I was having an argument with Orange Blob over MSN about violent thoughts, the subject was:

'Does not having violent thoughts result in violent behaviour'

I mean, everybody has violent thoughts once in a while, especially you guys, isn't it better to have some sort of outlet, like your own thoughts? Well he thinks not, and I think so. Thus resulting in an outright Caps Lock war.


What does SPP think?

another context is that someone's going to kill a lot of people (massacre). Are they thinking:

a) Fluffy bunnies, Unicorns and Rainbows.

b) Nothing.

c) "Hey, i'm going to go massacre some people. I'll use this gun. Shoot this guy, then that one. Kill this specific person then shoot myself"

In all honesty I'm with OB on this one. I think a person who has fantasies about killing his family is more likely to actually kill them than someone who doesn't.

If you look at the causes of the violent thoughts it makes more sense. The above person who has the fantasies probably has an abusive family or one that he hates, wheras the person who has no violent thoughts in this regard is probably in a stable family situation and in that situation there's less chance that anything will tip him over the edge into action.

This discussion was over before it started.

Sorry.

I think people who actually think about killing are less likely to kill, because most oftenly they are the people who realise it would be wrong.
I think more kills have occured by simple instinct, or, at least, more physical harm.

Quote from -Hawk-

I think people who actually think about killing are less likely to kill, because most oftenly they are the people who realise it would be wrong.
I think more kills have occured by simple instinct, or, at least, more physical harm.

Or when they just think " ah,what the hell"

How can not having violent thoughts possibly result in violent behaviour? It's a ridiculously far-off statement. Violent behaviour is a direct consequence of violent thoughts. It's not like you walk down the street, and then suddenly out of nowhere you kick a guy in the face with you fist. Your brain is always thinking and working before you do any sort of action. Sure, you may say that you "blacked out" or "couldn't control yourself" or "just didn't think", but really, it's bullshit.

Quote from alive

It's not like you walk down the street, and then suddenly out of nowhere you kick a guy in the face with you fist.

True .

i'm glad people have brains. If violent thoughts didn't result in violent behavior, then there would be peace. Do we have peace? No. so obviously people are thinking violently and acting on those violent thoughts.
Of course there is instinct. But are you really acting on your instinct when you pull out a gun and fire at innocent students?
Instinct is when you react to a violent situation or a situation that could result in possible death and you instinctually fight back, sometimes killing them. Instinct kills don't happen when someone passes by with a smile on their face waving to you and saying hi in such a pleasant voice.

This discussion's probably not going to go very far. Perhaps if we were to shift to a discussion about convicting people with violent thoughts of a crime, it would go far better?

Not really. Moral evaluation of thoughts is kind of impossible, since the whole definition of morality derives from the relationships and people, about deeds that have been done IRL. Not thoughts.

Well damn. That's a hard discussion too. It kinda sucks when a community of intelligent people try to debate: they end up in lots of one-sided discussions.

Hrm, this isn't going to work...

Maybe debate over the statement:

'Having violent thoughts automatically turns you into a violent person'

Better?

Quote from Mantha

Not really. Moral evaluation of thoughts is kind of impossible, since the whole definition of morality derives from the relationships and people, about deeds that have been done IRL. Not thoughts.

Actually, a lot of morality depends on motivations. Kant said that actions are only good if you did them because you thought you were doing the right thing and not if you did them because you wanted, for example, to be liked. Utilitarianism has to be based on motivation because you can't know the consequences before you act - you can only know that you intend for the consequences to be good.

Convicting people for violent thoughts is similar to that brief debate that popped up a couple of days ago on whether attempted murder should be treated the same as murder.

Obviously it's an impractical system to enforce at the moment because technology is not there yet, but if it were possible to screen people for violent thoughts and then to convict them untill they tested negative again then the world would probably be a much less violent place.

(watch me veer back on topic here)

This then links directly back into what MaxZ has just posted, because having violent thoughts does not automatically make you violent. You might get really irritated with someone for something and want to hit them but not do it because you're afraid of the consequences. Therefore, the above situation of convicting for violent thoughts would be unfair because not everyone with the violent thoughts would have gone on to commit crimes.

I didn't say motives were irrelevant in the research of human behavior. But just thinking about killing you doesn't make me an immoral person.