Still, nobody in chaos goes for a juggerknight start once they pass the 1400s. They all usually go for crawlers and bombers, both of which are almost useless against the spearton. So, provided the chaos user does not expect this start, would it be possible to win against chaos with a surprise spearton start?

Edit: I now have a link to a battle between me and a chaos player. Tried that early spearton against him, and to my surprise, it worked. He was massing bombers, though, so maybe if he had been using crawlers it would have been different.www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1994575&version=1.68

Quote from Wyrmspawn

Still, nobody in chaos goes for a juggerknight start once they pass the 1400s. They all usually go for crawlers and bombers, both of which are almost useless against the spearton. So, provided the chaos user does not expect this start, would it be possible to win against chaos with a surprise spearton

Chaos likes to use fast and cheap units.

The bomber is a good unit for dealing with groups, and the crawler is a weaker but faster and cheaper alternative to the swordwrath. Also the price of the ranged unit (300 gold and 100 mana) and the flying unit (400 gold and 150 mana) means lots of late, experienced chaos players will mass and rush the weak, fast and cheap units.

If the swordwrath didn't cost as much order players would do the same as chaos, and some do still try to mass and rush with mixed results:

Swordwrath mass vs Speartons = Swordwrath win
Swordwrath mass vs 1 Magickill and Speartons = magickill and speartons win.
Swordwrath mass vs juggerknights = juggerknights win
Swordwrath mass vs juggerknights and 1 marrowkai = juggerknights and marrowkai win

Now with Crawlers...

Crawler mass with pack mentality vs speartons = crawlers win
Crawler mass with pack mentality vs 1 magickill and speartons = crawlers win
Crawler mass with pack mentality vs juggerknights = Crawlers win
Crawler mass with pack mentality vs juggerknights and 1 marrowkai = juggerknights and marrowkai win

Crawlers seem to be very effective when upgraded which may be a possible reason but...

Juggerknights are very powerful but cost the same as a spearton so it baffles me why the chaos players don't go for a powerful unit first.
I observed a replay of two high rating (above 2000) players, one order, one chaos and the chaos player used the crawlers as a distraction while the bombers finished the remainders. later after each side had more than eight miners, the chaos player made eclipsors and juggerknights, as a backbone force while the order player used albowtrosses and speartons with 1 giant (Med size) and went on the offensive.
the Chaos player won with 2 juggerknights and 1 eclipsor surviving when the order opponent surrendered just at the end of the battle between the forces.

I think most chaos players just use crawlers and bombers as a defence, as the castle dead is only good against enemies with one health bar and the units are more suited to attack or offence and as it takes time to make juggerknights if the crawlers were any less powerful it would make the chaos player prone to get rushed.

I also noticed chaos is better at attacking and shows this in its units and upgrades Eg Juggerknight charge. while it seems that order is much more defensive as turtleing does not work as well with the chaos units.

Hope i helped :)

I would have replied earlier, but I was convinced I'd get laughed out of my own thread, since I'm a noob.

But here's a noob's guess to why juggerknight start isn't that popular:

It has the same problems as spearton start.

First of all, the juggerknight will win against the spearton, but 3, maybe even 2 swords and an archer can kill the juggerknight.

The reason I suggested this for chaos is that the chaos players only have bombers and crawlers as starting units. Unless they go pure crawlers, this strategy should help you dominate heavily in the early game.

The reason this isn't advisable against order is that order's basic units, the archidon and the swordwrath, can defeat speartons more easily than chaos's starting units, the crawler and the bomber.

If you're a decent kiter, all it would take would be an archer and 2 swords to kill a spearton or juggerknight. That's what I think, anyway.

