Quote from 40fy

But this isn't a strategy page- its idealistic army compositions.

Well, but every army is depending on their strategies....

Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

Well, but every army is depending on their strategies....

I thought that this was all in theory and not realistic? Because if it isn't, than jli was right. Also, some people would be better micro-ing different units, therefore changing the ideal composition for them.

Quote from merich1

1. I'd have my Shinobi II Shadows in to assassinate your Magikill. No more spells for you.
2. I only get 1 Meric because I want that extra population.
3. I meant the same army as you, except 1 Meric instead of 3-4, 0 Archidons instead of 6, and enough Albows to fill out the rest of the population instead of 0. Guess that wasn't exactly made clear...
4. Spearton Wall is rendered useless with Magikill Wall. In fact, it actually works against you. I'd just cast Electric Wall, wait for you to move out of Spearton Wall, then charge.
5. I'm good with theorycraft, but terrible in the actual game, because my micro is seriously bad.

1. The Magikill would Electrify themselves. Shinobi would be hurt and start running. Speartons use Bash and Giants stun units. Shinobi are dead. Other Magikill is brought in and either forces you to lose much of your Albow's health+ with not as many merics, they can't recover fast...OR you are forced to run from the army to prevent causalities, therefore sacrificing Tower Spawn and giving up another Giant.
2. Maybe 3-4 is a bit overkill, but I would want a few in case they get assassinated/army begins to lose.
3. I think you're right on the Merics, but I still think that Archidons would be better that Albows. You can have more of them, they can kite far more effectively, and have time to move out of an oncoming electric wall without getting hurt. Also, in the event that it becomes a battle of ranged units, they simply hide behind speartons, making targeting them a flaw (flying over it you would lose too many units). Also, regardless of whether the skirmish is lost or won, they can either tear your albows to pieces by running forward with a meatshield of speartons or run away in the same sense.
4. What if they simply moved forward?/Shinobi got to them first?
5. Same here. XD Chaos made me lose about 200 rating before I started to learn how to micro decently.

Quote from ForgottenUser

I thought that this was all in theory and not realistic? Because if it isn't, than jli was right. Also, some people would be better micro-ing different units, therefore changing the ideal composition for them.



1. The Magikill would Electrify themselves. Shinobi would be hurt and start running. Speartons use Bash and Giants stun units. Shinobi are dead. Other Magikill is brought in and either forces you to lose much of your Albow's health+ with not as many merics, they can't recover fast...OR you are forced to run from the army to prevent causalities, therefore sacrificing Tower Spawn and giving up another Giant.
2. Maybe 3-4 is a bit overkill, but I would want a few in case they get assassinated/army begins to lose.
3. I think you're right on the Merics, but I still think that Archidons would be better that Albows. You can have more of them, they can kite far more effectively, and have time to move out of an oncoming electric wall without getting hurt. Also, in the event that it becomes a battle of ranged units, they simply hide behind speartons, making targeting them a flaw (flying over it you would lose too many units). Also, regardless of whether the skirmish is lost or won, they can either tear your albows to pieces by running forward with a meatshield of speartons or run away in the same sense.
4. What if they simply moved forward?/Shinobi got to them first?
5. Same here. XD Chaos made me lose about 200 rating before I started to learn how to micro decently.

1. Okay, Shadowraths dead. Yours are too. We lost the same amount. Charge in while your bash is on cooldown and kill all the Archers with my Speartons.
2. If I lose this battle, I'm screwed anyway. So... yeah.
3. The main flaw with Archidons is that Spears can hit Archidons and not Albows. Besides, who Electric Wall's Archers? Blast OHKOs them anyway.
4. Point taken, but out of Shield Wall you can't Shield Bash, and that's when I charge at your Archers.
5. Okay.

Quote from merich1

1. Okay, Shadowraths dead. Yours are too. We lost the same amount. Charge in while your bash is on cooldown and kill all the Archers with my Speartons.
2. If I lose this battle, I'm screwed anyway. So... yeah.
3. The main flaw with Archidons is that Spears can hit Archidons and not Albows. Besides, who Electric Wall's Archers? Blast OHKOs them anyway.
4. Point taken, but out of Shield Wall you can't Shield Bash, and that's when I charge at your Archers.
5. Okay.

