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Quote from Ash

What, people with intelligence/the ability to question authority?
I guarantee I know more about the bible than you. I have read it cover to cover twice. Did you know that your bible says god can't defeat iron chariots? Omnipotent my foot. Go read Judges 1:19.

And did you know that Lot, the "good guy" of Sodom and Gammorah, impregnated his two daughters shortly after offering them as a subsitute for his house guests when the people of Sodom and Gammorah wanted to rape his visitors, who were also angels, by the way?

Before you start assuming the bible is so infallible, why note go read it yourself.

As has been said before, there's no quicker way to speeding up a deconversion to atheism than reading the bible.


What, rationally? I don't see how that has anything to do with being violent.

Thank you for coming to my level of debating.

Judges 1:19
Now the Lord* was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants because they had iron chariots.

*note: this is also found as the Holy Spirit in some versions
It also translates to "The Lord was for Judah" , you may say "on his side"
now, lets flip over to some places in the bible that explain this clearer. You'll find these in a concordance bible.

Numbers 10:29-32
~it's a bit large to quote, so I'll explain it to you, and if you want, go there yourself~
basically, this shows that this piece of land was promised to them and that they Would get it.

Joshua 6:26
~an oath is made, relating to the land~

________
Now, Sodom and Gomorrah...you're not going to be able to stop a city of men and women drunken with alcohol and sin that easily by just saying, "no, go away".
Now, if you had higher beings sent from the creator of all things in your house and there was a mob of people trying to take and do anything to them, I know I sure would not let them, Lot was obviously thinking fast and picked what seemed most reasonable at the time. In concordance, the daughters went out to the people because Lot told them to(the commandment of obeying your parents was taken literally, you can find that even Jesus obeys Mary in Luke 2:39-52).

_______
now, I know I can take offense in some small things that you think shouldn't matter.

..."there's no quicker way to speeding up a conversion from atheism than reading the bible.
" eh? I'll be sure to keep it in mind.

moar?

Quote from Ustartin

For me, evolution is a theory and is as credible as God creating the Earth in six days.

I simply cannot believe that every cell in my body was from a product of genetic freaks with dominant genes.

People say "Pfft, how could God have created the Universe in only six days?". This question annoys me greatly as the whole idea of God is that his power is limitless.

I honestly think they both hold as much water as one another. I can almost hear you now thinking "but there's evidence of evolution!". No, there's no evidence. Just some skulls of what could equally be a species which died out thousands of years ago. Just because it's similar to us that does not mean it's related to us.

My Dad has a friend who's got some disorders and he's got an overhanging brow, his jaw sticks out forward, a hunch in his back, and his hands sorta reach his knee's.

Quote from Ustartin

For me, evolution is a theory and is as credible as God creating the Earth in six days.

I simply cannot believe that every cell in my body was from a product of genetic freaks with dominant genes.

People say "Pfft, how could God have created the Universe in only six days?". This question annoys me greatly as the whole idea of God is that his power is limitless.

I honestly think they both hold as much water as one another. I can almost hear you now thinking "but there's evidence of evolution!". No, there's no evidence. Just some skulls of what could equally be a species which died out thousands of years ago. Just because it's similar to us that does not mean it's related to us.

I agree with this entirely, except I see evolution as a more reasonable probability. It doesn't explain existance, but it explains life.

Quote from rawgreen

My Dad has a friend who's got some disorders and he's got an overhanging brow, his jaw sticks out forward, a hunch in his back, and his hands sorta reach his knee's.

That's not a genetic mutation. Get your definitions straight.

Quote from Ustartin

For me, evolution is a theory and is as credible as God creating the Earth in six days.

I simply cannot believe that every cell in my body was from a product of genetic freaks with dominant genes.

People say "Pfft, how could God have created the Universe in only six days?". This question annoys me greatly as the whole idea of God is that his power is limitless.

I honestly think they both hold as much water as one another. I can almost hear you now thinking "but there's evidence of evolution!". No, there's no evidence. Just some skulls of what could equally be a species which died out thousands of years ago. Just because it's similar to us that does not mean it's related to us.

