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Thread: Changes to the Writer's Lounge Forum.

  1. #11
    Of Regret and Longing. Kamiroo Wolf's Avatar
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    I don't have many things to say, but I really do agree with a lot of what Alph has said. I love the idea of the Academy, I love the idea of an Olit Section, and agree on pretty much every other point made. I kind of have my own opinions of the universe, though.

    While I enjoy the format and thematic of the wRHG (different characters by different authors coming together to interact/battle one another), I don't necessarily like our relation to the RHG. I understand they are essentially the same things on paper, but in practice they are two completely different beasts.

    Each has their own subdivisions and requirements and bullshit. There are many cases in which people who are deterred by the commitments of one platform hop to the other with the expectation that they can achieve the same results with less effort- only to again be driven away when they discover this is not the case.

    I'm sure we are all aware of this and I'm sure we can all agree this needs to change.

    Perhaps we could change the name and even style of the lounge in a way that breaks ties to the Rock Hard Gladiator brand, but not essentially the format within. Basicslly a name change or even canon change might do, but I'd like to know what you all think.
    ---------

    ...Turns out I have more to say than I thought.

    I agree with Pitch in the sense that clans could be better, but I don't really have any ideas as to how they could be improved aside from motivation. Perhaps, before we have a flooded page of new clans popping up one after the other(only to die in the same week), we could have them require verification with a minimum # of active members before they can be realized? Like for a new clan to be made, you need to have 3 "OG" members like a club at school might.

    I think competitions are fine as they are, but could be more organized and less rare. I like the idea of large competitions across the site like Alph proposed. Might even bring in new members.

    Subforums galore would be nice so long as we don't end up with a big ass web of unexplored destinations.

    Availability:
    Ready.

  2. #12
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crank View Post
    Well, the thing with clans/clan battles, is that they're difficult to organize. The only one that happened here was basically a 1v1 using the whole mass of characters. Actually organizing a half dozen people to write a single thing across multiple time zones is a struggle. Not really the system's fault, but with events, that's clan to clan. Back in the day, Freeborn had a 100 theme challenge. 1 theme per member per month, and we chipped away at them. Clan events depend on the clan, sure there can be guidelines, but those are kinda the selling point.

    ______________________________________

    As far as organization goes, O Lit does come off as secondarily. A part of me wouldn't mind seeing wRHG completely separate from it in it's own area, like with RHG, but with teaching, it feels odd to separate. Maybe if it was:

    OLit
    wRHG
    Sandbox & Academy

    Without all of the wRHG sections overpowering the number it would seem more balanced. Lit could be broken between shorts, series and pre-split, unless someone wants to go through that whole beast.

    Academy could be things like the academy, Friday Funks, the Proving Grounds, or experimental stories. Maybe games?
    _______________________________

    With RHG, I would like to see a branch for the gladiator tales. They don't really have a defined space and kinda go wherever, but at the moment, I don't know if there are enough events to really warrant it's own section. Other than mine, there aren't many. Maybe it would encourage more, but empty sections may not have that appeal, or if 80% of the treads have my name, it might look like something only I do.
    ___________________________

    With feedback, the thing that worries me is if we identify people who have to CnC, others may be discouraged from it, feeling they aren't good enough to do it. There should definitely be a crew of No No Comments, but not everything needs to be a critique. People just need to know what they write gets read. Doesn't have to be a new color, just maybe a sign-up board
    _________________________________

    About things dying:

    It's better for a project to end then just suddenly stop, otherwise it builds the impression that things don't get done. This includes things like events and "rovers". Let's be honest, people come and go in waves. Month at a time signups I can see, otherwise there'll be a ghost time. For example, Mastertop (the temporary move from FA before SP booted the writing stuff here) had Advicers. Of like, 4, maybe one, or if we were lucky, two, were active at a time.

    All in all, I'm fine with change. I'm fine with lots of change, but it'll need to be more like a ball of clay than one and done. If things become things they need a home, but if something's a one off nothing happens too... We don't need the clutter of a dozen sections. Things need dates, so there can be less a sense that things just stop, and while yes, there should be more CnC, it shouldn't be from "special" people.

