I know, ANOTHER RELIGION DEBATE.


Ive been thinking about this.
What is actually the point of religion.
Is it actually real, or is it metaphorical guidance?
Or it is something else all together?
Because as an athiest, I find that life can be really depressing at times, when thinking about death. When you dont believe in god, heaven, hell, and all of those things, you realise (or believe) that after death there's nothing.
And so my theory is that perhaps religion was created to stop people from becoming, for lack of a better word, depressed, suicidal, that kind of stuff.
May seem weird but there you go.


So, what are your thoughts on the matter?
Real, metaphorical, or something else?

(try not to turn this into an arguement, people.)

You could just read through the recent religion debates, you would be able to see our opinions on the matter. This is pretty much identical to those threads anyways.

I'm pretty sure it was a way to explain things that seemed to be supernatural to people when they didn't understand it, like how life began.

Answer this if you are an atheist. What could you lose by believing in god? And following it?.. On the other hand, what could you lose if you don't believe in god, and for some chance he happens to be real? I don't think you want to make that mistake. Being atheist is supposed to represent some sort of defiant attitude, saying '' OH WELL THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD SO FACK IT'' , well?.. Think about it.. I wouldnt want to **** up that bad.. besides even if god isnt real, by following SOME of what it stands for you can actually improve your everyday life. Especially like you said, by knowing you move on when you die, that is the most comforting feeling of all. Don't let all these negative fools mess you up. If you believe in god all of your life and follow the bible, and when you die it happens to not be real, then what? You obviously wouldn't know so it doesn't matter does it?.. Think about that.

Quote from kaillera

Answer this if you are an atheist. What could you lose by believing in god? And following it?.. On the other hand, what could you lose if you don't believe in god, and for some chance he happens to be real? I don't think you want to make that mistake. Being atheist is supposed to represent some sort of defiant attitude, saying '' OH WELL THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD SO FACK IT'' , well?.. Think about it.. I wouldnt want to **** up that bad.. besides even if god isnt real, by following SOME of what it stands for you can actually improve your everyday life. Especially like you said, by knowing you move on when you die, that is the most comforting feeling of all. Don't let all these negative fools mess you up. If you believe in god all of your life and follow the bible, and when you die it happens to not be real, then what? You obviously wouldn't know so it doesn't matter does it?.. Think about that.

I'm not much of an atheist anymore but I will give it a shot.

If you depend on something that wont deliver you will be constantly disappointed, if your prayers are never answered etc. Also if you rely to heavily on something it will become a clutch, and you will lose your independence and self reliance.

I would rather spend my life living the way I want to, rather than living in fear of going to hell because a really old book tells me I will. If I make that mistake then shit I made a mistake and Ill burn in hellfire for eternity, but what happens when you start relying on a god that disappoints?

Atheism is not supposed to represent some sort of defiant attitude, I guess you think anyone who disagrees with your point of view is defiant and is a rebel, thats pretty ludicrous.

Your right, standing by what you believe can improve your life, and that is the same for atheists and Christians alike. But standing by what you believe and not listening to other people are two different things.

And yeah if you die and there is no afterlife, you wont really regret it. But what about all the things you are missing right now because of following the bible to a T?

Quote from kaillera

Answer this if you are an atheist. What could you lose by believing in god? And following it?.. On the other hand, what could you lose if you don't believe in god, and for some chance he happens to be real? I don't think you want to make that mistake. Being atheist is supposed to represent some sort of defiant attitude, saying '' OH WELL THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD SO FACK IT'' , well?.. Think about it.. I wouldnt want to **** up that bad.. besides even if god isnt real, by following SOME of what it stands for you can actually improve your everyday life. Especially like you said, by knowing you move on when you die, that is the most comforting feeling of all. Don't let all these negative fools mess you up. If you believe in god all of your life and follow the bible, and when you die it happens to not be real, then what? You obviously wouldn't know so it doesn't matter does it?.. Think about that.

Do you really think
I never thought about that? I was a Christian untill January 2007. I turned 16 last December.

Religion is a way for people to find peace of mind. People prefer to have peace of mind and have a place to go when they go. You could still be atheist and believe in an afterlife. It all depends on your preferences.

@Jeremy, the wonders of being Christian is having a God who is willing to forgive, and forget.

Anyway, I have been reading a interesting Sci-Fi novel called Snow Crash, and in it Religion is portrayed as a biological virus, where the human brain actually NEEDS religion to be "complete".

Religion isn't necessarily divinely based, it is really just a way of observing life and practicing how you behave.

Christianity: The Bible
Buddhism: The teachings of Buddha
Islam: The Koran
Atheism: Science and the law.

