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PUMU
04-02-2015, 10:54 PM
Nowadays my chaos is able to compete with 2.3k order players with relative ease. My macro timing for jugs hustle and ranged might be off a bit but my micro compensates. The Prob I have vs order is when the order player uses their statue as a tank. With decent micro the order player can push out and sweep the giant tanks in late game with relative ease.
What I need is a rundown on exactly when I should be placing miners on mana. When I should tech into hustle as chaos. An explanation on when to use the charge ability. And perhaps on how to stall effectively as chaos.

Nyarlathotep
04-03-2015, 12:12 PM
Just get giants. They'll stop order giants from doing anything while you're free to keep using your deads and medusas to kill the statue.

HashBrownTrials
04-03-2015, 03:40 PM
The questions is..why are you letting the order player make giants? Chaos is an offensive empire and they like to be on the attack. You shouldn't let the order player build up, just destroy them early game.

Just wondering, can you beat my order?

PUMU
04-03-2015, 04:45 PM
Lol wut? I meet said giants.
Chaos giants are basically nothing to a wall and archer spam to oblivion.
The problem for me is when I can't hit the huge threat of archers and possibly magikills as they his behind the most likely resilienced Statue

Nyarlathotep
04-03-2015, 04:51 PM
Just. Get. Deads. Massed archers won't be able to touch them. Once you get out giants there won't be any room to stall.

HashBrownTrials
04-03-2015, 05:23 PM
Oh, maybe I missed the point.. oh well still good info.

PUMU
04-03-2015, 05:50 PM
Ya don't think I made that decision?
Of course I went deads. However they simply hid behind the statue and stalled with the assistance of the ca's.

Nyarlathotep
04-04-2015, 01:01 AM
At that point you wait outside the CA range and deny them economy. If you die to CA you're just being impatient.

Mystery
04-04-2015, 08:42 AM
use giant mass to counter giant mass :)

PUMU
04-04-2015, 09:13 AM
Lol. What giants?
@rain. That gives them first row eco. Allowing them to continue building. I'm at max army and i don't want to lose the advantage. And if I let them build they can still stall in base until they feel like coming out. Even after ts2

Mystery
04-04-2015, 09:55 AM
Lol. What giants?
@rain. That gives them first row eco. Allowing them to continue building. I'm at max army and i don't want to lose the advantage. And if I let them build they can still stall in base until they feel like coming out. Even after ts2

just get 8 chaos giants . Once you make them in opponent's base, auto-gg XD
the OP AoE rekts people

PUMU
04-04-2015, 11:22 AM
i will try that.
I have full faith that the enemy will allow me the time. It's like cycloid tornado but really really slow.

Nyarlathotep
04-04-2015, 08:58 PM
Lol. What giants?
@rain. That gives them first row eco. Allowing them to continue building. I'm at max army and i don't want to lose the advantage. And if I let them build they can still stall in base until they feel like coming out. Even after ts2

It doesn't give them first row if you have any tanks. That is why you'd build a giant, but even tower spawn juggers are sufficient usually to just keep pressuring their statue.

PUMU
04-05-2015, 08:44 AM
Their Army is still a factor in this. Using their own tanks to protect their first row whilst I cannot touch them without walking into the fray still leaving me unable to not be affected by the ca's and archer range. If they have nothing guarding their front row I could see that.

Skeletonxf
04-05-2015, 10:25 AM
I know what you mean. Sometimes you get into a scenario where you can't dps down their front line to keep them off the second row.
This gives you some options.

Out tank them and stay under CA for as long as needed to break the front row, or tech into better dps. The latter option gradually becomes unuseful the stronger your opponent's turtle gets. Another consideration is walking in Medusas or Marrowkai behind your ghost and using their spell casts to apply some pressure on your opponent in spite of their front line.

Mystery
04-05-2015, 10:36 AM
in my experience, chaos giant + wings cannot win pure order giants with meric support

the best chaos build is to use every single advanced unit

Wing + dead+ giant + medusa +marrowkai, this will be the most balanced and best build :)
Hope this helps

PUMU
04-05-2015, 01:16 PM
At first I thought you were gonna say one of every. One bomb one crawler one jug one dead one wing one giant one marrow one medusa and somehow al supported by one miner.
So I simply ignore the archer mass?
Not sure why one hell fist row directly doesn't kill a large portion of the archers.

Skeletonxf
04-05-2015, 03:14 PM
Not sure why one hell fist row directly doesn't kill a large portion of the archers.
It does if you have a good hit with it going down or up the screen diagonally.

PUMU
04-05-2015, 09:25 PM
Why not in a line? Doesn't that seem a bit much to have to angle your hell fists which actually makes it so that the marrow has to be even closer to the enemy?

