I don't know why Cloud acts like an emo-ass in Dissidia and in Advent Children. Is it because Zack died? Or his emotions are mixed through Zack?

lol @ thread becoming another 'cloud is or isn't emo' debate. something post-dirge of cerberus needs to be released showing clouds attitude change. in dirge he was focused and confident, but I'm sure most of you never played that game. you could even see he was coming to grips with himself at the very end of AC. He's actually a deep, multi-dimensional character over the course of all the FF7 content. he had personality issues since he was a child, he goes from being a feeble, shy grunt in the shinra army, to a brash 'soldier', to a mentally unstable lunatic, to being deep in depression, and then finally coming to grips with his mistakes and moving on. I really have no idea why square-enix pushes his depressed persona all the time in other games (KH, Dissidia).

Quote from Hewitt

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Also interesting question: If FF7 never existed until NOW, coming out after FF13-2 with just the graphics being up-to-date and nothing else changing (like the story, battle system, theme, etc.), Would you guys like it?

of course. same goes for just about any of the other FF games, except maybe the first few since they're so bare-bones when compared to the others.

Quote from Hewitt

Also interesting question: If FF7 never existed until NOW, coming out after FF13-2 with just the graphics being up-to-date and nothing else changing (like the story, battle system, theme, etc.), Would you guys like it?

Yea for sure. I'm replaying a non remade version and enjoying it fully so I can't see why I wouldn't with a graphic rework (I probably would prefer it over the new systems >>) though it def. wouldn't have the same impact since some things are a bit dated and it won't have that first 3-d FF factor.

@Jeff: Yea Im around the end of disk 1 atm, Aer hasn't died yet so he's still acting OK at the moment.

If FF7 stayed the same I would still enjoy playing it. Although I could argue that if it was released today it would be a very different game due to the direction Squenix has taken, in which case it's hard as shit to say. I have 0 interest in the newer final fantasies.

Also when I say emo, I don't mean like scene emo, I mean emotional. I get opinions are opinions, and I know that Cloud isn't ALWAYS an emotional wreck, but in the majority of things that I've seen him in, he is. It's not because it's "popular to hate Cloud," it's because it's a fact. You like the character, so you're going to do everything you can to justify his actions and twist what he says and does to be something you'd find more ideal. I stopped liking the character when played it as more of an adult and actually paid attention to what he was saying, and understood it in the correct context, but at that point I had already had a distaste for tweens liking FF7 more than the older FFs, so in my mind I'm probably not able to see anything other than the negatives. I can accept that, it's just how he's perceived. It's more likely he's somewhere in the middle. I would much prefer if he fucking manned up and dealt with his problems rather than letting them stew and being a pussy faggot. Tentionmaru, you said he dealt with his problems and moved on, when does he do this? I would very much like to play or watch when he does, because I have never seen it due to how popular his gaping vagina side is with kids. Maybe I'll get over his flaws if he gets a new game where he's not being distant and pissy the whole time, even if it took him several games, a movie and and an anime series to get there.

Also Hewitt



As I type this my girlfriend is trying to figure out Zozo. I'm laughing

Quote from Jeff

If FF7 stayed the same I would still enjoy playing it. Although I could argue that if it was released today it would be a very different game due to the direction Squenix has taken, in which case it's hard as shit to say. I have 0 interest in the newer final fantasies.

Also when I say emo, I don't mean like scene emo, I mean emotional. I get opinions are opinions, and I know that Cloud isn't ALWAYS an emotional wreck, but in the majority of things that I've seen him in, he is. It's not because it's "popular to hate Cloud," it's because it's a fact. You like the character, so you're going to do everything you can to justify his actions and twist what he says and does to be something you'd find more ideal. I stopped liking the character when played it as more of an adult and actually paid attention to what he was saying, and understood it in the correct context, but at that point I had already had a distaste for tweens liking FF7 more than the older FFs, so in my mind I'm probably not able to see anything other than the negatives. I can accept that, it's just how he's perceived. It's more likely he's somewhere in the middle. I would much prefer if he fucking manned up and dealt with his problems rather than letting them stew and being a pussy faggot. Tentionmaru, you said he dealt with his problems and moved on, when does he do this? I would very much like to play or watch when he does, because I have never seen it due to how popular his gaping vagina side is with kids. Maybe I'll get over his flaws if he gets a new game where he's not being distant and pissy the whole time, even if it took him several games, a movie and and an anime series to get there.

You admit it has to do with your perception after you claim it's simply fact. You realize the irony in that post right? You claim it is I who twists things because I like the character, when it's the exact same thing you're doing because you want to not like him.
Also: Let's set some shit straight here, cloud from Kingdom Hearts and advent children is NOT cloud strife from FF7. It's obvious that the cloud in both of those are just fan service. Note how his character model is more sexually androgynous, how he's always bitching like a twelve year old kid and how sora has to save his ass from Cerberus, even though in FF7 the game you slap the shit out of much more fearsome monsters.

