Countering tree spam is grinding. You barely have any fun, and you get pissed as well. OvC is fun, and if you lose, you may rage, but you understand your mistakes better and try harder next time. If it wasn't for rating, I would have surrendered every game against tree massers since those games are boring as fuck.
"Main reason I didn't tree spam was it caused lag. After the lag patches I didn't tree spam much because I wasn't playing ele much. When I did play ele, I tree spammed."
You lost child.
"Virtually everyone below 1.9k in my CvO matches would not know the right meta to play against Chaos."
Virtually everyone below 1.9k would most likely lose to a tree masser with order and rage about it.
Virtually everyone below 1.9k would most likely lose to a tree masser with chaos and rage about it
Also, both the above categories would probably either go to the SE chat, or come here asking for more Ele nerfs
Virtually everyone over 1.9k would take atleast 5-7 minutes , which actually seem like years, since they are so dull, to beat a tree masser once he gets going.

Quote from Skeletonxf

Main reason I didn't tree spam was it caused lag. After the lag patches I didn't tree spam much because I wasn't playing ele much. When I did play ele, I tree spammed.

Tree spamming is much easier to counter than OvC. I don't know how you can claim to know of this ratio when you don't even tree spam yourself. Virtually everyone below 1.9k in my CvO matches would not know the right meta to play against Chaos.

I doubt you would lag out. It would still work out for you. Nonetheless, fight me and I'll show you the power of tree spam.

Quote from HattoriHakuya

Ayy it is
(although that IS weird coming from a guy with girl pictures all over. Nigga at first, I thought you was a guy, butt then, I saw soo many gril pics, im like okay maybe tis is gril after all, but tehn Gaymer tells me you is guy. RIP me trapzoned

lmfao you have not seen the otaku community of enjin
99% have gril pictures xddd

Quote from lewislewis

CHampions always dig in deep and find a way to win look at Chelsea in the Premier league.

OR look at WHZ would WHZ abandon a win if it was a boring win or the way to get that win was boring.

Its the devs duty to balance the game its not the players job to not use easy or unfair ways to win

lol yes he would. "Myst is stalling, this is not the game i wanted to play, #yolofight"

@Kaito

Trust me, no one knows how to OvC. Case in point, Antis lmfao. It's only when you get high enough to have good chaos players added in code and start to hit chaos players more regularly that you have to really learn how to deal with it. Same with elementals. I'd argue players OvE are worse cause Ele is newer.

Quote from DragonArcherZ

I'd argue players OvE are worse cause Ele is newer.

And maybe because no one ranks with ele.

three months ago before t2p I still ranked a bit with ele , but 99.9% of matches I won easily with ele, because no one knows how to counter ele
so whenever I won with ele, I must see some people talking shit on using ele , about ele op or something (yet I was the only player remained in top 50 with ele)

since then I gave up ele as no one knows how to counter it, and playing it ruins my mood due to those trashtalk.

But in my mind OvC and OvE are the same. OvC is early game battle, sword + archer vs bomber + cats. OvE is med game battle, sword + archer vs tree/charrog + fire/air. The more you play it, the more you are familar with it.

Quote from HattoriHakuya

Countering tree spam is grinding. You barely have any fun, and you get pissed as well. OvC is fun, and if you lose, you may rage, but you understand your mistakes better and try harder next time. If it wasn't for rating, I would have surrendered every game against tree massers since those games are boring as fuck.

And? Ele is boring and there's no monopoly over OvE being 'harder' than OvC. You're just arguing my points for me now.

Quote from Skeletonxf

And? Ele is boring and there's no monopoly over OvE being 'harder' than OvC. You're just arguing my points for me now.

I honestly find any games that involve short maps are boring lol

OvO short map = sword + archer meta and end in 3-4 mins, and more shitty in lag
OvC short map = either chaos user get fked by sword spam, or order user get fked by bomber rush.
OvE short map = either elemental user snipe something with castle air/fire, or order player snipe the earth/fire with archer/sword , then end up dealing with some tree/charrog games.

All short maps are bs

Quote from mysterybat

I honestly find any games that involve short maps are boring lol

OvO short map = sword + archer meta and end in 3-4 mins, and more shitty in lag

OvC and OvE yup, but CvC and EvE short is funny.
Also OvO doesn't have to be SA v SA, you can opt for AAS or AMS as well, which diversifies the match. Frankly I find OvO on long maps boring because nothing impactful is going to happen for the first few mins, and after that eco isn't so weak and a few unit losses won't mean so much.

Quote from Skeletonxf

And? Ele is boring and there's no monopoly over OvE being 'harder' than OvC. You're just arguing my points for me now.

As said before, tree spamming does not represent the elemental empire. You were supporting tree spamming and comparing it to chaos. Elementals are a unique empire, they are not bad when you figure them out. I find OvE as both sides fun.

