Are books like 1984 and Brane New World like prophecies?

Started by: MiniMan | Replies: 8 | Views: 1,767

MiniMan
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Aug 30, 2008 12:19 AM #238622
Copy pasta from FP.

How our societies are becoming like those in dystopian fiction.



This thread covers my point of view, my perspective on control of common people and how they resemble dystopian fiction.

This thread requires some background knowledge on mainstream dystopian books and how dystopian societies work.

The books you require knowledge of are ;

Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K Dick
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Nineteen Eighty Four by George Orwell.


So let's begin.




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Comparision #1. Were we at war with Eastasia or Eurasia?


First off. Let's look at the wars the SUPER-POWER the United States of America are currently or very recently engaged with.

Ask yourself. In the book, Nineteen Eighty Four, Winston Smith is confused by the wars being fought by his super-state. Was it Eastasia we hate? Or do we hate Eurasia? The wars are frequent, the peace brief until the lines dividing each war becomes blurred and you are confused about what country you want dead.

Iraq.

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Afghanistan.

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Both countries give the same mental image, hostile foreigners, a battlefield far away from home. Both the same, yet not. Eastasia and Eurasia, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Osama Bin Ladin is our Goldstein. His creed is held up for all to see and shown to be lies.

Osama Bin Ladin is hiding, somewhere somehow in caves according to the officials.

And so is Emmanuel Goldstein, the 'enemy of the Party'. Winston remarks that, not unlike Osama, Goldstein who is the biggest threat to the Party is, ''Somewhere or other, he was still alive and hatching his conspiracies''


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Comparision #2. Those ****ing kids again.

In both books, Nineteen Eighty Four and Fahrenheit 451, children are seen as absolute horrors.


In Nineteen Eighty Four, children are signed up for an association called the Spies where they love everything they are taught.

The military processions.

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The customes.

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(And what the ****, they even have a statue of an 'ideal Scout?' Remind you of a certain Comrade Withers?)

They are totally ignorant that they're denouncing their parents under false pretences. This relates to modern day terms by the Boy Scout's rule of not allowing homosexuals or atheists to join a government-funded organization. And having control of the Boy Scouts by the Mormon church as the source of the discrimination. Instead of their parents, it's now persecution of their kin, their brothers of species. The Boy Scouts are breeding haters. Child horrors.

In Fahrenheit 451, children in Clarisse McClellan's school are said to "head to the Fun Park to bully people around, or go to the Window Smasher place to smash windows and the Car Wrecker place to wreck cars with a huge steel ball."

Guy Montag, whilst fleeing the police, nearly got hit by a pack of kids in a car. Despite a very near miss, the children sped away, apparently gleeful that they nearly killed someone. Isn't this very similar to something else?

I often see underaged persons posting the willingness of joining their countries' army for the thrill of being in a real life Counter-Strike Source. Apparently, the immorality of killing a fellow human being is lost in the blur of thrill and adrenaline. Just like the children in 1984 not realising that they're killing tools of the government because they get so worked with hangings, toy pistols and the parades.


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"It was a good job it was not a real pistol he was holding,thought Winston."


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Comparison #3 : IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Ignorance is strength. One of the key themes of Nineteen Eighty Four. Fahrenheit 451 relates strongly to this. And so does Brave New World.


Nineteen Eighty Four, the words IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH is plasted everywhere, as a message of encouragement of Doublethink. However, this has some truth. Ignorance is strength. However, not strength for you personally, but strength for the government.

You don't get the knowledge that your chocolate rations are being slashed in half every day, instead, you're fed with good news. So you don't complain. And thus, this brings about an ignorant society, unavailable to see that their government is becoming more and more powerful because you believe whatever's being thrust at you. Ignorance is Strength. Strength for the government.

Remind you of anything?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONICYAHcTcc

Brave New World's citizens are filled to the brim with pleasure. One could say that they are blind with pleasure. Instead of dealing with their problems, instead of fighting the injustice, they shoot themselves full of soma and they go to a colorful world where every problem is a gentle bubble, popping away gently.

Yes, shoot yourself so you get so high, so high and so high till you forget the injustice that was done against you and become an ignorant citizen, too happy to protest.

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Comparison #4 : thereisno131(AWAY) says (19:20) : Hey man, check out my new iPod.


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That's right. Plug your ears, mute the sound of the outside world. You shut out the world entirely with your trendy iPod. You just want the world to leave you alone, just you, your iPod and your Starbucks coffee. Just you. Blocking out the world. You are isolating yourself from real people.