1. Agreed. I can't argue that really.
2. I just mean that if it's roughly tied, you'd win due to healing and cure. Especially cure, since the Magikill from the opposite army would use poison spray to their advantage. If your singular Meric was to get assassinated, and i hit your albows, they are all almost guaranteed to die, as well as there being a huge advantage in the ongoing battle.
3. Your army would therefore lose it's shield. What's to now prevent my army from simply advancing and forcing you to hand over tower spawn/killing your albows and giants? Also, I could kite my archers back to the wall where the other Magikill are, and mess all your speartons up without losing much of anything. I suppose that's what I meant from the start.
4. Toggling Shield wall only takes half a second. I could easily shield bash them in time provided shield bash had not been used.

Quote from ForgottenUser

1. Agreed. I can't argue that really.
2. I just mean that if it's roughly tied, you'd win due to healing and cure. Especially cure, since the Magikill from the opposite army would use poison spray to their advantage. If your singular Meric was to get assassinated, and i hit your albows, they are all almost guaranteed to die, as well as there being a huge advantage in the ongoing battle.
3. Your army would therefore lose it's shield. What's to now prevent my army from simply advancing and forcing you to hand over tower spawn/killing your albows and giants? Also, I could kite my archers back to the wall where the other Magikill are, and mess all your speartons up without losing much of anything. I suppose that's what I meant from the start.
4. Toggling Shield wall only takes half a second. I could easily shield bash them in time provided shield bash had not been used.

1. Okay.
2. Actually, good point. But you have 2-3 Shadows, while I have 3 Magikill. (Unlike you, I'd have them all up front, although my last Magikill would trail the army and come in a small amount of time later.) If you're going to kill my Meric, that leaves one of my Magikill alive, unlike you, who has 3-4 Merics and no spellcasters. I firmly believe a Magikill is worth more than 3-4 Merics, at least in this situation.
3. Let's recap here: I've taken your 6 Archers out of the equation with my 5 Speartons. So with that removed we have 2 Giants v 2 Giants (equal) and a bunch of Albows vs 5 Speartons (easy win) and 3-4 Merics v 1 Magikill / 1 Meric. While yes, your Merics will help in the Giants vs Giants, you can't fix that Albows and Magikill combined do more damage than Spears can do and Merics can heal combined.
4. Okay.

Quote from merich1

1. Okay.
2. Actually, good point. But you have 2-3 Shadows, while I have 3 Magikill. (Unlike you, I'd have them all up front, although my last Magikill would trail the army and come in a small amount of time later.) If you're going to kill my Meric, that leaves one of my Magikill alive, unlike you, who has 3-4 Merics and no spellcasters. I firmly believe a Magikill is worth more than 3-4 Merics, at least in this situation.
3. Let's recap here: I've taken your 6 Archers out of the equation with my 5 Speartons. So with that removed we have 2 Giants v 2 Giants (equal) and a bunch of Albows vs 5 Speartons (easy win) and 3-4 Merics v 1 Magikill / 1 Meric. While yes, your Merics will help in the Giants vs Giants, you can't fix that Albows and Magikill combined do more damage than Spears can do and Merics can heal combined.
4. Okay.

2. When did I say I didn't have any Magikill? I already addressed that in a previous post. I had 4. 3 might die by shadowrath, but another will come later. Also, why shouldn't I simply use my remaining speartons that are still alive to kill your Magikill. 2 Giants + 7-8 Albows wouldn't be able to prevent it too well. Also, the magikill I had destroying your spears would come along. The merics would be able to keep the battle at least somewhat fair until then. Also the Archidons would be back minus a few.
3. How exactly? the whole point of them kiting behind the miner wall still stands as well as the Magikill ready to burn a hole in their armor.

Unless you have anything else to add, perhaps we should just test them and find out?

Yeah, we should. Except for the fact that... you know... my micro is horrendous? I probably wouldn't even be able to get my Shadows to assassinate correctly.

We should get some pros to do it for us.

Agreed. Any volunteers?

i think a good army should consist of a couple shadows and 2-3 mages
also include albows speartons, and also merics, 2 merics should do it