Stickpage, and Fluidanims before it, was intended as an animating site.

That above statement has been clouding my mind and thoughts for quite a while now. As a man who has virtually quit animating to pursue other creative avenues, but still follows the stickpage community, I often wonder why I'm still here. But then I remember: Fluidanims, stickpage... that one corner of the internet that reeled me in with that one... long-forgotten catchphrase "Bringing Back Creativity." Stickpage, the place where I feasted my eyes with things like the Castle Series, Xiao Xiao... where I idolized animators like Stone, Terkoiz, Hyun, Drifts, LF2, Jcamelo and LuccasBode, god rest his soul. I grew up to... Stone's livestreams, minimizing IRC convos when the parents walked in, getting over that huge internet barrier and talking over skype, making legitimate internet friends who, sadly, have played bigger roles in my lives than anyone in the waking world.

I consider myself one of you all. But somehow I never had the spirit to face those endless repeating frames, to get over my shaky hand or short attention span. I hardly ever animated, and it killed me. Eventually, I settled in one of FA's subforums; the writer's lounge. Myself and many others aided in the creation of what we now know as wRHG; the written RHG. It was easier for me to write than to animate. Somehow writing for an hour was less tedious and more satisfying than animating for an hour. Slowly I started paying attention in language arts, I found where my interests lie, and slowly I started to drift away from the animating to become a dedicated writer. A few years down the road, it happened; the merge. Everybody wasn't sure what to make of it, hopeful hesitant. All the young animators were catered to and, for the most part, satisfied.

Sadly, I was no longer a young animator.

We tried at first; the writer's lounge, now a tightly-knit unpaid authors, pushed for a broader literature section similar to what we'd worked for and established on Fluidanims. We had clans, our own unofficial division, and more importantly a home. Now I'm not sure where our home is. It isn't something I blame the animators for, not at all, but while Fluidanims brought back creativity, Stickpage has had little such luck.

Don't get me wrong. I say this at a time where we now have wRHG as an official subforum, writers are flocking back to stickpage, and we're even going so far as to get things like clan pages up and running. There are changes in motion that I am deeply thankful for, and I myself am almost ready to give up my own site to come back with you guys. I have no hard feelings, I'm too tired. I just want to come back to the community that helped me unlock my potential, discover my passions and meet the people that have made my life what it is today.

So where does the debate come in? What's the question here? What are we supposed to talk about?

The writers are back. That's almost official, and you better fucking believe it'll be official when we get the Freeborn Collaboration prepped and posted. The question is what our place will be now that we're here. As a guy who has been posting stories for the same few people on the same few sites for the past few years, I'll admit I would love little attention. Would be great to have people actually reading those stories I was posting on that site I made and updated for myself.

So here's the question. For all those who already TL;DR'd, it's in big letters. You're welcome.

Should Stickpage as a website be paying more attention to writers and artists who do NOT animate, but still make an effort to post creative content for others on Stickpage itself?



Debate.

i believe they should...but they sadly don't...i don't even think they will bother themseves reading the full topic like i did...this is an animation website...so all the attention goes to animating...but on the other hand those stories can be turned to animations(i think that was the goal from the whole writing section)so yes attention should be made...but its not n the meaning time...

Quote from THE RISER

i believe they should...but they sadly don't...i don't even think they will bother themseves reading the full topic like i did...this is an animation website...so all the attention goes to animating...but on the other hand those stories can be turned to animations(i think that was the goal from the whole writing section)so yes attention should be made...but its not n the meaning time...

I'd like to disagree. The idea of written RHG's sprung from from exclusively written battles between people like TheMurphness, WeiEn, Bond84, even Hyun, who just wrote up battles in their spare time. There was little intent of animating the battles, albeit some pretense, but any battle too detailed or deep to be explained with stickfigures duking it out on screen was just written. The wRHG system, a later development, was in fact made and approved under a much more literature oriented community. Authors like Kyra, Hazzerdous, Warcorrespondent, and others you've likely never even heard of, along with myself, took part in this development. While it was underground and tucked away, yes, we had our own little system with polls for voting and everything. We even got to the point of wRHG clans, two giants being The Deserted Stars and Freeborn. Hell, people even tried something similar in the drawing section; though it never caught on, there was at one point a Comic RHG between Jessepinwheel and another whose name escapes me. Now that's starting to come back; I myself just got off skype with a few of the guys and gals from Freeborn and we're considering a collaboration. We were and still are very much alive.

My point is that in the end the people who were around when this took place are still here. My point is that even if you don't think things like this will catch on doesn't mean you shouldn't try and give it a read, or take a glance at some of the artsy folks' drawings and pixel sketches. If you've got the patience, some of this stuff can actually be meaningful, and if you think nobody else will catch on, if you're reading our stuff we've already got one guy into it.

