They had to have those options it had twice as many pokemon as the first and has more than ruby and saphire, if all pokemon showed up at the same time of day you would never be able to get the one you want because you being flooded with pokemon and they aren't even cheesy ones like ruby and saphire, they are genuinly good ones like sneasel, skarmary, donphan, ursaring, xatu and even that little mouse sentret turns into furret which can learn fire, ice and thunder punch for nearly any situation.
As for gameplay disadvantages? Why ruby and saphire have a ton they get mediocre abilities that really serves no purpose because most of the pokemon they are on aren't very good to begin with and it won't stop a super effective hit from killing them anyways. The only advantage I can think of is that the game is way easier than the old ones. Sure you can run, but that doesn't mean jack once you get your bike.

1: lame pokemon
2: smaller pokedex
3: obsolete abilities

Fire red and leafy green, didn't feel the same to me, mainly because they changed a lot of shit, even down to the locations of pokemon. They gave charmander metal claw so you can beat brock with him, you can't get nidoran until after brocks gym I used to get him before because nidoran dominates brocks gym.

We're debating Pokémon. How cool are we!?

Sapphire wasn't easy. You have no ****ing clue how long I spent fishing 10 times in every square of water along route whichever to find the one that Feebas had been randomly assigned to.

More pokémon doesn't necessarily mean better. Imo, they should have saved half those pokémon to use in Sapphire later, but instead they went and tried to throw too much in at once and the end result suffered for it.

I wouldn't necessarily say the second set were better than the third either. Sure they had a few good ones - Mantine will always have a place in my heart - but they also had Smeargle, Dunsparce, and Miltank (don't pretend you haven't got a list open too). Alright, third gen had Nozupasu and Banebu, but Wailord frankly shoulda been in since round one. Looking between the two I'd say they were more or less even.

And I contest the view that the abilities are obsolete. Running is an absolute necessity at the start of the game, and that's when you get it. Sure, you can upgrade to a bike later, but that's like saying that a Pidgeotto isn't worth having because Rayquaza is so much better. (Edit: and yeah, I'm crossing the games, but you get my point)

Ugh, Charmander and Metal Claw... That was the first sign FireRed was going to be less than fulfilling. And I would be willing to bet money that try and pull that again with either Chikorita or Cyndaquil this time around, as both had some level of disadvantage against Faulkner. Worst case scenario, they move Mareep's spawn locations and f*ck up the challenge of that first gym (or what challenge there was, considering he was level 7 and 9...)

Still. Psyched to get these games.


Also, Zed, that's good to hear. I wasn't trying to convert you to the old schoolers side, I just wanted to be certain you had the "whole story" as it were.

Quote from Zed

We're debating Pokémon. How cool are we!?

Sapphire wasn't easy. You have no ****ing clue how long I spent fishing 10 times in every square of water along route whichever to find the one that Feebas had been randomly assigned to.

More pokémon doesn't necessarily mean better. Imo, they should have saved half those pokémon to use in Sapphire later, but instead they went and tried to throw too much in at once and the end result suffered for it.

I wouldn't necessarily say the second set were better than the third either. Sure they had a few good ones - Mantine will always have a place in my heart - but they also had Smeargle, Dunsparce, and Miltank (don't pretend you haven't got a list open too). Alright, third gen had Nozupasu and Banebu, but Wailord frankly shoulda been in since round one. Looking between the two I'd say they were more or less even.

And I contest the view that the abilities are obsolete. Running is an absolute necessity at the start of the game, and that's when you get it. Sure, you can upgrade to a bike later, but that's like saying that a Pidgeotto isn't worth having because Rayquaza is so much better. (Edit: and yeah, I'm crossing the games, but you get my point)

Catching feebas isn't hard, just indcredibly time consuming, he doesn't decimate your team or or even break out of a lot of pokeballs.
And pidgeotto is better than raquaza just for the fact that you can't have rayqauza till the very end making him pretty pointless. You don't get your bike at the end you get it quarter way through the game, like I said you can run but that doesn't mean jack once you get the bike, I never really liked rayquaza that much anyways. Wherez mah damnned mewtwoozoz?

A few good ones? I can name at least three dozen, sure they where jumping the gun with some of them but it isn't the first generation so you can expect some downsides. Speaking of the first generation, you have the option of only catching those if you want to, I personally think golduck is a must have, especially in silver, gold and crystal where you can teach him ice punch from the get go as a level seven psyduck.

