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Thread: OVO Castle: MMS Early Spear Strategy (1.8k-2k rating)

  1. #21
    A Stick Empires player ISyncErrorI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josephong View Post
    @gaismail
    Not everyone has the micro ability to do it. Esp not in the sub 2k ratings. And even if they do, there is ping to consider. With zero ping vs ai, it can work, but in non ideal conditions, you can be screwed over very easily. One wrong move/a bit of lag and you get hit, and the sword can wrestle away tower possession. Castle archer kiting is not a reliable strat.
    Like I said before Jospehong, it depends on skill. Yes, not many could do it. But some have the abilty to do it because of skill. And with AI, 40% chance it won't work because that's when the bow doesn't give a fuck.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISyncErrorI View Post
    Like I said before Jospehong, it depends on skill. Yes, not many could do it. But some have the abilty to do it because of skill. And with AI, 40% chance it won't work because that's when the bow doesn't give a fuck.
    My point is that while it can be done, it is rarely seen due to non ideal ping and very very few players these days having that sort of micro. My strat isn't ineffective just because of the existence of castle archer kiting. For 4 sword start on castle, you can say it doesn't work because of g kiting being easy to do and commonly seen even in 1.6k ranks. But you can't really say MMS doesn't work at sub 2k rating because of castle archer kiting.

    I feel its a fun strat to use for those who are sick and tired of SAS battles on castle. And it takes it to mid game which is fun to play on castle imo cos its fast paced and has good macro-micro balance unlike on the other maps

  3. #23
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    Myst has consistently used this strat to success even vs 2.4k players. You can argue that it is perhaps of his skill level, but i also feel that it's because its a strat where there are no major flaws (unlike 4 sword start/spear start). Even if they apply the correct counter (sword + archer spam to deny first spear), you are only put at a small disadvantage, not a major one, you can still win if you have decent macro.

    What I like is that the spear + sword at start can kill units easily, and when they counter attack right after with spear + 2 archer, your almost dead spear + 2 archer + CA + hustle can hold it off, giving you momentum to outmacro them with merics and higher archer count. The CA works wonders as they can't attack you unless with overwhelming force. CA is kind of a must get upgrade on this map as it does so much.

  4. #24
    A Stick Empires Player AsePlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josephong View Post
    Would like to add that, if they go AM instead of Sas, you can go MMSASA to contest for Tower. It sometimes fucks with people who think I'm going CA and won't have the units to defend. Or you can go MMSM-CA which gives more eco and a faster spear, works well vs AMM
    AMM gives tower and pressure whilst having eco as well tho.
    You can and will get kited to death. If the archer presses in on you how are you going to maintain your miners getting chipped away? You gotta pull them back, withering your eco and benefiting the guy who started with a more agro start.
    Last edited by AsePlayer; 02-28-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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  5. #25
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    @gaismail
    Sometimes players who have played me before expect a CA start, so they go AM followed by eco spam. But that's not really the main point anyways cos I'm sidestepping by explaining how I can fuck people up who try to build a counter to my strategy lol.
    Also, you mention that "So no matter what you do, there's always gonna be ... CA dodging." I think I've already established the point that CA dodging isn't really a good counter to my strategy. If it were seen commonly and used effectively, then my strategy would be not useful. But that's not the case. Also, I have a sword that can run alongside and attack the archer as she kites. If they want to do damage, they have to take damage. And if they take too much damage, I can wrestle back tower control.

    @ase
    I assume you mean kited to death, you're talking about the spearton being kited by archers. Like I said, 2 archers isn;t going to do much in a short map, spearton can get out alive with no problems unless you get too greedy. With AMM, if the archer presses in, i have more than enough time to get CA without delaying eco as the sword can tank damage. Also, MMSMCA gets the spear out 10 secs faster, and the opponent also has to build the swords he didnt build by forgoing SAS. So the difference is not much really.