    EDIT:

    I forgot, the number of stickied threads in wRHG seems... excessive. I wouldn't mind some condensing to happen. Rules, Regulations & Recommendations could all be one thing, for example

    EDIT II: Past research in regards to people commenting
    Soo...I agree with Condensing some stuff and adding more space for wRHG related writings.

    What I will say is that things do have to be a one-and-done.

    We've been trying the ball of clay method for years, with nothing happening. You can't "ball of clay" certain things because clay doesn't work that way. Mold it up, toss it in the furnace, and be fucking done. That's the way clay works. You don't dabble with clay over days and days and days unless you aren't serious about it in the first place.

    The WL needs and overhaul. We've got posts everywhere, threads everywhere, disorder, and generally an environment that struggles to welcome newcomers. I spoke about this in the WL Chat once...we just have set a really high bar for people to come in and grasp wtf they need to do to make it here.

    About dying:

    Don't let shit die in the first place. I don't want random stuff done, I want official things here. We need to engage people, not just say "oh hai, here be some random user-created event lel pliz join." Additionally, there needs to be an official framework to these things. I've seen events filled with the cringiest noobs wanting to join, and this discourages those writers that WOULD be committed. The WL currently has no way of anchoring people's interest to stay committed because it's inherently now so nebulous commitment doesn't even seem to matter.

    I know there has been disagreement between you and other notable WL members in the past about handling the newbies/CnC . On this point I have to say that your suggestion here is essentially what has always been done, and doesn't work. Either CnC is randomly not given, or lazy/useless CnC is given, etc. Plus when someone/anyone gives CnC many people have reacted poorly to it.

    Reasons why we need these extra roles:

    1) Some people here give good, thoughtful CnC. Others don't. We want those good CnCers to be rewarded, highlighted, and encouraged.

    2) Some people here seem to be allergic to the hard truth that shit is shit (cough cough). I'm not saying we need to be rude, but the fact is that we need people are can say "Listen, this is really just not good. It's flat out bad, and here's why. Here's how you can fix it, and I hope you do." Otherwise the whole Vision of actually developing writers turns into coddling noobs in some random online shitfest like every other website out there.

    3) Commitment. Yeah, damn straight these people need to be ones that we KNOW will actually do the shit they commit to. Here at the WL we do these unofficial gigs that end poorly because we KNOW so-and-so goes MIA or gets lazy or whatever but trust them anyway. And we don't have back-ups, either...because if you get 3 reliable people doing a job, only 1 might be gone at any given point in time, max 2. If Person A starts showing they're gone all the time, then you (read: Dvor the Admin or another later mod) fills that role with someone else.

    4) Help. I think right now the CnCer/Advisor roles could be combined, though later there might need to be separation of roles. But these newbies that are getting CnC need to see someone has the JOB of helping them. One of the biggest things I've learned in business over the years is that the average person just automatically has a certain level of trust for people in certain positions. If Vern goes and gives CnC and advice as Vern, a noob will discard his opinion because he's just a rando to them. If an Official Writing Advisor/Academy Staff gives CnC and advice, hey, guess what, that's suddenly a different story. A} someone important noticed them and took an interest, and B} someone important is giving the opinions, not just anyone. It's just the way humans work. Sure, you'll always have the flaming stubborn noobs, but they can't be solved by ANYONE.
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
    "" ~ Index


    ~Arch

    ~^^ENTER THE TUNNEL^^~

  3. #13
    Secret Psychopath Crank's Avatar
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    Last bit you said I think is going to have to be step by step. A series of ghost towns isn't inviting, may want to make more subs where there are three-five of a category (To Wolf. Dammit, Alph)

    EDIT TO ALPH: I get where you're coming from, but things aren't as simple as just don't let them die. HH only had two submissions, and Friday Funks just stopped. With CnCs are someone's job, others are less inclined to do them. For example, I'm most active with them when other's stop, because when other's do them, I feel off the hook
    Last edited by Crank; 11-14-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  4. #14
    Keikaku means plan Devour's Avatar
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    I spent like, multiple hours last night trying to see if I could fix the user permissions problem. It seems that I can't and it's a Jeff thing, so with nothing better to do I might as well put some more attention here. I'll be giving my general thoughts and stuff and maybe see what general consensus there seems to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    the Vision.

