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  • The first story (Kamiroo Wolf)

    4 100.00%
  • Mirage vs Dermot(Pitchender)

    0 0%
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Thread: Mirage(KamirooWolf) Vs. Dermot(PitchEnder)

  1. #1
    Of Regret and Longing. Kamiroo Wolf's Avatar
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    Mirage(KamirooWolf) Vs. Dermot(PitchEnder)

    Alright, well, today we've got a riveting battle between a monster of morals and a beast of burden!

    It's Declan "Mirage" Stoddard(Kamiroo Wolf)

    Vs.

    The one and only Dermot O' Sullivan!(PitchEnder)!

    Remember to vote fairly and that CnC is always accepted/appreciated!

    Spoiler for Untitled(Kamiroo Wolf):


    Spoiler for Mirage vs Dermot(Pitchender):
    Last edited by Kamiroo Wolf; 10-14-2017 at 12:17 AM.
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  2. #2
    *Bites the Dust FX* PitchEnder's Avatar
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    I just finished reading your story and I must say that I enjoyed most of it. But, my main (and frankly, only) problems revolve around how you wrote Dermot.

    Here's a list of those problems:
    Spoiler for X-Files:


    Please tell me if any of these problems come from me just reading the story wrong.
    Last edited by PitchEnder; 10-14-2017 at 08:32 AM.

    WRHG:Beth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    greasy oil space niggahs.
    Spoiler for Who Do I Fight For?:

    Spoiler for Gif Of My Mascot:


  3. #3
    Of Regret and Longing. Kamiroo Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PitchEnder View Post
    I just finished reading your story and I must say that I enjoyed most of it. But, my main (and frankly, only) problems revolve around how you wrote Dermot.

    Here's a list of those problems:
    Spoiler for X-Files:


    Please tell me if any of these problems come from me just reading the story wrong.
    No, all of your concerns are completely justified and I apologize wholeheartedly for the misrepresentation of your character. I know that can be both disappointing and frustrating to see so I'm sorry.

    just like how I thought the mist was purple I must have missed that part where it said he could see everything within it. My bad. Though I don't explicitly state it and it may seem otherwise, Declan and his clones do struggle to see in the mist. It's just that, through my misrepresentation of your character's intelligence, Ivan always manages to remain in Declan's immediate vicinity(aside from when the chairs are being thrown, where he rushes in a general direction blindly).

    Edit: I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I haven't yet read yours(bits and pieces when I was posting it), but I'll be posting my CnC here when I do.
    Last edited by Kamiroo Wolf; 10-14-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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  4. #4
    *Bites the Dust FX* PitchEnder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamiroo Wolf View Post
    No, all of your concerns are completely justified and I apologize wholeheartedly for the misrepresentation of your character. I know that can be both disappointing and frustrating to see so I'm sorry.

    just like how I thought the mist was purple I must have missed that part where it said he could see everything within it. My bad. Though I don't explicitly state it and it may seem otherwise, Declan and his clones do struggle to see in the mist. It's just that, through my misrepresentation of your character's intelligence, Ivan always manages to remain in Declan's immediate vicinity(aside from when the chairs are being thrown, where he rushes in a general direction blindly).

    Afk for a bit, ill be back
    It's ok man. Your story was still incredibly well written and I liked reading it

    WRHG:Beth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    greasy oil space niggahs.
    Spoiler for Who Do I Fight For?:

    Spoiler for Gif Of My Mascot:


  5. #5
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    CnC accepted? Count me in:

    Both battles have the best titles I've seen in 2017. Sarcasm aside, though, I'm kind of curious why they both have such non-titles.

    Kami,

    First of all, I like that the story mentions the demise of Abbas. Some continuity in that sense is always appreciated, lets you build up some stakes if we know there's permanence to the actions of your characters. Now, I'll skim over the whole "insufficient portrayal" bit for a sec: I'll dedicate more than enough time to that in a moment.

