing the universe, so it's not very much work for us to keep track of what's going on and make notes for the future or set up events and stuff like that. It can be brought together in the same manner as competitions, and those were run fine for a while before I was brought in. So I really don't think there's cause for concern as I've done a lot to prevent the same mistakes, but I can see why anyone would read this and worry based on history. It's going to be another one of those times where the only thing I can say at this point is that you'll have to trust that we got this, especially since this is actually our full time job now and not just a side hobby like it has been previously.

I feel like if it seems like we're not paying enough attention to the site you should remember that I'm building an entire new one, so there's not much value in spending a lot of time on something that will be replaced in the foreseeable future. We aren't all over the forum RHG at the moment because something far better is going to replace it soon.

Apex-Predator
10-08-2015, 04:05 AM
I think you should add Resources Page, so users can download the preloaders, sfxs, etc. more easier (like Newgrounds)

There are already threads for that, but I can see the upside to it having it's own page where the links don't have to be updated all the time.

guramecon
10-08-2015, 04:30 AM
There are already threads for that, but I can see the upside to it having it's own page where the links don't have to be updated all the time.

I mean the official one, you know.. I don't see the Official Stickpage Preloader (by Phil) thread get sticked in the Resources Section
and also the links are dead

MasterKaito
10-08-2015, 05:39 PM
What's the SP IRC channel?

guramecon
10-08-2015, 05:58 PM
What's the SP IRC channel?

address : irc.adelais.net
channel : #stickpage

Hewitt
10-08-2015, 07:59 PM
It's going to be another one of those times where the only thing I can say at this point is that you'll have to trust that we got this, especially since this is actually our full time job now and not just a side hobby like it has been previously.

I trust you man, we all do. You've done and been doing so much for this place, it's hard not to say that you will do everything to make RHG better, and work on it when Plan A fails. I guess I was just trying to poke your brain because I can't imagine what the scheme would look like and can only draw on RHGT as a historical milestone in RHG development.

Kegman
10-10-2015, 04:06 PM
hey jeff

Mantiscore
10-10-2015, 04:06 PM
hey jeff

GMR
10-10-2015, 04:25 PM
'sup Jeff

Hewitt
10-28-2015, 06:39 PM
Hey Jeff I was wondering, you've been also talking about integration with the SE section in this forum. Will the new forum actually do so? Or will SE still be its own cul-de-sac?

Also, there's this recent drama recently concerning "SE Mods" that aren't SE Forum Mods. Normally, they should be treated as their own entity and shouldn't meddle with this forum's politics, but recent events are affecting it to the point that it is derailing entire threads and inciting flame wars on either side (will PM you about specifics later). My question is, should there be a way to officially sire them on this forum on some capacity? Like at least give them the cave to discuss things in private. Because I feel like the current drama could've been avoided if one "Mod" just communicated himself better with the rest.

Jeff
10-28-2015, 08:23 PM
I'm not sure yet. The SE section will get some kind of treatment which will certainly outline their place as a somewhat separate community better than it is now, but the specifics remain to be seen. I have at least 2 different options on it but there's no saying for sure until we progress further.

As for the drama I am aware of it, I am simply at a loss for any course of action. I am in a weird spot where I have to run our community - the animation community - while having a completely unrelated subcommunity I am not a part of shoehorned in the middle of it for reasons I cannot control. Not only that but I have 0 say in the game that is forcing the subcommunity to be where it is. Were it up to me I would have given Stick War it's own forum on the official website and appointed trustworthy people to act as both forum and chat mods so that the community could remain consistent on both platforms. The only thing I can do at this point is appoint mods to cover our forum rules and occasionally relay information to the relevant parties. I cannot step in since their issue has to do with something outside of my reach. Unfortunately I am not very trusting as I have not gotten to know any of the SE chat mods well enough to be comfortable with them having mod status or influence over the rest of the site and the only thing I really see from them are behaviours I wouldn't want our mods to have. That's pretty much why my plan in the upgrade is to give them that better infrastructure to handle their own issues in a way more consistent with the game. Until then I am just not sure what to do. I've already let relevant parties know, so to me it's just a matter of waiting for someone who can help to step in.

