Stick Page Forums Archive

Awkward Grammar:Ketchup vs. Catsup

Started by: RGBfanatic | Replies: 56 | Views: 3,651

RGBfanatic

Posts: 126
Joined: Dec 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 1, 2010 9:44 PM #531714
This is so weird. Why are there two spellings for the same exact thing!? WHY!?
it annoys the crap outta me...

So decide. Dont forget to 'usplain.

I know this is an odd thing to poll about, but i think its annoying and i want to hear what others think.
alive
2

Posts: 1,331
Joined: May 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 12:11 AM #532665
English hasn't always been as standardized as it is today.


"Ketchup was one of the earliest names given to this condiment, so spelled in Charles Lockyer’s book of 1711, An Account of the Trade in India: “Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan, and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and sold very cheap in China”. Nobody seems quite sure where it comes from, and I won’t bore you with a long disquisition concerning the scholarly debate on the matter, which is reflected in the varied origins given in major dictionaries. It’s likely to be from a Chinese dialect, imported into English through Malay. The original was a kind of fish sauce, though the modern Malay and Indonesian version, with the closely related name kecap, is a sweet soy sauce.

Like their Eastern forerunners, Western ketchups were dipping sauces. I’m told the first ketchup recipe appeared in Elizabeth Smith’s book The Compleat Housewife of 1727 and that it included anchovies, shallots, vinegar, white wine, sweet spices (cloves, ginger, mace, nutmeg), pepper and lemon peel. Not a tomato in sight, you will note — tomato ketchup was not introduced until about a century later, in the US, and caught on only slowly. It was more usual to base the condiment on mushrooms, or sometimes walnuts.

The confusion about names started even before Charles Lockyer wrote about it, since there is an entry dated 1690 in the Dictionary of the Canting Crew which gives it as catchup, which is another Anglicisation of the original Eastern term. Catchup was used much more in North America than in Britain: it was still common in the middle years of the nineteenth century, as in a story in Scribner’s Magazine in 1859: “I do not object to take a few slices of cold boiled ham ... with a little mushroom catchup, some Worcester sauce, and a pickle or so”. Indeed, catchup continued to appear in American works for some decades and is still to be found on occasion.

There were lots of other spellings, too, of which catsup is the best known, a modification of catchup. You can blame Jonathan Swift for it if you like, since he used it first in 1730: “And, for our home-bred British cheer, Botargo, catsup, and caveer”. [Caveer is caviar; botargo is a fish-based relish made of the roe of the mullet or tunny.] That form was also once common in the US but is much less so these days, at least on bottle labels: all the big US manufacturers now call their product ketchup."

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ket2.htm
Überschall
2

Posts: 3,607
Joined: Sep 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 1:16 AM #532684
If this really "annoys the crap out of you", you should seriousely get laid or hit a bar or something.
mechanical stick
2

Posts: 259
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 1:37 AM #532686
Quote from alive
English hasn't always been as standardized as it is today.


"Ketchup was one of the earliest names given to this condiment, so spelled in Charles Lockyer’s book of 1711, An Account of the Trade in India: “Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan, and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and sold very cheap in China”. Nobody seems quite sure where it comes from, and I won’t bore you with a long disquisition concerning the scholarly debate on the matter, which is reflected in the varied origins given in major dictionaries. It’s likely to be from a Chinese dialect, imported into English through Malay. The original was a kind of fish sauce, though the modern Malay and Indonesian version, with the closely related name kecap, is a sweet soy sauce.

Like their Eastern forerunners, Western ketchups were dipping sauces. I’m told the first ketchup recipe appeared in Elizabeth Smith’s book The Compleat Housewife of 1727 and that it included anchovies, shallots, vinegar, white wine, sweet spices (cloves, ginger, mace, nutmeg), pepper and lemon peel. Not a tomato in sight, you will note — tomato ketchup was not introduced until about a century later, in the US, and caught on only slowly. It was more usual to base the condiment on mushrooms, or sometimes walnuts.

