Well, I have nothing against Christmas - especially as a Christian myself. However, lately I've been noticing more than any other year how commercialised it's become. I don't know if that's the case in other countries, but it sure is in the UK.

Now, I have nothing against non-Christians celebrating Christmas. I wish it wasn't the case, but for non-Christians, Christmas is about good will and happiness, rather than celebrating the life of Christ. I admit at first I thought that was awful (I'd always been bought up believing everyone that celebrated Christmas did it just to celebrate Jesus' life [birth in particular]), but now I see that that is the way a lot of people think. I'm even assuming Atheists like Ash might celebrate it; though maybe not even call it "Christmas". However, this is not the point in the debate.

It was a week after my birthday (the very beginning of November) that I noticed signs up in pubs saying "Book your Christmas meal now", and I noticed shops were - and already had been - selling Christmas gifts. I also noticed, every other (if not every) advert on TV now had something to do with christmas (i.e. "come buy persil washing up liquid - it's now half price for Christmas"). And it now seems that everyone and everywhere has become intent on buying just about everything that they can. People have even gone into debt to get presents. I know this isn't anything new, but it's just come to my attention how bad it's become. Maybe the credit crunch will stop it in it's tracks, but that might not be a good thing after all.

tl;dr: ITT: Christmas, discuss

What are your opinions on all that I've said?

Jesus was born around march.
End.

I don't really see what you're debating about. Christmas being a holiday for places to make more money? To have better sales?
There's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not a christian, but I celebrate Christmas as a holiday. Because that's all it is now. I never will and never have seen it in a way we should be celebrating a mans birth. We celebrate it as a family, to buy them things and show them our love through that. We make it a day show it's about giving (and taking).
If you have a product and want to have it selling better, what better way than to use a worldwide event. People hear the words "half price" and think "oh, goody". People hear the word "Christmas" and think "SHIT YEAH". Why not put those words together to give a "OH, SHIT YEAH THAT'S A GOODY" effect?

Now, my problems with Christmas is that Christians (Well, I've argued with one about this, but grouping them together makes it sound better), is that they complain about it being a day to celebrate Jesus' birth. My argument is simply: You made this event this big, you made the idol some fat bloke in a red suit, not Jesus. Some of you may have told kids Jesus is going to bring you presents, because getting shit from people is awesome and just so much better as a kid, but I'm not from a religious family and I got told "Santa" was doing that.
If it was Jesus, only Christians would celebrate it. If the whole point of Christmas hadn't changed to some day where you have to go out your way to give everybody another Birthday of their own, then it would be a pretty boring event. It's exciting, it's a fun day. It's a day where you get up early hours even if it is a weekend just to unwrap something and say "thanks".
When I think of christmas I think of decorated trees, santa, buying presents and something I may want that year.

The point is: Christmas is just a holiday, an event for all. I don't see it as anything else, because, quite frankly, It doesn't matter when you can be enjoying it.

Forgive me if I've just created an amount of senseless rambling, I've only had 2 hours sleep in the past 60 hours.

well if you want my opinion... and i belive that everyone has the right to thier own opinion... then i say that, being a non-Christian, I have always belived that it was just covering up another holiday of another religion.... but that is wat i think about it thou... but I may not be right at all but i think that is why christmas is here... Also it is here for Good will and Joy and a time for families to get together and become joyous(I think i spelt that right), but that is wat i think... If you people disagree then that is your opinion... not mine.. lol

OHHHH NOOOO CRISTMUS IS SOOOOO COMERRCIAL OMG I WUNT SELEBRATE IT IF ITS ONLY COMMERCE!!!!!1


Yeah dude, we got it. Decades ago.

I find most commercials to be laughable, plus I rarely watch TV or even buy things anymore, so my Christmas is as noncommercial as ever. However there's always going to be someone wanting to make a quick buck, and the holidays are unfortunately the prime place to do it.

Christmas: not just about Jesus getting crucified anymore.

Quote from LakE

I don't really see what you're debating about. Christmas being a holiday for places to make more money? To have better sales?
There's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not a christian, but I celebrate Christmas as a holiday. Because that's all it is now. I never will and never have seen it in a way we should be celebrating a mans birth. We celebrate it as a family, to buy them things and show them our love through that. We make it a day show it's about giving (and taking).
If you have a product and want to have it selling better, what better way than to use a worldwide event. People hear the words "half price" and think "oh, goody". People hear the word "Christmas" and think "SHIT YEAH". Why not put those words together to give a "OH, SHIT YEAH THAT'S A GOODY" effect?

Now, my problems with Christmas is that Christians (Well, I've argued with one about this, but grouping them together makes it sound better), is that they complain about it being a day to celebrate Jesus' birth. My argument is simply: You made this event this big, you made the idol some fat bloke in a red suit, not Jesus. Some of you may have told kids Jesus is going to bring you presents, because getting shit from people is awesome and just so much better as a kid, but I'm not from a religious family and I got told "Santa" was doing that.
If it was Jesus, only Christians would celebrate it. If the whole point of Christmas hadn't changed to some day where you have to go out your way to give everybody another Birthday of their own, then it would be a pretty boring event. It's exciting, it's a fun day. It's a day where you get up early hours even if it is a weekend just to unwrap something and say "thanks".
When I think of christmas I think of decorated trees, santa, buying presents and something I may want that year.

