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Azarel CS.777
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Sep 8, 2017 6:23 PM #1483613
Quote from XDHunterNest
Oh, yeah. I'll get to it. xD Thanks for reminding me! :)


NP dude.
Oster

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Sep 9, 2017 1:15 AM #1483620
Someone I've been thinking of placing this one as my gladiator if i get tired of Erik. Some opinions would be nice.

Siene (Click to Show)

Weaknesses (Click to Show)

[/Spoiler]

The rest of her needed info is in the works but I'd like to ask if the powers are Op.
Vern
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Sep 9, 2017 2:43 AM #1483622
but I'd like to ask if the powers are Op.


Let me put it like this, the moment you have to ask this question is the moment you have your answer.

I'll go a bit more in depth as to why, but that's only because this character reminds me so much of June, my character I'd like to think you've never heard of but seem to be taking a lot of clues from.

So let's start with what this is about: Telekinesis and telepathy. Let me just be very brief here: These two powers are about as strong as they get. The thing with telekinesis is that it's basically everything-manipulation, so every additional power you give your character past that point is just a staple. You'll either end up using that other power because it is more readily available (Such as your character being able to shoot psionic lasers, so why would you need telekinesis?), or you'll end up using telekinesis all the time.

The real trouble with telekinesis is this though: What's there to stop you from instantly blowing your opposition to meaty giblets with your mind? An easy answer would be 'oh she can't lift other people', but that argument is kinda debunked by the fact that she can levitate herself, implying that she can indeed affect organic matter. So let's take it a step further: She can only affect people as a whole entity (EG not affect their arm seperately to rip it off). Alright, then my question becomes: What's stopping her from flinging her opponent a mile into the air and letting gravity take care of the rest? Not many gladiators are built for flight. Next argument, 'oh she's too inexperienced for that stuff and it strains her too much', alright, then why is she able to lift herself? As you can see it sort of keeps building.

So let's take a look at June and how I approached the situation: First and foremost, June is very inexperienced. She can only really launch herself a bit, she struggles to keep a grasp on other people if at all, in general her powers aren't all that refined. But despite that, she's still adept enough to take like, a sawblade and mentally chuck that at someone's neck at the speed of an arrow. Of course, that's a far more lenient approach than just "blow you to giblets" already, but it doesn't really suffice since telekinesis still has way too many applications that could kill someone in the blink of an eye. So the simple answer is that June doesn't kill. Sure, this doesn't bar her from just tearing people apart with her powers but you're going to be a lot more hesitant to use excessive force if lethality is not your intention.

But this isn't about June. I'd bring up how telepathy is also a whole deal on its own: the ability to read minds and always be a step up on your opponent is severe, but you say that that power is severely underserved and doesn't have any application in battle anyways, so let's move on.

Anything you add on top of telekinesis is excessive. The ability to make psionic energy weapons is nice and all, but kinda becomes irrelevant if you consider that the entire world becomes a weapon when you can lift things with your mind. The way I see it is that you have telekinesis on the material plane, and then all the psionic bullshit is just telekinesis on a.. (psionic plane?) So you'll have to scrap one of the two to start with. I wouldn't recommend scrapping the psionic deal, cause then you're just making a copycat version of a character that already readily exists, and I'd argue that the psionics stuff is more up your alley anyways.

Moving on, let's examine the other powers themselves. The two main psionic powers are enough for this character, you don't need any of the ultimate shit because these already give you enough depth in a gladiator. Let's break down why your ultimate moves and your weaknesses are bullshit;

The problem with any 'ultimate move' is that they are extremely boring and predictable and serve no other purpose than to be a plot device, or just excessive portraiture. They add no depth or value to the character. If you've this sort of 'trump card' abilities, I'll spell you out word for word how your every battle will go:

There's two scenarios,
1) Your dude fights the other dude. Due to circumstances or due to sheer matchup, your character is drawing on the short end and will have to escalate his efforts. The opponent beats your protag down, only for them to use the ultra and shift the tides and they come out on top.
2) You decide not to shoot your protag in the foot with screenwriter's bull and portray them with their actual strength. They roflstomp their opponent and end up blowing their ultra too soon because they're cocky or something ("oh look my character is overconfident that's an original weakness"), now they're drawing on the short end again and will have to escalate their efforts if they want to win.

Ultras are stupid. I'll just hearken back to what Richard once said about them: "Suppose your character has a gun. No matter which way you twist or turn it, if your character wants to win they'll end up using that gun. If they don't, why do they have a gun in the first place?" It's the same thing with ultras. They're just pretentious bull that might seem really cool when played out in your head, and may impress those who don't know any better, but they strangle creativity. As a result, they make a character bland, boring and predictable. If they don't even use the ultras, why the fuck do they have these moves to begin with? Just so you have a bullshit failsafe for when you as a writer can't think of a way to have your character come out on top without Deus Ex Machina? By all means, that just goes to show you suck at what you're trying to do. And don't get me wrong, it's okay to suck, as long as you have the intention of improving. Allowing this kind of storytelling in your stories just goes to show you don't give a rat's ass about what you're writing in the first place, so why the fuck should I be expected to give a shit?