    So far I don't see any major arguments made against my strat, unless you count the one skele wrote

  6. #26
    A Stick Empires Player AsePlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josephong View Post
    @gaismail
    Sometimes players who have played me before expect a CA start, so they go AM followed by eco spam. But that's not really the main point anyways cos I'm sidestepping by explaining how I can fuck people up who try to build a counter to my strategy lol.
    Also, you mention that "So no matter what you do, there's always gonna be ... CA dodging." I think I've already established the point that CA dodging isn't really a good counter to my strategy. If it were seen commonly and used effectively, then my strategy would be not useful. But that's not the case. Also, I have a sword that can run alongside and attack the archer as she kites. If they want to do damage, they have to take damage. And if they take too much damage, I can wrestle back tower control.

    @ase
    I assume you mean kited to death, you're talking about the spearton being kited by archers. Like I said, 2 archers isn;t going to do much in a short map, spearton can get out alive with no problems unless you get too greedy. With AMM, if the archer presses in, i have more than enough time to get CA without delaying eco as the sword can tank damage. Also, MMSMCA gets the spear out 10 secs faster, and the opponent also has to build the swords he didnt build by forgoing SAS. So the difference is not much really.

    So far I don't see any major arguments made against my strat, unless you count the one skele wrote
    If the opponent forces you to invest into a CA, that CA could've been an archer or two miners, you will be down in army/eco depending on how you want to look on it. Once your CA is forced, there is no immediate threat to the archer, so the opponent can stack miners too whilst having tower control. You're basically at a disadvantage at that point. They will be able to out-army you because you're down an archer as well.
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  7. #27
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    Well if you buy a castle archer you can still spam miners, and you'll be spamming while being ahead in your miner count.

    Josephong also said MMS followed by an archer purchase is something he does to counter archer miner starts. No castle archer purchase there.
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    I CANT BEAT WALLS WITH SPEAR MASS SO I'M GONNA GO ON THE FORUMS AND SPAM IN ALL CAPS THAT THEY SHOULD BE NERFED HKASJDFLASDNJK
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  8. #28
    A Stick Empires player ISyncErrorI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josephong View Post
    @gaismail
    Sometimes players who have played me before expect a CA start, so they go AM followed by eco spam. But that's not really the main point anyways cos I'm sidestepping by explaining how I can fuck people up who try to build a counter to my strategy lol.
    Also, you mention that "So no matter what you do, there's always gonna be ... CA dodging." I think I've already established the point that CA dodging isn't really a good counter to my strategy. If it were seen commonly and used effectively, then my strategy would be not useful. But that's not the case. Also, I have a sword that can run alongside and attack the archer as she kites. If they want to do damage, they have to take damage. And if they take too much damage, I can wrestle back tower control.
    CA dodging isn't a good counter to your strat? I've played you before and raped each one of your miners just by CA dodging. It's GG you lose unless you have an archer guarding your miners.
    Quote Originally Posted by alternate View Post
    How on earth... did waroftroya get made an admin???

    Like, as if SE wasn't douche enough these days...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tecness2 View Post
    Who are these people? Especially that Drizzle guy, sounds like an asshole. (No seriously, who are these people?)

    Quote Originally Posted by alternate View Post
    Nut, you truly have gone not so fast.

    ISyncErrorI #531
    gaismail #028

  9. #29
    A Stick Empires Player AsePlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutsophast View Post
    Well if you buy a castle archer you can still spam miners, and you'll be spamming while being ahead in your miner count.

    Josephong also said MMS followed by an archer purchase is something he does to counter archer miner starts. No castle archer purchase there.
    Well I'd prob have a second archer by the time he has one, and he'd be prone to spearton cheese, cause that passive from tower helped a bit.
    Last edited by AsePlayer; 03-01-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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    You are the cancer of stickpage you fucking fuckity fuck fuck
    Quote Originally Posted by HashBrownTrials View Post
    By the time the new update comes out DAZ would've gone through puberty. Lel
    Quote Originally Posted by WyzDM View Post
    Also Fuck EvE. That's not a matchup. That's a rock-paper-I-don't-give-a-fuck.

  10. #30
    Void Skeletonxf's Avatar
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    Change of plans: I can play this Wednesday evening or Friday evening UTC+0

    Edit: Okay then guess I'll be trying to see you on Friday

    I was kinda expecting you to try to offer a time for us to play.
    Last edited by Skeletonxf; 03-01-2017 at 02:42 PM.
    Spoiler for quotes:

    Striving to be understood

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