The point is: Christmas is just a holiday, an event for all. I don't see it as anything else, because, quite frankly, It doesn't matter when you can be enjoying it.

Forgive me if I've just created an amount of senseless rambling, I've only had 2 hours sleep in the past 60 hours.

How do you even know that Christians created/idolized Santa? This is so stereotypical it's not even funny.

Everyone who's not catholic: it's just a holiday now; the religious meaning has been sucked out dry. It's simply a fun holiday, so deal with it.
Everyone who is catholic: It doesn't matter what day Jesus was born on specifically, because Christmas is still a religious holiday. In fact, most of the religious calender is based on weeks during the month instead of specific days. Saying that Christmas has been economized by businesses over the years isn't a justifiable reason to celebrate it.

Yes, I generalized. But seriously, I find it quite stupid that people just celebrate Christmas for the good times. That's pretty much like saying: "Hey, lets go all go celebrate kwanzaa now! Forget what it was originally about, let's just buy each other gifts, have parties and drink a specific alcoholic beverage".

Quote from WiseShadows

well if you want my opinion... and i belive that everyone has the right to thier own opinion... then i say that, being a non-Christian, I have always belived that it was just covering up another holiday of another religion.... but that is wat i think about it thou... but I may not be right at all but i think that is why christmas is here... Also it is here for Good will and Joy and a time for families to get together and become joyous(I think i spelt that right), but that is wat i think... If you people disagree then that is your opinion... not mine.. lol

...what?

Yeah christmas is commercialized, as with every other holiday and excuse to get drunk. Really what isn't commercialized these days?

Quote from zawmbee

Jesus was born around march.
End.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL funny.:happy:

Christmas in America is as commercialized as ever. Celebrating the birth of christ? Holiday spirit? Good will and cheer? **** all that. It's all about buying things.

Disgusting, but old news.

I feel good when I give people things and I feel good when I get things from people, that's where it ends for me. The "spirit" of the holiday is still there, its giving things and being grateful and thankful.

Quote from Slayer

Christmas in America is as commercialized as ever. Celebrating the birth of christ? Holiday spirit? Good will and cheer? **** all that. It's all about buying things.

Disgusting, but old news.

I agree with you on that one, Slayer... that is all people think about these days

That was an astute observation: I do celebrate Christmas, and around friends use the names "Santa Day", "Decemberween", or "Crimbo" interchangeably.

However, with my family around I call it Christmas, because my family doesn't know that I am an atheist, and I want to soften them up over a long period of time before I tell them.

@Ash. Major facepalm here, reporting for duty sir. If you aren't going to call it ****ing Christmas, don't celebrate it. And ****ing come out of the closet already. Better to get it done, quickly and relatively painlessly. As otherwise you are just yet another flip flopping politically correct modern day man, with no spine.

Anyway, Christmas is commercial simply because in the West, Christianity is/was the dominant religion for hundreds of years. Hence why it has a massive market.

@LakE. Where the hell did you pull "Christians invented and idolized Santa, and therefore it is our fault that Christmas is now commercial?

Originally, there was a lad call Saint Nicolas, who would give out chocolate and little treats on the 5th of December, to nice kids, and coal to the ones with shit rep. This then got interpreted and re-interpreted by various cultures until we end up with the jolly red man that we have today.

tl;dr.

If your not Christian, don't celebrate Christmas, actually do. Don't ****ing call it something stupid like Decemberween, or what ever. Call it Saint Nicks day or something. You know that actually still has some grounding in the origin of the holiday

Quote from Steyene

@LakE. Where the hell did you pull "Christians invented and idolized Santa, and therefore it is our fault that Christmas is now commercial?

Originally, there was a lad call Saint Nicolas, who would give out chocolate and little treats on the 5th of December, to nice kids, and coal to the ones with shit rep. This then got interpreted and re-interpreted by various cultures until we end up with the jolly red man that we have today.

I'm aware that it didn't come out the way I intended it to. I don't remember saying Christians invented santa, though. I simply said that they made him the idol of christmas. They could have said "No. This is about Jesus and has nothing to do with him." But, they didn't. They allowed that to become the thing we most relate to with Christmas.
Well, it's not like somebody who doesn't believe in Christmas commercialized it. A jew wouldn't make Christmas a big event over the television. You can't blame any other religion for making YOUR religious holiday (which isn't really that religious anymore) such a popular thing among everyday lives.

Before "Well, there's non-christians who celebrate it, what's saying it's not them who commercialize it."; There is still fingers pointing towards christians since they must have changed the meaning of it theirself at some point to make it feel like a less religious holiday and more of a "give shit, take shit" holiday. It's not like a group of people came along and said "we change the meaning of Christmas now. it is this and not that". They would have had their asses handed to them.