So how do you explain carbon dating and the fact that it can be used to show some things are more than six thousand years old?

Once you've done that you can move on to zircon crystals.

Then tectonic plate movements.

Then the fact that we can see stars that are more than six thousand lightyears away.

I can keep going all day.


@rawgreen - I already said those quotes were next to worthless. The Bible proves nothing.

Inb4 carbon dating isn't trustworthy.

Quote from Mantha

That's not a genetic mutation. Get your definitions straight.

I never said that

Quote from Jeremy

Inb4 carbon dating isn't trustworthy.

It's more trustworthy than the Bible. If you have a big enough sample (and we have billions) the law of large numbers makes it astronomically unlikely that all the carbon will have spontaneously decayed.

Plus I still have the rest of my evidence. And I'll bring up more as and when it's needed.

I'll play the "variation in breeds" card now to bring the numbers back up.

Do you think it's a huge coincidence that if you have a group of animals and only let the two biggest animals breed for a hundred generations you will end up with bigger animals? It's an undeniable fact - cows used to be the size of pigs before farmers hit on selective breeding. The mechanism for selective breeding to occur naturally is there and there is no reason that it shouldn't have occured.

Quote from zed

So how do you explain carbon dating and the fact that it can be used to show some things are more than six thousand years old?

Once you've done that you can move on to zircon crystals.

Then tectonic plate movements.

Then the fact that we can see stars that are more than six thousand lightyears away.

I can keep going all day.

Firstly, I never said that the Earth is not more than 6,000 years old. That's the word of scholars who have studied the Bible.

Tectonic plate movements isn't anti-Christian at all.

Neither's zircon crystals.

And the Bible never once gives a size to the Universe so I don't know why you brought up the stars business. Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

Quote from Ustartin

Firstly, I never said that the Earth is not more than 6,000 years old. That's the word of scholars who have studied the Bible.

Tectonic plate movements isn't anti-Christian at all.

Neither's zircon crystals.

And the Bible never once gives a size to the Universe so I don't know why you brought up the stars business. Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

It wasn't the size of the universe that was relevant - it was the fact that the light has had time to get to us.

If you accept creationism you accept Adam and Eve. The Bible lists the lineage right the way down to Jesus. Unless you claim each person there lived for ten thousand years you have to accept that the Earth is young according to the Bible.

Quote from zed

It wasn't the size of the universe that was relevant - it was the fact that the light has had time to get to us.

If you accept creationism you accept Adam and Eve. The Bible lists the lineage right the way down to Jesus. Unless you claim each person there lived for ten thousand years you have to accept that the Earth is young according to the Bible.

The fact that light has a speed has literally nothing to do with this debate.

Also, most Christians believe that the "Adam and Eve" story is a metaphor to simply mean that God created the Human Race.

Quote from Ustartin

The fact that light has a speed has literally nothing to do with this debate.

Also, most Christians believe that the "Adam and Eve" story is a metaphor to simply mean that God created the Human Race.

It has to do with the age of the universe. If something is 10,000 lightyears away then the light from it will take 10,000 years to reach us. If the universe was only 6000 years old we would not be able to see them yet as the light would still be 4000 years away.

If the Adam and Eve story is a metaphore then so might the rest of the Bible be. Saying "God will punish you" may just be a metaphore for "if you do something bad you'll feel guilty later". If you start accepting the Bible as a metaphore then you leave yourself open to the possibility that the gospel writers were atheists writing a guide on morals.

Quote from zed

It has to do with the age of the universe. If something is 10,000 lightyears away then the light from it will take 10,000 years to reach us. If the universe was only 6000 years old we would not be able to see them yet as the light would still be 4000 years away.

If the Adam and Eve story is a metaphore then so might the rest of the Bible be. Saying "God will punish you" may just be a metaphore for "if you do something bad you'll feel guilty later". If you start accepting the Bible as a metaphore then you leave yourself open to the possibility that the gospel writers were atheists writing a guide on morals.

You see, the thing with metaphors is that they don't usually last for a whole book.

Oh I disagree. Take George Orwell's "Animal Farm" for instance.

except some Christians say a day could have meant "a period of time". So if you add that on as well...