Your weaknesses are bull too. I'm gonna pull up June again because I spent months thinking about how to balance her out. I'm not saying I know how to balance gladiators know, but I will say I have learned a lot about how NOT to balance a gladiator.

Absolute (numerical) weaknesses are bullshit. So you can summon five constructs and then what? You can't, if the situation demands it from you, exert yourself to summon a sixth one? What happens then? Does your mind implode? If you can't push yourself past five, doesn't that mean that already having five is straining you by quite a bit? Would having five smartphones be as taxing on your mind as five two storey buildings? These weaknesses and limits make no sense because there's no relativity to them. That's like examining the human body and arbitrarily deciding that it can take three bullets and then die. That's not how the world works, people have died from a single bullet, people have lived through an entire clip. Circumstances are everything. No power is absolute, no weakness is absolute. Heck, on a lazy day I could perhaps lift like, what, thirty kilograms tops before I say fuck it, but if you put me in a situation where I'm screwed, I can easily lift twice that if not more.

Rather than telling us the absolute limit, tell us the relative limit. From what point on is your character really pushing themselves? This goes for the first weakness too. What are the limits of her body? And don't give me arbitrary bullshit like "She can only use her full powers for five minutes straight and then they switch off like someone flipped a switch". Think about it.

TL;DR - You want to know how to make this a balanced character? Scrap telekinesis, scrap the ultras, and completely redo the weaknesses. Keep teleportation and telepathy only if you feel they're integral to the character. Say that she can fly by psionic energy alone, instead of just telekinesis, if you think her flying is important. Keep the psionic manipulation and constructs. And the mere mention of the word "Abyss" is already making me assume that this character is going to be overly edgy, so really try to surprise me there if it's not too late for that shit yet.
Oster

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Sep 9, 2017 4:49 AM #1483624
Thanks for the earnest reply Vern, it was very helpful, currently in the process of revising her.

True enough I'm stuck on revising her weakness, hopefully i can think of something soon enough. And well, I'm not trying to make her edgy. I just couldn't find a better name to give to the alternate dimension while keeping it's theme.
Vern
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Sep 9, 2017 4:59 AM #1483625
Quote from Oster
Thanks for the earnest reply Vern, it was very helpful, currently in the process of revising her.

True enough I'm stuck on revising her weakness, hopefully i can think of something soon enough. And well, I'm not trying to make her edgy. I just couldn't find a better name to give to the alternate dimension while keeping it's theme.


I'm just glad you're considering what I said in the first place.

As for the name, well I myself have always tried to opt for the most accessible names anyways so I can see where you're coming from. I'm just of the opinion that there's a particular set of names that are such staples that they're best steered away from. Though in all honesty, if it is an Abyss you're talking about then I see no need for change. Suppose it were to be edgy, it wouldn't be any less edgy were it called the Void instead, or whatever latin/greek bullshit one might come up with (if anything I'd argue the latter is even worse). So you do you.

Good luck with your stuff.
Crank
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Sep 9, 2017 5:23 AM #1483626
In addition to what Vern said, if you can't look at a handful of random characters and not see a good fight with them, there are likely some tweaks that need to be made. I'd try to come up with a good range like not weaker than X, not stronger than Y, but I'm having a hard time figuring out top slot
Azarel CS.777
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Sep 9, 2017 6:33 AM #1483627
I have a question. Can I rewrite my past battles so they, y'know, go with Azarel's story better (but of course the votes don't change)?
Crank
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Sep 9, 2017 6:59 AM #1483628
I don't see the harm in it, but I don't know where they'd go, to be honest. I would give the people you fought heads up though
Azarel CS.777
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Sep 9, 2017 7:02 AM #1483629
Quote from Crank
I don't see the harm in it, but I don't know where they'd go, to be honest. I would give the people you fought heads up though


Okay then. I'll rewrite my battle against Piasu and (maybe) Sharpiro after I finish my spar against Falcon, my new demo and my reworked story. Phew.
FalconX578
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Sep 9, 2017 2:08 PM #1483632
Quote from Azarel CS.777
Quote from Crank;1483628
I don't see the harm in it, but I don't know where they'd go, to be honest. I would give the people you fought heads up though


Okay then. I'll rewrite my battle against Piasu and (maybe) Sharpiro after I finish my spar against Falcon, my new demo and my reworked story. Phew.


Oh, you don't have to wait for me Azarel, I forgot to tell you, but I think it be best that I wait for jirochi (his new name :D ) first. Some of my story bits revolve around what happens (I made two versions, one if I win and one if I lose). Jirocho says he had an emergency trip for work. I hope he's alright as of now, it was pretty very important what he said. All in all, I'm hoping he returns sometime soon, our battle was supposed to be the 30'th of August, but if he doesn't show by like end of September, I may have to post my part, seeing as how he should be back by then, at least you would think so.
Azarel CS.777
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Sep 9, 2017 2:13 PM #1483633
Quote from FalconX578
Oh, you don't have to wait for me Azarel, I forgot to tell you, but I think it be best that I wait for jirochi (his new name :D ) first. Some of my story bits revolve around what happens (I made two versions, one if I win and one if I lose). Jirocho says he had an emergency trip for work. I hope he's alright as of now, it was pretty very important what he said. All in all, I'm hoping he returns sometime soon, our battle was supposed to be the 30'th of August, but if he doesn't show by like end of September, I may have to post my part, seeing as how he should be back by then, at least you would think so.