    So, a gripe I've been having with Declan is strictly his motivation. I made the same remark to Pitch when I had an early read of his battle, and that is that his motivation being strictly monetary seems a bit weak. This wouldn't be such an issue if I were under the impression that it served a purpose greater than just the general conflict. If the fight was a staging ground for Declan's growth as a character, for the advancement of his plot, then I wouldn't make this remark, but as is, this conflict is strictly confined to itself. Its just been another job, another fight. At the end Declan's still the same asshole he was before. He'll still be doing his job the exact same way he was before. Life will just continue like it has before. Nothing of import has really transpired.

    Hence I remark on your character's motivation: It is wholly absent. He fights Dermot here, but I feel as if it could've been anyone else and it wouldn't have made much of a difference. And when I feel as if the identity of your adversary doesn't matter, they just devolve into this caricature of their own powers in my eyes and all action loses its meaning, and I start to lose interest. However, your battle did not bore me. I have told others this, but in my eyes you do distinguish yourself from most with your ability to at least portray characters as real people, even though they don't really show much development. And the same applies here. Yes, this might've just been a fight with little significance, but I didn't feel like I was reading two cardboard cutouts being metaphorically bashed together by an author the equivalent of a toddler. So, good job.

    On a technical level, I was a bit lost by the end of the action. I had a hard time picturing where both fighters were relative to each other, and just how the fight was progressing. This little gripe might just be because I was skimming a bit though, so don't take it too serious. I just felt I should point it out.

    A false image of Declan hurls a chair from afar as the true assassin forms in its wake. Dermot swats away the chair with little effort, feigning a jab to what he assumes to be a false foe as Declan rears his man-catcher back and catches the attempt to flinch. Once more the brunt of his polearm smashes into the skull of the enemy, but this time its the shade-shielded jaw of Mirage's victim that is sent spiralling. Dislocated and reeling, the ravager suffers several desperate jabs from the man-catcher before a swing to the ribcage officially shifts the momentum. However, Declan quite literally springs to capitalize on his advantage.
    Another thing I was confused about was Declan's illusion throwing a chair at Ivan. Would the chair have hurt Ivan had it struck him properly. If so, doesn't that completely circumvent one of your power's inherent weaknesses?:

    This false image can walk, talk, and interact with objects, but is unable to engage anything with the intent to harm(it can't attack you. If it does, it's attack will go through you and the image will fade) and will simply fade from view if damaged by any physical means.
    I guess I'm just sort of confused as to how this works still. Taking another look at what I said, I know most of my gripes are more with your character than your actual battle, but I still think it's more applicable to post these things here.

    All in all though, not a bad piece. As I said, I'm sort of lacking motivation and development in Declan, though I've sat down to think about this myself and I haven't really figured out how I'd make someone like that work myself. So please, surprise me.



    Pitch,

    As I said before, it is hard for me to really make much in the way of remarks when there is so little to remark. Same critique as for Kamiroo, I feel too much as if this battle is just happening for the sake of this battle: Declan shows up just looking for some moneys, and they fight just because the authors wish it. Still, it is a simple and concise battle, so I'll give you credit where credit is due. The action is a bit brief, but in my eyes it is always a positive when a battle isn't any longer than it has to be. That being said, if there is little besides just that little confrontation; No setup, no deeper insight into either author's character, no real pay-off: In short, no plot progression or development, then there is indeed very little meat to this bone. It's a very barebones piece of writing, as is your character. There's little content, hence there is little to remark upon.

    However as I said to Alph when he posted his battle, to put in more content is to risk making more mistakes. However, I will always value a piece that took some steps forward and stumbled a bit, over a piece that did not take any risks at all. Kamiroo gets my vote on this one due to stronger portrayal of character, as well as a stronger narrative direction (if only the reference to his previous battle).