Hewitt
10-28-2015, 08:30 PM
Well its great that you have your ear on the ground (saves me from having to PM it). I was actually at a loss as to what you could do, sad as it is. Glad that you're taking steps at least.

I normally don't bother with that place, but the recent event has become very toxic all because 1 guy made a bad mod decision and the other guy wouldn't stop complaining about it.

Scarecrow
10-29-2015, 01:52 AM
my two cents: for the sanity of your long-term members please for the love of fuck keep the SE kids in their own containment zone

GMR
10-29-2015, 08:32 AM
That would be helpful as well, Jeff. I'm not sure merging SE with the normal forum is a great idea. Any reason why you would?

Apex-Predator
10-29-2015, 08:47 AM
I don't understand why people are having an issue with this. I mean why not? They are not a bunch of outcasts that don't deserve to be in the general forums.

Jeff
10-29-2015, 10:20 AM
That would be helpful as well, Jeff. I'm not sure merging SE with the normal forum is a great idea. Any reason why you would?

It's not a good idea, I'm not sure where this question is coming from? There's no reason I would personally, the point of my last post was highlighting that I want to give them a better place for their community by finding a way to comfortably distinguish themselves. I'm sure the players within that community would much rather have the official forums be tailored to them.


I don't understand why people are having an issue with this. I mean why not? They are not a bunch of outcasts that don't deserve to be in the general forums.

It's because they're a gaming community. For me it's not about them being outcasts, it's about proper representation. It's very confusing for a lot of newcomers to that game because it links to this entire forum as "the official Stick Empires forums". These forums are supposed to foster creative types, and are set up to cater to them. I often see people posting outside of the SE section with SE questions or comments which is a problem because it's irrelevant to the larger community and doesn't give them the support they need. There are always things we can do to compensate but it's better for everyone to give them their own proper space where they are better represented.

GMR
10-29-2015, 10:46 AM
Oh, right. Sorry, from reading the other posts I figured you wanted to merge them.

Does seem logical that they would get their own forums or better representation though.

Apex-Predator
10-30-2015, 02:36 AM
It's because they're a gaming community. For me it's not about them being outcasts, it's about proper representation. It's very confusing for a lot of newcomers to that game because it links to this entire forum as "the official Stick Empires forums". These forums are supposed to foster creative types, and are set up to cater to them. I often see people posting outside of the SE section with SE questions or comments which is a problem because it's irrelevant to the larger community and doesn't give them the support they need. There are always things we can do to compensate but it's better for everyone to give them their own proper space where they are better represented.

Alright, I guess in that sense it would be appropriate.
JEFF, What have you done with your posts lol (talking about the multicoloured gif effect).

Jeff
11-10-2015, 03:34 PM
For those that care Stone and I are working on some time-sensitive tasks at the moment so I haven't had time to collect my thoughts from the last month, I'll be making another update post soon. I'm hoping to get my current work finished and released before I write up a post so that I can talk a bit about what I did and how I accomplished it. It's a sub-project for the new update, but not the update itself. It's something we're going to release before the new update along with the next GTL competition, soon after Stone's work on his adventure game finishes.

Unbounded
11-11-2015, 01:41 PM
What does "soon" mean in Jeffspeak? Gettng a little excited.

GMR
11-11-2015, 03:20 PM
Woooooo! Can't wait for this still. Hopefully this happens soon. :D

Hewitt
11-11-2015, 08:03 PM
Leave the man to his work, guys.

Jeff
11-12-2015, 12:36 AM
Most likely within the next week or two, but obviously I cannot make that a guarantee. Stone's estimating he'll finish some time next week and I'm aiming my project for the end of next week, plus the time we need to set up GTL. If all that goes accordingly it'll be end of next week or the week after. :)

Unbounded
11-15-2015, 09:39 PM
Most likely within the next week or two, but obviously I cannot make that a guarantee. Stone's estimating he'll finish some time next week and I'm aiming my project for the end of next week, plus the time we need to set up GTL. If all that goes accordingly it'll be end of next week or the week after. :)

Sweeeeet. I'm looking forward to it!

