Do memes exist?

I'm not talking about internet memes here (Though they are included in this theory), I'm talking about the field of social sciences called memetics, the idea that units of culture, or memes, reproduce through heredity and transmission, and that some are better suited to transfer than others.

To give you an idea of what this means, think of a catchy rhyme in German. This would be a meme (any given unit of culture can be called a meme) and in Germany, it would be more likely to be passed on through recitation than it would in the United States of America, where it is unsuited to survival, because it isn't as catchy to English speakers.

The idea of memetics came about from a metaphor used by Richard Dawkins, but caught on.

The thing that makes memetics so interesting is the similarity between it and genetics, from where it gets its name. ("Meme" is pronounced "MEEEEM" like "GENE")

Memetics is so analogous to genetics that one could even draw an analogy between a cell carrying DNA made up of lots of genes and a whole whole group of people carrying a culture made up of lots of memes. Advancement in understanding of memetics could even lead to advancements in genetics.

So, the debate is this:
Is memetics a valid field of study on par with genetics? Or is it just bullshit?



Wiki Article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Bullshit really as it comes down to a personal opinion which you can't study properly unless you go to every single source of the memtics' change.

Actually, you CAN study it. There has been a whole field of study that has arisen dealing with it.

i believe in evolution, the question is....... do you??

Quote from Ash

Actually, you CAN study it. There has been a whole field of study that has arisen dealing with it.

you're really dumb.

so apparently an entire study has risen to dealing with... common sense? Of ****ing course something in German will be more popular in Germany, that's not a study, that's a goddamned fact that anyone anywhere would be able to tell you. Of ****ing course a culture is going to have ideas because that's what a culture is. It's like these idiots just decided to say "hmmm... people like this stuff, and then they tell other people, and then some people like some stuff more than others! Let's make a whole science based off of it! It's not like there's a basic human function called an opinion that would make all of this utterly and completely stupid."

Quote from Ash

Advancement in understanding of memetics could even lead to advancements in genetics

I want everyone to see this quote.

Also, I think I will sig it.

"Hey guise! Look whose all stupid cuz he didn't do his research lolololol! Let's all laugh. What are we on about again?"

Oh dear god, common sense is grouped and researched now?

You guys are idiots. Seriously.

Memes aren't just "common sense", there are more subtle effects on transmission. Just becasue something is abstract doesn't mean it can't be studied.

And I don't see how you idiots can't see the way this field could lead to advancements in psycology and genetics. Since memes are transmitted in the same way genes are transmitted, we can use each field to understand the other.


The study of memetics can help us understand more about the human brain as well, because it can show us why humans are more receptive to certain units of culture than others, and how memes relate to each other within the culture.

Furthermore, it can help us understand history better. We can discover how ideas such as communism and traits of hero figures were more receptive in some areas of the world than others, and predict how new units of culture can be more effectively transmitted.

I dont get this. Seriously. Culture effects like songs and sayings can help us further our ability to understand genetics?

Sounds like ... Crazy talk.

Think about it like this.

A "unit of culture" can be anything. A song, a proverb, a dance, a political ideology, being pro-choice, fashion, etc.

Memetics is supposed to predict what dances, polical ideologies, religions, etc. are better at being transmitted than others. For instance, given the prevalence of religions with "merciful" gods in the world, it is obvious that religions whose god is nice are more likely to be transmitted than others. One might argue "But that's common sense", but the thing is, there are actually more sublte factors in transmission. For instance, Judaism and Christianity both share a large part of their doctrine (The Old Testament) but Christianity appears much nicer, what with Jesus and all that, and so it was better suited to transmission than Judaism, which is how it got its start as a little cult and quickly rose to the popularity it enjoys today.

But we can actually go more in-depth than that. Consider that there are thousands of legendary hero-figures throughout the world that are born of a virgin. Some of these, like Jesus, Hercules, and Oedipus, are really well-known. Perhaps this characteristic in particular contributes to the success of a hero character in being transmitted? Or maybe characters with beards? Or perhaps "Average Joe" characters in the 21st century? They are really popular.



The whole idea of memetics is to apply the same principles of natural selection that we have for genes to units of culture as well. It's a way of thinking about culture that can help us understand exactly what defines cultures.

That sounds pretty whacked out.

It is very odd and abstract, but it actually makes accurate predictions about the world.

Thoughts ripple outwards. Sometimes they spark more ripples, when something resonates strongly with previous memories.


People only notice when the ripples get big enough.

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