For real who cares if pivot is worse then flash or easytoon, if it wasn't worse then flash I would laugh, because flash costs like a trillion times more + 20-800 Dollar then pivot, since 0x A trillion is still 0, but ya thats pretty logical that pivot would be worse.

But its a good program, Its easy and the outcome is pretty awesome, there are ALOT more better pivoters then flashers, But thats of course because flash is harder and advanced, but Still Pivot can make some quality to, I have seen some pivot animations that are smoother, then any flash or 90% of the flash that I saw, and it never resizes your stick, you can make like a awesome stick, and you just have to move it, Not drawing it over.

But still its FREE >__> So duh. Yea <_<, In the end it comes down to skills. If you get HOW to animate, cause everyone can draw a stick and move it,.

Quote from Chimaera

When will people learn that animating skills are far more important than animating programs...

When will people learn that animating skills are far more improved by better animating programs...

Quote from Lixu

When will people learn that animating skills are far more improved by better animating programs...

Mhm, No its about skills, and knowing what your doing. im sure that with better programs you mean programs that do stuff for you, that requires no skill (or not :P), its true that the better program you have the more things you can make, and the better things you can make, BUT.

even with a program as pivot, or easytoon, who are free programs and which are pretty simple, you can make something very epic, if of course you have Skill But yeah pivot is dragging, still you must know what your doing, its basicly the same as flash, when it comes to easing and stuff like that, only there you dont have to draw the sticks over,

Quote from SSJBryando

For real who cares if pivot is worse then flash or easytoon.

lots of people. otherwise noone would have flash...

Quote from Lixu

When will people learn that animating skills are far more improved by better animating programs...

no they aren't.

A program doesn't enhance your skills. A more advanced program can merely provide you with additional TOOLS to aid you with creating an animation, but these are meaningless unless the animator in question actually decides to take advantage of them, and even then they don't necessarily make an animation better. In fact, it's often the opposite, people lean to much on the special features of the program they use and mask the fact that they actually suck at animating, much like inexperienced guitar players tend to crank up the distortion on their amps to mask any flaws in their playing.

Lets look at a hypothetical situation. Lets say in flash they added a feature that automatically generated perfect particle explosions for you, and all you had to do was specify some parameters. They would look great, but is it really "improving the skills of the animator" or is it just a crux for them to lean on as opposed to actually learning to animate an explosion without fancy tools?

Sometimes animations made in pivot or easytoon are actually a lot cooler, because if they are really good, you can appreciate the fact that the animator in question was able to make an excellent piece of work with only their own skills, and incredibly simple tools at their disposal. It's often far more impressive to see a well done easytoon explosion, painstakingly done frame by frame with only black and white to work with, as opposed to a flash explosion full of blurs and gradients, taking advantage of multiple layers and whatnot.

To use my guitar analogy again, it's the same reason that you can really appreciate a great solo acoustic guitar player, because they don't have any effects on their instrument, or even a backing band to harmonize with. They're simply using their own skills with the instrument to create music that is just as enjoyable as a complex composition written for a full orchestra.

Quote from The Pirate

As I always argue in threads like this, its the animator that matters, not the program they use. Someone who sucks at animation using a "quality animation program" wont produce a better animation than a skilled animator using pivot.

Is a watercolour painting a less valid piece of art than an oil painting because it was done with more primitive paints?

You're really not making sense when you say things like:


Because Easytoon itself does not make animations. It is a tool used to create animations. It's the person using the program that decides how good the animation will be.

Quote from Ash

Pirate wins. /thread

Quote from The Pirate

I think the main reason the pivot crowd as a whole are seen as bad animators, is because pivot tends to attract stick figure animators. This makes sense of course, since pivot is designed with sticks in mind.

I personally can't stand 99% of stick figure animations, regardless of the program. I find them as a whole to be generic, uninspired, uncreative, formulaic and usually lacking in any sort of style. Sadly there's a whole crowd of animators who see a good animation as the one with the more realistic fighting moves, and strive only to make a smoother punch, or better blood. Pivot attracts these sort of animators.

Easytoon on the other hand, being so simplistic attracts a lot of frame by frame, and traditional style animators. The minimalistic nature of the program means there are no gimmicks to work with, you can't even use colours, so easytoon animators are forced to rely on nothing but creativity and style.

Naturally, different programs will attract different "breeds" of animators. This isn't a fault of the program itself. Bad animators who want to churn out generic stick fights are going to flock to the program that best suits this purpose, and pivot by design just happens to fulfill that niche quite nicely.

Quote from The Pirate

no they aren't.

A program doesn't enhance your skills. A more advanced program can merely provide you with additional TOOLS to aid you with creating an animation, but these are meaningless unless the animator in question actually decides to take advantage of them, and even then they don't necessarily make an animation better. In fact, it's often the opposite, people lean to much on the special features of the program they use and mask the fact that they actually suck at animating, much like inexperienced guitar players tend to crank up the distortion on their amps to mask any flaws in their playing.

Lets look at a hypothetical situation. Lets say in flash they added a feature that automatically generated perfect particle explosions for you, and all you had to do was specify some parameters. They would look great, but is it really "improving the skills of the animator" or is it just a crux for them to lean on as opposed to actually learning to animate an explosion without fancy tools?

Sometimes animations made in pivot or easytoon are actually a lot cooler, because if they are really good, you can appreciate the fact that the animator in question was able to make an excellent piece of work with only their own skills, and incredibly simple tools at their disposal. It's often far more impressive to see a well done easytoon explosion, painstakingly done frame by frame with only black and white to work with, as opposed to a flash explosion full of blurs and gradients, taking advantage of multiple layers and whatnot.

To use my guitar analogy again, it's the same reason that you can really appreciate a great solo acoustic guitar player, because they don't have any effects on their instrument, or even a backing band to harmonize with. They're simply using their own skills with the instrument to create music that is just as enjoyable as a complex composition written for a full orchestra.

The Pirate pwned this thread...
why isn't it over

Quote from fitzy

lots of people. otherwise noone would have flash...

Yeah lol, What I said made no sense, I was trying to say something else (really =3 ) REAL:LY!>!>!>!> MAn, yes discussion is ova.

Pivot can be absolutely epic if done properly.

I've seen people in my class at school that have made a 1 minute pivot in a month, thats how much time they take over it, therefore they make it amazing.

A decent pivot is a rare thing, but when it happens, it blows your socks off!

Ok... with what pirate said. This thread is practically over. But, I think flash is actually better than pivot. Why? Because flash simply provides more tools. Otherwise all that matter is the animator themself.

this thread was dead, you bumped it.

bin please...

oh and of course flash is better, thats not what this thread was about... It was about if pivot as the program was of the same caliber as easytoon and flash as programs...