Quote from sacred

Give me a good example of successful person who keeps all his money to himself, and acts like a bitch in front of all the press and their friends, assuming they even have friends.

Firstly, that doesn't describe all not nice people. A not nice person almost has to attempt to appear nice to everyone else simply to get into the position where backstabbing is an available option. If no one will turn their back on you, they are unstabbable.

Secondly, Lawrence Ellison, Ingvar Kaprad, and Anil Ambani for a start.

Edit: I would consider those sorts of people more apathetic than nice. A nice guy should go out of his way to help people.

Loads of really nice and well grounded rich and famous actors / musicians in the world.


And in that buisness, you need a friendly proffesional atmostphere to make anything half decent.

For example, lots of directors and actors collaberate more than once, simply because they find it so fun and easy to work with each other.

scorsese / di caprio

Edgar Wright / Simon Pegg

Werner Herzog / Klaus Kinski (hmm)

David Fincher / Brad pitt

tim burton / johnny depp

all made amazing films



And for nice guys being generally awesome at life - Nathan Fillion.

Just because two people like each other doesn't make them nice. Case in point: Hitler and Himmler.

I will, however, conceed that my points only really apply in business and politics where talent is not as much of a factor as brutality. I suspect there will be some relevence to the entertainment world but that is not my forté.

Lack of compassion for other human beings is what people would call a sociopath.

The chances of pissing people off and backstabbing them in order to actually succeed in life is very close to zero, and you'd probably be killed in the process of it. This technique is also absolutely useless unless you're living in the ghetto or under a specific set of conditions.

You should also look into how the world actually works, why people respect each other in the first place, and also the fact that there is more to life than wealth and power (e.g. hanging with mates, hooking with girls, getting baked, trying to take an accurate piss in the morning). If you're looking for money, maybe try studying hard, or be very smart and learn how people become successful business men? Most of them have a family, and a set standard of morals and whatnot.

One last note - gangsters, mafia, drug dealers, etc receive A LOT more shit from others than normal people do.

Quote from Zed

Just because two people like each other doesn't make them nice. Case in point: Hitler and Himmler.

I will, however, conceed that my points only really apply in business and politics where talent is not as much of a factor as brutality. I suspect there will be some relevence to the entertainment world but that is not my forté.

If you're looking at business and politics, being brutal and risky has nothing to do with being a nice person or not. Hitler loved dogs. He loved his girlfriend. He loved Germany. Of course he did retarded shit that almost screwed the world over, but although he was insane, he was not selfish.

You can also take heavy risks in the business world, but you can also have a family, love your wife and kids, have friends, and whatnot. In fact, that is very important in a person's balance in life - unless you're a sociopath of course, and if they do ever find out, whatever happens will happen.

I didn't literally mean kill them - it's a metaphore. Take business as an example - the easiest way to get promoted is to seem to be nice to everyone right up until your anual performance review at which point you start bad-mouthing them and showing how much better you are than them. They'll be reluctant to do the same back if you seemed nice enough and since the reviews are confidential they'll never know.

Or politics: yes, you might be able to get elected by having some great policies and being generally nice to your constituants, but a much more efficient method is to leak a load of secrets to the tabloids that make your opponants look bad.

You don't necessarily have to be illegal to not be nice. I also fully apreciate that not all nasty people get to the top - a large proportion will be shat on by even nastier people.

On second post:

Firstly; most successful businessmen (I'm talking top lawyers and management consultants) are expected to work eighty hours a week minimum. This more or less excludes them from family life.

Secondly; the kind of person you're talking about is displaying two very different attitudes at different times. When he is being nasty he is being successful at business. When he is being nice he is successful with family. The two grant success in different areas although I personally wouldn't rate the latter as a good measure becasue I think it is entirely possible to be nasty and have a relationship: many women go back to the husbands that beat them time and time again.

The types of people you're talking about are borderline sociopaths. They do not succeed for very long, and have very few friends and loved ones. Acting nice for a year and then badmouthing people just to get a promotion? Jesus. It's much more effective to actively work as a team nowadays and allow the business revenue itself to flourish, thus increasing everyone's wages as a whole.

Quote from Zed

Just because two people like each other doesn't make them nice. Case in point: Hitler and Himmler.

Oh dear, lets skip past that...



If this is just about big business and politics then yes, its a given that you will have to be ruthless along the way to get to the top.

I doubt any sane 'nice guy' would even attempt to climb to the top of the power ladder in those worlds.

People will fight tooth and nail to get above each other, its how its always been. (especially politics) Look at all the smear campaigns from the last american election and hell, the british political partys tear each other to shreads on a daily basis. Shame their all shit.

How are you defining a nasty person, Spooned?

Quote from Myself

Are you saying that because I'm nice to people I can't be open with my sexuality? Wtf you talking bout foo.

No no, this means that many men who are nice seem to hide their sexuality because they are afraid that it will make them seem 'mean,' I guess.

This is wrong in many cases as well, of course, because personally, I am quite a nice person, but I'm not closed with sexuality either. It's just that I agree with that statement, because it does seem quite natural for some men to become androgynous and asexual because they fear that women will deem them as 'pigs.'

Quote from Omega

No no, this means that many men who are nice seem to hide their sexuality because they are afraid that it will make them seem 'mean,' I guess.

This is wrong in many cases as well, of course, because personally, I am quite a nice person, but I'm not closed with sexuality either. It's just that I agree with that statement, because it does seem quite natural for some men to become androgynous and asexual because they fear that women will deem them as 'pigs.'

Yeah, but think about it. What if a guy wasn't like that. One day he jumped at it and it was too soon for her. That'll be even worse.

Really.

Quote from sacred

Yeah, but think about it. What if a guy wasn't like that. One day he jumped at it and it was too soon for her. That'll be even worse.

Really.

That's why you've got to be smart, and know how to read body language, etc.

A nasty person is someone with no compassion for human beings or society, or someone who is a downright asshole with no contributions to the world.

Quote from Omega

read body language

LOL good luck with that.

I think the problem we're having, Spooned, is that we're polarising our definitions of the people we're arguing against and then generalising for those we argue for. I'm only considering pussies as nice guys and your only considering sociopaths as nasty. I suspect that there's a middle ground somewhere if we can be bothered to look for it but I'm happy to agree to disagree based on differing opinions as opposed to a misinterpretation of the facts.

Alright, well, there really isn't "nice" people in the successful world, but their isn't much of the "mean" people either. There's only competition. There's a top dog and everyone wants it. This being the CEO, much more famous, etc.

But all in all, it's not really all that mean, but I wouldn't state that everyone is all nice either. If someone gets the job you want, you're determined to get a better job later.