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Thread: Water healing idea

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyzDM View Post
    How about make elementals like the other two empires? So like, you don't needlessly sacrifice units and then try to gauge how much each unit is worth in contrast to output in either damage or ability power before combine or consumption in respect to things like waters so it makes balancing the empire hella easy.

    Seems like a better idea to me. Buffing waters while keeping everything the way it is could prove disastrous. And if you don't know what I'm talking about when I say it's bad, you haven't seen my charrog build.
    I agree with Wyz slightly.

    Ele does have many features not previously in the game and it has broke it. Early game ele is a problem now. The relationship between Tress, Waters and Earth is wrong. Personally I do two things.


    1. Lower the gold cost of all 4 base units and vary the mana costs of the combined units varying the game play giving ele more options early game

    2. Give waters some offensive power makeing them a direct competitor of archers, crawlers and swords etc. I'd like too seem them do DOT have a lower gold cost and too balance this maybe get rid of the healing idea altogether it's useless very early game waters role late game should be combing not mass healing causing problems as discussed previously.
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  2. #12
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    Could you explain about the problem with the relationship between trees, waters, and earths? Also the early game problem.

    1. Giving elementals some early game options seems decent, but it seems like you want the 4 base elements to be THE early game units and the combinations to be the mid-late game units, I don't see the need for that. Also, if you were the developer and you were to lower the gold costs of the 4 elements, you shouldn't leave them the way they are, imagine 300 gold airs running rampant.

    2. Well, getting rid of the healing leaves no healing option for elementals besides the garrison. And my idea was to give elementals a good healing option besides the garrison. Also, what "problems" were discussed previously?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutsophast View Post
    Could you explain about the problem with the relationship between trees, waters, and earths? Also the early game problem.

    1. Giving elementals some early game options seems decent, but it seems like you want the 4 base elements to be THE early game units and the combinations to be the mid-late game units, I don't see the need for that. Also, if you were the developer and you were to lower the gold costs of the 4 elements, you shouldn't leave them the way they are, imagine 300 gold airs running rampant.

    2. Well, getting rid of the healing leaves no healing option for elementals besides the garrison. And my idea was to give elementals a good healing option besides the garrison. Also, what "problems" were discussed previously?
    Gladly I will explain what I think the problems are

    1. The very early game is boring and it is difficult for ele to compete early game.
    Mass earth is popular as they are good value for money you can stun lock and waste time. Then or at the same convert to get out of this phase and into others units which I will further explain.

    2. Yes maybe it is a personal problem and it ties in with what Wyz was saying about Ele being TOO diffrent from the other two empires.

    I don't like/don't find it viable. That a early game unit is a healing one that offers nothing on offence. Order has Archers with offer great DPS. What do Waters do? Freeze a unit? This could be good if you freeze a archer or a dead. But what's happens when their are more? If you have more than one water the healing becomes less valuable as you have many units all doing the same thing. It's not like Archers where you have decent DPS infact early game Ele lacks DPS in general.

    3. Trees. This is more complex and I'm probably not the best person too talk about it. But basicly their too easy to Mass. Have too Much HP and then late game their three scorpions are meaningless. I love the concept of them their a nice touch to SW1 (Magikill) I actually thinks death root is the best things about them. Their OP early game and then UP late game it's crazy.

    4. Let me expand on my idea to lower gold costs. By allowing fires and airs to enter the game earlier, easier and in greater numbers it wouldn't only give Ele more options early to early mid game. But also make Ele stronger early game.

    Yes this effects combinations which is why I would increase Mana costs of Combinations. Combinations should be for mid game as the base elements in their own right currently get crushed late game anyway. It would also give Ele a better tier structure seen in the other empires.

    Also scorch and blind gate have too go simple as IMO
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevarus View Post
    Gladly I will explain what I think the problems are

    The very early game is boring
    It is for every single empire in the game. .-.
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  5. #15
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    @ Professor Snape (sorry XD)

    1. I think boring is subjective. You're right when you said that it's difficult for elementals to compete for tower (I assume that's what you meant by "compete"). It would be nice to give elementals the option to defend or attack, but right now the only empire that really has that choice is order.

    But elementals should still have options in the mid-game, so the limited early game start is not much of a problem for me.

    However, I don't understand what you're trying to say by bringing up the earth start.

    I say "should" because charrogs used to be an option but now they are useless without waters, so the only option is actually trees. Useless charrogs is one of my problems with elementals.

    2. I think your problem with the water elemental stems from your thinking that the 4 base elements are strictly early game units. Don't compare waters to archers.

    And what do you mean by "if you have more than one water the healing becomes less valuable as you have many units all doing the same thing"? I'm confused because water is the only unit that can heal in elementals. Am I misunderstanding something?

    3. Trees may be easy to get but I don't think they have "too much" hp. If you get lots of swords you can cut them down easily. Another option is playing defense, trees can't get through spearton + wall + castle archer. So I think early-mid game trees can be handled.

    If it's late game and chaos or order has managed to build up giants and late game stuff, the elementals (not just trees) are in deep shit. But it depends what they build so trees aren't always UP.

    A little off topic but that is actually one of my biggest problems with elementals, being unable to defeat late game builds like a deathball.

    4. I think that would make ele too strong early game. You're making fires and airs cheaper without changing the units themselves, which I don't think is needed.

    Changing mana costs itself isn't bad, but it's directly related to the gold costs of the 4 elements.
    Last edited by nutsophast; 10-26-2016 at 12:31 AM. Reason: grammar
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVL 9001 View Post
    It is for every single empire in the game. .-.
    Let me change boring to one dimensional? What about rigid? Would you prefer repetitive? What about predictable?

    Chaos had a litteraly very explosive opening and quick moving dynamic play where you can lose or get a massive advantage in seconds.

    Order had Swords and archers and you way you use them. How you use them and in what order you buy them makes a diffrence.

    If one thing was gonna get get fixed I'd want Waters, Airs and Fires to be options early game. Maybe that means giveing them all one health bar and lower gold costs I don't know. Waters doing damage would be something I'd like too see as early game their isent massive demand for healing and their isent need for more than one water as one water will heal your completely early game.

    It just needs continual balance. I think CJ was/is going in the right direction
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