Quote from lazar72

I agree with mystery but still there is a big chance of getting small maps in CvO which is insta win for order. There is no way to stop SA or MSS with chaos unless order player is noob. On the middle-sized maps empires are balanced.

We are talking about tournament settings, so banned small maps (kinda dumb imo but wyz's rules).

@alternate because low level players simply aren't able to use crawlers and bombers to their full potential. Not even low level though - I believe there to only be a couple of C players who can really abuse the early game. So when we say 'low level', its a lot more broad than that.

@nutsophast Not certain really. I think making crawlers have a smaller auto-regen, and then allow an upgrade to increase it to how it is now, (probably for like 50g 50m, same price as rage). That way taking hits on crawlers is just as bad as swords taking hits (which is a big issue now).
Also deads I think should have a smaller range - lower than that of archers if not the same, as well as an increase in their training time by about 2-4 seconds.

Good thoughts on how to improve balance Zomar. One question would be the archer issue on OvO, as I think we have also discussed seeing rage reduced in time to train, or spears mana costs dropped to give order more options outside of archer spam. Would the above changes also work with rebalancing order?

Isnt adding burn damage to bomber and reduce bombers burn damage already a nerf? Reducing crawler's regen would make them useless, they would be used only as bomber shield. Im pretty sure chaos and order are pretty balanced. You must either harras too much or turtle to much to defeat chaos. Mages archers shadows and merics are perfect for destroying chaos right?

@Aliternate in the new patch jugg and spearton's mana cost will be reduced to 25

Those changes seem nice zomar. Order is so centralized around archers it's not even funny. I'm all for buffing rage, 25 mana for spears/jugs would be nice. Also helps against turtlers. I think buffing albows might also help steer the meta away from just archers.

I think even archers need nerf tbh , the dps and mobility is high , and the cost-efficiency with just 300g is too good
make it slightly expensive like 350g maybe better

I don't like the 25mana for spear/jug tho, 50 mana is good enough and stable for long time. Making it to 25mana, may just favor more stupid spear mass. Tho it has not been implemented yet, so dunno.

Quote from lazar72

I agree with mystery but still there is a big chance of getting small maps in CvO which is insta win for order. There is no way to stop SA or MSS with chaos unless order player is noob. On the middle-sized maps empires are balanced.

Not really, CvO in small maps is still pretty balance, chaos stand a fairly good chance if you adapt to it. Basically as chaos you just need to switch a bit, focus more on early army and get less miners, everything works the same as in mid map.
And I met tons of SA rusher/MSS in short maps (who are laggy/ high ranked) , such as Izuqhi, gaismail, hin1023, spartanotaku, etc, and none of them win me in short map even I play as chaos.
I got 12-0 against Izuqhi , who is 2.2k, and a well-known laggy player. Straight 9-0 gaismail as well.
I have plenty of replays to support my argument, I can send you those replays if you want.


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p.s seems all of us are out of topic

Not sure about archer nerf. I think the most logical nerf would be to revert price back to 350. But if they were to buff allows maybe archer should stay the same.

@Lazar the burn damage on the bombs was more of a buff. It increases the overall damage output of a bomb, however if you were to use 2+ bombs together on the same units, they now do a smaller amount of overall damage (as burn doesn't stack). More often than not bombs are used individually with crawlers.

Increasing archer cost to change OvO meta will heavily affect OvC and OvE though. Albows would need a decrease in time/cost/damage if archers were to be nerfed.

25 mana instead of 50 for jugs and spears is meaningless to OvO meta. If anything that would buff C more due to their higher dependance on mana units.

This is why this game fu cking sucks anymore,

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay11784487&version=2.29

He ping jumped repeatedly to 2000, and totally fuc ks up micro of any units...

But no abuse, even though tons of players have had him do this to them, and allah has been doing this to people for a year now.

The other option with volatility is to make Chaos more volatile rather than nerfing it. Chaos rather uniquely comtrols that OvC early game right now. If Order had far cheaper fire arrows and rage with a little splash damage added with shorter research times we might be able to see 1:30 to 2:00 Order taking the pace of the game by making even large groups of Crawlers vulnerable. If Chaos had to split crawlers to deal with fire and rage splash damage we could make OvC more responsive instead of nerfing Chaos and could solve the early Chaos game control issuse. Obviously this would make Chaos struggle even more on short maps so base health regen could get a slight buff to help out Chaos and cats for Castle.

The nice side effect is OvO introduces spacing too and OvE is less tree based (splash on scorplings). Best of all imo is having splash damage in OvO introduces new players to spacing so they'll find OvC a bit easier to learn.

Quote from Skeletonxf

The other option with volatility is to make Chaos more volatile rather than nerfing it. Chaos rather uniquely comtrols that OvC early game right now. If Order had far cheaper fire arrows and rage with a little splash damage added with shorter research times we might be able to see 1:30 to 2:00 Order taking the pace of the game by making even large groups of Crawlers vulnerable. If Chaos had to split crawlers to deal with fire and rage splash damage we could make OvC more responsive instead of nerfing Chaos and could solve the early Chaos game control issuse. Obviously this would make Chaos struggle even more on short maps so base health regen could get a slight buff to help out Chaos and cats for Castle.

The nice side effect is OvO introduces spacing too and OvE is less tree based (splash on scorplings). Best of all imo is having splash damage in OvO introduces new players to spacing so they'll find OvC a bit easier to learn.

Giving Order early access to splash damage could be interesting. It could maybe be a replacement for fire arrows, though it would have to have a very small AoE, lower damage and no burn.

Or, just get rid of castle.

Quote from alternate

Or, just get rid of castle.

Castle is bae.

Maybe fire arrows are just a penetrating arrow of burn damage?

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they got rid of short maps altogether. Add those new features already.

Tbh this thread should be called "Laggers' Supporters"

Quote from ArcherFish

Tbh this thread should be called "Laggers' Supporters"

There aren't really many, if any at all, exploiters at the moment.