well I suppose I may as well join the armed forces and kill people in war, even though I'm morally opposed to it because it's going to happen anyway. Hell, I may as well start raping people because it's going to happen regardless of what I do.

And yes, I do do it to feel better about myself... that's the sole reason why anyone does anything moral - to not feel guilty...

Quote from lolipops

And how does vegetarianism prevent it from being shitty, even in the slightest?

It prevents it from being more shitty for the animals. Your logic seems to be that because life is shitty, we shouldn't try and make it the best as it can possibly be. It's flawed logic and that's the point I was trying to make.

Quote from Automaton

well I suppose I may as well join the armed forces and kill people in war, even though I'm morally opposed to it because it's going to happen anyway. Hell, I may as well start raping people because it's going to happen regardless of what I do.

And yes, I do do it to feel better about myself... that's the sole reason why anyone does anything moral - to not feel guilty...

Your logic is complete bullshit.

Quote from lolipops

Your logic is complete bullshit.

That's it...No argument to back up your claim?
That's very stupid of you isn't it.

Quote from lolipops

Your logic is complete bullshit.

can't tell if troll.jpg

Quote from Preserve

It prevents it from being more shitty for the animals. Your logic seems to be that because life is shitty, we shouldn't try and make it the best as it can possibly be. It's flawed logic and that's the point I was trying to make.

I think that what he means is that becoming a vegetarian has no effect at all on how many animals get slaughtered. Becoming vegetarian isn't the way to make things better for animals. Rallying and protesting and forcing slaughterhouses to fire their employees (the ones who make the animal's deaths more painful than necessary) is how to do it. It'd have a bigger effect than not eating meat, at least.

Quote from Devour

I think that what he means is that becoming a vegetarian has no effect at all on how many animals get slaughtered. Becoming vegetarian isn't the way to make things better for animals. Rallying and protesting and forcing slaughterhouses to fire their employees (the ones who make the animal's deaths more painful than necessary) is how to do it. It'd have a bigger effect than not eating meat, at least.

And I may very well protest etc one day. The fact is that in the world there's millions of vegetarians (hundreds of millions). Those millions have lessened the demand for meat, and in turn less meat has been produced. Sure, it hasn't done that much, but every movement starts off small. Without those vegetarians millions more animals would be slaughtered every year. The question shouldn't be "how much are you helping", how much isn't really a reason for not being vegetarian. The question is whether or not you want to contribute to the things that go on towards the animals being processed, and I don't want to contribute at all.

Arguments that are based on mass numbers of people needed to change things annoy me. People use the logic that if you yourself were to not do it, then it wouldn't make a difference. If everyone thought like that it wouldn't ever make any difference at all. Take voting, my vote most likely isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference unless in a very unprobable circumstance I get the deciding vote for one of my local MP's, and that seat is also the deciding one for the majority in parliament. And yet without people voting nobody would get votes.

I'm not as concerned for the wellbeing of the animals. But I do see the advantages if there were more vegetarians. Considering that the live stock industry is related to many environmental issues and that it will only escalate considering that the population is increasing, vegans might benefit us environmentally.

I suggest we start getting use to insects. Full of protein and easy to produce.

on a side topic - people say that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? Can we not just eat vitamins with protein etc to balance that out?

And in all honesty I never ate much meat anyway...

Quote from Automaton

on a side topic - people say that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? Can we not just eat vitamins with protein etc to balance that out?

And in all honesty I never ate much meat anyway...

Eating legumes covers the protein part. And tofu..hehehe

Well it depends on what you eat. Eating too much meat is also considered bad. But as long as you have the correct nutrient intake, how can it be considered unhealthy? I'm sure there are supplements or plants/fungi that provide sufficient proteins, minerals, etc.

Quote from Automaton

on a side topic - people say that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? Can we not just eat vitamins with protein etc to balance that out?

We can, but it's not nearly as much as meat.

Quote from Preserve

We can, but it's not nearly as much as meat.

Guess I'll be unhealthy then.

Quote from Preserve

We can, but it's not nearly as much as meat.

That's not really a relevant point. The amount of protein that people actually need to be healthy isn't an extremely large portion. Most nutritionists agree that the amount of protein needed by a healthy adult is .37 times their body weight, which gives you the number of grams you need. If you look actually work it out, that's about 74 g for a 200 pound person, which I guess would be pretty muscular. If you are a *vegan* you could get that amount from a slightly edited version of the menu on this page: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm
That's ruling out eggs and milk, which are in the diet of many vegetarians, and are also high in protein.