Existence

Started by: drei | Replies: 35 | Views: 3,456

Gavel
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Apr 9, 2008 9:30 PM #111864
Quote from Jeremy
Hey, why don't you not try and bring religion into this?

So I guess deities have nothing to do religion now. Sorry, I hadn't gotten the memo yet.

Quote from Überschall
Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean it's wrong. If we assumed that everytime in history when something unexplainable happened, we'd still be sitting in caves hunting animals.

There's another case I would apply that thought to, but this isn't the topic and it would make Jeremy angry anyway.
Jimmy
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Apr 9, 2008 10:27 PM #111893
Quote from drocksta
For the deity theory, religion says that they can defy logic and have existed forever because they created logic and they're a God so they can do anything. That's what makes religion so sustainable, because nothing has to be explained past "God can do anything."


Who is 'they', exactly?
Jeremy
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Apr 10, 2008 5:04 AM #112338
Quote from Doomdooer
Ehm, considering a deity as a theory =/= religion.
Dunno if you had picked that up yet.


He directly attacked atheism, when it hadn't even been brought up in this thread.
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Apr 10, 2008 6:20 PM #112591
People can only 'prove' stuff that they created themselves. That's why 'God was always there' is an 'axiom' for the religious people.
Religion was made to unite people and bring them to law. Now you can call religion 'retro nonsence'. It's worthless now, although it heps people in some strange way.
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Apr 12, 2008 9:50 AM #113703
Quote from Jeremy
He directly attacked atheism, when it hadn't even been brought up in this thread.

You whining idiot. If my post is an attack on atheism, then that must mean you feel insulted by your own beliefs.
Jeremy
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Apr 12, 2008 10:08 AM #113720
...What? That makes no sense. Let me quote your post here so you can see what you said.

Quote from Spazz
Atheists always try to use the whole "what came before god" or "who created god" thing to prove religion wrong. If you can believe that we just rot in the ground when we die, then how come you can't believe that God was always there?


Hey, is that a straw man argument I see? I think so.
No, atheists don't do that, in fact I have never heard an atheist use that argument alone, if at all.

And how in the world would I be insulted by my own beliefs because you insulted atheism in general? That doesn't even make sense.

Please be stupid outside of the debate forum.
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Apr 12, 2008 10:31 AM #113730
Quote from Spazz
Atheists always try to use the whole "what came before god" or "who created god" thing to prove religion wrong. If you can believe that we just rot in the ground when we die, then how come you can't believe that God was always there?


yeah i say it like every day
Gavel
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Apr 12, 2008 5:13 PM #113940
Quote from Jeremy
...What? That makes no sense. Let me quote your post here so you can see what you said.



Hey, is that a straw man argument I see? I think so.
No, atheists don't do that, in fact I have never heard an atheist use that argument alone, if at all.

And how in the world would I be insulted by my own beliefs because you insulted atheism in general? That doesn't even make sense.

Please be stupid outside of the debate forum.

Okay, first of all, I didn't say that's all they say to prove atheism wrong, but I've heard it used in a lot of Atheism vs. Christianity debates. I only brought that one thing up because it was somewhat relevent to the topic of this thread because the OP was talking about the whole "what came first" thing.

And second, how is it an insult on atheism? All I said was one thing you guys believe and see as a flaw in religion. Most atheists believe don't believe in an afterlife, so wouldn't that mean they believe they rot in the ground when they die? Most atheists find it hard to believe that and omnipotent being just existed instead of being created by something. Is that not true? So how is this an insult on your beliefs? Is it because I brought up atheism when I wasn't supposed to? Because it's funny, originally you weren't mad that I "bashed atheism olol". You were mad because I brought up religion in a thread that doesn't address it. So which one are you mad about to day, Menopausal Kelly?

Why don't you go be stupid outside of the debate forum.
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Apr 12, 2008 5:45 PM #113973
Quote from Spazz
Okay, first of all, I didn't say that's all they say to prove atheism wrong, but I've heard it used in a lot of Atheism vs. Christianity debates. I only brought that one thing up because it was somewhat relevent to the topic of this thread because the OP was talking about the whole "what came first" thing.


Well, when you throw around the word 'always'...