Jeff
11-17-2015, 01:20 PM
This is something separate from what I was mentioning, but it's been a long time coming: The StickPage Roadmap (http://roadmap.stickpage.com/) has been officially released! I will be posting links to articles I make there from now on.

GMR
11-17-2015, 03:02 PM
Looks great, thanks Jeff.

Unbounded
11-18-2015, 07:51 AM
This is something separate from what I was mentioning, but it's been a long time coming: The StickPage Roadmap (http://roadmap.stickpage.com/) has been officially released! I will be posting links to articles I make there from now on.

Sweeeeeet.

Stickpage 2015 hype!

apielang
11-19-2015, 12:53 AM
Awesome update, can't wait for the next generation of Stickpage and RHG!

Hewitt
12-07-2015, 09:23 PM
Hey Jeff I don't know if you notice this, but recently there have been approx. 15-26 "Guests" viewing both the Chat Thread and any bumped Thread in the general section. I refuse to believe this place is that popular. I think they're bots. Harmless bots yes, but kinda creepy in that all 15-26 just move as a hive mind instead of spreading around.

Just pointing it out.

Devour
12-07-2015, 11:38 PM
I like to think its Hyuns Dojo lurkers who are too shy to come and say hi :o

Hewitt
12-07-2015, 11:46 PM
How insensitive!

They could also be Pivoters from Stykz

Jeff
12-08-2015, 09:35 AM
It's not bots. StickPage is still very popular in terms of visitors, we get more than most other animation sites day-to-day. I watch our stats and trends fairly closely so I am aware of our current audience and how they use the site. The active community is really what is suffering. I wouldn't conflate the lack of active users with a general disinterest in this site. The number of people that come here for entertainment only and choose to lurk is much higher than the active community ever gets.

EDIT: Also I should mention Stone has vanished on me so I'm currently waiting on him for what I was talking about previously. I have no idea what's going on there, but this is one of the reasons I don't like giving definite dates for things. Sometimes there's circumstances beyond my control. It's also why I think I'm happier working on the new SP mostly on my own because for the majority of the work there's less chance that something will go wrong outside of my control.

Hewitt
12-08-2015, 07:02 PM
It's just hard to believe, I guess this site's achievements are paying off, no?

Also, thanks for updating us on stone's status. Alot of people have been asking that about him.

Unbounded
01-02-2016, 01:08 AM
I'm not sure if it's info that could be shared or anything, but is there any word on Stone/did that whole thing ever get sorted?

Jeff
01-06-2016, 12:49 PM
New update: http://roadmap.stickpage.com/what-happened-in-december-and-stickpage-in-2016/

@Unbounded Stone went MIA on me, I know he had to stop working on the stuff I mentioned in order to focus on a game deadline for SP but I haven't seen much of him through the last month. I talk about it in the above post if you're wondering what the status is on all that.

Smile
01-06-2016, 04:39 PM
Still don't understand all the technical stuff but I still love reading these.

Dibs on the beta testing

Apex-Predator
01-09-2016, 11:44 AM
It all sounds good Jeff, I hope you guys can resume on the sidetracked project soon. The database itself seems intricate but overall I think it'll be a blast navigating the new website.

Externus
01-09-2016, 12:25 PM
Dibs on beta testing

Apex-Predator
01-09-2016, 12:38 PM
Oh I forgot, Dibs on beta testing ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

Vorpal
01-09-2016, 01:40 PM
Just keep up the good work guys.

Kodoku
01-12-2016, 03:51 PM
Hoho, So excited to be here right now! Can't believe I'll be going through the biggest change on the site since the MERGE MERGE MERGE MERGE MERGE

AwesTube
01-14-2016, 06:26 PM
Needs more screenshots...