Yeah I am sure they're going to **** the difficulty up, but skilled people have the originals mastered anyways, exept I hope they amp up pokemon trainer red. He was pretty tough to begin with and that snorlax was over kill, so I hope they make him even tougher. They will probably make chikorita learn ice beam or some shit like that so that you can kill all faulkners pokemon in one hit.

Quote from Jutsu

Catching feebas isn't hard, just indcredibly time consuming, he doesn't decimate your team or or even break out of a lot of pokeballs.
And pidgeotto is better than raquaza just for the fact that you can't have rayqauza till the very end making him pretty pointless. You don't get your bike at the end you get it quarter way through the game, like I said you can run but that doesn't mean jack once you get the bike, I never really liked rayquaza that much anyways. Wherez mah damnned mewtwoozoz?

A few good ones? I can name at least three dozen, sure they where jumping the gun with some of them but it isn't the first generation so you can expect some downsides. Speaking of the first generation, you have the option of only catching those if you want to, I personally think golduck is a must have, especially in silver, gold and crystal where you can teach him ice punch from the get go as a level seven psyduck.

Yeah I am sure they're going to **** the difficulty up, but skilled people have the originals mastered anyways, exept I hope they amp up pokemon trainer red. He was pretty tough to begin with and that snorlax was over kill, so I hope they make him even tougher. They will probably make chikorita learn ice beam or some shit like that so that you can kill all faulkners pokemon in one hit.

Speaking of Trainer Red, I heard he was going to be alot harder this time. I don't know if there's any truth to this, but I sure hope so.

Me too, he had challenge but if you where a skilled trainer you could beat him pretty easily.
Frankly I think his pikachu should be level one hundred instead of eighty, but that may be just me. Especially when I have a level one hundred sandlash, his pikachu gets dominated.
Also, his team was well rounded but still weak to cheap tricks, you could beat almost all of his team with a maxed feraligatr, tach it ice punch for venasaur and earthquake for the pikachu, surf or another water based move for charzard. But ussually the snorlax won't be killed so you will need a fighting type, or a good status effect pokemon. Dream eater is a great move for that too.

Red wasn't all that bad with a well-leveled team.

I found that if you tried to get at him with a team fresh off your second Elite Four victory, unless you trained them with the fancy hidden value things I tend to ignore, you were going to have a hard time beating him. But if your levels were even, he was more or less a pushover. That Pikachu had pathetic DEF and would drop on one shot from a non-super effective shot from one of my stronger team members.

The Snorlax I don't recall being that big an issue. I just had to make sure my best damage dealers were out when that thing came out to play, then pound it. If I didn't catch him while he was asleep, the AI would pull a stupid and I'd kill him.

Mostly? I'm just looking forward to playing my favorite games of the series with the improvements of D/P/Pl. The Poketch was surprisingly useful, the day/night was vastly improved, I loved the newish look, and holy shit double battles in Johto. As long as the Cinawood Safari Zone isn't overkill and they don't cram too much into the PokeGear, I'm sure it'll at least do the Gen 2 games justice.

That's why I am saying his pikachu needs to be stronger, better moves and he needs a better team. All three starters is cool, but I could think of waaaaaaaaay better classical pokemon teams. I can kill most of his team all with one hit but for some reason that snorlax is a bitch for me.
I say he should have a butterfree, some will laugh, but seriously butter free is actually really good. In the originals butter free is a must have for me it learns psychic at level ten for god sakes, but most people don't give it a chance.

I was always partial to Beedrill, but I started with Blue version, so I was shit out of luck unless my one brother with Red didn't mind trading. Pin Missile was a godsend against those godly Psychic types in R/B/Y, though his half-Poison element meant he was more shock, awe, and dead than a real bruiser.

A Butterfree would actually be an awesome callback to the series, just like Pikachu. I think, really, his party should look like this:

Pikachu, Lvl 90
Charizard, Lvl 88
Pidgeot, Lvl 85
Butterfree, Lvl 83
Snorlax, Lvl 88
Lapras, Lvl 86

Optimally, I'd like variable Pokemon based on some random but not ridiculous mathematical formula, replacing, say, Snorlax, Lapras, and Butterfree with Heracross, Kingler, and Muk, at the same levels, just as random examples.

But alas, I highly doubt such a thing will happen, reducing all this to mere fan-wankery.

I also heard that the AI in general in this game is much harder. That would be awesome.

That would be perfect.

Though it makes me fear going against Whitney. Bitch used to kick my ass eight way to Sunday. I can only hope my cumulative four generations worth of Pokemon game experience plus both Stadiums and XD: Gale of Darkness prove to be more than the AI hike can handle.