Nyarlathotep
04-05-2015, 09:30 PM
Not really. It doesn't HAVE to be a super-steep angle to kill a lot of archers.

PUMU
04-06-2015, 12:47 AM
Mind showing replays of marrow aoe wreckage so I may understand better?

Skeletonxf
04-06-2015, 06:22 AM
Basically you aim it just like you do for Magikill

PUMU
04-06-2015, 06:46 AM
Magikill doesn't even require aim lol. I could spray in the general direction of the enemy with poison spray and catch a huge portion of the army. Elec wall is pretty straight foward to as the hitbox is fixed. Blast stays the same no matter where it is.
Marrow hell fists changing angles, inferno random meteor pool land placement, v possess, medusa stone face, all require more aim then magikill

Mystery
04-06-2015, 09:33 AM
Magikill doesn't even require aim lol. I could spray in the general direction of the enemy with poison spray and catch a huge portion of the army. Elec wall is pretty straight foward to as the hitbox is fixed. Blast stays the same no matter where it is.
Marrow hell fists changing angles, inferno random meteor pool land placement, v possess, medusa stone face, all require more aim then magikill

lol i mained order for one year and I still feel poison spray hard to aim

And marrowkai hell first does not do enough damage in my mind lol
I honestly think blast(0mana) of magkill is better than hell fist

jerrytt
04-06-2015, 08:52 PM
I honestly think blast(0mana) of magkill is better than hell fist

Im sure anyone would trade blast for hell fist any day lol. Insane amount of damage, larger hitbox, slightly slower, but not by an unreasonable amount. Does blast even kill archers?

PUMU
04-06-2015, 08:56 PM
I'm gonna pretend like I didn't just read that.
Blast connecting to archers always kills archers should they be out in the open and get caught. Slightly lower dot then meteor pools

Nyarlathotep
04-07-2015, 03:41 AM
There was a point around the burn change where Blast didn't even kill crawlers, so I'd say the question is justified considering Jerry never plays.

PUMU
04-07-2015, 06:57 AM
I must've missed that time frame. My bad then for ignorance.

Sevarus
04-12-2015, 04:04 PM
Quick question

In my experinace even with perfect aim I can never kill a archer with a perfect hell fist even if all fists hit the target. The archers always seem to have a empty hp bar ( eg they are one hit from death) I believe thou that blast is a one hit kill and you don't need perfect aim (again on archer this whole point is on archers) with hell fist you have a smaller range and the chances of getting all fists to hit in small as the damage goes across a line larger than the archer to illustrate my point imagine this. (The first fist hits, the second fist hits the third fist just hits the edge of the archer and the last one misses. it is very difficult to kill a archer with one hell fist.
I imageine that balance in the spells is that you can hit front line and back line at once and that if units retreat you might catch their back legs. (Thou blast happens so quickly)

maybe a ever so slight hell fist buff is in order (Pardon the pun) to make marrowkias a slightly more competitive unit that have more uses than just luring giants?

I don't have the experiance of the majority of players here but I hope you can answer my points that is seems a little unfair that blast looks like a slightly better spell when killing archers since don't they both perfrom the same function (a damage dealing spell to damage protected units.

spino
04-12-2015, 04:56 PM
Quick question

In my experinace even with perfect aim I can never kill a archer with a perfect hell fist even if all fists hit the target. The archers always seem to have a empty hp bar ( eg they are one hit from death) I believe thou that blast is a one hit kill.

the hell fist needs to go all the way through so the archer is near the middle of your fancy casting line. In my experience blast simply gets half health then burns it down where 1-2 more hits are necessary to kill the archer. In the campaign blast insta kills though.

Sevarus
04-14-2015, 12:29 PM
Thank you I will put the archer in the middle of the line in future.

thou blast is much easier to use than hell fists

MasterKaito
04-14-2015, 01:55 PM
Thank you I will put the archer in the middle of the line in future.

thou blast is much easier to use than hell fists

how?
does you not use le hotkeys?

nutsophast
05-20-2015, 03:31 AM
I don't get it, why do you have to aim at a steep angle to be able to hit hell fists? I thought you just had to get in real close so that you'll get the maximum amount of fists on your target.

PUMU
05-20-2015, 04:21 AM
Hell fists would be better if they started where the red line begins instead of only being in the direction and angle. One could actually use it more aggressively and actually be able to utilize marrows vs archer spam. Instead of being a unit of hope.
Meaning, hoping to reaper a meric or magikill and hell fist it (sounds dirty). Or even on spears before shield wall. One would be able to keep the support caster safe whilst dealing sizeable damage to the enemy before they escape the pathetic range of hell fists or manage to retaliate against it.