Hewitt
01-20-2016, 08:04 PM
Rather minor suggestion but I just noticed that it takes 3 clicks to get to the bbcode page (http://forums.stickpage.com/misc.php?do=bbcode). Wouldn't it be better if this page was easily accessible up top? That would significantly reduce the amount of people asking how to put spoilers or codes and shit.

Alphaeus
01-21-2016, 08:17 PM
IDK if this is do-able, but I was thinking that is Stickpage had a "save as draft" option for posts, that would save us the trouble of using online Docs servers to do longer write-ups.

Just a thought...

Arch-Angel
01-24-2016, 12:20 PM
IDK if this is do-able, but I was thinking that is Stickpage had a "save as draft" option for posts, that would save us the trouble of using online Docs servers to do longer write-ups.

Just a thought...

Typically if your post is going to be long enough where you're worried about having to rewrite it in case you accidentally have an autism attack and alt+F4 your browser, then chances are you've already typed it up in Word or notepad or something. The forum does automatically save your drafts when typing a post, and in order to access them you can click the "Go Advanced" button and on the bottom left there will be a button that restores the auto-saved content.

Another suggestion/question for you, Jeff. I know that it is possible to extend the inbox space for normal users, so why must we be smitten with the 50 messages limit? I feel like upping the limit to 100 like moderators have would be pretty cool. Is it possible on a technical level or is it the way it is because of how much strain it might put on the server or something? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere, senpai.

Not_Nish
01-28-2016, 11:44 AM
I was actually going to bring up the same thing Arch did but I wasn't sure if that was just the way things were set up after a discussion. 100 messages would be cool. Over a period of 6 years, I've had to delete a lot of messages that held some value to me. Of course, I could (and do) save them on notepad or take a screenshot but it would be cool if the messages could remain in the inbox. If its not do-able, then I don't think I'd lose sleep over it, but I think it'll be a cool bonus to have that space.

GMR
01-28-2016, 01:00 PM
I'd also like to offer my support in favor of that option.

More inbox space would be cool.

Jeff
01-28-2016, 01:06 PM
I've updated the stored message allotments as follows:

Admins, Mods, Super Mods, Core Team Mods: 10,000 (it's always been this way, one of the groups had it set to 0 for some reason so I'm just normalizing these)
Ex-Mods: 500 (as thanks for past help)
Privileged Regular Members: 300
Regular Members: 200

If this causes too much stress on the server I may have to scale it back.

Apex-Predator
01-28-2016, 01:11 PM
Privileged Regular Members: 300

^ this is a thing?

Mantha
01-28-2016, 01:14 PM
May I ask what Privileged Regular Members are? Seems like I got 300. Are those the ones who usually get Senior Member under the name?

This is very generous, thank you. I haven't been able to delete some of the PMs from years ago because I'm a sap. Hopefully the server holds up.

Jeff
01-28-2016, 01:15 PM
Yeah it's part of vBulletin, I don't remember off hand how users get upgraded to that category but it's automatic based on activity. There's only like 260 people in it right now I think.

Not_Nish
01-28-2016, 01:26 PM
This is amazing. Thanks Jeff, and thanks Arch for bringing it up.

Jeff
01-28-2016, 02:14 PM
You're welcome. If anyone is interested it's 1000 posts to become privileged.

GMR
01-28-2016, 03:17 PM
WOOO! More inbox space! Thanks a lot, Jeff. c: (And so fast at responding, too. :O)

Xate
02-04-2016, 09:22 PM
All hail the 200+ inbox space.

Scarecrow
02-04-2016, 09:27 PM
I've updated the stored message allotments as follows:

Admins, Mods, Super Mods, Core Team Mods: 10,000 (it's always been this way, one of the groups had it set to 0 for some reason so I'm just normalizing these)
Ex-Mods: 500 (as thanks for past help)
Privileged Regular Members: 300
Regular Members: 200

If this causes too much stress on the server I may have to scale it back.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqq9Ovz_9c

_Ai_
02-05-2016, 04:06 AM
If someone who has a long signature PMs you, the See More thingy doesn't work. It shows the long signature.

