... for religions.

I've always considered that you're a member of a religion if you believe what that religion says to be true, but today my view was challenged by a person who said that to be a member of a religion you have to behave as that religion dictates.

To clarify: Christianity tells you not to murder. Are you, therefore, disqualified from the Christian religion if you kill someone in cold blood?

Islamic doctrine includes the five pillars of faith which is basically what is required for you to be a Muslim, and only one of those is faith in God and belief in Mohammad as His prophet. What does that make someone who accepts Mohammad as a prophet but doesn't give to charity regularly, because they certainly aren't atheist or agnostic?

What about people who interpret their scriptures in different ways? Again with the Muslims, although I don't mean to pick on them, there are the few who consider that the Qur'an is telling them to blow themselves up in the name of Allah, whilst the majority are peaceful. They both believe that they are Muslim but are they really part of the same religion? Are you a member of the religion if you believe that you believe in the doctrine but actually you have misinterpreted it and you believe in something different?


My personal belief is, as I stated above, that you are a member of the religion if you believe in what they teach to be the truth, and this belonging is totally divorced from action. What do you think?

Quote from Zed

To clarify: Christianity tells you not to murder. Are you, therefore, disqualified from the Christian religion if you kill someone in cold blood?

Wow, you really have zero understanding of what the basis of christianity is. Its a personal relationship with god, you don't just get voted out by your church pastor from that.

Jesus(see: main figure of christianity) Hated religious doctrines and rules, he wanted to drive people from that prison, and into free believing in him, yo. You don't find Jesus by sitting in a pulpit and falling asleep during worship. How are you this disconnected from modern christianity?

Quote from Zed

Are you a member of the religion if you believe that you believe in the doctrine but actually you have misinterpreted it and you believe in something different?

Your wording really confuses me. What are you trying to say there? That you believe your part of a religion based on your own interpretation of the scriptures? Religious interpretation and similarly religious self-interpretation define a section of religion-related studies where attention is given to aspects of perception—where religious symbolism and the self-image of all those who hold religious views have important bearing on how others perceive their particular belief system and its adherents.

Quote from Zed

My personal belief is, as I stated above, that you are a member of the religion if you believe in what they teach to be the truth, and this belonging is totally divorced from action. What do you think?

Every single one of us goes through life living and bound by our own individual knowledge and awareness. And we make it our reality.

Quote from Zed

To clarify: Christianity tells you not to murder. Are you, therefore, disqualified from the Christian religion if you kill someone in cold blood?

Disqualified? What?

Quote from Jeremy

Wow, you really have zero understanding of what the basis of christianity is. Its a personal relationship with god, you don't just get voted out by your church pastor from that.

Jesus(see: main figure of christianity) Hated religious doctrines and rules, he wanted to drive people from that prison, and into free believing in him, yo. You don't find Jesus by sitting in a pulpit and falling asleep during worship. How are you this disconnected from modern christianity?

The bold bit is the good argument. It is also what I said, twice, that I believe to be the case.

Let's not get too tied down in one religion though. For Christianity, like you said, part of the required belief structure may be that belief is all which is required rather than action. Are you still a Muslim if you only adhere to one of the five things which supposedly make you Muslim if that one is belief, and if not what are you?

Quote from shayphis

Your wording really confuses me. What are you trying to say there? That you believe your part of a religion based on your own interpretation of the scriptures? Religious interpretation and similarly religious self-interpretation define a section of religion-related studies where attention is given to aspects of perception—where religious symbolism and the self-image of all those who hold religious views have important bearing on how others perceive their particular belief system and its adherents.

For example, Islamic terrorists believe that their religion requires them to kill. If they are wrong, are they still Muslims?

But you would have to pick and choose what beliefs make up the structure, and that is completely up to interpretation, so the question is moot. Ash and I had that debate before and it wasn't very fun.

In theory a religion should be clearly defined enough that the members know what their beliefs are at the very least. Two Christians with differing beliefs would normally fall under different sects like Baptists and Methodists.

Do you remember what that other debate was called btw? I might look through it.

I do not remember, no.

Quote from Zed

For example, Islamic terrorists believe that their religion requires them to kill. If they are wrong, are they still Muslims?

Wong about what? I think your understanding of "right" and "wrong" is slightly misguided. Can anyone truly say someone else's beliefs are right or wrong based off what their own beliefs state? No, or not without causing conflict.

I'm not saying I support their belief, I'm just saying your in no place really to say their belief is "wrong". Inhumane maybe.

Unless there's some sort of badge or registry, being a "member" of a certain faith is meaningless. It's just a label. As far as I'm concerned, you belong to whatever religion you believe you belong to.

I'm one of these anti-labels guys, in case you didn't realize. You know, like that guy from a long time ago wrote, I think his name was Bill:

Quote from "Juliet"

What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.

i kill thee in the name of god!!!111111

Quote from 2-D

i kill thee in the name of god!!!111111

YAR!!! GRAB YEE PITCH FORKS!!!!!

Quote from shayphis

Wong about what? I think your understanding of "right" and "wrong" is slightly misguided. Can anyone truly say someone else's beliefs are right or wrong based off what their own beliefs state? No, or not without causing conflict.

I'm not saying I support their belief, I'm just saying your in no place really to say their belief is "wrong". Inhumane maybe.

You missed my point again. Not if they are wrong about it being good to kill, but if they are wrong about their religion telling them it's right to kill. They think that the scriptures they believe in tell them to kill but the scriptures themselves are actually peaceful.

Quote from Real

Unless there's some sort of badge or registry, being a "member" of a certain faith is meaningless. It's just a label. As far as I'm concerned, you belong to whatever religion you believe you belong to.

I'm gonna have to go with the Islamic thing again. What if other people who believe they follow the same religion don't want to be associated with you? What right to al'quaeda have to claim that their faith promotes the killing of thousands of innocent people when this reflects so badly upon the millions of people who also call themselves Muslim but are peaceful? It's nothing short of libel and slander.

Quote from Zed

You missed my point again. Not if they are wrong about it being good to kill, but if they are wrong about their religion telling them it's right to kill. They think that the scriptures they believe in tell them to kill but the scriptures themselves are actually peaceful.

Ok i understand what your trying to say now. Misinterpretation leading to the exact opposite of what their religion states.

Is anybody out here christian? well, to Islamic extremists, Allah (God) tells them to kill others in the name of their God. Not at all that muslims are bad, just that in any way, (waco) a religion can be taken too far.

Nah, all muslims are bad.