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Thread: The Chat Thread

  1. #157841
    yes Scarecrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
    That's an awfully optimistic view.
    By decriminalizing drugs, resources are freed up to improve public health and education programs, and users can stop being demonized so that they can actually get the help they need. This is not some fairy tale idea I've invented, it's something that's been tried and proven in practice: https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin

  2. #157842
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    Medical usage of drugs is a whole different ball game. I mean, when I was running as a paramed 99% of the drugs I carried could not have been used by civilians. There are levels of legalization/decriminalization, in other words. I don't think anything should be kept out of the medical field if it produces good results with minimal side-effects (which is more than can be said for most medical drugs).

    That said, I'm wasn't stating my personal opinion.

    I personally think it makes sense to legalize MOST drugs (yes, meth and whatnot should stay illegal because they are just so incredibly harmful even to third parties). If you make it legal, you can regulate it. You can't "regulate" illegal drugs -- that philosophy is errant. I mean, we've got the Prohibition as evidence of this. OOO, alcohol was banned (actually I think it was hard liquor, but still). Enter speak-easies and moonshine and bootleggers. Prohibition get's lifted, all those vanish (with the exception of moonshine :P), and what remains we can actually regulate. Alcoholism is now, although widespread, at least manageable.

    Honestly, illegal or not I don't know many people who have not had contact with/used drugs at some point, which is proof of how the politics are wrong on this. Legalize it, then regulate it. And reap a nice profit on the side. Also, doing this with the top drugs like cocaine and marijuana and whatnot would eviscerate the cartels main cash-goods. By eviscerating the cartels, crime (and illegal immigration, tbh) would drop, particularly that which stems from gangs (crime in general might not be heavily impacted, but this area of crime would be dealt a huge blow).

    All that said, I still stand by what I said earlier. No matter what you and I say, the general public opinion hasn't changed enough to bring something like this to pass. It won't happen. Maybe in a few generations, but not yet. At least not from what I can see. There is SOOO much more that grabs the news and the political timesheets.

    Also, I'm speaking as an American. I cannot speak for the status of other countries, since we are typically somewhat slow on the draw when it comes to policies like this.
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  3. #157843
    Bisecting Vorpal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    Medical usage of drugs is a whole different ball game. I mean, when I was running as a paramed 99% of the drugs I carried could not have been used by civilians. There are levels of legalization/decriminalization, in other words. I don't think anything should be kept out of the medical field if it produces good results with minimal side-effects (which is more than can be said for most medical drugs).
    This seems like an awfully different change of tone from your previous post, where you're "bursting" Scarecrows "bubble."

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    That said, I'm wasn't stating my personal opinion.
    Oh okay, now it all makes sense...you're back-peddling. Weird I really got the feeling from your first post that you were serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    I personally think it makes sense to legalize MOST drugs (yes, meth and whatnot should stay illegal because they are just so incredibly harmful even to third parties). If you make it legal, you can regulate it. You can't "regulate" illegal drugs -- that philosophy is errant. I mean, we've got the Prohibition as evidence of this. OOO, alcohol was banned (actually I think it was hard liquor, but still). Enter speak-easies and moonshine and bootleggers. Prohibition get's lifted, all those vanish (with the exception of moonshine :P), and what remains we can actually regulate. Alcoholism is now, although widespread, at least manageable.

    Honestly, illegal or not I don't know many people who have not had contact with/used drugs at some point, which is proof of how the politics are wrong on this. Legalize it, then regulate it. And reap a nice profit on the side. Also, doing this with the top drugs like cocaine and marijuana and whatnot would eviscerate the cartels main cash-goods. By eviscerating the cartels, crime (and illegal immigration, tbh) would drop, particularly that which stems from gangs (crime in general might not be heavily impacted, but this area of crime would be dealt a huge blow).

    All that said, I still stand by what I said earlier. No matter what you and I say, the general public opinion hasn't changed enough to bring something like this to pass. It won't happen. Maybe in a few generations, but not yet. At least not from what I can see. There is SOOO much more that grabs the news and the political timesheets.

    Also, I'm speaking as an American. I cannot speak for the status of other countries, since we are typically somewhat slow on the draw when it comes to policies like this.
    I feel like you're making points that seem obvious to anyone who is aware of the hypocrisy of our current drug laws, but following it up by essentially saying ignorant people are scared of what might happen.