@DAZ, two posts above yours.

"you can opt for AAS or AMS as well"

lol good luck doing that

"OvO long maps"

pretty decisive manuevres can be pulled off at that level. In my opinion, OvO is a matchup of fine control and overall decision making, which makes it exciting due to having both sides.

Quote from Skeletonxf

OvC and OvE yup, but CvC and EvE short is funny.
Also OvO doesn't have to be SA v SA, you can opt for AAS or AMS as well, which diversifies the match. Frankly I find OvO on long maps boring because nothing impactful is going to happen for the first few mins, and after that eco isn't so weak and a few unit losses won't mean so much.

not really. OvO SA start is only common in low level matches

in high level gameplays , AMS is common

but AAS is just a dumb start used by people like miscrits. So actually the only two choices are either ASS, or AMS , and both are heavily dependent on micro. Lag eliminates micro, making it more bs.

For CvC, even your lose one bomber or cat, it does not matter much.
But OvO, once you lose the archer , there is almost no chance for you to comeback, making it more stupid, and more difficult for order players to rank, especially 4/7 maps are short maps.

OvO long maps if you are talking about gate/forest/ice, I don't really find it boring, it requires much macro mind, early spear works, but wall build or swords/archer build both can counter it, and you even need to use the brain to think of miner hustle timing and
meric+magkill timing. Magkill push space, archer fire arrows to snipe, spear bash to stun, everything can work. And the whole game is about utilizing the eco and army advantage bit by bit, you lose a few, you still have chance to comeback.

If anything impactful happen in the first few mins and immediately end the game, it is just bs.

On another note, I really like OvC because of how dynamic the matchup is. OvO, as I've stated is often about fine control + decision making, but often that fine control revolves around 1 area of the game (to shut down a spear v spear rushing the opponent's eco, wall and forget)

Meanwhile, dealing with bombs especially if they sac'd cats to go into early bombs is about splitting swords properly between their base, tower, your own, miner control, so forth. Games can easily start splitting into multiple locations. Along with that, two distinct matchups are shown, v Wings is usually fast paced and looking for snipes, while v Deads is about the momentum and parade pushing players can do. I find OvO games don't keep such sustained battles as long as one player usually delves into a turtle to try build towards a mid-late game win while OvC battles can often be minutes of non-stop engages, especially with deads due to the lack of retreat potential.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

As said before, tree spamming does not represent the elemental empire. You were supporting tree spamming and comparing it to chaos. Elementals are a unique empire, they are not bad when you figure them out. I find OvE as both sides fun.
@DAZ, two posts above yours.

Myst has said that ele has to tree spam to win at high levels of play. I too think it does and you seem to be the only person still claiming any other macro works for ele at high level.
Pumu used to support Chair and he's gone silent on it in the last few months.

Ele isn't bad, it's boring to play against trees and silly to be playing with anything but trees on classic.

Quote from Skeletonxf

Myst has said that ele has to tree spam to win at high levels of play. I too think it does and you seem to be the only person still claiming any other macro works for ele at high level.
Pumu used to support Chair and he's gone silent on it in the last few months.

Ele isn't bad, it's boring to play against trees and silly to be playing with anything but trees on classic.

I think you misunderstand my sentence a bit tho

I did not mean ele has to tree spam to win , I mean it is necessary to use trees, and usually when I use ele in high levels of play I only use a max of 3 trees.

Chair is also used by some 2k+ playesr like nutophast/masteraik/MrFoOker , and it actually work
And I even think pure charrogs, charroginferno, V start, all these can also work.
But again, when facing someone 2.3k+ , you must use trees(not mass tho).

recently I met a player called OxManaT, he used ele, but he is really creative and talented. Even though he used tress (2-3), but he used a combination of charrog + V + cycloid in his build, ended up he almost won me , we had a 17 min game and that was really fun. So that depends on how you play it. As long as it is not "pineapple" game style who make 8 trees in front of your base, that should be ok

Quote from mysterybat

I think you misunderstand my sentence a bit tho

I did not mean ele has to tree spam to win , I mean it is necessary to use trees, and usually when I use ele in high levels of play I only use a max of 3 trees.

Chair is also used by some 2k+ playesr like nutophast/masteraik/MrFoOker , and it actually work
And I even think pure charrogs, charroginferno, V start, all these can also work.
But again, when facing someone 2.3k+ , you must use trees(not mass tho).

recently I met a player called OxManaT, he used ele, but he is really creative and talented. Even though he used tress (2-3), but he used a combination of charrog + V + cycloid in his build, ended up he almost won me , we had a 17 min game and that was really fun. So that depends on how you play it. As long as it is not "pineapple" game style who make 8 trees in front of your base, that should be ok

hattori also used 2 trees I think