    So to make this about accurately portraying characters for a second:

    When writing in the wRHG, you've three audiences to consider: Us, the readers, who have often had little to no input in your story. Your opponent, whose intellectual property you are putting to use so they naturally have a bigger investment in your story. And yourself, of course. You want to write something you yourself at least enjoy. If you don't enjoy it, chances are others won't either, and if you did enjoy it and others don't, then at least you didn't waste your time on something you didn't enjoy.

    Now, why is this important? Because of the preferences of these audiences, and the differences in interpretation. When you're writing your own story, your first goal is of course to enjoy writing it but you also want to make something other people can enjoy too. The general audience is usually just looking for one thing: Meaningful story. If the characters are portrayed well, if the story moves forward in the picture of a greater narrative, if the events portrayed in the battle have meaning to the characters or their world. They usually won't expect characters to be portrayed in a specific way, they only expect they be portrayed in a meaningful way.

    Your opponent, however, has greater investment in the antagonist of your character because he's the mind behind the character. He doesn't just want his character to be portrayed well. If at all possible, he will want his character to be portrayed well in the way he envisioned them. He wants the role the character plays in your story to also propel his own narrative goals forward, if possible.

    However, a good writer will know that such a concession isn't always possible. Because we have a decentralised canon, everyone's interpretation of the RHG and the world surrounding it is different. Sometimes there interpretations can't be reconciled, and your opponent's character will have to be re-interpreted in a way that makes sense within your own canon. This is often necessary for the antagonist to be portrayed meaningfully: Whether it be that he is weaker within your own canon than he would be in your opponent's, whether he act more emotional and less stoic, whether his mother is used as a factory for demon children or not, it doesn't matter. So long that the character make sense within your world. Ultimately your obligation is to yourself and the general audience, not just the opponent.

    For example: Ignus, I expect, would not wish for Abbas' narrative to end so abruptly in a skirmish against Declan. In his own battle, he is the victor. Kamiroo could have made the choice to either kill or spare Abbas. He could have spared Abbas, for the sake of Ignus, but it is also highly plausible we would've seen no more mention of Abbas beyond that point. He would've been inserted into Kamiroo's world, and then ejected again at the end of the battle never to be seen or heard from again. Instead, Kamiroo has killed Abbas, and he has made sure that message comes through to us: We're now watching Declan fight someone else at the funeral where they burried the guy he just killed before. Now there is permanence to Declan's actions, now his actions become more meaningful. Does it suck for Ignus? Possibly. If it were me I'd enjoy seeing my character put to meaningful use, even if said use is not what I personally would have envisioned. This is ultimately still Kamiroo's world. He can do within it as he sees fit, so long as what he chose to alter is more meaningful than it would've been had he not altered it.

    That's my little rant on the subject. I hope the stuff I said is clear to you guys. If not, don't hesitate to ask questions, I'll answer.

    Good luck on your next endeavors.

  6. #6
    Of Regret and Longing. Kamiroo Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post

    Spoiler for Vern's CnC:
    Addressing Declan's illusion throwing the chair, I just counted it as the false image interacting with an object to make a hostile action. While the decoy would surely disappear after tossing the chair(resulting in Declan re-emerging just behind the projectile), the chair was still just an object the clone interacted with albeit in a hostile manner. I'd like to think it would have hurt to some degree if Ivan allowed it to hit him.

    I can understand your frustration with Declan's character progression completely. The same issue was present as I was writing. At the start I kept asking myself how the death of Abbas had impacted Declan and I think the truth of the matter is that it absolutely hasn't(being true to his character). To him, every surrounding aspect of his life is either insignificant or just another fact and I think that's truly where the issue presents itself. As it stands, he is not attempting to grow in any way and is simply along for the ride as the rest of the world progresses. He is content with his existence and this should be what I address when I get back to him. Give him something to fight for, some kind of hurdle to overcome, etc.

    I was planning on switching to a new gladiator(as per the ending of my story), but I might just hold off on that a bit to add a bit more depth to Declan before I forget to. No promises, though.

    All in all, I appreciate you taking the time to read/CnC each story Vern, and I look forward to being able to return the favor in the future.
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