Quote from Chromium7

I'd like to disagree. The idea of written RHG's sprung from from exclusively written battles between people like TheMurphness, WeiEn, Bond84, even Hyun, who just wrote up battles in their spare time. There was little intent of animating the battles, albeit some pretense, but any battle too detailed or deep to be explained with stickfigures duking it out on screen was just written. The wRHG system, a later development, was in fact made and approved under a much more literature oriented community. Authors like Kyra, Hazzerdous, Warcorrespondent, and others you've likely never even heard of, along with myself, took part in this development. While it was underground and tucked away, yes, we had our own little system with polls for voting and everything. We even got to the point of wRHG clans, two giants being The Deserted Stars and Freeborn. Hell, people even tried something similar in the drawing section; though it never caught on, there was at one point a Comic RHG between Jessepinwheel and another whose name escapes me. Now that's starting to come back; I myself just got off skype with a few of the guys and gals from Freeborn and we're considering a collaboration. We were and still are very much alive.

My point is that in the end the people who were around when this took place are still here. My point is that even if you don't think things like this will catch on doesn't mean you shouldn't try and give it a read, or take a glance at some of the artsy folks' drawings and pixel sketches. If you've got the patience, some of this stuff can actually be meaningful, and if you think nobody else will catch on, if you're reading our stuff we've already got one guy into it.

i don't know what to say...you got me on that one...and you proved your writing skills too !

The site gives away some time to Writing lounge, they're getting the system established, and they jot their ideas. What i think the writing section lacks is roleplaying games.

The fact that most of the people on stickpage don't have English as their first language might be one of the reasons why everyone pay so little attention to the litterature section; they can't fully enjoy what people do.
Then, for peple who actually speak English, I'm thinking about the lack of readers as a social phenomen: our society and mostly young people (not just SP) do not read as much as it used to be (ex: 47% of french people between 14 and 20 years old didn't read any book in 2009, and 27% only rode 6 books or less. Also, according to the UNESCO in 2009, 70% of the countries in the world have libraries who got less than 200 books for 2 million inhabitants).
Just my opinion though...

Quote from Shynzo-Nai

The fact that most of the people on stickpage don't have English as their first language might be one of the reasons why everyone pay so little attention to the literature section; they can't fully enjoy what people do.
Then, for peple who actually speak English, I'm thinking about the lack of readers as a social phenomen: our society and mostly young people (not just SP) do not read as much as it used to be (ex: 47% of french people between 14 and 20 years old didn't read any book in 2009, and 27% only rode 6 books or less. Also, according to the UNESCO in 2009, 70% of the countries in the world have libraries who got less than 200 books for 2 million inhabitants).
Just my opinion though...

Ah yes, I forgot the amount of foreign viewers has been increasing... Who knows though, we do get detailed critiques out there sometimes, it could be a decent opportunity for people to increase their knowledge of English? I'll tell you what though, some of the earlier stories I posted on FA when I was about 12 or 13, you wouldn't have been able to tell English was MY first language! Interested to see if we pick up any non-english-speaking writers. Either way, people like Crank and Lancer are really going out of their way to guide some of the new writers here on stickpage, more than my lazy ass has been up to lately.


As for the decline in reading in whatnot, I think that it's not JUST a decline in reading in general, but also that books and the conventional definition of 'reading' likely used in those surveys, is starting to shift towards things like eBooks, reading, posting, and publishing blogs or articles and the like. Nobody's writing books any more, but instead we have relatively intelligent, relatively educated people who are still inclined to do things like ask questions, something you can see by just looking at any of the debate threads in this subforum. I feel stickpage is ready for something as deep as a few good, albeit long, stories every now and then.

Quote from Sadko

The site gives away some time to Writing lounge, they're getting the system established, and they jot their ideas. What i think the writing section lacks is roleplaying games.

Hm... I'll see if any of the big roleplays on some of the other sites, like Clocktower, are willing to make the move over to Stickpage. I'll pose the question to some of the other writers in a bit.

Quote from Shynzo-Nai

Just my opinion though...

*RAGE* It is not your opinion at all. You stated facts. Have a little faith in yourself.

Personally I'm way behind on my fiction reading from published authors, let alone the SPP mob. It's nothing personal if I avoid the literature section; I just don't enjoy it. I know Sacred and Devour both write, so I would hope you're not too short of moderation.

Should we pay you more attention? Well, the entire point of the forums is to make things available for criticism from those who are interested in looking and criticising. There's not much we can do to force people into something they're not interested in. Feel free to advertise in your sigs or host some competitions amongst yourselves which could filter the good stuff to the top.

First of all, nice post. I enjoyed reading that. Shows that you're a writer.

Now, I don't animate much these days either. (Even though I could.)
It's just not as fun for or rewarding for me as making art. I mostly draw and paint now, but the art section really is a mess. It'd be wonderful if the art section could get a dedicated moderator, or some official competitions/events. Most decent art is buried under massive amounts of MS paint "stick art". I don't even always bother to post my work there, since it often feels pretty pointless.

I appreciate the literature section a lot, and I sometimes visit to read some stories that peak my interest. Not very often though, because there aren't all that many writer here yet. There's a slim chance of me writing anything though, since I'd rather spend that time drawing. I have thought about collaborating with a writer though, for a comic project, or something of that nature.