Crawler mass with pack mentality vs 1 magickill and speartons = crawlers win
Crawler mass with pack mentality vs juggerknights = Crawlers win

These two are wrong. Magikill is like a better marrow. Blast will take most if not all the crawlers. And crawlers have little to no chance winning against juggers

Quote from _Ai_

Crawler mass with pack mentality vs 1 magickill and speartons = crawlers win
Crawler mass with pack mentality vs juggerknights = Crawlers win

These two are wrong. Magikill is like a better marrow. Blast will take most if not all the crawlers. And crawlers have little to no chance winning against juggers

i watched multiple replays of the battles i mentioned.
For crawlers vs Juggerknights i got that wrong, the juggerknights won not the cralwers, but the crawlers did beat the speartons and magickill as they attacked the magickill FIRST then the speartons were killed leaving only a few cralwers AND The maickill only had blast (If it had the other spells it may have won). Also the crawlers had pack mentality which helps out a lot in massing.

Hope i cleared that up

Quote from Wyrmspawn

I would have replied earlier, but I was convinced I'd get laughed out of my own thread, since I'm a noob.

But here's a noob's guess to why juggerknight start isn't that popular:

It has the same problems as spearton start.

First of all, the juggerknight will win against the spearton, but 3, maybe even 2 swords and an archer can kill the juggerknight.

The reason I suggested this for chaos is that the chaos players only have bombers and crawlers as starting units. Unless they go pure crawlers, this strategy should help you dominate heavily in the early game.

The reason this isn't advisable against order is that order's basic units, the archidon and the swordwrath, can defeat speartons more easily than chaos's starting units, the crawler and the bomber.

If you're a decent kiter, all it would take would be an archer and 2 swords to kill a spearton or juggerknight. That's what I think, anyway.

What you just said sounds pro. not noob to me :)

I've successfully won starting with a meric. But it was a very difficult beginning to transform into a properly functioning one.

How did you make it work?

Quote from pumuecils

I've successfully won starting with a meric. But it was a very difficult beginning to transform into a properly functioning one.

How????

Quote from FailingAtFailing

sword and archer start, when he gets a spearton, you might have a sword. 2 swords and an archer beats a spearton and will get the tower sooner which is an economy boost.

Spearton attacks swords, probably kills them both but will probably get finished by the archer. If it goes for the archer, it might get a hit or two in, but the kiting archer will continually deal damage and when the spear pauses to attack, the swords will also do some damage. Once the archer retreats into the castle, the spearton will be forced to attack either miners or swords, which will usually result in its death by the archer coming out. If it switches to attack the archer, bad move, archer goes right back into the castle and comes out once spear leaves.

Spearton start is kinda bad and unreliable. The only situation where I see it working is if the other person gets all miners, in which case you can rush his miners, or if he gets an archer and sword, but doesn't get another sword, and even then it could be kinda iffy since they can get another sword somewhat quickly once they see the spearton.

Speartons are faster than archers, so it's a bad idea kiting them.

Quote from DiamondFreak

Speartons are faster than archers, so it's a bad idea kiting them.

Are you suggesting that he leaves his archer to be killed by the Spearton?

Quote from DiamondFreak

Speartons are faster than archers, so it's a bad idea kiting them.

And? They are only a bit faster.....yes, spears can catch them up, but: When archers are kiting, they are gaining time, and also while surviving, they damage the spearton....so, kiting isnt a bad idea...

Quote from DiamondFreak

Speartons are faster than archers, so it's a bad idea kiting them.

wut? They're only slightly faster, if you kite well with the G button (heard this is going to be removed though, which makes me sad) the speartons will usually only be able to get one hit on an archer while they get like 5 in on the spearton. In a large group, archers will do insane amounts of damage despite the Spearton Armour. So they might kill 1 or 2 if they all gang up on one archer, HA, I kill like a spearton or two as well with kiting.

Due to the mass amount of damage a swarm of archers can do, I think it's better to get a giant to tank once the enemy exceeds maybe 6, maybe even 8 archers. I usually go for 12 archers if I plan on using them alot though, which still does a decent amount of damage to giants, and if I play it right, the archers out-range the giants too. Ah, archidonis, fairly OP unit I do say.

Quote from FailingAtFailing

the G button (heard this is going to be removed though, which makes me sad)

wait a minute...where do you got this? Wasnt it only a suggestion from Vectoroid?

Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

wait a minute...where do you got this? Wasnt it only a suggestion from Vectoroid?

I saw it being thrown around a week or two ago