He deals with all his problems.
Aeris dies: He mourns and then moves on, but he never forgets. It was a blow to his ego, because he was the leader and it happened on his watch. It's only in the movie advent children that he continually fucking goes on about it like a broken record.
Whoops your reality is fake and so are your memories: He does find his resolve, as soul crushing an event it was he does get over it. I mean, if he didn't there wouldn't have been an end to the game.
Sephiroth: You do eventually stop him and save the day.
I don't see how he's NOT dealing with his problems.

The emotions only appear bottled up in KH and Advent children, which shouldn't be considered cannon.

The anime takes place prior to his false memories being built, meaning that he's not even really cloud yet. He's just a sephiroth clone trying to escape with zack. So the anime is pretty irrelevant.

Well the "clone" thing is another bag of rabid monkeys.
Does anyone else find it funny that cloud is practically referred to as a failed sephiroth clone but he's the only one out of all of them who actually reunites with sephiroth?

Quote from Jutsu

You admit it has to do with your perception after you claim it's simply fact. You realize the irony in that post right? You claim it is I who twists things because I like the character, when it's the exact same thing you're doing because you want to not like him.

You don't need to be condescending. The irony was intentional, I'm trying to come to a common ground by stepping back and looking at both of our positions objectively, but that seems to have gone right over your head I guess. Unforunately, you're doing what every pisshead fanboy does, so my point about you skewing the truth holds so true that it hurts. Too bad you'll never see it.

Squenix released official media from within the FF7 universe, this makes them canon unless otherwise stated by Squenix, who owns everything about it and appears to do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't matter what you think should be considered cannon, unfortunately. You don't get to pick and choose what you want to accept as true or official, thereby making your favorite little butt-buddy less of a blatant cry-baby fuck. You're also ignoring all the other shit he's been in, like Dissidia and Crisis Core. Did you play those? For everything he's been in, as official canon, he has clearly not gotten over or dealt with any of his problems. He's still always questioning his reality and everyone around him.

Squenix has MADE that character into a fucking wreck whether you really like it or not. If you're going to be obnoxious and only include the first game when analyzing him, then yeah maybe he's not so bad, but you have to look at anything official he's been in to see who he "is". It's like Dumbledore in Harry Potter, when J.K. Rowling stated he was gay. So many fucking people rejected that, even thought the author of the series stated it was the truth. If Squenix decided to reveal in a new FF7 movie that Cloud was actually gay, you'd have to fucking accept he was gay, or leave your head in your ass and pretend like nothing changed. Same goes for his shitty attitude. You can't just reject canon because you don't agree with it. You're not the fucking owner of that character.

Quote from Jeff

You don't need to be condescending. The irony was intentional, I'm trying to come to a common ground by stepping back and looking at both of our positions objectively, but that seems to have gone right over your head I guess. Unforunately, you're doing what every pisshead fanboy does, so my point about you skewing the truth holds so true that it hurts. Too bad you'll never see it.

Squenix released official media from within the FF7 universe, this makes them canon unless otherwise stated by Squenix, who owns everything about it and appears to do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't matter what you think should be considered cannon, unfortunately. You don't get to pick and choose what you want to accept as true or official, thereby making your favorite little butt-buddy less of a blatant cry-baby fuck. You're also ignoring all the other shit he's been in, like Dissidia and Crisis Core. Did you play those? For everything he's been in, as official canon, he has clearly not gotten over or dealt with any of his problems. He's still always questioning his reality and everyone around him.

Squenix has MADE that character into a fucking wreck whether you really like it or not. If you're going to be obnoxious and only include the first game when analyzing him, then yeah maybe he's not so bad, but you have to look at anything official he's been in to see who he "is". It's like Dumbledore in Harry Potter, when J.K. Rowling stated he was gay. So many fucking people rejected that, even thought the author of the series stated it was the truth. If Squenix decided to reveal in a new FF7 movie that Cloud was actually gay, you'd have to fucking accept he was gay, or leave your head in your ass and pretend like nothing changed. Same goes for his shitty attitude. You can't just reject canon because you don't agree with it. You're not the fucking owner of that character.

Woah, calm down sparky. Before your rectum falls out of your jeans.

I thought I was making an obvious attempt to rustle your jimmies and I guess I succeeded. And like I said I am willing to agree to disagree. You're objectifying me to your totally fucking silly perception of a fanboy simply because I disagree with you. You compare me to the hoipolloi masses of final fantasy fandom and then say that I am the one being condescending. Like in the previous post, you can see the irony in that right?

