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Trialocracy

Started by: devi | Replies: 7 | Views: 1,045

devi

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Aug 23, 2016 1:36 PM #1458670
So during my summer break, I had decided to start writing a book. Specifically "fantasy", but I'm not here to advertise. You see, one of these people that I am putting into this world has something called a trialocracy, which is explained below. The ultimate reason I'm posting this here is because I would like everyone's opinion and/or critique on it. I don't expect this to be a perfect utopian government, but I would like some help to properly flesh this out so it can feel much more alive as I write it in the book.

Even if you don't write anything in response, I do still appreciate you taking the time to read it.

*Clears throat*

Trialocracy (Click to Show)


Now I know this would be more than a fantasy to think any place in the world would change to a trialocracy, but does anyone think something like this could actually be successfully implemented with humans.
Exile
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Aug 23, 2016 2:09 PM #1458674
Not unless you explain what these tests are actually looking for. Maybe a single example of a question on this "are you fit to be a dictator?" test.

I like the concept of this 'trialocracy' but you seem to have taken the lazy route by not even explaining what the trails consist of, which is where this idea actually becomes interesting. I mean you have this example: Such tests vary from people to people, a society that values intelligence might have tests that have to do with one owns intellect and so forth. But why would a society of intellectuals fail to recognize that raw intellect is not the only quality that makes someone an effective leader? Being smart doesn't automatically make you a capable leader.
devi

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Aug 23, 2016 2:20 PM #1458675
If we were doing a leader, then the tests would have a lot to do with scenarios and how the person would act. "A rival kingdom threatens you with war. They have one large army that is already marching onto your capital. You have the choices of leading you military out in glorious conquest in which your people may escape, hold out in what settlements you have and dig yourselves in thicker than rock or try and seek a peaceful solution." or something like that.

The tests are effectively ways to check if a person is competent or not for the job. A person who wants to be a warrior has to fight against another warriors within the army and win, or simply have to be able to lift a certain weight.

Quote from Exile
I like the concept of this 'trialocracy' but you seem to have taken the lazy route by not even explaining what the trials consist of, which is where this idea actually becomes interesting. I mean you have this example: Such tests vary from people to people, a society that values intelligence might have tests that have to do with one owns intellect and so forth. But why would a society of intellectuals fail to recognize that raw intellect is not the only quality that makes someone an effective leader? Being smart doesn't automatically make you a capable leader.


mmm, I see your point. I suppose the way I was thinking it was more Knowledge that intelligence, where one would be tested to see exactly how much one know of the surrounding world, where the expectation would be that you would then build upon this knowledge and thus increasing the length of the test. Which is vastly different from intelligence

If it was more intelligence then I think it would be similar to wisdom, but more about being able to use it in ways that benefit you or others. They'd effectively be doing IQ tests to find out if one was good or not for leading.

Edit: Fuck, I misunderstood.

In more intelligent societies, they would focus a bit more rounded but with a focus on knowledge and raw intelligence, not to mention they would also be looking for out of the box answers, looking at the questions and tests at different angles so one would always find some form of solution to a problem. They'd also include the scenarios as mentioned above, as the ability to make hard decisions is also a trait such a society would want.

But this is good, I want to see whats wrong. I'm terrible at being critical of my own creations.
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Aug 23, 2016 2:51 PM #1458680
That would be a good example for a test that determines whether someone should be given a position as a military strategist or something, but these tests are to determine who gets to have absolute power. Presumably over international trade and economics, social justice, public services and infrastructure, legislation, the entire military... tests exist for all of these things and these potential leaders need to pass all of them?

My issue is these test results are inherently open to interpretation, and I don't understand why the people qualified to write these tests and interpret the answers aren't simply put into the position of power themselves. You necessarily need to have intimate knowledge of the subject matter to be able to do those things and if knowledge is what makes a good candidate for leadership, why don't the test creators just run things themselves?

Maybe if you had a council of leaders for each area of society, this idea would make more sense. Perhaps the person who excels in public speaking, charisma, management, etc. can be the figurehead/president/whatever. I can see a society running military-related trials and tests to determine a new commander in chief, but I can't see a society placing absolute power in the hands of one person who somehow excels at all of these incredibly broad and unrelated bodies of knowledge.
devi

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Aug 23, 2016 3:08 PM #1458684
Quote from Exile
That would be a good example for a test that determines whether someone should be given a position as a military strategist or something, but these tests are to determine who gets to have absolute power. Presumably over international trade and economics, social justice, public services and infrastructure, legislation, the entire military... tests exist for all of these things and these potential leaders need to pass all of them?