    Yeah people thought society would crumble when they legalized marijuana in colorado, but turned out they were all hypochondriacs. I'm unwilling to tolerate or accept the slowing of logical progress to appease the consensus of the ignorant masses. Nor am I willing to accept said ignorance merely because it's a consensus.

    You went from saying it'll NEVER happen, to now it makes sense to you. Policies change all the time, especially when people are allowed to be open minded and actually educate themselves on the facts. If your opinion on it changed that quick, it shouldn't be that farfetched that others can be convinced...even then the old timers who are vehemently against all drugs because they were told to be and no other reasons are going to be dead soon.

    So it's up to us, the open minded youth who will inherit this earth to make the correct decisions relating to these drugs to improve the world for those who come after us. I'd rather do this through people who've done their research and know what they're talking about, like scarecrow, rather than acquiesce to fears of ignorant people who probably couldn't figure out the carb on a run of the mill pipe.
    Last edited by Vorpal; 04-14-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  4. #157844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    I personally think it makes sense to legalize MOST drugs (yes, meth and whatnot should stay illegal because they are just so incredibly harmful even to third parties). If you make it legal, you can regulate it. You can't "regulate" illegal drugs -- that philosophy is errant. I mean, we've got the Prohibition as evidence of this. OOO, alcohol was banned (actually I think it was hard liquor, but still). Enter speak-easies and moonshine and bootleggers. Prohibition get's lifted, all those vanish (with the exception of moonshine :P), and what remains we can actually regulate. Alcoholism is now, although widespread, at least manageable.

    Honestly, illegal or not I don't know many people who have not had contact with/used drugs at some point, which is proof of how the politics are wrong on this. Legalize it, then regulate it. And reap a nice profit on the side. Also, doing this with the top drugs like cocaine and marijuana and whatnot would eviscerate the cartels main cash-goods. By eviscerating the cartels, crime (and illegal immigration, tbh) would drop, particularly that which stems from gangs (crime in general might not be heavily impacted, but this area of crime would be dealt a huge blow).
    I'm all for the eventual legalization of most drugs too, but I do agree that it's potentially a risky idea to simply legalize everything. I don't know if singling out a few particular drugs to remain illegal is the way to do it, though - it might draw people to them out of curiosity. Exactly how to handle that particular can of worms is entirely up for debate though - as I said earlier, I was only talking about decriminalization earlier. I personally think things would probably work themselves out after a while even if everything were legal, since:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    I believe that the worst drugs like methamphetamine are only used because access to cleaner, less harmful substances has been restricted so much.
    Incidentally, alcohol also happens to be one of the worst drugs in my opinion. Like meth, I think its use would also decline rapidly if access to safer drugs were easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    All that said, I still stand by what I said earlier. No matter what you and I say, the general public opinion hasn't changed enough to bring something like this to pass. It won't happen. Maybe in a few generations, but not yet. At least not from what I can see. There is SOOO much more that grabs the news and the political timesheets.

    Also, I'm speaking as an American. I cannot speak for the status of other countries, since we are typically somewhat slow on the draw when it comes to policies like this.
    I think blanket decriminalization probably won't happen any time soon, but there's definitely slow and steady progress. What makes you think the way things unfold will be any different from the way marijuana's been progressing?

    After years of being illegal, research finally gets done -> Proven to have medical benefits -> Legal for medical use -> Public opinion improves as people realize that you don't become hitler by using it -> Decriminalization -> People realize it's actually pretty good -> Possibility of legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    the old timers who are vehemently against all drugs because they were told to be and no other reasons are going to be dead soon.
    I cannot understate the importance of this point. Ignorance isn't going to disappear overnight considering the amount of misinformation people have been fed, but the death of people like this idiot will do great things for humanity.

  5. #157845
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    @Vorp. I'm not backpedaling. I'm voicing the difference between an objective statement of fact (this ain't happening soon) and my own opinion (It makes sense). No position change. From what I read before my first post I got the feeling (wrongly) that Scarecrow was saying this would happen soon, and responded accordingly (bursting the bubble).

    ANYHOW...

    Yes, I think this will be a "one-step-at-a-time" process. Very tiny steps, but I think eventually there will be "acquired norms" that will be more and more accepting each generation.