As for the cannon discussion. You're right, I guess it technically is cannon. But what I am saying is they blatantly changed the character design as deliberate fan service. I wouldn't consider it the same character. I was talking purely within the realm of finalfantasy7 itself. Basically 1997 cloud =/= new faggy cloud. It's like if in DragonBallGT they made goku a total punk bitch who was afraid to fight, completely contradicting previously obtained resolve and character structure. *Though DBGT is considered non cannon*. I feel like comic book fans do when their hero gets licensed to a writer who makethe hero into a total annoying faggot *Toby MacGuire in spiderman*. It would be considered cannon, but we wouldn't consider them the same character.
At the end of his own video game he had found peace and resolve, settled the problems within and that's all that matters.

Also I never played crisis core, I just assumed it was going to be fucking terrible. Was it any good?


P.S. Cloud isn't my favorite character at all, in fact I really don't like him much and he wasn't on the *what I think are the best characters* list I posted a while back. My favorite character is actually Ramza from tactics.

Quote from Jutsu

You're objectifying me to your totally fucking silly perception of a fanboy simply because I disagree with you.

No, not because you disagree with me, because you justify and validate your disagreement by saying stupid shit like, "I DON'T CONSIDER THAT CANON SO THEREFORE YOU'RE WRONG." Saying it's ironic that I'm calling you condescending for being condescending is kind of irrelevant, I treat people how I feel I'm being treated. If you talk to me like I'm fucking scum, I'm not going to reply with politeness.

Quote from Jutsu

As for the cannon discussion. You're right, I guess it technically is cannon. But what I am saying is they blatantly changed the character design as deliberate fan service. I wouldn't consider it the same character. I was talking purely within the realm of finalfantasy7 itself. Basically 1997 cloud =/= new faggy cloud.

That's the thing though, I'm talking about Cloud as a whole. If I was talking about JUST FF7 cloud, I would still call him annoying just for the parts where he was being annoying (the same way I call shadow annoying), but I wouldn't hate him as much as I do. I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't act whiny at all in FF7, justified or not, but when I played the game for the first time I didn't give a shit. It's the character's perpetual PMSing that I fucking hate. Every new thing he's in he seems to get worse and worse. I understand he's a fictional character, so I only really blame squenix for milking that. I have no idea why people eat it up so much.

Quote from Jutsu

*Though DBGT is considered non cannon*

Wait are you serious about that? Is it considered non canon by fans or is it actually non canon? o.O

Quote from Jutsu

I feel like comic book fans do when their hero gets licensed to a writer who makethe hero into a total annoying faggot *Toby MacGuire in spiderman*. It would be considered cannon, but we wouldn't consider them the same character.

Well, no. The difference with that is that those Spiderman movies were written as their own story. It literally isn't the same character. It's like how Christopher Nolan's Batman is it's own thing. The FF7 media, however, are meant to be the same character, as a continued story line. Not a separate universe. At least, as far as I know. I kind of try to stay away from the whole movies vs. source material thing though, because you get people who consider it a different character and like it for it's own merits, and those who can't differentiate between the new version of the character and the source material, and get mad when the new character isn't exactly like the source one.

Quote from Jutsu

At the end of his own video game he had found peace and resolve, settled the problems within and that's all that matters.

Like I said above, that's all that would matter if there weren't any sequels or other material. Unfortunately I'm not in the same boat as you are on this, I can't just ignore other official media he's been in. Other than Kingdom Hearts because I really consider that kind of like a compilation or a cameo, and not a "Well from this point Cloud somehow travelled to the Colosseum in kingdom hearts and then later travelled back or whatever."

Ok I can't be the greatest judge, because I haven't played all of them, but this is my opinion. First I will list the ones I have played.

IX - I played Final Fantasy IX when I was about 6. So this was about 1999 - 2000. Completed twice.
VIII - I played this sometime in 1999. Never finished it though.
X - I played this somewhere around 2001 - 2002. Since then I have completed it about 5 more times.
x-2 - Played very briefly when it came out (no idea when). Never got to play it much because it was rented only once.
XII - I first played this the day it came out in 2006. Completed about 3 times.
III (ds version) - Finished once.
XIII - Played this late 2010. finished once.

Let's list what I thought about all of them.

IX:

First off, I was very young when I played it, so I don't remember much about the story or the characters. But I do remember being largely engaged in the story. I thought this entire game was amazing. It definately left a large impression on me, and everytime I here songs from FFIX, it's nostalgia time. Another thing that makes me get all nostalgic is the potion/hi-potion effects. Whenever I see/hear it I practically jizz my pants. The gameplay was great because of the trance mode. I loved being a glowing pink Zidane. Was sweet. Kuja was a pretty badass antagonist. I never got to fight Ozuma :(. I have very fond memories of this game. Also for some stupid reason we never bought this game... instead we rented it every single weekend for several months.

