Jeremy's Accusations

Started by: Ash | Replies: 85 | Views: 2,848

Ash
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Oct 29, 2009 11:35 AM #507329
Thanks for completely side stepping the first point I made, and then continuing to completely misunderstand what I was saying.

First of all, I like how you said that agnosticism isn't the middle ground between religion and atheism, but then called "moronic fence sitters" Agnostics, so...which is it? Are they on the fence (middle ground) or aren't they?

If you'd read the rest of the post, you'd have seen that I said they "built their fence out of straws". By that I mean that they reduced the other two positions into straw men so that they could find a middle ground that didn't even exist.

What does CHRISTIANITY (IE: the belief in Christ, popular mostly in America, NOT ****ING ISLAM AND OTHER VIOLENT BELIEFS.) Do that wrongly? And don't use maniac extremists to justify your crusade against Christianity(LOL IRONY) And no, the large number of extremists doesn't regard anything to the belief other than ITS ****ING POPULAR DURR.

I'll assume that you meant "What does Christianity do that is wrong". (You said "What does Christianity do that wrongly".)

I don't use extremists as a straw man for the rest of Christians. I point out that these people only exist because the belief exist. It's possible to get from "You're a sinner who doesn't love my god" to "I'm gonna kill you". It's a rather easy rationalization to make without drawing on external sources. I don't dislike religion because it has its extremists, but because extremism is embeded within the ideology that one group has precedent over another because the creator of the universe says so.


Oh, and the fact that I care about what is true and would like for others to do the same plays a big part in my creation of threads.

And thats not even my main point. My first point was that there is NOTHING(read ABSOLUTLEY ZERO) wrong with believing in a christian afterlife.
If people aren't comfortable with the theory that nothing happens after we die, then leave them be. IF they aren't bothering you with there beliefs(which they aren't) Then leave them alone. But you don't leave them alone, you think they are stupid, you criticize their beliefs openly, for what reason? Because your mommy forced you to go to church for a few sundays? AWWWW SWO SWAD WITTLE ASH HAD TO BE BWORED FOR A FEW HOURS.

Erm... No, my criticism is because I enjoy the subject, it isn't "revenge" for losing a few hours every Sunday. (How would that even work? My mom doesn't read stickpage, and neither does my old pastor, or anyone in my family for that matter)

And AGAIN, I fail to see how making threads on stickpage is anything like what you seem to make me out as doing. No matter how many threads I make, calling me intolerant is ridiculous. Do me a favor and find a single post advocating violence or discrimination against theists. That would be an example of intolerance. I don't see how disagreeing vehemently and toleration are mutually exclusive.

And secondly no, agnostics can be anyone who doesn't decide to choose any side in these stupid fights and ridiculous beliefs and disbelief's.

Have you still not checked your definitions? Let me help you with that.

Theism is the "belief in the existence of a god or gods". If you are without theism, you are an atheist. This includes EVERYONE who does not fall under the category of theism (Though which spectrum deism falls under is debatable.) Take note of the word "belief" there, and remember the meaning of that word.

Agnosticism is "an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge." As applied to religion, it means that whether or not God exists is unknowable. It's a position on KNOWLEDGE, NOT BELIEF. That means it's not mutually exclusive to either theism or atheism. In fact, all agnostics still fall under those two categories. I am myself an agnostic, in that I think that it is unknowable whether god exists or not. But I'm also an atheist, meaning that while I don't claim to know that god doesn't exist, I still don't believe that he does. Furthermore, I'm a "strong atheist", meaning that I don't just have the absence of a belief in a god, but also the positive belief that the gods so far proposed to me do not exist. Between my position and theism is weak atheism. Theists also may fall under "agnosticism", if they share the belief that god is unknowable.

You think they are the arrogant ones when 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of atheists are ****ing annoying condescending arrogant dickheads like you are. They idolize dawkins like he is a god (SEE: YOU, YOU ****ING ASS)

Because owning two of his books, mentioning him occasionally on this board, and attending one lecture is idolization, is it? I wonder, if I were attend a lecture being given by Stephen Hawking, would it be IDOLIZATION LIKE HE WAS A GOD? I already mention him occasionally on its board, and I actually own 3 of his books. And I also find it ridiculously entertaining that you would choose Dawkins as the one I'm "idolizing like a god", because anyone can see that I post (and talk) more about Carl Sagan. But no, Carl Sagan didn't publicize his atheism to the same degree as Dawkins, he was more of an astronomer, so you won't use him, because it doesn't support your argument.

When he isn't anything but a prick with a good vocabulary and no humility. And they just as likely to be ignorant of when they are wrong as religious zealots are.

Actually, Dawkins is well-known for his books on biology, which were each widely influential in the field. He's published 10 books between 1976 and now, and only one was about the subject of religion, and that was #9. To put that into perspective a bit more, almost all of his books have been bestsellers. I say this not to say "Look how great he is", but to point out that he's a biologist first and an atheist later. Hell, when he gave a lecture here in Oklahoma, he wasn't talking about religion, he was talking about the idea of purpose and directed will in evolution. He only brought religion up in his introduction, and that was still a brief mention, and only because his introduction was a response to a state representative trying to prevent Dawkins from giving the lecture because of his atheism.

I don't remember comparing your posts to the holocaust, which is weird because that's something I would remember.


You said I was intolerant. The only things you know about me are what I post on the internet. The holocaust is an extreme example of intolerance. Ergo, you compared my posts to the Holocaust. Not necessarily in degree but in ethics.