    The WL needs to attract new members of all fields, accept new members, cultivate them, involve them, and turn them into senior members.

    The way to do this requires several precise adjustments, but focuses on one key point -- Content.


    1) Organization. The WL forum is a pitfall of shitty organization, and which makes tons of material get lost with time (an inevitability with forums, but worse here) and can intimidate new members and make them feel as if their work would not be appreciated. The best way to organize will be as follows:
    >>>Forums for the Scribes Table, wRHG, Olit, and Academy.
    >Subforums for Scribes Table: The Bulletin Board (General WL rules, news, etc), Events (The official threads for competitions, events, etc), Draftboard (Personal threads for competitions, WIP Olit pieces, etc).
    >Subforums for wRHG: Universe (rules, guidelines, canon elements, etc), Characters, Clans, Battles, Events (wRHG writings like Secret Santa that function in the wRHG universe but don't take the battle format).
    >Subforums for OLit: Think Tank (references, interesting articles, recommendations, social writing, etc, as well as the Rules), Series (Threads by single owners for series of posts/stories that go together), Individual Works (Poems, stand-alone short stories, etc).
    >Subforums for Academy: Lessons (Obivious, only Academy Staff can post here), Discussion Board (anyone can post here. Allows people to ask questions, discuss lessons, etc.), Challenge Tests (the place for active students to write up their tests and receive feedback/CnC/"grades" from Academy Staff)
    -So what exactly is the Scribes Table?

    -At moment, a drastic increase to how many subforums we have may be a bit much. Without more activity to fill all the new areas, we'd just acquire a whole bunch of new inactive ghost towns. What do you folks think of taking it a bit slow, and increasing complexity if/when activity rises? I can think of how to fit most proposed new sections into a much smaller area already.

    2) Engagement.
    >>>We need to have a staff of "rovers" that ensure new members get CnC, interaction, comments, welcomes, advice, etc. These people should have their names listed. They are not mods, but regulars/senior members that are willing and qualified for this roll.
    I like the idea of something which encourages and/or recognizes people who do all this. Crank has a good concern that we don't want to discourage people who aren't in this list of users from also doing all that.
    What if you could become accepted into this group by doing good CnC, interaction, comments, welcomes, advice, etc. as a normal member? And then once you were a "rover" or whichever the name's decided to be, you only remained one for as long as you continued doing that?

    And also, here's an idea for organizing such a thing. The thread which listed the current "Rovers" and such could be a thread where discussion about them happened. Discussion such as nominations by people who think others (or themselves) have been doing good work, and discussion on rovers who haven't been posting much lately. And then once a month, the list of rovers got updated based on the most deserving users at the time.

    3) Competitions.
    >>>This is a long-standing hope of mine since joining this site. Get Competitions rolling like we have for the Animation side. Judges are appointed by Admin/local mods. Said mods are automatically judges unless they have chosen to participate.
    I also love the idea of competitions. Errorblender's genre thing was amazing, although that faced the problem of burning out when it lasted for too long. Perhaps competitions could be once a month or once every few months? And while endorsed/ran by the admin or mods, a user-run competition being the official one for the month also seems fine to me.