Quote from Spazz
And second, how is it an insult on atheism? All I said was one thing you guys believe and see as a flaw in religion. Most atheists believe don't believe in an afterlife, so wouldn't that mean they believe they rot in the ground when they die? Most atheists find it hard to believe that and omnipotent being just existed instead of being created by something. Is that not true? So how is this an insult on your beliefs? Is it because I brought up atheism when I wasn't supposed to? Because it's funny, originally you weren't mad that I "bashed atheism olol". You were mad because I brought up religion in a thread that doesn't address it. So which one are you mad about to day, Menopausal Kelly?


Don't play it off as a simple remark. You brought atheists into a debate that had nothing to do with them. Which Is what I would call an attack. It would be like you talking about fruits and I come in and say "Orange believers always try to make it seem like grapefruits are totally stupid...." Uncalled for and irrelevant hostility.

You were the one who said I was insulted by my own beliefs, not me.

@Bold: How would you know what goes through an atheists mind if you aren't one? I cant account for all atheists, nor any other than myself, so I cant answer that question.
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Apr 12, 2008 9:58 PM #114131
Quote from Jeremy
Well, when you throw around the word 'always'...

Well maybe saying that was generalizing, but I was just making a point to seek clarification as to the difference between, say, disbelieving a deity can just come out of nowhere and how humans can just come out of nowhere (i.e. being born, sperm cells, etc.).

Quote from Jeremy
Don't play it off as a simple remark. You brought atheists into a debate that had nothing to do with them. Which Is what I would call an attack. It would be like you talking about fruits and I come in and say "Orange believers always try to make it seem like grapefruits are totally stupid...." Uncalled for and irrelevant hostility.

So just because someone brings something up in a topic that isn't completely based on it, that means it's an attack? Do you realize how that sounds? And that example you used isn't even a good example. If you would not take what i said out of context, I never said "all you try to do is disprove religion". Maybe I should've worded it a bit differently so that people wouldn't see it as an attack, but I was only stating one of the subjects I usually here atheists use when in an argument about religion.

Quote from Jeremy
@Bold: How would you know what goes through an atheists mind if you aren't one? I cant account for all atheists, nor any other than myself, so I cant answer that question.

Maybe because I've heard them say it before? You can't account for my experiences with atheists, so you can't ask that question. What you think that atheists and religious followers are on two completely different intelligence levels and in order to comprehend the articulate nature of an atheist's wording (that obviously cannot be followed by the likes of a lowly, moronic Bible-hugger), I must become an atheist?

See? By thinking on your terms, I could take that statement as an insult.
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Apr 16, 2008 1:28 PM #116607
i recon that

when we die, we get born in a complete different universe not remembering our past life...

(and time alters)
that'd be fk awesome!
cuz, just lying in the ground all eternity, fk that
i am gonna get a bacon burger....
ZuLu
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Apr 16, 2008 6:29 PM #116726
Quote from Überschall
Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean it's wrong.

Exactly, I don't know the process or scientific theory behind why guns create a chemical reaction and are able to shoot a bullet out. That does not mean I walk around unafraid of guns now do I?

50 years ago in Denmark it literally rained fish. Many Christians around the world saw it as a sign from God. Many people's faith was converted from atheist to Christian on that day. Scientists guaranteed that there was an explanation and a scientific one at that. People couldn't understand right away and so since the only choice to them at that point was that God had sent a message they choose religion as the only answer.

7 years later it was found that a river close by Denmark had evaporated about a week prior due to dry weather and lack of humidity. Scientists figured out that as the water evaporated it raised up into the clouds carrying all the fish eggs with it. A week later the fish eggs hatched in the clouds amongst the high humidity and wallah you got raining fish.

Moral of the story, don't just accept an answer because it's the only one available.
Chimaera
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Apr 16, 2008 7:38 PM #116754
It's acceptable to say that what came before existence will be mighty similar to what comes after it.

Morequestionsget.
Covalence
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Apr 16, 2008 7:42 PM #116757
Quote from Chimaera
It's acceptable to say that what came before existence will be mighty similar to what comes after it.

Morequestionsget.


If there was nothing before existence, does that mean that there will be nothing after it then?
Chimaera
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Apr 16, 2008 7:44 PM #116759
Well, it's logical to think that existence would have to END for something to come AFTER.

So, I think itd be similar... someone smart would have to look at my post...

:(