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Thread: Debate about Government

  1. #11
    The patient is LYING. Ash's Avatar
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    To me it seems that the only logical government is a democratic republic with a combination of socialism and capitalism as an economic system. Primarily because some things work well with capitalism (innovation in production, for example), whereas socialism is required to ensure that people's basic needs are met.

    A form of guaranteed basic income strikes a nice balance between capitalism and socialism, while avoiding the pitfalls of fully socializing, since people would still have the ability to "vote with their wallets" in the marketplace of ideas and goods.

  2. #12
    quack Salt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    To me it seems that the only logical government is a democratic republic with a combination of socialism and capitalism as an economic system. Primarily because some things work well with capitalism (innovation in production, for example), whereas socialism is required to ensure that people's basic needs are met.

    A form of guaranteed basic income strikes a nice balance between capitalism and socialism, while avoiding the pitfalls of fully socializing, since people would still have the ability to "vote with their wallets" in the marketplace of ideas and goods.
    The problem with this system, as much as I advocate for it, is that it assumes that all people are educated, selfless, and dedicated enough to make it work, which eventually is the best for everyone.
    In my opinion, within government and society, there needs to be this perfect balance of conformity and individuality. These standards that people should conform to, and the level of freedom and individuality people have access to, should depend on their level of education and willingness to be beneficial members of society. As societies progress or regress, the standards for each conformity and freedom are shifted in favor of whichever produces the highest quality of life for the whole of society. European countries are a great example of a highly educated and hard working society. People have enough freedom to be able to express themselves, to think of new ideas, and to innovate. Yet at the same time, there needs to be a level of conformity to certain social standards and laws so that things can run smoothly and to prevent all out anarchy.
    A socialist/capitalist democratic republic won't work well for a less educated populace, as they won't do their part properly and might not even know what's better for them as a whole. Stricter control is required that is gradually loosened until you have a smarter and more hard working population.
    However the people with most power at that level should be the most educated, the most empathetic, and the most humane, so that they are not overtaken by greed and end up keeping society under control of their whims no matter the results, which unfortunately is rarely the case in the real world.

  3. #13
    The patient is LYING. Ash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt View Post
    The problem with this system, as much as I advocate for it, is that it assumes that all people are educated, selfless, and dedicated enough to make it work, which eventually is the best for everyone.
    In my opinion, within government and society, there needs to be this perfect balance of conformity and individuality. These standards that people should conform to, and the level of freedom and individuality people have access to, should depend on their level of education and willingness to be beneficial members of society. As societies progress or regress, the standards for each conformity and freedom are shifted in favor of whichever produces the highest quality of life for the whole of society. European countries are a great example of a highly educated and hard working society. People have enough freedom to be able to express themselves, to think of new ideas, and to innovate. Yet at the same time, there needs to be a level of conformity to certain social standards and laws so that things can run smoothly and to prevent all out anarchy.
    A socialist/capitalist democratic republic won't work well for a less educated populace, as they won't do their part properly and might not even know what's better for them as a whole. Stricter control is required that is gradually loosened until you have a smarter and more hard working population.
    However the people with most power at that level should be the most educated, the most empathetic, and the most humane, so that they are not overtaken by greed and end up keeping society under control of their whims no matter the results, which unfortunately is rarely the case in the real world.

    The challenge with "stricter control" is that in practice it usually means artificial voting restrictions. That can be a very dangerous road to tread.

  4. #14
    quack Salt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    The challenge with "stricter control" is that in practice it usually means artificial voting restrictions. That can be a very dangerous road to tread.
    Yeah that's why I said this never really works properly in real life, because it's so easy to abuse.

  5. #15
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    Communist- System where the government controls the commonwealth of the people, and owns their land and businesses, this can quickly become a dictatorship. ~IgnusBurns

    Well read this.
    http://www.differencebetween.net/mis...-dictatorship/

  6. #16
    block of granite Root's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Person McPerson View Post
    Communist- System where the government controls the commonwealth of the people, and owns their land and businesses, this can quickly become a dictatorship. ~IgnusBurns

    Well read this.
    http://www.differencebetween.net/mis...-dictatorship/
    He's not saying they're the same thing, he is accurately stating that the communist model is easy to abuse by leaders due to gigantic government regulation, which means that most countries using the system quickly become totalitarian societies.

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  7. #17
    ლ(ಠᨎಠლ) IgnusBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Root View Post
    He's not saying they're the same thing, he is accurately stating that the communist model is easy to abuse by leaders due to gigantic government regulation, which means that most countries using the system quickly become totalitarian societies.
    Yeah, that's what I was saying in the first place, thanks Root... A good example of that happening is when Stalin was in charge of Russia, it went from Socialism to a full on dictatorship.
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  8. #18
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    The only things the government needs to do: Control the police, obviously for the reason of protecting people's property and well-being. Similarly, the military is a matter of state-- it can't be controlled by a large, fluid group. Neither of these organizations can be controlled privately because, really, lethal force and law enforcement can't be left to the interests of profit or personal gain. The only other functions to be performed by the government are tax collection and the provision of just enough income to survive plus slightly more to have some upward mobility for the poorest people in the country.

    All other functions of the government can be handled with the wonderful forces of the invisible hand.
    I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.

  9. #19
    ლ(ಠᨎಠლ) IgnusBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poisonchocolate View Post
    The only things the government needs to do: Control the police, obviously for the reason of protecting people's property and well-being. Similarly, the military is a matter of state-- it can't be controlled by a large, fluid group. Neither of these organizations can be controlled privately because, really, lethal force and law enforcement can't be left to the interests of profit or personal gain. The only other functions to be performed by the government are tax collection and the provision of just enough income to survive plus slightly more to have some upward mobility for the poorest people in the country.

    All other functions of the government can be handled with the wonderful forces of the invisible hand.
    Wow, seeing all these replies makes me realize I'm a drop of idiot (in my eyes) in a sea of geniuses... XD
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  10. #20
    Heartless poisonchocolate's Avatar
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    Ah, I'm sure you aren't worse than most of the population of America (or really any country). I'm just someone who loves studying history, politics, economics, government, etc. History is just incredibly interesting-- it's like the worlds best-written story, but it's real. It has real people, real pictures, real artifacts. Too cool.
    I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.

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