Quote from Rusender

I get what your saying. Like how if someone is raised to be a certain religion, there is a high chance they will stay in that religion. People around us shape our choices.

But why do we have so many different kinds of people? You can take two christian families, and if they are raised exactly the same, you won't have kids who act the same. there will be a lot of similarities, but they still chose there final path.


By the way, theres a post on page 3 I believe everyone's gonna miss. Please read it, I actually sat down and wrote it so yeah.

No.

Its not just how you're raised. Adults in Nazi Germany weren't raised as Nazis.

It's authority figures in your life, peer pressure, etc.

Every social influence has more influence on you than your personal belief.

There's an experiment that shows it, I'll find it later.

Quote from Rusender

No, thats what I meant. But whatever your influence, you still have the choice. Its still your choice, whether or not you were influenced.

But that social influence is overpowering to what we like to consider normal standards of morals, conduct, and behavior. So in reality you don't actually have a choice. You just do what people have decided is best for you to do.

Quote from Rusender

But don't you choose to give into the influence? You can choose to not give into it, and go your own way.

No.

This argument is starting to get circular.

I am not going to restate my opinion again just so that you can restate yours.

Ok guys, i just found this video on the internet though digg.com . it pretty much, in a nutshell states my point. except the guy that says it is slightly more respected than me. (note: I literally found this video just now. my views up to this point have been strictly my own)

(url=)current.com/items/89011597_q_a_with_stephen_hawking

Sorry, I can't link for another 8 posts.

Quote from Schwa

No.

This argument is starting to get circular.

I am not going to restate my opinion again just so that you can restate yours.

Just that an experiment shows that most of the people on earth are easily influenced by others, doesn't mean that it is impossible not to be.

Also, aerokes. You assume that god has the same ideas of perfection as we do. Why wouldn't he be able to have moods? Who decided that one mood is better than the other? Something that is beyond theoretical, or practical improvement, can still be changed. The change doesn't have to be for the better, or the worse. Just a change. My point is that there isn't necessarily one thing that is perfect, while everything else is wrong. Different people think of different traits as good. The way I see it, God should absolutely be able to change his book, without making it any less perfect.

Quote from alive

Just that an experiment shows that most of the people on earth are easily influenced by others, doesn't mean that it is impossible not to be.

What a silly argument.

Well if most people are than that means a majority. Which means the average. Which means normal.

So an ordinary human being is easily influenced. So unless you're extraordinary you will be easily influenced by the settings around you.

And I'm pretty sure when we think about things in terms of people we don't think of outliers. We think of norms.

For one to say that God doesn't have moods, would mean that you have a perfect understanding of God. Which quite evidently you don't (no offense). You are also looking at everything to black and white. It isn't wrong to pick up a rock the decide to put it down, anymore then it is wrong to throw the rock instead of putting it down.

Quote from alive

aerokes. You assume that god has the same ideas of perfection as we do. Why wouldn't he be able to have moods? Who decided that one mood is better than the other? Something that is beyond theoretical, or practical improvement, can still be changed. The change doesn't have to be for the better, or the worse. Just a change. My point is that there isn't necessarily one thing that is perfect, while everything else is wrong. Different people think of different traits as good. The way I see it, God should absolutely be able to change his book, without making it any less perfect.

As far as the entire mood thing goes, I look at it like this. Of all the flaws of our human selves, what causes most of them. Our emotion's, which controll our moods. on a simpler scale, what control's our emotions? the chemicals that make up our brains, and our body's, and how they interact with other things around them. If god is truly an omnipotent being, who does he have to interact with to change his mood, if he has one in the first place. The only people he would have to interact with is us, who he created to be where we are. So that would be talking to yourself.

Quote from Steiner

You are also looking at everything to black and white. It isn't wrong to pick up a rock the decide to put it down, anymore then it is wrong to throw the rock instead of putting it down.

As i stated before, if god were to change his mind, it would mean that he either didn't like what he created in the first place, or his opinions change. How can something you know the outcome of, change your opinion once you see it happen? That would be like me writing a novel, and then halfway through the novel that 'I' wrote, start to sympathies with one of the characters, and change their situation. If the novel is how I intended it to be, and assuming god is perfect, it would be, then why would he change his mind. He would have the foresight to see himself now, and know what he wanted at this instant in time, therefor changing us in the original plan, to suit his liking for the future.

God (if he exists) has a plan that we cannot comprehend. If he has a plan at all.

Prayers are not pointless. Though we may not receive anything through them because God will not change his mind. They have a point in relieving stress, feeling absolved, and giving hope. All of which are vital to human survival.

And, perhaps, assuming that humans do have free will, or even if they don't. God expecting us to pray to him could be one of his ways of determining the direction of his plan. Either as a measure of an individual or a society.

[ Also, just throwing this out there. Emotions are not something that god would be removed from. The thing that seperates man from animals is not only our ability to think but our ability to feel. So assuming that God did model humans after his own image, god would be a very thoughtful, emotional guy. ]

Just my poorly minted two cents.

Quote from Schwa

God (if he exists) has a plan that we cannot comprehend. If he has a plan at all.

Prayers are not pointless. Though we may not receive anything through them because God will not change his mind. They have a point in relieving stress, feeling absolved, and giving hope. All of which are vital to human survival.

And, perhaps, assuming that humans do have free will, or even if they don't. God expecting us to pray to him could be one of his ways of determining the direction of his plan. Either as a measure of an individual or a society.

I couldn't agree with you more. With out prayer, spirituality, and guidance, the human race would have screwed itself over a very long time ago. I pride myself (something I don't do often) on being able to know when my body needs hope, or happiness, and feed my own needs. I don't need a god in the same since that most people in this world do. But we shouldn't run to a church to show our feelings for god. People should themselves reach to god, or whatever higher power they believe in, and make a connection (be it imaginary, or real). We shouldn't' rely on other people to make that connection for us. To many people sandbag through church just to get the benefits of going to Heaven. The Baptist church strictly teaches a doctrine of "Once saved, always saved" as do many other Christian churches. I think that as people, we should take responsibility, not only owing it to ourselves, but everyone around to be the best people we can be at all times, and not just when we think god, or other people are watching. The fact that we need a god in our society proves our immaturity as a race, and shows how much room we have to grow if we don't blow ourselves up the the process.

Quote from aerokes

Text

Oh.

Well.

Yeah.

I have nothing intelligent to say in response to that.

You could also say that the human mind couldn't comprehend the ways in which god acts perfectly. We are using our finite understanding of perfection and comparing it to an unending supply of knowledge.

But honestly thats kind of cheating.

@ aerokes. How do you know that by God changing his mind that, it wasn't part of his plan? Or the way that he was going about it, something different may of come up later due to human interference.

Believing in a higher being with absolutely no signs and nothing but a book that was obviously written upon lies and the like, printed by slaves again and again, provoking crusades, etc is bullshit.

Also, god killed over two million people while Satan only killed ten.

I believe that even if god was real, Satan would in the long run be more merciful.

God pwned the isrealites, without mercy, wasn't it?

Quote from Steiner

@ aerokes. How do you know that by God changing his mind that, it wasn't part of his plan? Or the way that he was going about it, something different may of come up later due to human interference.

I think your missing my entire point... Human interference wouldn't effect gods mood, or personality, because the only way humans would interfere is if god told them to... I explain it better ^