Quote from kaillera

Answer this if you are an atheist. What could you lose by believing in god? And following it?.. On the other hand, what could you lose if you don't believe in god, and for some chance he happens to be real? I don't think you want to make that mistake. Being atheist is supposed to represent some sort of defiant attitude, saying '' OH WELL THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD SO FACK IT'' , well?.. Think about it.. I wouldnt want to **** up that bad.. besides even if god isnt real, by following SOME of what it stands for you can actually improve your everyday life. Especially like you said, by knowing you move on when you die, that is the most comforting feeling of all. Don't let all these negative fools mess you up. If you believe in god all of your life and follow the bible, and when you die it happens to not be real, then what? You obviously wouldn't know so it doesn't matter does it?.. Think about that.

If you are an Atheist, you are a ****ing Atheist. Pretending to believe in a god would be the complete opposite of what a god would want, and false believing wouldn't work anyway. If you don't believe, then you just don't.

I see Atheism in a good way. It has no downsides. On one hand, you get to forge your own path in life, thinking that you are in control and that there is no one supermega being that you can never be better than. If anything, the idea that I can never be the best is a depressing one. I would never want to just submit to the fact that a god is better than me.

As an Atheist, you figure out life for yourself, you make morals on what you believe and you enforce them not because you are afraid of hell, but because you know it is right. You are a functioning member of society who is more immune to mob mentality, and you do what you think you should do. Atheists are the ones who don't have to be taught their morals.

And the fact that people say "Oooh Atheists are all going to hell" don't even understand hell. Hell is for sinners. A benevolent god would want us as humans to make up our own minds, rely on reason instead of blind faith, and to go with what we think. There is no proof of god, so I do not believe in him. If your god was any good, then he would understand that. Not believing is something I have decided for myself. If I died and god came before me, demanding why I didn't believe in him, I would reply, "Not enough evidence, god."

Reason is a powerful tool, and if a god did create us, then he obviously gave us the ability to reason. Why would he give us something that would eventually make some people stop believing? We follow our minds, and we should not be punished for it.

I stand by my idea that there is nothing after death. When you die, you die. Knowing that, I know that I want to do as much as I can in life and experience it fully. And I want to leave something behind, like books or something, so I will become immortal through people remembering me. I don't dwell on the idea that there is another life. I make the most of what looks like all I have.

In conclusion, Atheism is not negative. It is a different, more reasonable outlook to life in my opinion that lets you think for yourself, go by your own good morals, and make the most of what you have. "Why not believe in god, because if you die then its either god or nothing." This is a weak approach. I believe in what I want, and any kind of good god that you seem to believe in would respect that.

Quote from Steiner

@Jeremy, the wonders of being Christian is having a God who is willing to forgive, and forget.

Anyway, I have been reading a interesting Sci-Fi novel called Snow Crash, and in it Religion is portrayed as a biological virus, where the human brain actually NEEDS religion to be "complete".

Religion isn't necessarily divinely based, it is really just a way of observing life and practicing how you behave.

Christianity: The Bible
Buddhism: The teachings of Buddha
Islam: The Koran
Atheism: Science and the law.

That's a great fucking book.


Anyway, people seem to have this notion that atheists are unhappy, that they are afraid of death. These kinds of stories are told among those who are uneducated, and they view them as a model of the atheist, a cowardly weak willed individual who uses lack of faith as an excuse to be immoral. They say things like "There are no atheist in fox holes" and tell each other that after a family member died they got mad at God and became an atheist but then something happened that made them love God again.




Let me tell you about who I was as a Christian before joining in on the debates here on SP and SPP.


I was a church boy that got angry when people cussed or said "Oh my God".

I thought that when I died I would go to heaven and see my dead father again.

I wore a rubber band around my wrist, and when I said a "bad word" I would snap it hard to try to break my habit and "appease god"

I vowed not to have sex until I was married, and I said that if any of my kids were atheists, I would beat them until they said they loved God.

I thought that atheists, Wiccans, Pagans, and other such groups were all other words for "Satan Worshiper"

I read on the internet about how the Bible said the end of the world would end and was amazed at how the numbers in the Bible matched up with things in politics (Like how a seven headed beast was described in Revelations and how the Eastern European Union was made up of 7 countries)

When my pastor said that the bible had a story that went in a certain way, I just accepted it as the truth and let it be a new part of my model of the religion.

When I started making computer games, my dream became to make the first really good Christian video games, since they had a history of being terrible.

When discussions of evolution arose, I said that I only believed in "partial evolution", that we evolved from cave men but not apes.

I didn't understand anything about genetics or physics until near the end of my time as a Christian.

When I finally started debating here, I made a thread about a really hopeful idea I had that would explain the possibility of the existence of an omnipotent being. The thread is here: http://www.stickpageportal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20767

The kinds of things I said are still said now by many people. Things like "dinosaurs couldn't have evolved by chance" and "why do pigs taste good" and the thing is, I actually believed the things I said. The reason I did is because I didn't really understand evolution, and because of my religion, I refused to properly learn.