But yeah, I don't think that Stickpage is obliged to cater to us, but it sure would be nice if it would.

Quote from Leokill

First of all, nice post. I enjoyed reading that. Shows that you're a writer.

Now, I don't animate much these days either. (Even though I could.)
It's just not as fun for or rewarding for me as making art. I mostly draw and paint now, but the art section really is a mess. It'd be wonderful if the art section could get a dedicated moderator, or some official competitions/events. Most decent art is buried under massive amounts of MS paint "stick art". I don't even always bother to post my work there, since it often feels pretty pointless.

I appreciate the literature section a lot, and I sometimes visit to read some stories that peak my interest. Not very often though, because there aren't all that many writer here yet. There's a slim chance of me writing anything though, since I'd rather spend that time drawing. I have thought about collaborating with a writer though, for a comic project, or something of that nature.

But yeah, I don't think that Stickpage is obliged to cater to us, but it sure would be nice if it would.

Touched a few chords with that one... hard being a writer, artist, or game-designer on an animation-oriented site, eh?
I think it's pretty important for anyone here, animator, writer, sculptors if you're out there, to look into each others' work. I know I myself have found that user-created music, art, poems, are pretty inspiring and interesting even if they're way outside of what you yourself would ever consider creating. I'll make sure to browse through the community artwork section more often and keep my eyes open for some of your work, Leokill.

Quote from Hewitt

I kinda don't get the question. Attention under what capacity? The mere fact that a wRHG system or an OLit Section exists shows that this place at least cares for such an outlet to exist. So there's your attention right there. Stickpage isn't censoring or forbidding the production of anything non-stick related that should be considered in the arts like writing, music, and other kinds of art. So there's nothing to chastise the site about.

But if you mean attention in the capacity by which how the portal and official competitions exist to cater to stick animations then you'd have to look at it from the POV of the site admin. Those exist to generate traffic and revenue. They're shelling out money for these competitions, as an investment in order to put months-worth of quality animation up on the portal. To prolong the site's existence. Such things can't happen for a writing capacity. At least, not in a place like this.

I do understand though that some or many of the original writers were either ex-animators or still-animators who want to partake in a practical and cheap hobby. But those people (me included) write because they want to and they want to have fun. Improvement is not mandatory, but that's why the vets are here. There is no proper way or mantra to help people get better around here, but as I recall we help each other out anyway and as long as we keep doing that, people will appreciate us in that capacity.

I have strayed in that last part, but basically, what I'm saying is SP doesn't have an obligation to care about what the writers and the other non-stick animators do. But that doesn't mean they don't. And we shouldn't either.

Yeah, I may have confused my intentions a little. I'll probably still stick around no matter what the site does at this point, and I'm in no way trying to undermine anything the site's done. Sorry if I'm sounding frustrated, there's very few sites out there devoted to creative writing, and maybe half of me wants SP to be that site. But all interests aside, the point of this thread is just to see how people feel about how everyone here, ideally the animating majority, feels about the increased emphasis on writing and wRHG. Is where it's at fine, is it too much for a place intended as an animator's hideaway, or are we not going far enough; game, music and art design are still nowhere near the level that literature is getting to (http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?47295-wRHG-System-Establishment), though the amount of people showing interest in such attention in those categories IS much less than what we're getting in the writer's lounge. Interested to hear the overall opinions on this.

What could build up some of this attention you want is some unoffical comps, in most of the sections. Not much other that animation is going to get sponsership, but doing small quick comps with some larger ones, in lit and art, is going to be fun, draw the people that are interested, and best yet, filter the best for the casual viewers to the top.

Oh heck yeah. A couple friends of mine are already sketching out a collaboration between the five of us. There'll be plenty to read.

You might mean how much StickPage members are devoted to writing than other things like animation and art...
StickPage basically is an stick figure related site, could be an animation, art or literature. It supports everything, the problem is though, most people don't know how to write. Most find it boring, not saying it's really boring, even people are bored with animation, even if they have still just drawn the first five frames. I'm planning to include writing in my hobby (so maybe, um, help me improve? lol), so that I can contribute to the writing community :)

English is not my native language, back on FA it was really difficult to me to understand some posts and stuffs. Even tough FA was an animation website, there were A LOT of people joining the writers lounge, some of the good animators went to that section pretty often to find some inspirations to animate. And I enjoying reading tons and tons of paragraphs of creative stories (and learnt a lot of English btw), not wRHG necessarily, a lot of other things.

When I came here I was looking for the writer's lounge to read some again, but there wasn't. I think there should definitely be some section in the forums just dedicated to writers. We have some really talented ones over here.

Yeah, I deeply think writers should get more attention here, but look at the name of the site, stickpage, so it's basiclly mostly about sticks, but I cannot deny that a big chunk of the community here does other stuff. I think that a time will come when this site will evolve into something bigger, something that is more dedicated to most types of art/hobbies.