I myself say something more or less like:
Pikachu: 100 seriously unless it's maxed we will kill it everytime.
Butterfree: 93
Gengar: 90 sooooo fast, if that hypnosis lands you will be in a world of pain.
Charizard; 95 it can stay, it serves a purpose and is nice and strong.
Snorlax: 92 like I said this things a bitch to begin with, just make it stronger.
Here is where it gets tricky I feel like he needs a phsycic but at the same time he really needs a water type.
Golduck or starmie it is: 90 two birds one stone.

Of course that's not based entirely on calculating their stats so much as basing it on there move set ups after playing the game a million times, I would say that they all can learn increadibly formidable moves.
He has;

Endurance: snorlax; this thing I would recomend him to drop second or last it will make the fight really long, hopefully knowing snore and sleep talk. If this thing knew hyper beam it would own so hard because it can afford an extra hit of damage before it can sleep again, or even better if it sleep talks the hyper beam.

Tank: charizard; c'mon it's charizard, it just needs some strong attacks, preferably fire spin to get you stuck so he can switch out to something for status effects if, things get problematic.

Speedy: Pikachu; If his pikachu attacks first(which it will) hopefully they make it drop a good move before it dies, like zap cannon, haha or sand attack, hopefully you will miss and he can catch you in an infinite loop of sand attack then use double team while you keep missing. Sure you can just swap pokemon out but it would be hilarious.

Strategical: Gengar;(Technically faster than pikachu) Mainly his options are fantastic, he can drop a hypnosis-->mean look--->curse---> dream eater or destiny bond.
If he does you can't escape because of mean look, your slowly dying by curse he can gain his with dream eater if they don't want destiny bond, but if he has destiny bond and he dies so does your pokemon. Destiny bond could be an extremely dick move, He can kill one of your pokemon with constant hypnosis until the curse kills you, he will be at half health so you will chose a pokemon that can kill him in one hit, since he will likely go first he could drop destiny bond right before you kill him taking two of your pokemon with him.

Status effect: Butterfree, Nothing is gayer than having your giant dinosaur defeated by a butterfly; this insect can **** shit up bad, if you use it right and luck is on your side. For starters it can learn safe guard keeps shit from status effecting his team, not the greatest but can be really important sometimes. Sleep powder is amazing it hits more often than hypnosis, he can..
Sleep powder---> safe guard---> psybeam---> wirlwind, this move at first glance is a pointless move, but when used right can end up putting a whole team to sleep.---> sleep powder the new pokemon----> psybeam now you have time for two psybeams------> wirlwind----> rinse repeat. I have defeated lance with just a butterfree doing this. Of course psybeam does random damage but it has a chance to do quite a bit, adding to butterfree's high sp attack stat he will dominate. Though butterfree is a gamble he is devistating given the right surcumstances. Pikachu blinds an oponent, Charizard fire spins someone, gengar ****s someone over with his bullshit moveset, ect.


Just raw rediculousness; Starmie, I won't lie this pokemon is rediculous, I remember playing pokemon stadium and I beat almost all the elite four with just this thing; It can learn ice, pshycic and water moves since it's real fast and has great sp attack stats it can handle a lot of threats for his team, ice attack plant pokemon, pshycic poison, fighting and pretty much anything that it doesn't have a super effective move for.
Water moves, for rock, ground, fire, steel ect. It really makes a great filler for his team and is just flat out rude.


Yeah that damn miltank, was an asshole, Luckily, I had butterfree. lulz
RollOut!!!!! Oh, what? Miltank wake up, shit.....

Everybody has those Pokemon that they they swear by. Obviously one for you, Jutsu, is Butterfree. I'm curious, what are everybody elses'?

Mine are...

Ampharos. Oh my God Ampharos. That thing rapes tremendously. I can't tell you how many Pokemon one Thunderpunch from that thing has cleanly dealt with for me.

Noctowl. Never had one I didn't like.

Typhlosion. Just... Typhlosion.

And lastly, Victreebel. Just because they're fun.

Ampharos is fantastic, once you get that thing evolved from mareep. It is pretty untouchable.
Hey, you better love the butterfreezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Hey, he's a gamble but I love him.

By swear by, do you mean ones that we always have in our parties?

If so, then mine is:

Tyranitar. It's freaking awesome, OU, and the amount of ways you can use it makes it my favourite.

Apart from that, I just build my party around whatever Pokemon I can catch easily and level up quickly.

Man, my Aggron and Pelipper PWNED the Elite Four in Ruby.