Funnily enough, Fahrenheit 451, which is written in 1947, long before the first WALKMAN came out, has 'Seashells' which Mildred frequently uses, instead of listening to her husband.

Mildred shows further proof of this as she engages in favour of illegal books once a certain subject is named.


He opened another book. "That favourite subject, Myself."
''I understand that one" said Mildred.


Moreover, she refers to the people on the television as her 'family'. While she pays constant attention to these works of fiction, by being glued to the television walls, she ignores her real family, her husband.

In Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, the main character, is shown to obsess more on his animals, both electric and real, than on his wife. Moreover, in the books, he is potrayed to engage in sex with a female android, showing the detachness of people from other people. Instead relating more to their technology than other fellow beings.

Yes. We go out everyday, our ears blasted with rock, ignoring the world. Once we reach our computers, we "network" with people, on forums, on websites, to "socialise".

Look at it. It's ****ing pathetic. Get out, go out, move on, meet real people, not profiles.

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I think that's about enough for now, feel free to argue with me on why my points are wrong, or give some other points/comments of your own.



No, I don't hate our society today, but we can be better than we are now. We are on the road to self-destruction, if we don't stop this mass madness right now, we're ****ed. (and I just thought that it was kinda cool how Dystopian novels are like prophecies.)
Real cereal man

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Aug 30, 2008 12:41 AM #238645
So do fish REALLY get thirsty?
Shanto
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Aug 30, 2008 1:21 AM #238673
I didn't read anything you just said.

Srsly.
Jeremy
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Aug 30, 2008 1:48 AM #238686
Wow, right after exilement posted that thing saying that the mods would delete any spam posts from the debate section...Great job!

I liked the article, it made sense, but was kind of irrational. Ipods and facebook aren't ruining the world and they don't need to be taken down or given any less attention, its a human problem not a intimation one.
Dragon⁰⁷⁷
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Aug 30, 2008 2:09 AM #238688
THE WORLD ISN'T PERFECT????? REALLY??????? IT MUST BE THEN THAT WE ARE ALL GOING TO GO DOWN THE 1984 ROUTE OBVIOUSLY DUH. iPODS ARE KILLING US ALL OBVIOUSLY.

This is ridiculous. Have you ever looked at the world around you (besides a Google image search)?
MiniMan
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Aug 30, 2008 2:16 AM #238694
Quote from Jeremy
Wow, right after exilement posted that thing saying that the mods would delete any spam posts from the debate section...Great job!

I liked the article, it made sense, but was kind of irrational. Ipods and facebook aren't ruining the world and they don't need to be taken down or given any less attention, its a human problem not a intimation one.
Yeah, that's why I pointed out it was copypasta. The only ones I agree with are the Iraq/Afganistan war and the boy scouts. I don't think Facebook and iPods are ruining society, I love technology although O do believe one day it will bite us in the ass, it just won't come in the form of an 80GB mp3 player.
Dragon⁰⁷⁷
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Aug 30, 2008 2:18 AM #238695
Quote from MiniMan
Yeah, that's why I pointed out it was copypasta. The only ones I agree with are the Iraq/Afganistan war and the boy scouts. I don't think Facebook and iPods are ruining society, I love technology although O do believe one day it will bite us in the ass, it just won't come in the form of an 80GB mp3 player.

Do you have the email of whoever wrote this crap?
MiniMan
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Aug 30, 2008 2:25 AM #238700
No, but I got a source.

http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/showthread.php?t=601561
Exile
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Aug 30, 2008 8:47 AM #238907
Quote from Jeremy
Wow, right after exilement posted that thing saying that the mods would delete any spam posts from the debate section...Great job!

I liked the article, it made sense, but was kind of irrational. Ipods and facebook aren't ruining the world and they don't need to be taken down or given any less attention, its a human problem not a intimation one.


Agreed with both points here. Cereal man can enjoy his ban, I don't even know how long it's for but I don't care at this point.

I guess the first point made sense, but none of the others did. Boy Scouts doesn't teach children to hate, and the "no homosexuals/atheists" is more of a don't ask, don't tell policy. The rest was even worse.

All in all, having a few slim things in common with themes in works of fiction doesn't imply that we're on our way to a dystopia. I'm pretty sure that's a logical fallacy but I can't be bothered to figure out which one.