The confusion about names started even before Charles Lockyer wrote about it, since there is an entry dated 1690 in the Dictionary of the Canting Crew which gives it as catchup, which is another Anglicisation of the original Eastern term. Catchup was used much more in North America than in Britain: it was still common in the middle years of the nineteenth century, as in a story in Scribner’s Magazine in 1859: “I do not object to take a few slices of cold boiled ham ... with a little mushroom catchup, some Worcester sauce, and a pickle or so”. Indeed, catchup continued to appear in American works for some decades and is still to be found on occasion.

There were lots of other spellings, too, of which catsup is the best known, a modification of catchup. You can blame Jonathan Swift for it if you like, since he used it first in 1730: “And, for our home-bred British cheer, Botargo, catsup, and caveer”. [Caveer is caviar; botargo is a fish-based relish made of the roe of the mullet or tunny.] That form was also once common in the US but is much less so these days, at least on bottle labels: all the big US manufacturers now call their product ketchup."

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ket2.htm


wow i just learned something.....i think.You're an odd one alive. I can picture you as a bottle of ketchup, with glasses on the computer looking up your history.
Ssjbryando
2

Posts: 3,517
Joined: Jul 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 1:38 AM #532688
Who the fck says Catsup...''Sup cat'' I always said Ketchup. But im from holland so idk, but I never heard of catsup o.o
Automaton
2

Posts: 4,779
Joined: Nov 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 2:51 AM #532705
I have never heard of "catsup" in my life. Seriously, it's as if you just came out and said "ketchup vs zupzip".
Bonk
2

Posts: 2,778
Joined: Mar 2008
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 3:46 AM #532714
It's called Tomato Sauce, damnit!
Gavel
2

Posts: 6,675
Joined: Oct 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 4:12 AM #532718
Quote from mechanical stick
You're an odd one alive. I can picture you as a bottle of ketchup, with glasses on the computer looking up your history.


what, why would you do that? what's wrong with you?
STUFF
2

Posts: 3,132
Joined: Aug 2005
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 5:31 AM #532742
Catsup really isn't that uncommon. I've never heard anyone I know say it that way, but in the media and shit, all the time.


Ketchup for me though.
Automaton
2

Posts: 4,779
Joined: Nov 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 5:45 AM #532750
Is this some major troll, or is there actually a word called catsup?
Tortuga
2

Posts: 548
Joined: Sep 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 7:17 AM #532788
there actually is a word catsup, if you go though a fast food drive through and ask for ketchup they write it down on their little board as catsup, that's the only time i've ever seen it though
pencilmagic

Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 8:59 AM #532806
Catsup?What a f..... is that.
2-D
2

Posts: 12,355
Joined: Sep 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 9:42 AM #532825
Quote from Überschall
If this really "annoys the crap out of you", you should seriousely get laid or hit a bar or something.


People who drink and have sex are never annoyed by anything.
RGBfanatic

Posts: 126
Joined: Dec 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 10:13 PM #533058
Quote from Ssjbryando
Who the fck says Catsup...''Sup cat'' I always said Ketchup. But im from holland so idk, but I never heard of catsup o.o
Its pronounceed the same exact way, thats another spelling for it though.

Quote from Automaton
I have never heard of "catsup" in my life. Seriously, it's as if you just came out and said "ketchup vs zupzip".
... Sometimes, in like old books its spelled c-a-t-s-u-p.

Quote from Bonk
It's called Tomato Sauce, damnit!

There is a consistency differance...-.-

Quote from Automaton
Is this some major troll, or is there actually a word called catsup?
There is a word called catsup.

Quote from pencilmagic
Catsup?What a f..... is that.
you put way to many dots on your censorship and catsup is another spelling of ketchup.

Quote from 2-D
People who drink and have sex are never annoyed by anything.

Thank you.

Lol all i did was put this is my signature and i've already gotten a ton of votes and comments. 2-D was the first to vote, but didn't even comment! BTW, i make all of my polls public, i think.
mechanical stick
2

Posts: 259
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Jan 4, 2010 10:22 PM #533064
Quote from Nedwardturtl
there actually is a word catsup, if you go though a fast food drive through and ask for ketchup they write it down on their little board as catsup, that's the only time i've ever seen it though


Well i did always think of 'catsup' being a quick way of writing ketchup, mainly at fastfood.It's only one letter quicker though, why not try kchp or ketup. Hehe ketup, I'm gonna call it that now.
Website Version: 1.0.4
© 2025 Max Games. All rights reserved.