    4) System of member handling.
    >>>What I mean by this is that whenever we have really, REALLY bad writers come in and try to do stuff, we need a way to help them improve that doesn't chase them off. Unfortunately the idea of CnC is new and offensive to many new members (and some old members :P). Ways to handle this better:
    >Use the Academy. If someone is doing poorly, reference the appropriate academic lessons. Put them in contact with Academy Staff. That is a way to say "hey, your XYZ fucking sucks" without saying it. Instead, just say "Hey, XYZ was bad. Why don't you check out this lesson here? I think it might help you improve in this area."
    >Set up a system of "Professional" advisors. Again, the Admin and Mods would automatically be in this, but they could appoint qualified members as well. These would be people who have proven they are good at working with cringe-worthy new members and offering help and advice. Because this is OFFICIALLY their role, it takes off the edge of "I'm giving my superior opinion" and converts it to "Hey, this is my job on this site. How may I help you?" kind of feel.
    >See Point 2: Engagement. Have Rovers that ensure members get good, quality interaction on this point.
    >Clear rules. Rules need to be set and be quite clear, and regulation of them needs to be firm. If we start sliding around the measure of what's acceptable and what isn't and making exceptions as always then shit hits the fan and everything falls apart. Rules need to be loose, but there. Again, having established leadership to take this stance is really helpful, as most members can just appeal to the admin/mods/officials and let them do the less enjoyable part of their jobs (getting flamed by angry noobs they regulate).
    -I also like the Academy lots. And I'll be trying to contribute to it
    -This system of professional advisors are basically aforementioned Rovers, right?
    -Having strict rules on what is and isn't allowed is something that I disagree with and seems like a dangerous thing to try and do. Writing is about creativity and doing what you're inspired to do, so having "regulations of what is and isn't acceptable" sounds like a dystopian nightmare. Rather than that, having a way to make things work either through Power Rankings or any other solution would be better than a person of authority telling them "you can't do what you're excited to do. Do this thing that seems boring in comparison or else." If they don't change and nothing else works, no one's forced to battle them.
    5) Image.
    >>>With the former four points in place, the WL needs to actively engage people from other communities. I know Jeff wants to get writing onto Stickpage Site itself, but we need to do our own work. Spread the word of the SP WL as a place not just to do wRHG. That's just one element and a way to keep people actively writing. Rather, we need to present ourselves as a place to come as a new writer, find helpful people and helpful lessons, practice your skill and post your work, get feedback and viewership, compete, have fun, and eventually become a much better writer than you were
    I like this

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    First order of business should probably be a new layout forum wise. Right now we've got everything dedicated to wRHG and any other kind of writing is thrown on this big pile underneath. I know I'm kinda rechewing what other folks before me have been yelling for a while but we kinda need our Olit back in a way, shape or form. I don't know what's possible of course, but a few things I feel wouldn't be misplaced are a section for practice so we can throw stuff like the academy in there. Second, perhaps some kind of thread where we can showcase the best writing folks make around this here parts (be it wRHG or not).
    I also want OLit back. It'll be one of the first things that happens.

    As for the rest, these are just ideas, but I feel like we could also be helped by a place for events and discussions and things of that ilk. Olit has to come back too in a way shape or form, but making it one big subsection might be too broad. Perhaps divide stuff amongst genre? I don't know.

    Lastly, perhaps also make a subsection for wRHG writing that isn't a battle and such.

    Those are just my two cents before I head off to bed. Kinda wanna see what other folks have to say first.
    A subsection for non-battle wRHG... sort of like where people posted "what if" threads if their characters got stuck in a train or some such?

    Quote Originally Posted by PitchEnder View Post
    What I really, really, really want to see changed is the Clan section of the lounge. Right now we only have 2 semi-active clans putting out semi-active shit, which is upsetting because I really like some of the clans that have been built and, eventually, died as a whole. So, I thought about it for a while and came up with some possible ideas that could make the wRHG clan section more appealing.

    1. Adding a clan ranking system much like the Hall of Warriors so people are encouraged to do more clan vs clan stuff.

    2. Add weekly or bi-weekly projects that any clan can do so people don't have to constantly come up with their own shit, thus making it easier for clans to stay active due to their leader's lack of project creation.