No I said you were disrespectful, and you are.

No, you said I was intolerant. There's a difference.

I remember you telling a story about how kids were picking on you because of your atheism, boy it sure seems unlikely those kids were telepathic, and had to read your mind to find out. Or maybe you felt like you needed to tell someone your beliefs, or maybe tell them how wrong theirs were. But I bet if you had done it respectfully, that shit wouldn't have happened.

I remember the incident you are describing, and no, the reason they knew is because they heard me talking to my friend Tyler about something related to the subject and asked me if I was an atheist. BTW, Tyler's an atheist.

Lastly, I very seriously doubt you don't treat your friends differently based on their beliefs. In fact I find that impossible. With how against you are of any possible type of Christianity you are, I doubt you treat them better in real life. Either that or you are lying to them or to us.

Jeremy, don't begin to pretend that you can assume anything about my personal life from forum posts on a stick figure website. You take my posts about how religious people are incorrect and stretch them to being complete hatred towards religious belief. Then you remove the context (Debate section and occasionally a response to a comment in other sections) and conclude that I must act that way to everyone I meet. I'm not even sure how it is possible to justify such an assumption.
Myself

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Oct 29, 2009 11:40 AM #507330
Bravo .
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Oct 29, 2009 11:46 AM #507331
funfact: everything jeremy says is a buncha trollin.
Mantha
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Oct 29, 2009 11:52 AM #507333
Quote from Ash
Yes, I am an atheist. If you'd like, we can discuss the matter. I'd be glad for you to try to convince me that a god exists, especially if my eternal soul is at stake.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this one sounds pretty intolerant to me.
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Oct 29, 2009 11:57 AM #507336
what do atheists care about tolerance? especially since they have absolutely no moral values whatsoever.
Mantha
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Oct 29, 2009 12:00 PM #507338
Oh yeah. I almost forgot.

Disregard my last post.
Ash
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Oct 29, 2009 12:05 PM #507341
Quote from Mantha
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this one sounds pretty intolerant to me.


How is that an example of "lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc."

I actually wasn't being sarcastic, there. If it is the case that I have a soul and that this soul is a complete carbon copy of my personality and memories that will live on after I die, then I'd really like to be convinced of the position required for admittance to anywhere other than hell. I'll agree that it sounds condescending, and I could have worded the post better, but I really wanted to get right into the debate. I really do love to debate this subject.
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Oct 29, 2009 12:07 PM #507343
I think god exists because there has to be a god I mean how can you explain who invented computer? No man could ever build a computers it's all god's doing praise the lord 666

No but seriously though being christian does NOT make you a better person. I know a shitload of selfish and arrogant assholes who are christian, and good people who don't even believe in god. However, same thing can be said vice versa. It just depends on the person, not their religion. However, a shitty person + religion to justify their own shittiness is pretty bad.
Mantha
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Oct 29, 2009 12:10 PM #507344
@Ash: Yeah, that sounded pretty sarcastic and cocky.

You communicate trough words in a debate, so that's pretty important. If you like debating this subject, which is sensitive to most of the people, since beliefs and everything happen on a personal level, then please be more of a sport.
Ash
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Oct 29, 2009 12:10 PM #507345
@Spooned: I like the way it was said by Steven Weinberg:
"With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

@Mantha: Okay, I'll try to do better at sounding more respectful. I'm sorry for not being quite as respectful as I could have been.

Jeremy, see, how Mantha psoted is how you should act. Not spewing ad hominems left and right instead of being calm and civil.
Mantha
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Oct 29, 2009 12:13 PM #507346
If we speculate and roughtly divide people into "bad" and "good", there's situations where "good" people really do bad things without religious motives. I don't like that saying at all.
Ash
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Oct 29, 2009 12:20 PM #507348
The point that the saying brings about is still valid, even if it can't be neatly applied. I agree that there are moral grey areas, but the saying is meant to apply to the extremes. You find both theists and atheists doing all kinds of things, but there are things that a theist can do that can't possibly be justified by an atheist, such as, to use an ancient example for a change, sacrificing a person every day to make sure that the gods allow the sun to rise.
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Oct 29, 2009 2:32 PM #507375
I haven't read all of Ash's post (I will in a minute), so sorry if I repeat anything, but I wanted to get down the response that I had typed to Jeremy before I was denied my opportunity at the last minute. Right:

1. How arrogant we are has nothing to do with the issue at stake. Sure, we may not be very nice people (we may also be the nicest people on the planet. I just don't want to have to commit one way or the other on this point because it's irrelevant), but atheism, theism, and agnosticism, are about a search for the truth. However arrogant we may act doesn't matter, so long as we are right.

2. Religion has hurt us and humanity as a whole, and continues to do so. Religion consistantly stands in the way of scientific progress. Look at Copernicus, Galileo, and Darwin. Today look at stem cells. If the church had it's way then most of modern biology would never have happened, and hundreds of people would die younger than they do thanks to scientific advances in medicine.
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Oct 29, 2009 2:50 PM #507378
Jeremy is a fine troll.

Also, a little off topic here: I hate it when people say "I respect your beliefs, but". It's ****ing stupid, I don't respect peoples religious beliefs the same way I don't respect their beliefs on what the best football team is if it's something I blatantly disagree with and cannot possibly fathom why those beliefs are held.

[edit]
INB4 intolerant.
alive
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Oct 29, 2009 4:04 PM #507383
Tolerance and respect are different things.