Drizzle
02-05-2016, 04:34 AM
Ai will then be super privileged regular member thanks to his endless contribution.

Jeff
02-05-2016, 10:15 AM
If someone who has a long signature PMs you, the See More thingy doesn't work. It shows the long signature.

It's not supposed to since the PM will only have one signature at a time. I added it to the forums to prevent threads from being too tall and taking for ever to scroll down.

Scarecrow
02-05-2016, 10:21 AM
It's not supposed to since the PM will only have one signature at a time. I added it to the forums to prevent threads from being too tall and taking for ever to scroll down.

is it possible to allow spoilers to bypass the signature size limits after they're expanded? then it's kinda opt-in to see huge sigs

Jeff
02-05-2016, 10:48 AM
is it possible to allow spoilers to bypass the signature size limits after they're expanded? then it's kinda opt-in to see huge sigs

You mean like, if someone has a spoiler in their sig above the fold and I click to open it, it will automatically expand the signature? I could look at doing that, wouldn't be too hard.

Not_Nish
02-05-2016, 11:36 AM
Hey Jeff, sorry if this is a repeat question. But is the 'Like' button option still going to be a part of the new Stickpage format? I remember you talking about it earlier but I'm not sure if you had reached a conclusion yet?

Jeff
02-05-2016, 11:49 AM
I added that signature functionality. It will expand the signature only if it's collapsed and you click a spoiler that's visible. Once it's open you have to click "Show Less" to collapse the signature again. I did it this way so that a signature with multiple spoilers wont collapse the signature every time you hide one. Check out Xate's current sig in this thread for an example.


Hey Jeff, sorry if this is a repeat question. But is the 'Like' button option still going to be a part of the new Stickpage format? I remember you talking about it earlier but I'm not sure if you had reached a conclusion yet?

Yeah some people were asking about this recently. I think it's a good idea, I haven't decided 100% on how I'll implement it - I'm torn between using likes, upvotes/downvotes, or some kind of label where it could represent how people feel about a post more specifically (Like this post, Helpful post, Garbage post, Disagree with post, etc.). I'll do something, unless some people have a problem with a system like that in general in which case I'm open to discussion. I know some people think "likes" are impersonal and can prevent discussion but at the same time they can also promote more feedback from users who otherwise would do or say nothing. I think I'd rather go ahead with an implementation and let the data dictate whether or not that feature stays.

Not_Nish
02-05-2016, 11:58 AM
I'll give you my opinion. I don't know if downvotes are the way to go because I think it might sometimes discourage people from expressing themselves clearly due to fear that they will be publicly downvoted (which is akin to ridicule). But I do think the 'like' system could be really useful. Especially because people wouldn't feel the need to quote something anymore just to say "Lol that was funny" or "Good point dude" and I also think its a good way of new members warming up to each other. I also think it could be invaluable to the animation section or the RHG gang or the writers lounge. A lot of people don't take time out to give some CnC or feedback, but clicking the 'like' button would be an easy way of showing approval, and over time, we would know which the most popular animations or animation styles are. It will also provide encouragement to creators when their RHGs or Animations or Stories get 'likes' as opposed to some who get absolutely no feedback on their work.

Alphaeus
02-05-2016, 12:34 PM
I agree with Nish.

Don't do any downvotes or anything like that...keep it just positive. Obviously, if you don't like something...you didn't...like it. Self-explanatory there. But deliberately downvoting can -- except within very small groups of friends -- become quickly discouraging to people who post, while at the same time encouraging haters and trollers.

Apex-Predator
02-06-2016, 02:36 PM
So, only up-votes? Might as well not have both.