    I'm having trouble remembering my other points so I'll bring em up later
    More clan stuff would be great, but are clans perhaps this inactive because there's just not enough activity at the moment?
    It's also sort of the job of clan leaders to give their club things to do. Maybe there could be changes that allow clans to pursue a greater goal, though for now a hall of warriors type thing might not work because there's too few members. People will just join the higher-ranked clan if they care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haru View Post
    Yeahhhhh I have no idea, haven't posted in a while.
    I would like more clan support/more clan wars as Pitch said. I feel like the others have more to say than I do.
    I'm fine with anythin. Gonna have to revive Blade one day as well.
    I would love to have a whole discussion on what should be done for Clans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crank View Post
    As far as organization goes, O Lit does come off as secondarily. A part of me wouldn't mind seeing wRHG completely separate from it in it's own area, like with RHG, but with teaching, it feels odd to separate. Maybe if it was:

    OLit
    wRHG
    Sandbox & Academy
    This much seems like a good spread of sections to begin with, with all the potential sub forums turned into official threads/stickies until activity grows enough to give them their own sections. Thoughts?

    Without all of the wRHG sections overpowering the number it would seem more balanced. Lit could be broken between shorts, series and pre-split, unless someone wants to go through that whole beast.

    Academy could be things like the academy, Friday Funks, the Proving Grounds, or experimental stories. Maybe games?
    Examples of stuff that may be better as threads rather than sections for now.
    With feedback, the thing that worries me is if we identify people who have to CnC, others may be discouraged from it, feeling they aren't good enough to do it.
    People just need to know what they write gets read
    This is a fair point in regards to what Alph suggested. And like I brought up: thoughts on "rovers" being a non-permanent monthly thing that you achieve by doing that as a regular user in the first place?
    Last edited by Devour; 11-14-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  5. #15
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    Sooo...

    1) Scribe's Table is essentially the WL equivalent of the Stickpage Official and Creative forums/sections. A single spot for all official posts, competitions (and competition-related), development discussions, etc. That way all of that is easy to find without having to remember where XYZ competition was posted, or trying to decide where to post your Competition WIP thread, etc.

    2) The reason I suggest this now is because the structure I suggested we CAN already fill. At this point, I can see what you mean and could focus on the key areas. The wRHG, for example, already has threads that fit Universe, Events, Characters, Clans, and Battles. Those could already get rolling. The Academy, however, is moving quickly but will take awhile to require subforums -- individual threads would suffice for now. Olit, I believe, should get subforums because not only will they have some threads, but it's one of those places that I think everyone agrees it just needs structure to keep from being a pile of God-only-knows-what. Scribe's Table could do without subforums -- those would really only become necessary once the competition structure gets up and running.
    >>>In Summary: I think wRHG and Olit need to be fully fleshed out into forums/subforums for the sake of functional order since they are relevant NOW. Academy and Scribe's Table only need forums.

    3) I like the idea of regularly elected rovers. I think we should do this on a 2-3 month schedule just to keep things from being too hectic (assuming a period of a week to run through the comments/actions of people, you would be running on essentially a three-week cycle which is waaaaayyy too short). I like your requirements. To @Crank I would argue that there comes a point where someone who wants to give CnC has to decide if they want to put in the effort or not. We can't him and haw about doing this just because some people MIGHT do it. I'd rather have a few people regularly DEFINITELY doing it than a bunch of people MAYBE doing it.

    4) Official Competitions, I believe, should run on a 2 month schedule. 1 month would be too short for many people to feel included. A 3 month schedule is also viable for **Official** Competitions. What I would say is that users should be able to run their own competitions at any point in time...official ones would just be ones that the Mods help run. Additionally, we could have a suggestion thread where users can suggest competitions (using an application format) for the mods to run. The reason I say Official with emphasis is that, ideally, these would eventually have cash prizes like the animation competitions.
    >>>In Summary: There would be two types of Competitions. Official comps would be on a 3 Month Schedule (I like this time-table, I think). These would be run by mods, but could also use User Suggestions. Then there would be Casual Competitions. These would be run by users, but approved by mods. The approval would consider factors like 1) have you demonstrated you are an active member on the sight? 2) Is this a viable idea for a competitions, 3) Can you run this/do you know how you want to run it, etc. The Mods/Rovers could offer help on creating these as well.