9/10 (from memory)

VIII:

I remember even less about this game. Never finished it because we stopped renting it for some reason. Once again no idea why we didn't just buy the damn thing. I remember really liking it, I also enjoyed the increase in maturity level in comparison to IX. The game had an interesting fighting system but to be honest I can't remember that much, I was too young.

8.5/10 (once again from memory)

X:

I'm just going to start out by saying this is quite possibly the greatest game ever created (and the greatest game I have played).

- Story is perfect. It's understandable (unlike XII, VII, XIII). Everything makes sense, you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. YOU ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CHARACTERS AND SPIRA.
- Characters are great. Tidus does a great job as the lead role, especially in the voiced cutscenes where he reflects. We actually care about what happens to Tidus because the story is always told from his point of view, and everything you do has his goals in mind. Not very many games offer characters with as much depth as Tidus. He changes completey as the story unfolds.
- Gameplay was amazing, although pretty generic. There wasn't really anything overly original about it, pretty much just generic good ol FF gameplay. However the summoning system was amoung the best in the serious, and they were actually usual for once. The battle turn system was also great, and allowed you to plan your strategy more.
- Graphics were great for a game released in 2001 (or was it 2000. I can't remember).
- Post game is huge. There are tonnes of things to do, and one of the biggest is to max all of your characters stats. You see, FFX actually gives you the ability to completely max everything about your character, if you're willing to put in enough effort (I mean hundreds of hours of effort). Most people don't actually know about this, but the sphere grid can be completely re-aranged and replaced with only +4s and +300HP nodes ect. Another good thing is that this is actually nessassary to beat some of the post game bosses in FFX. For example, Penance, will fuck you up even if your whole party is maxed out. And it's incredibly rewarding pwning those dark aeons (after maxing stats), since they destroyed me over and over in the past before I knew about stat maxing.
- The item system is great. You really have to think about what type of weapons you want, and then if you know how to aquire the right items, you can make them. It takes hours of patience though, and not accidentally wasting important items on useless shit.
- Sphere grid was genius.

10/10 (Every time I play it, I love it more. Last time I completed it was earlier this year. I get sad when the story ends, every time) + Yuna is a babe.

x-2:

Only played this for about an hour. People hate it because you only play as females and because it's not part of the main series. I can't really judge. The fighting system seems fun though.

XII:

If this game had a better story, I would rate it higher than X.

- Gameplay is fresh and great. So many people hated the new gameplay, however I loved it, and it allowed the developers to create such a large world. The gambit system was genius.
- Story was meh. I can't remember much about the story. I never really cared that much. We aren't given much of a reason to care. Despite this, I still find the story/characters nostalgic.
- Characters are kind of the same, didn't really get to know them all that much. But they are still great, just not X quality.
- Graphics were 10/10. One of the best looking games on the PS2.
- The world was enormous. It was almost like playing an MMORPG, that's how big the world is. FFXII is possibly the least linear of the series.
- Post game is MASSIVE. You will spend more than 50 hours completing post game shit. This includes getting all of the best weapons (Zodiac spear, excalibur, yagyu darkblade ect ect), armor, accessories, mark hunting ect.
- Mark hunting is genious. There are 50 marks, and you sign up to complete each hunt. Each hunt consists of you slaying a certain monster. These monsters get progressively harder to kill. By the end you will be fighting GODLIKE marks. The last mark, Yiazmat, has 50,000,000HP and takes the average gamer several hours to kill (that's several hours without dying, when this thing can 1HKO your party in a second).
- Capturing espions is great. Especially the last couple. You will be wondering through hell and brimstone to find some of these, and then when you actually fight them, it's like you just stepped into mordor itself. It's intense.
- Also the lisence board was great.

9.5/10

III:

- I can't remember much about the story. Seemed meh.
- One thing I do remember is the class/job system. I loved the idea of giving each character a certain vocation/job and leveling them up in that job.

can't really rate it from memory

XIII:

- Graphics are superb
- Presentation is flawless
- Voice acting is great, although overdone at points
- Fighting system is a piece of shit. They already took a gamble with XII, and that paid off. So why the fuck did they change it again with XIII? They ruined it completely. The whole system is a joke, and you can only control one character. I felt like I was playing the whole game just by spamming the A button. Get your shit together Square. And no one wants to fight with two characters and a shitty monster (FFXIII-2. Just bring the old system back you idiots).
- Story is a joke. I had no idea what I was doing the whole game. At one point I was supposed to be protecting some god thing, the next second I am fighting him with no idea why.
- Characters are pretty decent. They all have visible motivations, however it's hard to see why they are all together and engaged in such a joke of a storyline, which even a genius couldn't unravel.
- The weapon system was pretty nice, I did like the way they made that. Too bad the combat system was so shit.

7/10

EDIT:

I really want to play VI
And VII (only to see what the GOD DAMNED FUCKING FAGGOT FUCKER fuss is about)