Jeff
02-06-2016, 03:36 PM
Those are all good points that I will have to consider. I appreciate the feedback! I'd like to take some time in the near future to examine the data behind each system's effect on a community if I can, hopefully I can find some published articles about it. I know upvotes/downvotes are contentious on popular sites that use them like Reddit, so I have some insight to that kind of thing already just by reading comments on there. I also need to decide how I'm going to set up ranking for the different media that the new site will accept, since the portal system will have animations, games, literature & comics which a simple like-only system is not good for due to the requirement of ranking content. They will need to be separated in the database. I've read articles from YouTube engineers about why they dropped the 5-star ranking system at YouTube, so I'm aware of the comparison between like/dislike and 1-5. I still need to look in to all the options at my disposal, though. While finalizing the database design of the new SP I'm also building a lot of tools that let us do more in-depth analysis on the community than is currently possible, so maybe during the beta I will do A/B testing or periods with each to see not only how people feel about each but also what the data shows.

Scarecrow
02-14-2016, 08:14 PM
I added that signature functionality. It will expand the signature only if it's collapsed and you click a spoiler that's visible. Once it's open you have to click "Show Less" to collapse the signature again. I did it this way so that a signature with multiple spoilers wont collapse the signature every time you hide one. Check out Xate's current sig in this thread for an example.

nice! thanks for that.

Mantha
02-15-2016, 12:46 AM
That sounds like the reputation system which SP already had one time. It resembled the classical structure of reps I've seen on other forums. It includes upvotes and downvotes but normally people didn't downvote serially like that, and it was against the rules to gang up on one person like that. No one was actually discouraged from posting just because of the system either.

Devour
02-15-2016, 12:52 AM
Didn't it cause a heck of a lot of elitism though? I wasn't around for it but that's what I heard from lots of people

Mantha
02-15-2016, 12:55 AM
Early 2005 StickPage rep system ended up being abused, and once you passed a certain theshold you got access to a secret forum which was... special. For insance there was a thread for posting funny pictures and ANYONE who posted got more rep.

I've observed the system on the other forums and it was just fine. In the end it all depends on how the staff handles it.

The SP community as it is nowadays is a lot less wild. I think it's plausible.

Phaxtolgia
02-15-2016, 01:00 AM
Early 2005 StickPage rep system ended up being abused, and once you passed a certain theshold you got access to a secret forum which was... special. For insance there was a thread for posting funny pictures and ANYONE who posted got more rep.

I've observed the system on the other forums and it was just fine. In the end it all depends on how the staff handles it.

The SP community as it is nowadays is a lot less wild. I think it's plausible.
...A secret forum? What did it exactly consist of? >.>

Mantha
02-15-2016, 01:02 AM
Oh, nothing too grand. It was just the shitpost place for 'elite members'. I'm glad it died.

Phaxtolgia
02-15-2016, 01:04 AM
Oh, nothing too grand. It was just the shitpost place for 'elite members'. I'm glad it died.
Well then. XD

I wonder what other forum still runs this idea.

Mantha
02-15-2016, 01:05 AM
The secret forum thing? It's not a common practice on other forums, as much as I've seen. I've actually never seen anyone do that, lol.

Not_Nish
02-15-2016, 01:17 AM
I honestly don't think downvotes will ever be a good idea here because people WILL abuse them eventually.

Phaxtolgia
02-15-2016, 01:21 AM
I honestly don't think downvotes will ever be a good idea here because people WILL abuse them eventually.
There's a forum that expanded a lot with the voting system, but was really easily abused. The admin then removed the dislike button, but that didn't fix anything. Instead abusers used the forum's diverse voting advantage and used the "funny" vote as a dislike. The admin got frustrated by this, and reverted to a single like voting system.

Mantha
02-15-2016, 01:31 AM
I honestly don't think downvotes will ever be a good idea here because people WILL abuse them eventually.

Like I said, it all depends on the staff and how well they will regulate that. Rule-breaking will always happen, rep system or not. The frequency of that depends on the mods.


There's a forum that expanded a lot with the voting system, but was really easily abused. The admin then removed the dislike button, but that didn't fix anything. Instead abusers used the forum's diverse voting advantage and used the "funny" vote as a dislike. The admin got frustrated by this, and reverted to a single like voting system.

That's pretty bad, lmao.

Phaxtolgia
02-15-2016, 09:06 AM
Like I said, it all depends on the staff and how well they will regulate that. Rule-breaking will always happen, rep system or not. The frequency of that depends on the mods.