    5) Rovers = Advisors. I think if there was a really high traffic here Rovers would be a responsibility tier above Advisors, but at this point it just makes sense to consolidate them. If Dvor's a General, Regional Mods are Colonels, these Rovers are the individual Commanders/Commandos that run around keeping track of the day-to-day user interaction. There is simply too much stuff going on for 1-3 mods to handle alone, and quite frankly a lot of it doesn't even need a real "Mod"...just a position of authority that is verified to be reliable.

    6) I think you misunderstood me about rules. I'm not talking about what you can and cannot write or how you do it. I'm talking about overall rules of conduct. In the WL we have a kind of unspoken norm here that is in addition to the overall site rules. For example, developing a character -- yes, you need to follow the profile guidelines. Posting battles -- make sure they are public polls (and for goodness' sake have a little tutorial on how to do this since most people can't figure it out). Etc. Writing itself should certainly be left open, I agree.

    7) In light of rules, I'd also suggest the addition of some kind of Council. Aka, Dvor, Acute, any other mods we have/will have relevant to the WL, and the Rovers/Advisors. These people can address spontaneous issues that arise in issues of conflict (like the DoomsDruid debacle. Essentially only myself and two other people actually did anything meaningful with this over a period of about six months, despite being a rather notable conflict).

    8) For the wRHG -- Universe, Events, Characters, Clans, and Battles. Universe = all of that OOC stuff. I wrote a Christmas story with my chars, and a series of non-battle stories just myself. Other people have threads for on-going non-battle plots. Azzy posts his Nightshade stuff from time to time. Etc. Events = these are non-competition style events. Shipping and Handling, Secret Santa, etc. Characters = Duh, except this would be for ALL characters. I've worked up a good format with my current post I'm creating, I think, to use as the base template. Clans = I don't think this needs a revamp, just perhaps some Rover involvement/approval to help them run. Battles = Double Duh.

    9) Foster inter-clan competition. Right now clans have to organize this, and it's a haphazard and shoddy thing. Vern vs Blade Mercs fell apart because of member issues. CoN vs NCC hit troubles because of poor coordination on my part. Other proposed conflicts just haven't happened. Inter-clan writings are hard to make happen, and a structure for it would be nice. Again, this is a place where the Rovers would be useful in helping organize stuff and help people out, as well as just having a baseline set-up.

    10) On Crank's Suggestion -- over my dead body will Sandbox and the Academy get lumped together. These are literally the direct opposite of each other, and they contradict each other. One is open and uncontrolled creation, the other is heavily organized and scholarly methodical teaching and cultivation. I will personally pull your bottom lip up over your head till it touches the base of your neck if this happens. I think Sandbox would be better fitted as a subforum of Olit, since if it was wRHG it would be in wRHG, and otherwise everything else falls into Olit. Also, I will say I do think either a subforum or something for all rules, announcements, and WL forum discussions should exist (Scribe's Table). Just for ease of access. But that's less of an issue, really.

    11)
    Academy could be things like the academy, Friday Funks, the Proving Grounds, or experimental stories. Maybe games?
    Crank, I will find you and your bottom lip I swear. I and Vern conceptualized this Academy and planned out the contributions/function. It's open for additions and contributions and inclusion of anyone, but turning it into a catch-all is just absurd. Proving Grounds is wRHG...what on earth does that have to do with the purpose of the Academy? Friday Funks are either Olit or wRHG...again, not Academy. Experimental stories are Olit...not Academy. Unless you went to some really freaky school (or Cal State).
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
    "" ~ Index


    ~Arch

    ~^^ENTER THE TUNNEL^^~

  6. #16
    Secret Psychopath Crank's Avatar
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    Academy is about learning, Friday Funks are about encouraging development, experimental stories are about seeing how something feels/how you write something, all of which seem to be places where you're asking for help or trying to spin your wheels. I stand by their going together, otherwise, the academy sounds like a singular thread, which, if so, wouldn't need it's own area. Suppose there aren't enough games at the moment, just the interviews. We can get there when we get there. If there do become enough threads, maybe the academy can branch out, but not yet in my book. Academy feels like the place you'd post if you specifically wanted feedback on something. I mean, you got graded on your homework in school, didn't you?