Along with this, I explain wormholes incorrectly, and obviously misunderstand the ideas about what happens when they close up on an object.

If you look at that thread, you'll see some old faces, like Dragon077, Zmobie (Now Pagan), Kegman, V. Valentine, among others.

We have all advanced around each other.

We made each other better debaters. As I grew to understand their ideas, I began to rationalize better. I began to HAVE to understand the theories that contradicted my religion to be able to debate well. Then I grew to respect the logic in the theories. Even believe them. This was very confusing, since I KNEW they were contradictive to my religion, but I just tried not to think about it.

Go back for a moment and look at the things I said and did when I was a Christian at the beginning of this post. I was not a happy child. I was trying to ensure my passage to heaven by becoming a better person, and this even involved physically hurting myself.

Well, I did question my faith. I did occasionally when I was about 12 and onward after that. I mostly just went from "God exists" to "He doesn't" and back again for a few minutes then forgot about it. I didn't think much of it.

Well, the final spark came after I started listening to the band A Perfect Circle. I was having a conversation about the band with a bass player in my Art II class in late January, and the annual school talent show was coming up. He said that he and his band would be playing "Judith" at the show, and I asked him about whether he would change the lyrics. See, the song had the word "fuck" in it, and I knew the school would get pissed about it. He said "No, we're just gonna go out and say '**** your God, your Lord, your Christ!'"



This is the thing that really caused the wheels to turn in my head. I had only heard the song once, and when I heard that line, I turned the song off immediately. I even considered stopping listening to the band, even though it was my favorite, simply because they were atheists.

Well, that day I went home and I played the song again. My idea was "Well, I never really gave it a chance, so I'll try it again."

So I listened to it and loved it. I loved the emotion, the passion.

Then I asked myself if God would get mad at me for listening to it.

I panicked and deleted the song from my computer. My heart started beating faster.

"Wait", I thought to myself, "it's not like I agree. I just like the way it sounds. Why should God be mad? Why should I refuse to listen to something I like just because of it saying that line?"

This was the final bit. Something clicked in my head, and I asked myself yet again, for the hundredth time if God existed.

I had a conversation in my head with myself a bit like this:

"He doesn't exist."

"Yes he does."

"Well, why do you think he does?"

"Because I know it in my heart"

"But you don't really feel that. It's just fear that keeps you there."

"Yeah, but no, I'm staying here"

"No. That's it. You're done hurting yourself. You're done trying to pretend that you believe the stupid arguments you use in debates on stick page."

"But-"

"NO. He doesn't he doesn't he doesn't."

This is where I panicked. I still had the "I'm going to hell" mantra sounding off. I had to remind myself that I didn't really believe myself. I kept going on like this for an hour. Finally, I calmed down and accepted my status as an atheist.

The point of all this isn't anything except that I am an example of a person who sees the beauty in life by itself. I don't need an afterlife when I have what I actually know is here and I can do my best with it.

And no, I'm not afraid of death, and knowing that it is nearing won't change my faith or lack thereof. I will always dare to be an atheist in a foxhole.




I don't want anyone thinking I'm saying that my thoughts as a Christian were common among any group. This post was just about personal experience, not the lives of others.

I'll leave this with a quote by the legendary writer Douglas Adams, who died before I got to know his work.



[SIZE="4"]"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"[/SIZE]

I hope that answers some of your questions. that's the first time I've ever opened myself up that much, and it felt pretty good.







P.S. Before someone comes in and says something like "Oh, so you became an atheist because of a stick animation forum?" I'll say this:


Yes. And I'm glad to say I did. This site is populated with some of the greatest debaters I've seen in my life. People like Aeriks, Dragon, Zmobie, The Pirate, OGrilla, and others are so intelligent that I can't begin to describe or hope to aspire to their level. I do my best, and they do (or did) theirs. I think that the fact that we all came together because of stick animations was just a coincidence and that it's not relevant.

Quote from Ash

[SIZE="7"]HUGE MOTHER ****ER OF A QUOTE[/SIZE]

Well said, pretty much how I became an atheist as well only minus this site making me atheist.

/thread

Well, I was kind of the same way. Except instead of a song, it was porn that started the whole god/evolution debat going through my head. Although I don't ever really into the whole church thing as you said you were. It was just a place I had to be on sunday mornings and I just kind of accepted what I was told as the truth.

dumb .

its current day mythology.

@Lawl at Ash, I am guessing that you have read it as well.

Referring to Snow Crash again, were the idea that Jesus came to take the power of religion from the Aristocrats and back into the people so that everyone can experience a true knowledge of God. True Christianity, is where you believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Trinity, but you connection with God is personal and therefor not organized. The Church quite often acts like a normal corporation and serves its own interest before the people.