Oh, okay then dude. First, i'll work on Az's demo, then his story, and then VS Piasu. But I don't think that I'll rewrite Azarel VS Ethernu.
buckethead
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Sep 11, 2017 8:34 PM #1483689
hey there everyone I am here to see what you guys all think of a new fighter or group of fighter that I came up with. Cnc would be most helpful.
The heads of Cerberus (Click to Show)


Weaknesses (Click to Show)

[/spoiler]
Azarel CS.777
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Sep 20, 2017 8:59 AM #1484010
Quote from buckethead
hey there everyone I am here to see what you guys all think of a new fighter or group of fighter that I came up with. Cnc would be most helpful.
The heads of Cerberus (Click to Show)


Weaknesses (Click to Show)

[/spoiler]


Huh, interesting... and yes GreekGladiator, I guess you're seeing more and more characters from Greek.
Chromium7

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Sep 20, 2017 11:31 PM #1484037
I'm pulling this quote out of it's context for a moment, but I'm keeping the link to its original intact. Let's talk. What do we think about this idea here:

Quote from Vern
So what am I here for, then? Well first of all to tell you that quantifying your character's attributes is bollocks.


Or the idea of putting numbers on character powers and abilities. Is it bollocks, is there a way to set it up to where it isn't bollocks, and so on. I might end up spiraling this out into a larger discussion later on, but I'm going to try and keep it simple and focused for now. Let's talk numbers.

One of the more common uses of numbers to work out character powers is a stat system. I don't know if there's a single uniform one that everyone pulls from, but the ones I see here usually look something like this, but more detailed and lengthy:

Strength:
?? / ??
explanation

Speed:
?? / ??
explanation

Intelligence:
?? / ??
explanation


And personally I think that's okay depending on the explanation and the numbers you give. Even if some would insinuate the pointlessness of all of it.

Quote from Vern
As I told Oster, your character's limits, powers and weaknesses are always relative to the circumstances they're in. Putting an absolute "7/10" on it is pointless because it's probably a five on average, and an eight at most.


If this is the case, then listing the stat as 5-8/10 probably wouldn't hurt. Nor would just explaining how the stat is only meant as an estimate anyways, in the event that it is. Which does raise a fair point, mind you -- why would you say your character has a uniform strength of 9/10ths of what it would take to lift 10 tons, when they can, in all actuality, lift 9.1?

Quote from Vern
Perhaps you could argue that these stats represent your character at his strongest, but then they lose all meaning because we've no indication as to how strong your character is on average. You can't put a number on all three (weakest/average/strongest) either, because you can't ever know just how far you can push yourself.


Can't you, though? Can't you say that about your character? It would be different when it comes to guessing at your own strength, but if your character can, at the current moment, lift 9.11 tons, max, at the present moment, shouldn't you be able to say that? I'm not saying you should be that precise with it -- you really shouldn't -- but if you're specifically designing a scenario where that .11 tons of leeway comes into play, then that's something you should be able to say about your character. If your character can lift just above 9 tons, and is going to, then you should be able to say that your character has trained to lift just above 9 tons.

That might sound like an arbitrary example -- and it's certainly an oddly and unnecessarily specific one, but let's apply the same framework to a different example. JimmyBlaze 's FireBlazter has fire so hot... it can... uh...

We're not really sure how hot JimmyBlaze's fire is. But we know it can boil water. It's not quite as hot as the biggest star in the universe, but I mean, it could be warmer than the surface of the sun. Yeah no, you're going to have to be more specific. I'm not saying it has to be out of ten, or a hundred, or hell, even a number at all, but give me an idea here. We talking 200 degrees Fahrenheit, or 200,000? When the picture you're painting is that vague, giving us some numbers to work with really wouldn't be a bad idea.

But you've got to be careful with numbers too, just like you should be with words. Take Vern's universe destroying biscuit example:

Quote from Vern
Suppose you had a biscuit, but his power is that he can destroy the entire universe instantly. He'd score a zero on every category because he's a fucking biscuit, except on powers where he'd get a ten. His total would then be 10/70, vastly below the power curve, but he's stronger than literally everything conceivable because he can obliterate the universe instantly. So there goes your estimate.


To chart this out for you, here's the biscuit's stats as Vern's listing them in this example, and how you should probably actually list them if you were making an actual profile of this:

Vern's Stats (Click to Show)

My Stats (Click to Show)


so really...

Quote from Vern
Point is, putting numbers on your powers is dumb. They mean nothing, so don't do it.


only if you list them out like that, smh
Piston1937
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Oct 14, 2017 2:37 PM #1484627
YES I have finaly balanced out my score

4 wins and 4 losses.
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