    A lot of what you're saying is mod heavy. We would need to be reeeeeeally active to warrant a council composed of that many mods. Bots and few exceptions aside, we were doing alright laissez faire. Not saying things couldn't have been better, just that we don't need to go all police state with the numbers. Sure, a more active sectional mod would be cool, but we don't need a rainbow right now, and I really don't think rovers should have their own color. If you're active, people will recognise it regardless.

    Universe and events don't need to be separate until there are more events. There have been what, 10 total?

    Also, about having someone have to do CnC:

    I've been around long enough that I felt like I was that guy, and trust me when I say that that weight is a bitch, and reeeally doesn't make you want to do it. Honestly, I'd tune it down 1 month. Maybe recognize without forcing commitment, but invite for a stint when they're showing initiative. Elections may imply not good enough, and not good enough walks a slippy slope to tell people to shut up. A solid chunk of the people in my link said that they didn't comment because they didn't think their opinions were good enough, and I really don't want to encourage that type of thinking. I also don't think someone should be assigned the cringe worthy people. Like, if that was Mike's job and then Mike commented on your story...

    I also stand by my clay analogy. You put it in the oven when it's ready, but you build until then. We have molding to do and pieces to make.

    EDIT: Kinda ironic that Xate's story is still sitting there untouched.

    EDIT II: With competitions, 3 or 4 may work if it's for a single story, but things like tournaments I don't think we should do that often. Maybe one or two, otherwise it'll get desaturated
    Last edited by Crank; 11-15-2017 at 01:19 AM.

  7. #17
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    @Crank:

    1) The point of the Academy is to be Academic. This isn't gradeschool where we want people posting everything they do on the walls. This is to be very ordered and refined. No offense, Crank, but you're seeing the Academy that's been in existence for all of...what, four days?...and thinking that this somehow is the end product. Vern and I have not been working on this concept for essentially a year to just be a single thread, I can tell you that much. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you want to get something like that going then I'd prefer it to be separate. As Founder of the Academy (with the support of the Dean), I decline your suggestion :P.

    2) Nothing is mod-heavy. These aren't mods, Crank. These are appointed people. People who do jobs. Mods have technical responsibilities in addition to their people skills. These Rovers/Advisors are just working with people only. I can also list a dozen WL members off the top of my head that would deeply disagree with the "doing alright laissez faire" bit. I understand you happen to like it this way, but most of the rest of us do not. At least those of us that actually do things around here regularly and actively.

    3) Rovers having their own color or not is a Dvor decision. I personally thought of them as appointed members, but tbh I think having them be "mini-mods" isn't a bad idea. Gives them an official standing.

    4) You're right about the Universe and Events, at least temporarily.

    5) Well, Crank, if you decide you don't want to do things, the you just quit on the next go-around of being a Rover. No one makes you be re-elected in this structure. Tuning it down to one month is possible, but it really just messes up the flow of actually having people responsible. A 2-3 month schedule (yes, 2 month would be an option) is more functional and prevents having elections every few weeks and gives enough time for Rovers to actually do their job.

    6) Crank, this is something I also know has been recurring disagreements. Saying someone or something isn't "good enough" is NOT a cardinal sin. You show me someone who wasn't told they weren't good enough and I'll show you someone who STILL isn't good enough. If you don't set goals and standards, you have people doing whatever the fuck they please and being stagnant. Oh, wait, you mean the current situation in the WL? Yeah. Why don't we invite DoomsDruid to bring back the god-tier controls-everything edgefuck character. The one everyone literally swore not to touch with a ten foot pole. That was good enough, right? Of course not. Just because you weren't appointed doesn't mean you can't CnC, just that you don't HAVE to. You literally just said having too was a pain and would prefer to NOT force commitment, yet then indicate that allowing commitment would somehow circle back around and make people not committed...aka, you're logic here is flawed. Don't believe me? Look at the current mass of quality and consistent CnC we have. Yes, that was extremely sarcastic. Essentially 80% of all CnC of quality (I'm being REALLY lenient there) of late has been given by Vern and I, with everyone else tossing in combined for that remaining percent. This shouldn't be that way, because other people can and would do it.