    Spoiler for totally unrelated:
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
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  6. #157846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    @Vorp. I'm not backpedaling. I'm voicing the difference between an objective statement of fact (this ain't happening soon) and my own opinion (It makes sense). No position change. From what I read before my first post I got the feeling (wrongly) that Scarecrow was saying this would happen soon, and responded accordingly (bursting the bubble).

    ANYHOW...

    Yes, I think this will be a "one-step-at-a-time" process. Very tiny steps, but I think eventually there will be "acquired norms" that will be more and more accepting each generation.
    First of all, what you said is "All drugs will NEVER be legalized" not "it's not happening soon." That alone is proof that your opinion has been wavered.

    Not that I need to verify that to question the integrity of what you're saying, your so called "objective statement of fact" is lacking logical premesis which entail its conclusion. Which is why you've conveniently ignored all of Scarecrow's logic and barely glanced past my post too.

    I don't disagree with the notion that it wont be happening soon, but a blind acceptance of the ignorance you're allegedly devils advocating for will be the reason rather than logic. Which you've demonstrated.

    The person who got their bubble bursted was you, alpheaus, not scarecrow.
    Last edited by Vorpal; 04-15-2017 at 01:36 PM.

  7. #157847
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    Spiderman in a nutshell - A man uses his right hand to produce a white sticky substance, which he then shoots onto a guy's face.

  8. #157848
    Seņor MemeBar Alphaeus's Avatar
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    @Person lmao

    @Vorp

    To connect the two statements: I believe it will never happen, but IF it does, it will not be soon. Logical basis? Uh, we're still sending those fuckers to prison, without any chance of immediate change hitting congress. That's the logical proof. You find this on the congressional timesheet, I'll retract the statement.

    Also, popping my bubble? Lmao, I didn't even HAVE a bubble. Unlike dankers like yourself, this subject has literally zero relevance or importance to me, and I am discussing it as a mildly interesting topic that I really care little about in the big scheme of things, having stated only cursory opinions and the status quo. By definition I couldn't have had a "bubble with this." Saying I did is merely a malapropism of the colloquial idiom.

    Fuck yeah.

    MALAPROPISM OF THE COLLOQUIAL IDIOM

    Git rekt, you fucking DANKER.

    #accidentaleloquence

    XD
    My wRHG Char: The Fixer
    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
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  9. #157849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    @Person lmao

    @Vorp

    To connect the two statements: I believe it will never happen, but IF it does, it will not be soon. Logical basis? Uh, we're still sending those fuckers to prison, without any chance of immediate change hitting congress. That's the logical proof. You find this on the congressional timesheet, I'll retract the statement.

    Also, popping my bubble? Lmao, I didn't even HAVE a bubble. Unlike dankers like yourself, this subject has literally zero relevance or importance to me, and I am discussing it as a mildly interesting topic that I really care little about in the big scheme of things, having stated only cursory opinions and the status quo. By definition I couldn't have had a "bubble with this." Saying I did is merely a malapropism of the colloquial idiom.

    Fuck yeah.

    MALAPROPISM OF THE COLLOQUIAL IDIOM

    Git rekt, you fucking DANKER.

    #accidentaleloquence

    XD
    Lol okay, I guess you don't have to have any basis besides a shakey and debateable inductive arguement, need I remind you inductive arguments always have the potential for error?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaeus View Post
    objective statement of fact
    Weird it's almost like you didn't realize inductive arguements shouldn't be taken as objective facts or something, convincing as they may be you can't literally predict the future.
    Unless of course you had a bunch of other reasons?

    You don't seem like someone who had their bubble bursted at all, dropping quips as a deflection tactic though. Not at all.

    But I see what you're saying, you don't care about the subject. After all we shouldn't want to talk about it seriously just because we care about it, we shouldn't wonder why you're stating alleged "objective facts" but then claiming the topic has zero relevance or importance to you.
    That wouldn't be convenient to you.
    Last edited by Vorpal; 04-15-2017 at 04:50 PM.

  10. #157850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    That wouldn't be convenient to you.
    Just...

    No.

    -_-

    This was a casual discussion of which I cared little, and spent less than 5 mins writing and thinking about each post. Either you are taking this way too serious to get snarky with me, or way too sarcastic. Which is fine, I guess. Miffs me, but fine. And ahead of time I'm not continuing this, because it won't get either of us anywhere if we try to get the last word in on something unimportant.
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    "oh fuck yeah, taco, you've been naughty" ~ Vorpal
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