-snip-

That's pretty bad, lmao.
Top it off with a community as toxic as League (or possibly worse,) and that's basically the results. :L

Scarecrow
02-26-2016, 06:42 PM
i noticed youtube embeds use the HTML5 player now. was that your doing jeff?

Jeff
02-29-2016, 12:37 PM
Nah, YouTube is moving away from Flash in general I think it's a long time coming for them. I should have looked in to forcing it earlier. Also just a heads up I've done some spring cleaning of the mods during what is officially a transition phase for SP. There was nothing wrong with any of them aside from activity, so the least active ones have been moved to the ex-mods category for the time being. I also brought on Mantha as a global mod to help keep things in check around here during this time. I'm around but not actively moderating anything, all of my time right now is focused on getting SP ready. I haven't done a post for the last month because it's been kind of a hectic couple of months. I have 3 partially written posts but 2016 has had a crazy start for me both personally and work wise so I just haven't found time or energy to finish them off. I will try to find the time to finish those off early in the month now that I'm back to ONLY working on SP.

GMR
02-29-2016, 07:33 PM
Woho! We should get the new SP soon then, is what you're saying?


Lookin' forward to it.

Raptor
02-29-2016, 08:52 PM
I know I'm a bit late to responding to some of this, but I'll do it anyway.


The secret forum thing? It's not a common practice on other forums, as much as I've seen. I've actually never seen anyone do that, lol.
It's certainly not an uncommon practice. Lots of forums I've been to have some sort of secret forum. Hell, even reddit has a secret forum thing in the form of reddit gold.

As someone who has been in a few, it's not a terrible idea in practice, but it tends to work better (if at all) in bigger communities. It's probably redundant and unnecessary considering SP's size, and that still doesn't take into account the possible elitism that can result from it. So yeah, definitely agree that we shouldn't have a secret forum thingy.


I honestly don't think downvotes will ever be a good idea here because people WILL abuse them eventually.
Let's never do downvotes. Nothing good comes from them anyway. If someone makes a bad post, that's why the report function exists.

I don't mind upvotes though, I think it acts as another way of posting (with a like being interpreted as "that was funny" or "I agree") that prevents unnecessary posts. It can have the same negative effects as downvoting, but at least it has a separate function. I've seen it implemented in plenty of forums with just upvotes/likes, and it's worked fine for the most part from what I've seen.


To be honest though, SP is fine the way it is, but if we do need to change, this is just my opinion.

Scarecrow
02-29-2016, 09:00 PM
I also brought on Mantha as a global mod to help keep things in check around here during this time

oh shit, strap yourselves in kids

GuardianTempest
03-04-2016, 08:16 PM
Yo Jeff, keep up the good work. Take your time to get things ideal, massive web development's a tough task ahead.

Arch-Angel
03-12-2016, 02:06 PM
Guys, I heard Jeff is building us a firewall and 4Chan is paying for it!

Azure
03-12-2016, 02:07 PM
Cool! Next, he can let users delete their posts again.

Chromium7
03-13-2016, 01:27 AM
Guys, I heard Jeff is building us a firewall and 4Chan is paying for it!

Hey, sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm genuinely curious. Who is this "4chan" and why does he/she want to build a wall?

GMR
03-13-2016, 01:58 PM
http://www.4chan.org/

Delve into the magic.

Or don't, they're pretty toxic there.

Not_Nish
03-15-2016, 02:25 AM
Hey, sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm genuinely curious. Who is this "4chan" and why does he/she want to build a wall?

Its the Great Wall of Chana.

http://rs1187.pbsrc.com/albums/z389/aamt90/Varios/YaoMingReal.png~c200

Drizzle
03-16-2016, 11:02 AM
Hey, sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm genuinely curious. Who is this "4chan" and why does he/she want to build a wall?

It's Donald Trump.

Hewitt
04-10-2016, 08:26 PM
Why is the color picker for text posts, gone? It's not like anyone was abusing that thing. I don't want to have to manually type [*color*] is all.