That's why the process can be a bit dangerous when electing a new leader, as time goes on and people get more intelligent, the requirements for the tests will keep on rising. As more and more ideas are discovered, the tests will get longer and more complex to really weed out the leader the country needs. But yes, they do need to pass all the tests, but once more it depends on the country. This is why countries we have now for example would be so hard and long to complete as the requirement for knowledge only goes upwards. I can imagine like during the times of early civilization it would be easier, as there would be much less that needs to be known. One solution I think would be a country to have their leader only be tested on skills that is believed to be the highest importance, so that the leader can then appoint others that would do a better job than him in another area.

One of the largest problems, from my thoughts anyway, is that the people designing these tests can be overly critical or simply expecting too much to the point where they want perfection.

Quote from Exile
My issue is these test results are inherently open to interpretation, and I don't understand why the people qualified to write these tests and interpret the answers aren't simply put into the position of power themselves. You necessarily need to have intimate knowledge of the subject matter to be able to do those things and if knowledge is what makes a good candidate for leadership, why don't the test creators just run things themselves?


Well the thought train I had was that leaders are the ones that design the tests in the first place. Taking the example that the first leader that unites their people into one tribe creates a test that is to ensure the worthiness of the next person that wants to rule. What if there was a special rule where the next leader must create the next test that must be done to gain leadership. That way, you have the one before that the leader did, but new ideas that the leader believes would be important and so adds to it, raising the bar higher. But whether to not this needs to be approved by the experts or not depends.

Quote from Exile
Maybe if you had a council of leaders for each area of society, this idea would make more sense. Perhaps the person who excels in public speaking, charisma, management, etc. can be the figurehead/president/whatever. I can see a society running military-related trials and tests to determine a new commander in chief, but I can't see a society placing absolute power in the hands of one person who somehow excels at all of these incredibly broad and unrelated bodies of knowledge.


That's why experts exist, they can effectively be mini leaders in their own regard that are specialized in an area. They are especially useful to the leader since they have the knowledge he would require to effectively govern a area. But yeah I agree, a society that wants someone who excels at everything probably isn't going to have a leader in a very long time. So like I mentioned before, they have the leader specialize and then either appoint or let the experts take care of the missing spots.
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Aug 23, 2016 3:25 PM #1458687
It's a cool idea. Just need to pay attention to the details and really flesh out the world and social order you're creating here, and you'll need to have a pretty good grasp on politics in general to be able to do this convincingly. I can see a lot of potential for conflict and tension in the story if it's done right.
devi

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Aug 23, 2016 3:37 PM #1458689
My plan is for the first book (There's going to be three) is basically me setting up the world that the books are played in, but the second is going to be more of an in-depth look into it. But yeah, politics is something I'm going to have to have a much more better understanding so I can properly make it work. I'll be sure to do research.

Thanks, Exile!
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Aug 31, 2016 10:38 PM #1459435
All in all, not going to say tons, because I see Exile already did a good job of that.

My point would be why would the tests cover only one topic? I mean, in my mind, if I wanted a leader, I would have tests in a whole bunch of different areas, and pick the person who got the best overall score.

Okay, so you're super intelligent. But you are 80% blind, 70% deaf, and legless. And 98 years old, which means we'll have to run the tests again in less then ten years when you die. You're not a good leader, even though you won that single test series.

I would test on intelligence, combat skills, insight, oratory, and ethics (there could be more, but this is just a summarization). Then you take a look at these five scores. "Well now, Mr. Jo-jo scored 1st in intelligence and oratory, but failed the other three. Mr. Chuckles, however, scored 2nd in intel, 3rd in combat, 2st in insight, 2nd in oratory, and 2st in ethics. He might not be the best in any single category, but he's only only contender that made it to the top two or three in all the tests."

One single test does not a leader make. A single test would make one of your experts. A score that is high all across the board is what would make a leader of this society, in my mind.
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