    7) A solid chunk of the people in your link were also using that line as a good excuse. As an admin of people IRL I can tell you that's in the international top ten excuses list for not doing things, and that when you look at it 90% of the people who said that didn't take the time to form an opinion or do some work in the first place to see if it was good enough or not. I mean, that's a bit abrasive truth there, but hard love is hard love. We're stuck in the same rut here for years because of this mentality, so with the chance to revamp I want us to look ahead to the future and new horizons, not tag stuff from a three year old thread that -- guess what -- never changed jack shit around here.

    8) No one person is assigned the cringe worthy folk. I never said that. ALL of the Rovers get to do that wonderful job. And, here's the gig -- if that's too untouchable for you (or you're a dick about it), and you're too unreliable, then guess what? You aren't going to be a Rover . Rovers by default have to be people that are reliable, but also genuinely enjoy helping people -- even the hard-to-like ones. And, further, they have to actually be good at it.

    9) This isn't a work of art here at the WL, though (which, like I said, isn't quite how clay works anyway, but whatever). This is a functional systematic framework for interpersonal relations and skill development. It needs to be handled like a system, like a framework, etc. I learned a long time ago that if you don't do the shit you plan to do NOW, and say you'll do it later, it never gets done because everyone gets comfortable with the half-way stage and doesn't want to change again. People don't like change, so when you have the chance use it before you get locked up in a rut again.

    10) Well, whatever. I think SP itself usually has about 3-4 a year for animation, so I'm mirroring that for the Official Competitions.
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
    "" ~ Index


    ~Arch

    ~^^ENTER THE TUNNEL^^~

  8. #18
    Secret Psychopath Crank's Avatar
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    Essentially 80% of all CnC of quality (I'm being REALLY lenient there) of late has been given by Vern and I
    Spoiler for I beg your pardon?:

    I'll give you characters, but don't give me that.
    Last edited by Crank; 11-15-2017 at 04:44 PM.

  9. #19
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    @Crank:

    A Screenshot of threads isn't helpful. Just went through those, and it's about 50-50 Vern/me and you on those (also, maybe it's just Aquila, Vern, and I, but you seem to totally avoid CnCing any senior members and just do the newbies, whereas Vern and I do the opposite). Vern and I are essentially the only ones offering regular material CnC on profiles. SO, with 50 (or, to be gracious towards you and the horde of newbie battles Vern skipped and I wasn't here for, 40) percent of the battle CnC and almost all of the profile/character CnC, that would total to around 80%.
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
    "" ~ Index


    ~Arch

    ~^^ENTER THE TUNNEL^^~

  10. #20
    Secret Psychopath Crank's Avatar
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    It's weird to me that skipping newbie battles seems to be a non issue to you. We're going to have fundamentally different opinions on characters (I think people are more inclined to fight with what they've built. If you don't like them, don't battle them, whereas you and Vern would rather iron them out before testing them. Sure, if something sounds broken pointers are fine, but other than that, go ahead). If you want to build a community, you need to support the new people, and the new people who are actually going to stick around are the ones who are writing stories. If only people who have been around for a while get CnC and first fights are ignored, people are less inclined to stay. And yeah, I CnC older members much less, because a lot of the time when it feels like I'm flying solo with the new crew, it's those members who could help, but don't. To be blunt, I don't expect to see anything other than the character page of a new wRHG, and most of those new members do fade away, so I don't view it as worth the time commitment. When they post a battle, awesome, they might be one of the ones to stick around.

    Spoiler for And for the record::
    Last edited by Crank; 11-15-2017 at 07:14 PM.

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